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Foxconn Announces Purchase of Belkin, Wemo, and Linksys (androidpolice.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the smart-home-battle dept.

Foxconn, the Taiwan-based company best-known for manufacturing Apple products announced that one of its subsidiaries (Foxconn Interconnect Technology) is purchasing U.S.-based Belkin for $866 million in cash. "Belkin owns a number of major brands, including Linksys and Wemo," notes Android Police. From the report: The buyout would make Foxconn a major player in consumer electronics, instead of just a contract manufacturing company. Belkin primarily sells phone/tablet accessories, but also manufactures networking equipment like routers and Wi-Fi range extenders. The company also sells a range of smart home products under the Wemo brand. According to The Financial Times, the purchase is subject to approval from the U.S. Committee on Foreign Investment. In other words, there is a very real chance the acquisition could be blocked. President Trump blocked Broadcom's acquisition of Qualcomm earlier this month, based on advice from the committee.

80 comments

  1. So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Whupdidodah!

    1. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taiwanese, buying American.

    2. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republic of China (aka Taiwan) is the one true real China. The ones on the mainland (government of PRC) are just interlopers who haven't been removed yet.

    3. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Formosa. Former British colony. Until 1999.

    4. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by jmccue · · Score: 1

      Formosa. Former British colony. Until 1999

      Another proud product of the US educational System, having no shame in showing their knowledge to the world.

    5. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're thinking of Hong Kong; Taiwan/Formosa's statehood is complex, but it's essentially been an autonomous nation since 1912. The key point here though is that the ROC is an entirely separate entity to the PRC on the mainland so it's not *quite* the same as the blocked Broadcom takeover of Qualcomm. Going to be interesting to see how Trump handles this given the whole "One China Policy" though; the RPC Chinese are already sensitive about the trade issues, so one mis-tweet could easily exacerbate the political situation further.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    6. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no nation on earth named “Taiwan”. No matter how you slice it, Taiwan is part of China.

    7. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " Former British colony. Until 1999."

      American education fail right there.

    8. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taiwan Number One!

    9. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buying an American middle man, maybe. Belkin assuredly contracts manufacturing in China.

    10. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're thinking of Hong Kong; Taiwan/Formosa's statehood is complex, but it's essentially been an autonomous nation since 1912

      Well, no, not really. It was autonomous until the Qing dynasty annexed it in the 19th century. It was ceded to Japan in 1895, who ruled it as a colony until 1945. It was then given to the then ruling government of China, the Republic of China (which was indeed founded in 1912 with the fall of the Qing). When the ROC was defeated by the communists in the Chinese Civil War in 1949, the ROC government fled to Taiwan where the communists couldn't get at them. For a long time, both the ROC and the communists claimed to be the legitimate government of all China and thus Taiwan was not classified as an independent nation; both sides agreed it was part of China. They just disagreed on who was the rightful rulers of China. Technically this is still the case, but in fact the ROC has not been terribly interested in claiming back China in decades. However, the communists react very violently to any suggestion that Taiwan establish itself as a independent country because they figure that as long as the argument is over who controls China they can't lose; Taiwan must eventually become theirs. Independence is a fight they could conceivably lose if they let the fight move to that ground.

    11. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Oops, the Qing actually annexed Formosa/Taiwan in 1683. Sorry about that.

    12. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      it's essentially been an autonomous nation since 1912.

      Wrong. Taiwan was occupied by Japan from 1895 until 1945.

      The key point here though is that the ROC is an entirely separate entity to the PRC

      Both the ROC and PRC accept that there is "one China" and that Taiwan is an integral part of China, and each officially claims to represent all of China. The main difference is that the PRC recognizes the independence of Mongolia, while the ROC does not.

    13. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dragon is going to eat that morsel eventually. Once they feel like their military might is strong enough, it is only a matter of time before Taiwan and Japan become theirs.

    14. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HK was up to 1997 only. Macau was up to 1999, but as a colony of some other nation. In other words, the GP mixed up both the dates and locations.

    15. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Yup...would be smart to block the sale.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    16. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Already heading toward WWIII, so what difference does it make?

      Axis Powers = China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, Palestine, and various other nations in Africa and South America.

      Allies Powers - America, Australia, Canada, UK, Europe, India, Israel, Saudi Arabia (tenuous at best), majority of the nations surrounding China in the Pacific. Yes, even throw in Mexico too.

      Russia is exceptionally pissed, and China is willing to play chicken in a trade war. Only a matter of time before it all goes kinetic IMHO.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    17. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very doubtful that China and Russia would be on the same side during a war. Those two countries have very strained at histories at best and nothing has been done to patch up the past in recent history.

    18. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/...

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    19. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by reanjr · · Score: 1

      And Israel is the one true nation of Jerusalem, I suppose? Do you think maybe history is relevant?

    20. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how this year what you called the Allies threatened to attack Syria if "Assad" used chemical weapons "again", and what was the Russian answer : high-level Russian official declared they uncovered plans for false flag chemical incidents in Eastern Ghouta, and later said that if Russian troops were put in danger they would intercept the (Tomahawk) missiles (I guess you can shoot down a fair few of them targetted at Damascus, but not very many) AND hit the source of these missiles i.e. a threat to sink US/NATO warships that are standing in the Mediterranean with hundreds of Tomahawks.

      Another example is when Israel attacked Syria (its largest attack in "self-defense") and was infuriated a F16 was shot down and threatened again to escalate with its neighbors. I got afraid and thought it was really the end, or the beginning of something e.g. I took the threat of Israel launching a big war against Lebanon way more seriously. But this fizzled out.

      Things like this have been going on for more than a decade. E.g. in 2007 the threats against Iran were getting severe (and I was wondering, would US vs Iran be the biggest war since WW2?)
      But in the end, it seems to be saber rattling so far and this could go on. Perhaps things on the ground will actually be improving, as Syria continues winning the war (more terrorists defeated, more tens of thousands people liberated, more refugees returning, more electricity and water). Except the US doubles down as usual : as bad as the manufactured "chemical murder" in UK is John Bolton becoming the official "national security" adviser to the president. This guy is an insanely dangerous propagandist who dedicates his life to provoking bigger and bigger uncalled-for wars, it's like having Goering at the White House.
      To top it off, as the US and vassals expell tons of Russian diplomats for spying (and expelling 12 Russians from the UN! like, the US can ban anyone from attending the UN because it's in New York?), the US State Department will be run by the CIA head (that'll teach them for those diplomats doing low-level intelligence as any nation does, right?)

      So : it all goes kinetic?
      Saber rattling again. Perhaps we should not be paralyzed by debilitating fear, because if we're kept in fear this helps the US.
      The US can't even attack North Korea, which would be WW3-lite. Loss of life wouldn't be the problem inasmuch as the US stocks markets crashing hard and sending the US into the gutter. The US can't even find a way to attack Syria the way they'd like to. So, there might be no WW3. But because of war propaganda and computers, the US, UK, EU/NATO seem to turn to neoliberal dictatorship.

    21. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't we ask the Taiwanese, rather than the others who wish to enslave them?? Just a thought.

    22. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      You know, I can't really get myself worked up over this whole "Russia bought Trump" nonsense. Especially when the Establishment has given us nothing but Bushes and Clintons for 20 years.

      Obama was an out-of the-blue manchurian candidate I don't think anyone expected.

    23. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      > The US can't even attack North Korea, which would be WW3-lite. Loss of life wouldn't be the problem

      Just an aside, the NorKs have enough artillery hidden in the mountains to burn Seoul to the ground, and we have very little in the way to stop it short of pre-emptively nuking them.

    24. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure thing Tiananmen Square Tank Man! Tell us all about it Poohbear..

    25. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a huge problem, but overblown according to some experts i.e. they can have a lot of artillery near Seoul but not all, and most is "short range" enough that it would blow up northern suburbs at most.
      They do have some real long range artillery and short range ballistic missiles though, so it still would be an unbelievable mess I think, perhaps mostly unheard of in living memory for a 1st world country barring WTC (and barring WW2 of course but now we have senile people born after WW2)

    26. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      When you think about it, the United States has a somewhat similar situation with Puerto Rico. The US government recognizes PR as a Commonwealth and part of the nation. The Puerto Rican government does acknowledge this, unlike Taiwan's government in relation to China. Some on the island want PR to become a full state; others desire independence. Right now, I think everyone on the island just wants electricity. At least Taiwan has that.

    27. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japan would anal rape China in an armed confrontation

    28. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vietnam numba 2.

      Changhai drift, fast and cheap. METER ON!!

    29. Re: So Chinese buying Chinese by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      Baja California is part of California, and Trump should invade.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    30. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      " Former British colony. Until 1999."

      American education fail right there.

      I don't know why the country with the worst grasp of geography and political history is in charge of running the world.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    31. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      I was just going to say: This is what touches off World War 3. Aside from that I think the US should lay claim to Taiwan in cooperation with Taiwan (behind the scenes) to put pressure on China and strengthen relations with Taiwan as a trade partner--as a hedge against China.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    32. Re:So Chinese buying Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Handle what? There is no national security issue here. Belkin makes crappy computer accessories and networking systems. They are not as bad as the Chinese crap flooding Amazon but it ain't exactly quality either.

  2. Control the network by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then all the devices belong to you anyways

    Nice.

  3. Is Trump going to make sure this deal gets blocked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    too?

    Because this is right up there with Broadcom buying Qualcomm, but at least in that case it would've been GCHQ, not Chinese intelligence with its fingers in the pie.

    Unless he refutes it, maybe my initial assumption that both China and Russia flipped both Trump and Clinton will turn out to have been true...

  4. Re: Is Trump going to make sure this deal gets blo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Taiwan is not China. The gear is made on the mainland, sure, but it is an entire functioning country of its own (with quite a negative opinion of the Peopleâ(TM)s Republic). Thereâ(TM)s not a hell of a lot of difference between a Taiwanese firm making kit in China than a South Korean firm or a Japanese firm, or even a US brand, contracting out their build to China.

  5. Re: Is Trump going to make sure this deal gets bl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Yeah but Donald doesn't know that. He probably thinks Taiwan is just some large city inside "Cheeiiina", where they speak the ching chang chong language and grow illegal covfefe. #muguah

  6. Foxconn, best known for its Apple products by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    Iit suicides are just collateral.

  7. FoxConn -- READ THIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1


    TRUMP is surrounded by BUFFOONS!  New Yorkers are idiots (Cohen and that fat ass running around the networks making all sorts of shit up)!  It's so fucking ridiculous.

  8. trump can just say must be made in the usa and WI by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0

    trump can just say must be made in the usa and then use that to win votes in WI

  9. Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by ickleberry · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Chinese are realising they don't need the Western middleman with the suit and tie, the slick haircut, the cheesy grin, the belly, the chauffeur, the glass of wine, the McMansion with his smooth talk about "going forward", "push the envelope", "move the goalposts" and "quid pro quo basis" in order to sell stuff to people living in the west.

    Time was when the said parasitic Western middleman thought he was clever by closing the factory doors back home and moving production to China, but in the long term he was only the architect of his own demise, playing into the hands of the Chinese all along.

    Unfortunately such is the scale of the problem of all these like-minded smooth-talking Western businessmen who have done absolutely f*ck all but attend meetings for since the late 1970s that the populations of the US of A, Ireland, UK and pretty much the rest of Europe and North America as well have become utterly inept at making basic provisions for everyday life and are completely dependent on the Chinese for simple things like 10k through-hole resistors, matches, cotton wool buds and have therefore set the stage to allow the Chinese to come into all these countries to buy their remaining successful businesses, natural resources and real estate just so the white middle-aged smooth talking businessmen with their talk about key performance indicators can sit and their arse and do nothing for another decade or so.

    1. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if it is really that kind of evil thing to do. China has developed more technologically in the last two decades more than it could have ever achieved by itself. I know it was not the goal of the greedy western people, but I see it as a big plus. The other option was to keep all production at home which would have made the power distribution of the globe much more uneven.
      We have seen the very same happening in Japan, Korea and it turned out fairly ok at the end. I know China is a bit different because of it's communist (commu-capitalist) regime, but still.
      So yes, we can whine we lost our cheap labour force, but let's try to see a broader view for once.

    2. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by gtall · · Score: 4, Funny

      Would you like to buy a period?

    3. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by ickleberry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      China can develop technologically all it wants but unfortunately they now have the means and the power to take over the rest of the world because of how dependent we have become on them. It's great for China but they'll end up milking the other countries dry as a result. They have already pilfered away lots of natural resources in Africa and Australia and I presume they'll be moving into other places soon.

      All because of the greed of the Western smiley businessman and the addiction to cheap disposable trinkets and electronic gadgets of the average consumer

    4. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If china had the same labor price and the same environmental requirements, what would happen ? The whole world knows about this and everybody is looking away.

    5. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by ickleberry · · Score: 2

      They feel quite alright turning their own country into a wasteland for money, they know they'll have the rest of the world to play with when they finish this game :)

    6. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Time was when the said parasitic Western middleman thought he was clever by closing the factory doors back home and moving production to China, but in the long term he was only the architect of his own demise, playing into the hands of the Chinese all along.

      I'm not sure I'd use the word clever or not, but from the point of view of lining their own pockets, well, Mission Accomplished.

      Capitalism optimizes around short term profit. Sure occasionally some brighter business people do focus on longer term goals, but then those people have to compete against those only interested in short term and you get this kind of self destructive behavior.

      Trump argues protectionism, but the issue was never that simple, nor is Trump remotely the correct spokesman. I'm not sure I see someone who would be. Tariffs should be limited to correcting for where the market cannot, such as environmental regulations or lack thereof, or possibly limited human rights penalties, for those without reasonable working conditions. Done without thought is worse than not done at all. Done with exceptions is also pointless. Tariffs like that can help in the edges.

      Somehow replacing business "leaders" with actual patriots would help a lot more, but how do you do that? The flag waving right wing group preaches patriotism and selfishness together, as if the two were in some sort of unholy matrimony.

      The left generally doesn't talk about patriotism much at all, and maybe that is a mistake?

    7. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe the hole world should calculate taxes like this: exporting country doesn't care about environment +7%, exporting country doesn't have pension system +5%, exporting country has human rights problem +5%, no health system +6% and so on

    8. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't worry. Once enough people are starving we will get competitive labor prices too.

    9. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody in the west wants to make 10k through-hole resistors, matches and cotton wool buds. At the most we would have machines doing it for us.

    10. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wtf does this have to do with the topic. Nobody cares about your nationalistic fan fiction

    11. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      It takes about three years to build a supply chain for some of this stuff. Short of a shooting war, this "dominance" is reversible. Someday price parity will be reached, and it will make sense to make shit here again.

    12. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the hole world should calculate taxes like this: exporting country doesn't care about environment +7%, exporting country doesn't have pension system +5%, exporting country has human rights problem +5%, no health system +6% and so on

      The Trump USA would be in a world of hurt.

    13. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get this tankie shit out of here.

    14. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is called tariffs. NO MORE IRS PARASITES!

    15. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by See+Attached · · Score: 1

      Being predictable can be a vulnerability. Being able to promise some short term wins is enough to reward the Super Genius with a new ford Escort, while the technology he pushes away kills jobs and disables our work force from doing that job. Not like tool and dia makers go to CNC work (where you modernize a capability), but where you make ALL the TV sets ( and everything that goes into them) to a remote location. Too often US workers are asked to do paltry work, while the focus is to glorify and reward off shore people. Win for Offshore, but the idea that US mid/upper level staffers push that work away will shortly make their jobs irrelevant too. Hah. US workers are well on their way to be the Copper Tops as seen in the matrix. Thanks visionaries. Now ChX buys all the means to produce a cell phone, floods market with an Android spin off and Voila, Apple is a core.

      --
      Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
    16. Re:Parasitic Western middleman goes obsolete by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      No thanks, my wife provides more than I would ever need or want.

  10. Clinton would've approved it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those millions China gave to the Clinton Foundation to help get her elected would have paid off big time with this and the Broadcom acquisitions.

  11. Cisco owns linksys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are they even selling it? Why?

    1. Re:Cisco owns linksys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who wants wifi when 5G will do everything, costs way more and provides more revenue?

    2. Re:Cisco owns linksys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WiFi = free, 5G = subscription, also different use cases

    3. Re:Cisco owns linksys by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      2013 called, they want their Belkin purchase of Linksys back.

  12. Chinese weak IP laws let them copy our stuff and t by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Chinese weak IP laws let them copy our stuff and there owner ship rules make it so that they own 51% of your ideas when you turn to them for cheap labor

  13. Linksys is Cisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Belkin Linksys was another product as evidently they kept some rights to the name after they sold Linksys to Cisco.

    No Foxconn did not buy Cisco.

    1. Re:Linksys is Cisco by laie_techie · · Score: 1

      The Belkin Linksys was another product as evidently they kept some rights to the name after they sold Linksys to Cisco.

      No Foxconn did not buy Cisco.

      I think you have that backwards. Belkin bought Linksys from Cisco in 2013.

    2. Re:Linksys is Cisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is why posting as AC is useful. I can post without facts getting in my way.

    3. Re:Linksys is Cisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As is tradition

  14. mod 0p by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    goals I peRsonalDly

  15. Re: Is Trump going to make sure this deal gets bl by jabuzz · · Score: 1

    Are you sure. No supporter of the Trump but he does seem to know what Taiwan is. It's not two weeks since he signed the US-Taiwan travel bill. Then there is the whole Trump-Tsai call and random threats to recognize Taiwan as a separate entity.

  16. Re:Chinese weak IP laws let them copy our stuff an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is the fact that they can threaten foreign businesspeople on their soil with 20+ years in a Chinese prison for bogus charges until they sign their business's rights away to the local Chinese firm (which has to have 51% control, and where the Chinese government is part of the company board.)

    Imagine if the US demanded someone from the CIA, ICE, or DHS be at every company meeting for every local firm. That's what it is like in China.

  17. Trump will allow it by reanjr · · Score: 1

    It would be completely irresponsible to let this sale go through. Sounds just like something the Trump administration will support.

  18. Re: Is Trump going to make sure this deal gets bl by ckaminski · · Score: 1

    Trump is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

    I trust him about as much as I trust Hillary, which is not at all, but neither was or is stupid.

  19. Brilliant move by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

    Now Foxconn can make $2 USB cables, put them in Belkin boxes that claim that they're "low distortion", and sell them for $50 each. They'll pocket $48 in pure profit.

  20. This was inevitable by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 1

    This was inevitable. Technology firms outsource their manufacturing to CheapChinese(tm) fabs like Foxconn, who then gleefully steal their customers' IP and use it in knockoff products. Now with all the money in their hands, they simply buy out the middle man. Now they *are* the companies whose IP they stole. Belkin, Wemo, and Linksys might as well be Huawei.

    --
    Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
  21. Re:Chinese weak IP laws let them copy our stuff an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    America has never followed international laws when it didn't suit them, yet Americans appear to expect other nations to follow their retarded domestic laws.

  22. makes sense by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    You ever notice that really crappy companies that make garbage quality products always merge and buy each other? Atheros, Marvel, AOL, Foxconn, Belkin, Linksys, etc.

  23. Re: Is Trump going to make sure this deal gets bl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

    Smart is also not one of them.

  24. only one mis-tweet? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    so one mis-tweet could easily exacerbate the political situation further.

    I'm going to throw in the towel now then.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  25. Re:Chinese weak IP laws let them copy our stuff an by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    It's called American Exceptionalism. Look it up. Even if you don't believe in it, many Americans behave as if they do believe in it. And belief can have a real impact on the world.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  26. great... by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

    crappy bug laden products are now going to be even crappier bug laden products.