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The Scientific Paper Is Obsolete (theatlantic.com)

James Somers, writing for The Atlantic: The scientific paper -- the actual form of it -- was one of the enabling inventions of modernity. Before it was developed in the 1600s, results were communicated privately in letters, ephemerally in lectures, or all at once in books. There was no public forum for incremental advances. By making room for reports of single experiments or minor technical advances, journals made the chaos of science accretive. Scientists from that point forward became like the social insects: They made their progress steadily, as a buzzing mass.

The earliest papers were in some ways more readable than papers are today. They were less specialized, more direct, shorter, and far less formal. Calculus had only just been invented. Entire data sets could fit in a table on a single page. What little "computation" contributed to the results was done by hand and could be verified in the same way.

The more sophisticated science becomes, the harder it is to communicate results. Papers today are longer than ever and full of jargon and symbols. They depend on chains of computer programs that generate data, and clean up data, and plot data, and run statistical models on data. These programs tend to be both so sloppily written and so central to the results that it's contributed to a replication crisis, or put another way, a failure of the paper to perform its most basic task: to report what you've actually discovered, clearly enough that someone else can discover it for themselves.

152 comments

  1. Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We are now in an era where only very few people actually need to know how reality works. The rest of us can become brand managers and youtube content creators.

    1. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      when was it otherwise?

    2. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Arguably, the handful of decades somewhere between WWII and the 1990s.

    3. Re:Science is obsolete by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      We are now in an era where only very few people actually need to know how reality works. The rest of us can become brand managers and youtube content creators.

      That way lies Superstition and belief in "Magic" ! 8-}

    4. Re: Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/12/13/the-truth-wears-off
      Great article discussing the consequences of subconscious bias warping a large portion of published data

    5. Re:Science is obsolete by GuB-42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      More seriously, we are in a world where very few people can understand how reality works.

      Anyone with a high school level of scientific background can understand Newtonian mechanics, most people have trouble with special relativity but with the right mindset, it is not that hard. General relativity and quantum mechanics pretty much require years of specialized studies, and these are what form the basis of reality as we know it today. Mastery in these fields are a requirement in order to go further.
      As for our understanding of nature, we know the physics of throwing rocks very well, no need to do more research about that. The unsolved problems involve crazy accurate measurements, scales that are well beyond human, or complicated interactions.

    6. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in some cases, the facts were created from blowing smoke up the our collective bums.

    7. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Since "we" still do not know "how reality works", "

      Get back to me when the cheap energy runs out and food no longer comes in a magically cold box in your kitchen.

      Then we'll see how much 'reality' we knew...

    8. Re:Science is obsolete by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Machiavelli once stated, "the masses are ignorant." Sadly, we still are.

    9. Re:Science is obsolete by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Dark matter kind of throws our rock chucking equations into the crapper for large scale and big rocks

    10. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For sure two centuries or more back, when you either grew your own food, or starved.

    11. Re:Science is obsolete by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Machiavelli once stated, "the masses are ignorant." Sadly, we still are.

      Who cares what some ancient old Italian race-car driver dude said? Ain't he dead? /s

      Strat :)

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    12. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WWII was made possible mostly by branding, marketing and propaganda.
      So was many other wars in the centuries before that.

      Heck, there is a reason Iceland and Greenland are named as they are and is all about brand management.
      That is before we got to the point where America was branded as the promised land and settlers were lured into a life of hardship.

    13. Re:Science is obsolete by Sique · · Score: 1

      The time when you grew your own food or starved ended somewhen around 12,000 BC when the first differenced societies appeared. Since the advent of trade and towns, more and more people are no longer fully autarkic or self-sustained, but rely on others to provide addtional goods which then are traded.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    14. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes, science is obsolete for an increasing number of people. Not because they don't need science anymore, but because science doesn't satisfy them anymore. Science is SO removed from what most people can understand and SO specialized that we have arrived at the point where to more and more people it's no longer something they can understand, but it's something they have to believe.

      And if they have to believe anyway, why not believe something that's easier to understand and more comforting?

      And this is where religion, conspiracy theories and "alternative" reality models come into play. And why they're getting increasingly popular.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What he didn't state and probably didn't realize is that they apparently WANT to be ignorant. Never before in the history of mankind it has been easier to acquire information and wisdom. And never before in the history of mankind have people been more willfully ignorant.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And most likely we just don't know something yet. Like we did a century ago when we noticed that Mercury doesn't move around the Sun as it should. Back then we thought that some other object must be responsible and were looking for it. Today we know that relativity is the culprit.

      I dare say we'll find something similar explaining what we now think is "dark matter/energy".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re:Science is obsolete by plannedobsolescence · · Score: 0

      Let's see if science is obsolete.

      Title: Methodologies for carbon capture and CO2 reduction within national domains and marine environments.

      Part I - Generator in a Greenhouse (GENGH)

      A methodology for producing stable sustainable electrical power into
      the future. Move the CO2 from the smokestack/tailpipe to the greenhouse. Tricky,
      I know. Clarkson tried and failed.

      At the time of writing there are no viable large scale CCS or carbon capture storage
      schemes anywhere on the planet. Well there is a serious proposal now.

      It is envisaged there will be set of greenhouses (1km sq each) which each hold generators with a
      base loading of 4 mega watt operating 24hours-365days. These might reach to 8 meg per sq km
      eventually. Is the capital cost/return better than PV or windmills? Yes. This process also
      will extract more energy per sq meter than PV or windmills? Yes. It will be of a lower cost.
      Yes, after all its only glass, not those expensive photovoltaics. A gas tight greenhouse
      should be a much cheaper to build.

      In a greenhouse that is gas tight CO2, H20, water and heat are trapped
      within its confines. It is an artificial environment that naturally
      encourages plants to do their thing. This technique is ideal for desert
      regions because of the water control element. Brownfields, contaminated
      sites could be cleansed, with the correct ash cleaning, etc. These can be wandering
      structures. You could greenify a desert or clean a site of toxins.

      Temperature control - fundamental. (HEP)
      The first level of thermal control is insulation. Prevent heat escaping until
      you want it to escape or be stored in the ground.
      A set of heat exchange pipeworks (HEP) are placed into the ground.
      In cooling mode (summer) these carry warm/hot water to store the heat into the colder ground.
      In heating mode (winter) these carry cold water to extract the stored heat.
      So cooling at daily highs and warming at nightly lows is possible. And 1 km of ground
      and water provides a lot of thermal reserve. Extra cooling facilities maybe needed.

      The nature or type of HEP used depends if it is a permanent installation or not.
      The ability and type of cooling engaged depends on the GH's location. Heat transmission
      pipes can be placed permanently underground or not. This can be done in phases.
      These pipes need to coupled with heat exchange units. These are fridges or heatpumps to you and me
      that use gasses trapped in pipes to move heat energy about. Change/reverse the action of the fridge
      when you need to heat or cool the GH.

      Speed of growth - You can almost see it grow.
      This is a description given to some plants seen in warm jungle conditions.
      Each GH should be producing the correct amount of greenery or more (redundancy/contingency)
      to soak up its daily CO2 load for national grid needs. With luck you really could see them grow,
      as the CO2 level will be higher than any open air jungle.

      No precondition on the plant type, apart from avoiding genetically modified plants.
      Since most plants will have not experienced a environment like this,
      we do not know which will respond well. All manner of variations will need to be tested.

      One of the GENGH sub functions will be as plant nursery. That provides a
      stream of maturing plants to replace those just harvested. It just an efficient use of space, iinit.

      Photosynthetic efficiency (dark versus light reactions)
      This is not a completely answered question. There is some real science to be done.

      The photosynthetic process has a light driven reaction and a dark or thermally driven
      reaction. If a plant is above a critical temperature (9c?) it will photosynthesise.
      If it is below it, it won't. No matter how much water CO2 and light you give it.
      The exact energy contribution of each reaction mode is not known.

      Light (daylight) is not the usually limiting factor to plant growth,
      but warmth, water, CO2 and nutrients are. If you increase the warmth an

    18. Re:Science is obsolete by tigersha · · Score: 1

      So are Chilli Peppers. The were originally from South America but to market them in Europe the Spanish traders called them "Peppers from Chile" cause europeans knew what pepper was and it was valuable.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    19. Re: Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thinking that things would be better if people studied "reality" is a special kind of wishful thinking. At the end of the day quantum mechanics can't tell me how to be a good person.

    20. Re:Science is obsolete by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      That is why there is a profession of a scientist, and these people are even specialized in different areas.
      There job is to follow the Scientific process to help understand and document how things work.
      Now with a new found understanding of things, it gives more options for professions such as engineers. To help create better products, know where tolerance limits are, be able to create new materials. Based on a widening set of options to pick from. It also can be used by policy makers, to to help identify resource scarcity, understanding the effect of current polity and remeasure a response.
      Then we get to the brand managers whose job is to explain the newly engineered products and policies as an improvement over the previous ones. And finally we have the consumers who collect what is being offered.

      Not all science will become a product, or a policy. Knowing that there a multiple black holes in the center of the galaxy, will not help become productized. But it could spark tangential science, which may become productized. Just like the initial research in the property of the Atom. We have a lot of products that use the property of the items before, we just didn't know why it did what it did. Then it sparked research into nuclear, and also it sparked interest into Quantum Science. Which we today use many of the principals in our nano-meter electronics.

      Every new discovery is a tool in the shed, you may never use it, but it is there if you need it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    21. Re:Science is obsolete by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So you look at 50 years of advancements and we go (often during a time frame which you didn't reley on the old ways of doing things) Wow, Science was really expanding, Nuclear Power (New way to boil water that we have been doing for thousands of years), Space Craft (Those hundred year old rockets, were finally upscale), Computers! (The hundred year old adding machine and typewriter, got improvements.)
      Then you compare it to Today's advancements, Smart Phones, Quantum computing, Genetics.... Where we are comparing 30 years vs 50 years, and being that we are living the improvements, seeing the science that never panned out, and finding the changes to just be improvements on older designs. Where a lot of the failures before you were around to notice them, just kinda fell out of historical memory. They were a lot of sham ideas, and failures, "DDT is good for you and good for me".

      Science has been flawed and questioned during WWII - 1900s too. it is just you didn't live it.

      Heck, our ISP was out a few weeks, ago so we could only use our cell phones for internet access. (which we have 2 bars) so it was like living in the early 2000's with internet speeds under 1mbs. Too slow for streaming video. And we had to watch TV and work with programs installed on our devices. We have gotten a lot of changes, we just don't realize it until it is taken away.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    22. Re:Science is obsolete by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      What he didn't state and probably didn't realize is that they apparently WANT to be ignorant. Never before in the history of mankind it has been easier to acquire information and wisdom. And never before in the history of mankind have people been more willfully ignorant.

      Not so much, actually. They usually have their own area of expertise and have little interest in your's. Which is good because they get to hire you, if they need that.

      Even digging a ditch requires expertise. Do it without knowledge and you will have much pain and maybe broken bones.

      Often, when you hear people say this, it is because others have disagreed with them. Disagreement is different from stupid. 8-)

    23. Re:Science is obsolete by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      even the searches for dark horse candidates for dark matter are coming up empty. and the Higg's boson is *dangerously* light. and our two best models of reality can't be reconciled at all.

      we don't know how the fundamental things work yet

    24. Re:Science is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point? Facts and books are obsolete as well.

    25. Re:Science is obsolete by mschaffer · · Score: 1

      Exactly. That's why facts were often published in books. Their thin pages make it easy to create smoke.

    26. Re:Science is obsolete by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Is this available in book form? Your post is insanely long.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    27. Re:Science is obsolete by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      When Saturn didn't move like we expected it to, the result was Uranus. When that didn't move as expected, we found Neptune.

      The orbital mechanics of Mercury are a single thing, originally explained by the hypothetical planet Vulcan and then Special Relativity. Dark Matter explains several different things, including galactic rotation and gravitational lensing.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    28. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yup. It just takes another Einstein, then we're gonna make another leap forwards.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    29. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      One thing, many things... in the end, it could well again have one single reason, or even many different ones. Maybe us looking for a single reason is the fault here. I don't know. I'm just certain that we'll get answers eventually. Maybe I'll even be still around when it happens.

      We're living in times when our knowledge and understanding is jumping ahead at a pace unmatched by history. What you learned in school about the universe is most likely obsolete by now. And yes, that's scary to many people because they want to have certainty, and certainty is unfortunately unavailable in natural science.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    30. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      This isn't what I mean. What I mean is people chasing fairy tales and coming up with harebrained ideas about how the universe works to make their little fairy tale land "work". I'm not talking about someone not wanting to know everything. Nobody knows everything. I'm talking about people willfully and deliberately believing nonsense for the sake of not being "mainstream".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    31. Re:Science is obsolete by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Sadly, Machiavelli's statement is not based on the importance on your perception or understandings; but that informing you is wasted energy, and that it is OK. Machiavelli's narrative is for a leader, not the rank and file folks.

    32. Re:Science is obsolete by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      the "lone wolf" type is discouraged these days. True in science, true in the corporation. And probably 99.9% of the time that's a good and proper thing, most good really is accomplished with teams and collaboration. I have a feeling though that a more useful model of reality will come from a lone wolf though

    33. Re:Science is obsolete by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      When you have one fairly simple hypothesis that explains many different discrepancies, it's fairly likely to be correct. Looking for single reasons is one of the things science does. We had Kepler's laws that accurately described orbital motion and we noticed that things fall when they drop them, and Newton unified those into a law of gravity.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:Science is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I don't say that this one person has to work alone. Maybe he just needs to be the one showing the direction.

      In the end, it doesn't matter as long as we eventually solve the problem.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    35. Re:Science is obsolete by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      This isn't what I mean. What I mean is people chasing fairy tales and coming up with harebrained ideas about how the universe works to make their little fairy tale land "work". I'm not talking about someone not wanting to know everything. Nobody knows everything. I'm talking about people willfully and deliberately believing nonsense for the sake of not being "mainstream".

      Well, maybe they like being that way. Or, maybe they are "trolling" you. Or maybe you don't actually know what is a fairy tale and what is not? 8-)

    36. Re:Science is obsolete by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      Sadly, Machiavelli's statement is not based on the importance on your perception or understandings; but that informing you is wasted energy, and that it is OK. Machiavelli's narrative is for a leader, not the rank and file folks.

      His book "The Prince" was made for leaders, and that is where the quote comes from, I think. But it does not mean that was what he believed himself. He wrote other books and papers for other people, and they sounded different. These days we would probably call him a "Political Consultant".

  2. In China... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    In China, it sure seems to be.

  3. trash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is more bullshit. blah blah scientists suck blah blah blah. Tripe.

  4. Progress or Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    When there's no justification for not publishing papers online for free, they're suddenly "obsolete". Funny that isn't it?

    1. Re:Progress or Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When there's no justification for not publishing papers online for free, they're suddenly "obsolete". Funny that isn't it?

      Well said!

      Also, the word "Obsolete" implies that something has been created that is better than this "Publishing of Papers". Beyond that it seems to be a cleverly disguised commercial for Wolfram Alpha.

    2. Re: Progress or Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Youtube, of course!

  5. Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And it isn't our fault your parents raised you to be insufferable little know-nothing shits. If you are offended, talk to them.

    1. Re:Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tried to pick up some women at a bar last night and got rejected again?

      Maybe stick to your own age group, gramps. Lose the cane at least.

    2. Re:Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear last year's model,
      You came up with planned obsolescence. It's a real shame it can be applied retroactively. Also, denial is a really ugly look. It suits you.

      Sincerely,
      This year's model

    3. Re:Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah, who wants old ladies? Lolis are the best.

    4. Re:Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creimer doesn't use a cane, he eats them.

    5. Re: Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fucked yermom, yersister and if you manage to breed, I'll fuck yerdaughter when she's barely legal, too.

      Keep on, keeping on, millennial.

      -- Old guy who digs how easy millennial girls are

    6. Re: Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Earth girls are easy.

    7. Re: Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prime material girls are easy.

    8. Re:Millennials are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear this year's model,

      You don't think ahead very much. You're already obsolete.

      Yours,
      Next year's model.

  6. Bull. Shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That you can flood a scientific paper with reams of computer generated data is NOT science. That's technobabble. The point of the scientific paper is to lay down, ON PAPER, the technique you used and what you observed and then, in a separate section, editorializing what you've proven (or refuted).

    That so-called scientific papers will merely dump the computer generated data or flood the paper with technical jargon without exposing the underlying algorithm or technique IS the problem.

    At one time science was intended for the masses - that the Atlantic attributes this to "a simpler time" is also moronic as it was the intent of the authors, in fact all authors of the time, to write clearly and succinctly so that anyone could understand their work. You see that not only in the scientific papers of the time but also in the laws (the US Constitution). You also see the same problem in laws today where laws are now tends of thousands of pages long. How is any one person (let alone a dedicated group) supposed to understand the law as written?

    To wit - it's a societal problem, not a scientific one or a problem with "overcomplex science"

    1. Re: Bull. Shit. by javaman235 · · Score: 1

      Good point, but there is a uniquely scientific dimension to things no longer being targeted to the masses. It all started with the a-bomb, and science moved from source of cute inventions to human destiny shaping. Now it's so tied with national security, I wonder what fundamental breakthroughs may have happened deemed too dangerous to be publically known. How would we know?

      --
      -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
  7. Most articles are even crap when there isnt comple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Iâ(TM)ve worked with one dork who wrote a paper a month because it was a 2k bonus and after working with him briefly i found out he was basically was a historian. He just used other papers as a reference and did no actual study or research. I cancelled my IEEE subscription that year, he made it sound like that was the norm.

  8. Obsolete? No, at least not yet. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The scientific paper will last as long as paper-printing does. It's still very convenient.

    That being said, TFA does make a good point about how current technology can do better than paper. If designed well, an interactive document with computer-driven content can convey a deeper and clearer message.

    Better still, perhaps an AI embedded within the document could answer questions about it.

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    1. Re:Obsolete? No, at least not yet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better still, perhaps an AI embedded within the document could answer questions about it.

      Or, I don't know, the guy could create a git repot and manage all the code there, including all details about other hardware, sourcing, etc, so things would be repeatable.

      The data can be stored online as well, though I'm not sure if Git is the best way there...

      Either way, if we want traceability, the tech isn't the problem. The paper can be stored in GIT as well..

    2. Re:Obsolete? No, at least not yet. by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Not sure, but I think that's what ClickOnThis was saying.
      At any rate, the notion of making the data + code freely available is exactly what the recent reproducible research mantra is. (The notion of reproducible research has of course been around a long time, but it's only recently--the last decade or two--that making data + code + analysis all available on-line has been feasible.)

    3. Re:Obsolete? No, at least not yet. by gtall · · Score: 1

      Errrm...most "papers" these days are never printed. We call them, get this, Documents. And who among us has the time to mechanize a document with computer-driven content, and to what end. And poking in computer driven content does not automatically make for a deeper and clearer message, it isn't magic pixie dust. Difficult concepts and methods are difficult, hence the appellation, "difficult". Sure, let's embed AI into a document. We only need make for sentient AI to understand the document, its context (few documents stand in isolation), and its implications. I have some instructions around here for Deep Thought, I'll get back to you when I find them.

    4. Re:Obsolete? No, at least not yet. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      As as non-scientist, I'm not real comfortable with this. If you run the provided code with the provided data set, presumably you'll get the provided results. That isn't replication or reproduction in any useful sense.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re:Obsolete? No, at least not yet. by mcswell · · Score: 1

      You're right that it doesn't prove much, except: 1) that the data set is complete, and 2) that the provided code is really what was used to produce the claimed results, without anyone's thumb on the scale.

      You might think that this would be obvious; I'm told it's not. Indeed, I know that I have (unintentionally!) delivered code to a customer that was incomplete, and in some cases it's unclear when a set of code is truly complete. How far down the list of dependencies should you go? Clearly you don't want to include Linux itself, or grep or sed... Docker provides one answer to this, but it is (IMO) rather clumsy. There's also the issue of version numbers.

      Maybe there should be a distinct term for this, like validation. But it's not as easy and straightforward as it appears. And IMO it's a pre-requisite to someone writing different software to run over the same data, much less using a different dataset.

  9. What by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not sure what is going on here, except that the summary reads like clickbait.

    The rule of thumb I was taught was that you write your papers with the assumption that your reader's got only a basic background in the field. We're talking 'has completed a minor in the field' levels at most, typically--you fill in the holes necessary to understand the paper itself in the introduction. At least in the fields I was in, nearly anything that made it into a significant journal--meaning, anything worth even reading the abstract--would be using one of a set of programs for the number crunching, and at least some of the options were open source. Unless there were privacy concerns, you generally could get a copy of the data sets with a few emails if you wanted to shove 'em through a different one of the standard number-cruching programs--privacy concerns just add a few extra hoops. Regardless of that, somebody should have the raw data and it should be in electronic form. You should typically know before you even start the email conversation if there ought to be privacy concerns; if they claim there are when there shouldn't be, or that they somehow don't have the data still, that's a red flag, especially if you're being very interested in learning more about their research and not in the least bit hostile, because researchers are normally very happy to talk about their work as much as they're able to. (It's a great way to keep one happily chattering away for a while, too.)

    If you can't understand the jargon and symbols, and you're got a reasonably good background in the field...Google-fu will help some, but generally it's a sign that you've found a journal to dump papers to when you're in a publish-or-perish situation, and the number of papers published matters more than if any of them are of any quality whatsoever.

    The scientific paper isn't obsolete. How publication works and academia's relationship to it, however...

    1. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure what is going on here, except that the summary reads like clickbait.

      Well the article seems to devolve into a Mathmatica ad with a small measure of reality check.

    2. Re:What by Known+Nutter · · Score: 0

      With grammar that atrocious, it is difficult to take your assessment of the scientific paper seriously.

      Sorry.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    3. Re:What by blind+biker · · Score: 2

      The rule of thumb I was taught was that you write your papers with the assumption that your reader's got only a basic background in the field.

      That is entirely incorrect. Absolutely no researcher writes papers that way, and they never have. When writing a scientific article (not a pop sci piece) the reader is assumed to be familiar with the specific field in which the journal deals.

      This goes so far as to compel a referee/reviewer from recusing him/herself from reviewing an article they feel insufficiently competent for. And if, at rare occasions, some junior researcher (usually from China) decides to referee a manuscript they aren't qualified for, they soon enough receive a reply from the authors along the lines of "this is basic material in the field XYZ, and as such should be placed in a textbook and not in a journal article."

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    4. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As you have no idea if the GP is a native english writer or not, it is difficult to take your assessment of his opinion as either the view of a shortsighted poster or an asshole.

      Sorry.

  10. Answer is: publish source code with paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If programs are central to the evaluation of a paper then programs need to be published alongside the paper - in source code form.

    It doesn't matter if the source code is published with Apache, BSD, GPL, MIT or no license at all (remains copyright to the authors.)

    What matters is that the source code is available to review alongside the paper. In this, it isn't performance that is critical, but bugs that influence results, be they buffer overflows or simply logic errors.

    A group of people separate to those that do the peer review of papers then needs to review the source code for correctness as to the results it produces.

    1. Re:Answer is: publish source code with paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least in my field most papers do publish source code. Typically on github, sometimes through supplementary material, or (increasingly rarely) on the author's personal webpage. Failing that a few quick emails will often get you what you're looking for.

      That said it's of variable value. Often the code is a sprawling "I started writing this in when I got my PhD in the 70s and it's been accumulating ever since" undocumented mess that might be handy for comparative experiments but is less than helpful when trying to find implementation details, and poor portability and bad (non-existent or misleading) documentation are common.

    2. Re:Answer is: publish source code with paper by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Answer is: publish source code with paper

      Some journals already require this. Nature Methods, for example requires papers which for example publish a new algorithm to publish the code.

      Some code is well published: apparently the researchers (or more likely a group postdoc) had a real calling as a software Engineer and they ensure the code is portable and have irregular releases after to combat bitrot and make sure the code continues to run on reasonably modern systems. Most of the other code...

      Remember the bad old days, before version control was common, when VMs were not a thing outside of IBM, computers were expensice and so every one had an utterly unique configuration and so on and so forth. Remember what a pain it was moving a bit of code from one machine to another?

      Acacemia is often like that (there is literally 0 money for software engineers) combined with people who are (a) not professional programmers (they do what they need to solve the task, but they're physicists or biologists or chemists etc), (b) have no software engineering experience and (c) have absolutely zero time budget allocated. I'm not criticising academia here, it's just that releasing maintained software is not within the skillset nor the remit of academia.

      So yeah the code released...

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:Answer is: publish source code with paper by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The scientific method is all about publishing your methods, so that others can check and duplicate your work. What's worse, "scientists" who use closed software cannot even know what they're doing in their own lab. That's worse than a math exam answer with just the result and "I did it on a calculator".

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:Answer is: publish source code with paper by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I've seen code written by physicists. It's not pretty.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  11. Missing the point by cowtamer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of the main points of a scientific paper is that it's peer reviewed.

    A decent paper will probably take around 2 hours to read and 2-12 months to write. As inefficient as this is, it has some desirable properties:

    1) It presents information in a somewhat standardized format. After all the gimmicky digital notebooks etc turn to dust and the software which runs them becomes obsolete, the articles will remain.

    2) It provides references and allows you to use itself as a starting point to discover more about the subject and the claims.

    3) It generally represents an incremental advancement in the field.

    Aside from the fact that the article is essentially a Mathematica ad, it is somewhat clear that the author has it written any scientific papers

    1. Re:Missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. And even though I often read/cite arXiv papers (due to lag in other forms of publication) I also have a feel for the reputation of the authors (and hence how much I trust their papers), and that only comes through repeated publication of papers that can pass peer-review in reputable journals and conferences.

    2. Re:Missing the point by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Re the notebooks turning to dust: in some fields, it almost doesn't matter that this happens. I'm guessing that high energy physics is one of those fields; who wants/ needs to re-run a cyclotron experiment from the 1950s? But the other part of this--software becoming obsolete--is a much shorter time period, and I suspect a lot of fields get caught in that.

      For some fields, both things matter. I'm a linguist, and a grammar + dictionary of some indigenous language written in the 1940s is just as important today as it was the day it was written--much more so, if the language has become extinct, as many have. In fact I was just in a conversation last week with another linguist about converting old dictionaries into XML. Image PDFs are of course the worst, but even text-based PDFs make it hard to extract the conceptual structure of the dictionary (as opposed to its layout, e.g. in two columns on pages, which is relatively easy to extract).

    3. Re:Missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In social "sciences" peer review is just gate-keeping behaviour around favoured paradigms. The same in Climate Science. The only place I trust it's working as intended is in experimental physics, where standards have been maintained.

    4. Re: Missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha! A math paper takes 2 hours to read, says the layperson. More like 2 weeks to a year - if you are an expert in the field.

    5. Re:Missing the point by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I've found the longer the paper takes to read generally means the less worthwhile the paper is. I've read some papers in fields I'm familiar with, and when I get done I still don't know WTF they're talking about. So I start breaking it down, slashing through all the jargon and word soup, working through the math myself, and finally when I understand what they're actually saying.... I realize they really don't have much. A bunch of dense language, big words, and technical terms thrown about with some fancy-looking charts and it all looks very impressive, but in reality what they've done is pretty minor and not that novel. They know it too, and know it's not good for a multi-page paper, hence a massive amount of filler - most of which is just reiterating basic things that everyone already knows once you've managed to hack through it.

      On the other side, go pick up one of the famous, ground-breaking papers in the field that everyone knows about and cites. In comparison, you'll find those papers easy to read - they are clearly written, using simple language, and easy to follow and understand (maybe longer to digest though). There's really no reason to have to dress it all up, as the science stands on its own.

  12. Citation needed. by gentryx · · Score: 1

    See subject.

    --
    Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
  13. It's not like by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    there are thousands of AI bots, spamming the Internet with millions of generated articles full of nothing...

    A nice book or piece of paper won't suddenly disappear when you need it as a reference/footnote.

  14. Not obsolete, even in paper by cwsumner · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Scientific Paper Is not obsolete, it has just fallen into evil ways. Paper or electronic, it is still needed in it's original purpose. It just needs to be "beaten with a blacksmith's hammer to get the rust and crud off" !

    1. Re:Not obsolete, even in paper by CrazyCaps · · Score: 1

      There need to be more peer reviewers whose sole job is to back up the results. To do the experiments or follow the math and to be able to say that the findings are valid or not. It is a perfect job for both the older experienced people and entry level people in that field.

      --
      Drive it like you stole it!
    2. Re:Not obsolete, even in paper by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The entry-level people need to get papers of their own out, the way academia's set up. Besides, someone is going to have to pay for the duplication of research, and that doesn't appear to be all that popular with funding agencies.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  15. Strongly disagree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a scientist who has published papers in peer-reviewed journals, I strongly disagree. I don't care for many aspects of the publication process or how academia works, but the scientific paper isn't obsolete.

    Regarding the use of software in creating results, it is definitely a problem when that software is difficult to use or isn't available at all. The same goes for data sets, many of which aren't released publicly for a variety of reasons. These are issues that need to be addressed.

    In my own work, I try to release the software used to perform my analysis under the GPLv3. I also try to include adequate documentation to allow the work to be reproducible. I also support making data publicly available, but sometimes the volume of data sets makes it prohibitive to redistribute the work. The best option in that case is to provide detailed instructions on how to generate the data set. But sometimes it's even worse, such as when the research requires using a closed source program with a license that prohibits redistributing the output. The license makes it relatively difficult to obtain the software for anyone outside of the US government or academia, unless they pay for a commercial license. There isn't a comparable piece of software, but the university that licenses the software uses restrictive licensing requirements to increase their revenue.

    To the extent that it's possible, scientists receiving grant funding ought to release their software as free and open source software. The data sets should be released or detailed instructions should be included to allow others to generate the same data set.

    Papers can be difficult to read, but there are at least some steps in the right direction. One of the encouraging changes is the use of more first person in scientific papers and less passive voice. The formal tone is being being phased out in favor of readability. I wholeheartedly support this because the subject matter is difficult enough to understand without awkward sentence structures. Peer-reviewed papers also provide some level of quality control for research, though not to the extent of reproducibility.

    Scientific papers still have a place, because they're still the best opportunity for scientists to present the key points of their results and describe their methods in detail. Simply releasing software and data sets is not enough. Those also aren't peer-reviewed. The bigger issue is that there just isn't a lot of funding to ensure that results are reproducible. Due to funding limits, there just isn't a lot of effort to reproduce all but the most surprising results. It would be great if funding agencies like NSF would allocate more funds for ensuring the reproducibility of existing results. Unfortunately, funding is so competitive that researchers have to sell their work as being very novel rather than verifying existing research.

    1. Re:Strongly disagree by Xylantiel · · Score: 1

      Yes scientific papers are not perfect, but are still very important. The summary seems to devolve into "bad papers are bad". Papers are only one source of scientific information. There are large databanks, software projects and repositories, etc, all with different struggles depending on the field.

    2. Re:Strongly disagree by mcswell · · Score: 2

      "Simply releasing software and data sets is not enough. Those also aren't peer-reviewed. The bigger issue is that there just isn't a lot of funding to ensure that results are reproducible." Preach it, brother! I just got done reviewing some conference papers, at least one of which was accompanied by software + data. Do you think I took the time to run the software on their data? No. Much less examine their data to see if it was representative, clean, etc. I don't have time for that, and as you say, there is no funding for it. There ought to be, IMO.

    3. Re:Strongly disagree by justaguy516 · · Score: 1

      Who cares? Either it is a known method giving unknown/new results on an established data-set, which is almost certainly a mistake. Or a brand new method, giving unexpected results, in which case I want to review the algorithm itself, not its realization in software; if the algorithm proof is solid, many people will want to implement it in their own way. If the data-set is new, I will recommend to the author that he first verifies it using some standard techniques, before he tries a new approach on it.

    4. Re:Strongly disagree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of scientists care, dunno where you're coming from.

  16. not dead by AndyKron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Quality not quantity. If it can't be explained in a paper it's probably wrong.

    1. Re:not dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But employment as a scientist has been gamified by publication metrics, so of course it's all gone to shit. As always, bad management is the scourge of the modern age.

    2. Re:not dead by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      You have any evidence for that? ;)

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    3. Re:not dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, yes, it can be explained in a paper. In my particular field (modeling of cells), you just need some perquisites to read a 12 pages paper:

      - biology (an introductory book of >1000 pages),
      - biochemistry (an introductory book of >600 pages),
      - calculus (an introductory book of >1000 pages),
      - multivariate calculus (an introductory book of >1000 pages),
      - statistics/probability (an introductory book of >1000 pages),
      - (partial) differential equations (an introductory book of >400 pages),
      - dynamical systems (an introductory book of >300 pages),
      - stochastic differential equation (an introductory book of >300 pages),
      - some physics: mechanic/quantum mechanic/electromagnetism (an introductory book of >1000 pages),
      - some numerical methods (some introductory books >400 pages, a lot only in papers),
      - the details of hundreds of proteins (and their isoforms), molecules and their interactions
      - ... I probably forgot some ...

      For the layman, most the sentences will be unintelligible but everything is explained in the paper. Every single word have a precise meaning. Yes, it is explainable in 12 pages but not to anybody. Science is hard learn, the language of science (math) is hard to learn, there is no shortcut. You have to work very hard for a long time.

  17. The Time of Scientific Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's clearly time to start writing riveting books about the process, the methods and the feelings and drama related to discovery. That way the general public can fund the science by just reading the drama, and there are enough pages to communicate the rest for other scientists.

    1. Re:The Time of Scientific Books by sgage · · Score: 3, Funny

      It was a dark and stormy night. As I stepped into my lab, the lightning was cracking all around. I knew this was going to be no ordinary experimental run. Oh, the excitement, dear Reader, as I fired up my computer! And then, it happened...

      --- to read the rest of this article, please subscribe ---

  18. Not everything is simple by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At one time science was intended for the masses - that the Atlantic attributes this to "a simpler time" is also moronic as it was the intent of the authors, in fact all authors of the time, to write clearly and succinctly so that anyone could understand their work.

    Science has never been "for the masses". Most concepts of any meaningful complexity are not going to be written at an 8th grade reading level. Issac Newton's Principia is certainly not written "for the masses" nor should it be expected to be dumbed down. As Einstein once put it, things should be made as simple as possible but no simpler.

    You see that not only in the scientific papers of the time but also in the laws (the US Constitution).

    The Constitution isn't really a law. It is a framework for the laws. It sets the boundaries that are fleshed out by the laws. The actual federal laws are the United States Code, the United States Reports and the Code of Federal Regulations. There also

    You also see the same problem in laws today where laws are now tends of thousands of pages long. How is any one person (let alone a dedicated group) supposed to understand the law as written?

    You are presupposing that it is a good thing that laws be so simple that a single person can understand and know all them. The reality of our society is that it is so complex that the laws governing it inevitably will be similarly complex. Make a simple law and there are going to be gaps in that law unless you add complexity to deal with the corner cases. To circle back, science has no obligation to be simple enough for "the masses" to comprehend any or all of it.

    1. Re:Not everything is simple by mcswell · · Score: 1

      IANL, but I think you're both right. There are complicated things in this world, and laws need to be complicated to account for them (not to mention unambiguous). But when the tax code for ordinary citizens (I'm not even talking corporations) is so complicated that IRS employees who are answering questions from the public can't understand it, perhaps it's gotten more complicated than it needs to be.

      True story. About ten years ago, the IRS told me I had miscalculated my taxes. In fear and trembling, I looked back at the line of my return they were disputing. Read it and its explanation five or more times, decided I was right and they were wrong. Got on the phone with one of their agents, pointed out exactly the wording that meant I was right, and argued back and forth for fifteen minutes. The employee was still convinced I was wrong, but finally got tired of me and told me she would connect me with one of their legal people. The legal person heard my explanation, and immediately agreed with me. She said "You understand the tax law well." I would dispute that, but at least I understood this particular piece of it. And at least two IRS employees (the one who had audited my return, and the first one I spoke to on the phone) did not. There's something wrong with that, and I don't believe it's that IRS employees are any dumber than the rest of us. Rather, it's that the tax code is too complicated.

      I'm sure there are other laws (Obama Care, whether you agree with it or not, is an example).

      In case anyone's interested, my base income (salary) had put me just over the limit for social security taxes (above that limit, you don't pay taxes on additional income). Besides my salary, I had reported consulting income on a separate form. The claim was that I owed social security tax on that consulting income. Of course I didn't; the max for social security included the sum of salary and consulting, and my salary had already put me over that max.

    2. Re:Not everything is simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the point of the law... If the average person is expected to follow the law, then the law should be made so the average person should be able to follow the law. As the old saying goes ignorance of the law is no excuse for not following the law, but if a reasonable person makes a good faith effort to know and follow the law and still cannot then that isn't ignorance of the law.

    3. Re:Not everything is simple by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      So, some IRS employees didn't understand the law correctly, but since you were disputing the law they referred it to someone who did know the law. Isn't this how the system is supposed to work?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:Not everything is simple by mcswell · · Score: 1

      My point is that referring the case to the law system should never have been necessary. It should instead have been possible for the employees who audit returns to come up with the right answer without a lawyer.

      But you're right in that the law system worked as it should have in this case.

  19. I just use the MIT random paper generator by Proudrooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    MIT Random Paper Generator for computer science papers
    https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/arc...

    Mathgen for Math Papers
    http://thatsmathematics.com/ma...

    Seriously, does anyone even read the paper anymore? I read the abstract and possibly the method.

    At the end of the day, it is just an academic echo chamber where every paper references each other and none of it is very earth shattering. You should read the dissertations that don't make it into journals, those are really sad. For example, "Analysis of Socioeconomic Status and Student Achievement", or in other words, "Poor kids don't get good grades.", most papers could classified as Ric Romero papers where the outcome is obvious or in some cases statistically insignificant such that more papers need to be written with new experimental methods.

    But for those of your writing papers, I leave you with my favorite research design song.
    https://youtu.be/Hxbz656Euyw

    1. Re:I just use the MIT random paper generator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Seriously, does anyone even read the paper anymore?"

      Yes I do, nearly always, but there's an activation energy to really getting into them. I've recently finished a 4 year PhD. Maybe I'm slower than most, but despite reading papers on the topic throughout the project, it wasn't until the last 6 months that I really started to get them. I could read papers from start to finish and understand all of the content, recognize most of the references as work I had read before, and also spot where the authors were misrepresenting the references, or not fully explaining their own work.

      It took a little over three years of living and breathing the subject material for me to reach that point.

      While papers can be written to be superficially accessible, there is another dimension to study that should be appreciated.

    2. Re:I just use the MIT random paper generator by swillden · · Score: 1

      At the end of the day, it is just an academic echo chamber where every paper references each other and none of it is very earth shattering.

      Good science is often obvious in hindsight. This isn't an artifact of the science, it's an artifact of hindsight, and of one of the many deep and systematic biases inherent to the human brain.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  20. Not obsolete, you're just doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good - A paper with a straightforward goal and practical bent, allowing (encouraging?) the reader to reproduce the experiment, or at least repeat the analyses and verify the result.

    Bad - A paper that obfuscates its purpose, doesn't explain the thing it's supposed to or doesn't have the accompanying data that allows a reader to confirm the analysis and conclusions. But at least you published Something. Or maybe several Somethings in a row since you stretched it out.

  21. Read the paper::vaporware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reminds me (I'm more than old enough) about the "revolution" that would be occurring as soon as hypertext links (in the now obsolete sense, not html) were included in every paper. At the time, no one was considering that computer-to-computer communication/ data transfer would come to dominate the "connected world". The author disses .pdf format because it isn't "alive" enough for him. He apparently fails to recognize that for publishing (as we understand it today) you actually NEED to create a static object (the paper) rather than some constantly changing, impossible to pin down, meta-document. (Which has impossible to deconstruct internal structural dependencies... how do you verify a result if the process of obtaining it is opaque? You can't. This electronic notebooks thing just substitutes internal opacity for what we have now (as poor as it is). ) The best thing that has happened to science in the last 2 or 3 decades is the advent of the watch-dog sites. Not sure if that is sustainable. probably not. post science, indeed.

  22. Brevity is the soul of... by physicsphairy · · Score: 2

    They were less specialized, more direct, shorter, and far less formal.

    It's funny having the Atlantic argue for concise articulation of an idea. Printing this article would take 17 pages.

  23. Re:Most articles are even crap when there isnt com by Harvey+Manfrenjenson · · Score: 2

    Iâ(TM)ve worked with one dork who wrote a paper a month because it was a 2k bonus and after working with him briefly i found out he was basically was a historian. He just used other papers as a reference and did no actual study or research.

    Yes, this kind of paper is called a "review article". What's your point?

  24. Clobbering Reality With Statistics by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

    Too much 'science' today consists of gathering a ton of data and clobbering it with statistics.

    That's a dangerous trend. It's not science.

  25. Marriage of science and computer science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the more reason for increasing coding skills in American schools, and raising the status of the nerd in society from an outcast to a potential innovator.

    It is important for American business leaders not to export technical jobs to other countries, in order to foster the training of talent here in the United States.

    Universities and colleges need to emphasize the applied sciences as much as the pure sciences. That is also true for mathematics curricula.

    Computer science curricula needs to be merged with applied science curricula, so that computer scientists can collaborate better with scientists in their research. Historically, computer science has served commercial applications in businesses, and it has concentrated on pure computer science to make computers more efficient. Now computer science needs to increase its involvement with scientific research.

  26. perhaps by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    The scientific paper may indeed be obsolete.

    But magazines like The Atlantic certainly are obsolete.

    1. Re:perhaps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Magazines like The Atlantic will not be obsolete as long as they create successful click-bait for advertisers. That is the business they are in. But the article raises the question of what business are scientists in. The real problem is that they are quickly moving to become part of the same business as the Atlantic, scientific papers that create interesting click bait are not obsolete at all. But papers that don't attract an audience not so much.

  27. Read journal articles by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We are now in an era where only very few people actually need to know how reality works. The rest of us can become brand managers and youtube content creators.

    There's an acceptance of this. It's unusual for someone to read a journal article before, say, junior year of undergrad. A lot of people probably graduate without reading one at all. Many of them will never pick one up in later life.

    It means they can be duped more easily. When was the last time someone you know who disagreed with the existence of global warming picked up a journal article by a climate scientist? When was the last time someone who hates charter schools read through a journal article on charter schools by an economist? Most of us almost unknowingly adopt the positions we hear praised that sound reasonable without looking at data, and people who have *never* looked at data barely even have that option open to them.

    If you don't read an article every once in a while, or if you don't know how, you're just trusting that whoever sounds best is right.

    Maybe they are. They sound reasonable, after all. But it turns out that what sounds reasonable often isn't. The truth isn't about who sounds best to us.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:Read journal articles by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      Damn. Well said.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    2. Re:Read journal articles by losfromla · · Score: 1

      When was the last time the someone who is in charge of public schools visited a public school that is struggling?

      *hint*
      the answer rhymes with "ever"

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    3. Re:Read journal articles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I served on a school board for a while, and visited the school multiple times a month. You might be right for very large districts, but even then I'd bet administrators and/or board members are in schools pretty regularly.

    4. Re:Read journal articles by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      ... When was the last time someone who hates charter schools read through a journal article on charter schools by an economist?

      Economists don't evaluate educational results, so not a highly enlightening source for intel on charter schools v. public schools
      The economist will always prefer the "Devil take the hindmost" approach.

  28. Re:Most articles are even crap when there isnt com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I’m a retard.

    Fixed that door you.

  29. Same as rest of world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With large datasets etc., it is clear paper-oriented publishing will have to change. Journals can become vetters and summarizers; giving links to fuller data sets. The journal may want to backup the data to avoid post-publish cheating, however.

  30. Re:Bull. Shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it was the intent of the authors, in fact all authors of the time, to write clearly and succinctly so that anyone could understand their work.

    Such an appealing idea... to the masses, basically meaning "if you cannot understand something, it was the writer's fault".

    It sounded so... reasonable, until one mastered a difficult topic for the first time in their life. Then they find out that sometimes, there really are ideas that cannot be easily understood unless the listener had already learned a set of other ideas first, and thus it was not possible to explain simply to the masses.

    Sure, you could "simplify" any idea so any ten year old might *think* they understood** the idea, but really didn't. Which is another way of saying you had made the idea simpler than what was possible, and thus no longer the original idea anymore.

    ** - I was using the Feynman's meaning of "understanding", meaning that to "understand" something, you would be able to guess/predict what would happen to that thing under certain circumstances.

  31. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But they are being damaged by the increasing proportions of bollocks being published.

  32. Quantity over quality by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 1

    As long as the academic research system values quantity over quality (AKA "publish or perish"), researchers will be pressured to publish papers as frequently as possible regardless of their quality or that they make meaningful contributions to science. Yes, it's really difficult to reproduce incoherent trash. Give "good" researchers tenure and reward the quality of the science they do, then we might learn more interesting and useful stuff. Prioritising quantity over quality just creates more noise in which to look for the good science.

    --
    Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
  33. Re:Bull. Shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ** - I was using the Feynman's meaning of "understanding", meaning that to "understand" something, you would be able to guess/predict what would happen to that thing under certain circumstances.

    Wonderful! This should be quoted more than it is in modern society. I have had so many people tell me, who should know better, College professors with PHDs that "We don't even know what it means to 'understand' something!" They probably have been trained into this logical fallacy because it makes people with less than a certain level of IQ and experience shut up and go into thinking paralysis.

    The truth is on a certain level a 5th grader understands this concept but cannot put it into words so eloquently.

    This one needs to be brought out more when the young earth scientists and the creationists and the Flat Earthers and most importantly now the climate change deniers in the government try to discredit literally thousands of man years of careful research that has shown a consensus and it happens to disagree with their bosses business model. (That is the truth, it is not that there is any confusion in a lot of cases on how science works, how the things science is measuring works, it is that it makes billion dollar industries obsolete and therefore, it has to have FUD spread about it. FUD, remember that Slashdot? from back when you were really News for Nerds and stuff that matters??)

    At a point I think the scientific community is going to ban together and take down the corporate elite. This is the future!

  34. The Atlantic is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe one of the dumbest things I've seen all day, and I've been on Reddit

  35. not even wrong by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

    I'm also a scientist, and like several others here, have serious problems with the prestige publishing culture of science, but the paper itself is not the problem. Could we present material better? Sure. Those are very field specific pedagogy issues though, we're not nearly all doing the same things wrong.

    The problem with the premise of the article is the presumption that the paper IS the science. A scientific publication is not a scientific achievement, it is the scientific version of a press release (with peer review... but if anything could benefit from some modernization and interactivity, it's peer review). Reading a paper is only the very first part of seriously evaluating a new piece of science.

    It's blind to imagine that all of science is wrapped up in a software focused world. Take electronics, for example. Researchers who have access to commercial fabs far outpace researchers who only have access to academic clean rooms.

    This is not a case of university researchers being priced out of competition. Academics in many cases are more well funded than industry goups, and they generally spend more money on building and maintaining their clean rooms than it would cost to simply outsource to a fab. The trick is that they are very appropriately focused on education. Educating your students requires running material through training facilities, which is simply very expensive. (It's a digression, but one of the reasons industry is popular is the focus on pure technical achievement without the need to support training, win grants, or give up hands on work to get paid.)

    There's no equivalent to free software in most of science; rather, software is unique in being able to provide industry standard performance in a training environment.

    1. Re:not even wrong by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I'm also a scientist, and like several others here, have serious problems with the prestige publishing culture of science

      It's a problem with science funding, more than science per-se. Want a career? You have to have "impact", whcih means publish in the most well known places etc. Seriously who likes slogging through reviews at a venue with a 3% acceptance rate?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  36. Utter Rubbish by prefec2 · · Score: 1

    First, papers are not necessarily getting longer. It depends on the discipline and outlet. In CS papers are often published in context of conferences. They have generally page limited. In other disciplines and in journals, papers can become longer, as they have to provide more context as the disciplines and subdisciplines accumulate more knowledge. You just need more context info to understand the stuff.

    Second, in CS, especially in software engineering, publications require now an empirical evaluation of the claim. This requires more space.

    And their, presently papers are augmented by additional publications such aa data publication and source code. So I would rather see the paper evolving then going away or becoming obsolete. In future, we will have also interactive parts in a paper or related to a paper. Still you need some text to explain your hypotheses, your way of proofing it, and the evaluation.

  37. Not everything is as simple as a rule book by Falconnan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the problem is misidentified in your comment, but in the details. The data publication is part of the peer review and publication process. It allows another specialist in the field to go over your study and its results, and attempt to replicate them. It also allows for discussion of conclusions. The "Abstract" is supposed to be the basic, plain language breakdown, including the conclusions. However, while you're right about the societal issue, there's a deeper one: All of the relatively easy science has been done. The questions are getting more complex. We're looking to more subtle phenomena to find more secrets of the way reality works.

    The observations of physical phenomena that allow computers to work far exceeds the time of Newton (believed by many to be the last time one human could know the sum total of accumulated knowledge about nature). Fields are specialized, and "jargon/technobabble" are the layman's epithets for a field's shorthand that he/she doesn't get. Yes, we could likely simplify the law. Knowledge is not so readily boiled down. No one bats an eye at the odd uses of common words you find in the skilled trades, but everyone loses their shit when a scientist falls back on terms with precise meanings within their own fields.

    NOTE: It was once common practice to include an attempt at a layperson's digest with a lot of papers, or at least publish it alongside the paper. This has gone away, which is a shame. However, when every such digest turns into Dunning-Kruger effect demonstration with the public, I would think it gets old. But a lot of the science being done now is beyond the limits of common understanding. Quantum computing, block chains, AMPS firewalls... It's hard to try to break that stuff down for the masses when the Flat Earthers are gaining ground!

  38. herbal formula by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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  39. Re: Bull. Shit. by gtall · · Score: 1

    No, it started with the Enlightenment (and before them, the Greeks) when those primeval scientists realized that the masses knew squat and were incapable of understanding more sophisticated concepts and methods. No amount of writing for the masses is going to make them understand complicated interacting systems, mathematics, physics, etc. And most proles don't want to know about those elements of science. What they want are whizzy things that make their lives easier or more fun.

  40. Re:Bull. Shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    > You also see the same problem in laws today where laws are now tends of thousands of pages long. How is any one person (let alone a dedicated group) supposed to understand the law as written?

    This is especially galling when those in power say stuff along the lines of "not knowing the law is no excuse for not following it". If it takes years of dedicated study to understand the law, and the vast majority of the population do not study law to anywhere near that degree, how the hell are we supposed to follow it? Natural "laws" at least physically constrain us from doing otherwise (you violated the law of conservation of energy, pay 500 or go to jail).

  41. Re:Bull. Shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It does make me laugh. A physicist will give a public talk about "the astonishing simplicity of everything" and then the following week will publish a paper about "the astonishing complexity of even this basic 3-particle interaction".

  42. Re: Bull. Shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At a point I think the scientific community is going to ban together and take down the corporate elite. This is the future!

    I'll be honest, I don't see this happening. Life isn't a Simpson's episode.
    This planet will go full ice-age before the masses start listening.
    It's already happening now. I'll be surprised if it doesn't happen this half of the century given its recent acceleration.
    The only thing you should be doing now is preparations for this inevitable future so your children can not only survive, but thrive.

  43. Free science from Elsevier, IEEE & co. by stooo · · Score: 1

    The Scientific communication is not obsolete.
    The paper form is.
    But more importantly, what is really obsolete is the actual business model for profit editors on science content, like Elsevier, or IEEE and their dark friends.
    They need abolishing or regulation. The fees they want just to read the content are horrendous, and non justified in the actual situation.
    We need freely accessible science. For Everybody.
    Ask a small fee for publishing, for example.

    --
    aaaaaaa
  44. Fair, functional, simple - pick two by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But when the tax code for ordinary citizens (I'm not even talking corporations) is so complicated that IRS employees who are answering questions from the public can't understand it, perhaps it's gotten more complicated than it needs to be.

    Oh there is no question that you can overdo the complexity. But most of the unnecessary complexity of our tax code comes from politicians using it to fund their pet social policies inappropriately. For example whether you are married or single should have ZERO impact on your taxes. If the government wants to address that, the tax code is not the proper place to do it. If the government wants to subsidize something, just do so directly. Using taxes to do it is inefficient and adds needless complexity to the tax code. So we get heaping mounds of complexity where none needs to exist.

    That said, some of that complexity is necessary. If we are going to have an income tax (whether we should is a separate question) you have to define income and that is surprisingly difficult to do in a way that doesn't have loopholes you can drive a semi through. I'm an accountant so I should know. There also is the question of fairness which is more of a social question than a technical one but it's also hard to have a tax code that is fair, functional, and simple. (no - plans like a flat tax fail that test though I understand the appeal) As HL Menken said "there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong."

    1. Re:Fair, functional, simple - pick two by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (no - plans like a flat tax fail that test though I understand the appeal) As HL Menken said "there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong."

      With a flat tax on say the first $150,000 of income for single filers and around double that for families and completely eliminating the standard deduction and replacing it with something a universal basic income then you could completely eliminate the need for tax returns for around 95% of the US population.

      Having various tax brackets and deduction phase outs which cover a larger percentage of the population are what make it overly complicated for folks not making more than a middle range of income. I agree with a progressive income tax on the rich, but you can implement one without imposing a regulatory burden on people of middle income.

    2. Re:Fair, functional, simple - pick two by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh there is no question that you can overdo the complexity. But most of the unnecessary complexity of our tax code comes from politicians using it to fund their pet social policies inappropriately. For example whether you are married or single should have ZERO impact on your taxes. If the government wants to address that, the tax code is not the proper place to do it. If the government wants to subsidize something, just do so directly. Using taxes to do it is inefficient and adds needless complexity to the tax code. So we get heaping mounds of complexity where none needs to exist.

      That said, some of that complexity is necessary. If we are going to have an income tax (whether we should is a separate question) you have to define income and that is surprisingly difficult to do in a way that doesn't have loopholes you can drive a semi through. I'm an accountant so I should know. There also is the question of fairness which is more of a social question than a technical one but it's also hard to have a tax code that is fair, functional, and simple. (no - plans like a flat tax fail that test though I understand the appeal)

      There's no question that they have overdone the complexity. Last I checked, the US federal tax code was 2,700 pages, and the tax code of the UK was 17,000 pages.

      I'm not sure how things work in the UK, but in the USA there are many supplemental documents that also contribute to the complexity of the tax system. Many judicial precedents, for example, are applicable to understanding the system. There are also many relevant documents produced by the US IRS. Finally, there is also US state and local law to take into consideration. So arguably the real complexity of taxes in the US is considerably higher than just the mere 2,700 pages of the code.

      The tax code of Hong Kong, on the other hand, is 276 pages.

      It seems clear that there are some serious problems with the codes of the USA and the UK. Some complexity may be necessary, but they've gone far beyond that point.

      The dual rights to ethical government and ethical practice of law can be asserted as universal and inalienable rights - and even the appearance of conflict of interest must be avoided when alternatives exist. Further, a right to long term public oversight over government can be asserted as an universal and inalienable right.

      It is clear that nations do not need tax codes that are thousands of pages long. As a result of complexity, these codes create an artificial demand for the services of lawyers and accountants and government officials - the very same people that will be involved in writing the code, interpreting them, and enforcing them. Hence, from an ethics perspective, the current systems involve both the appearance and the reality of ethical conflict of interest, and thus exist in violation of fundamental human rights. Further, the complexity of the codes limits the ability of the public to exercise the right of long term oversight over government.

      In the USA, the rights to ethical government and ethical practice of law can be asserted under the authority of the 9th and 10th Amendments (rights retained by the people, rights reserved to the people). As such, the US tax system violates the US Bill of Rights, and is an illegal body of law as currently implemented - and the judges who are upholding this illegal body of law are in violation of their oaths of office and the Constitutional requirement of "good behaviour".

      Aside from the points above, an overly complex tax code provides a lot of underbrush in which loopholes can be hidden. This encourages corruption, and is likely to create a regressive tax system, which isn't in the interests of society. Various propaganda sources like to claim that the US federal tax code is highly progressive - but that claim depends upon ignoring many exceptions such as capital gains, inheritance, and special cases involving money overseas. Even just taking into account the highly regressive tax systems at the state a

    3. Re:Fair, functional, simple - pick two by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      For example whether you are married or single should have ZERO impact on your taxes.

      It's more complicated than that. Consider two married couples with family incomes of $100K. In the first, the husband and wife each earn $50K; in the second, one of them earns $100K while the other does support functions (taking over most of the housework, being available for company events, etc. - I have a relative who was a corporate wife, and couldn't have a real career of her own). Should they pay the same or different taxes? If they're taxed as single people, then the household with one primary money earner gets taxed more, which doesn't seem right to many people. If they're taxed as a couple, should they be taxed the same as an individual who makes that much money? How much incentive do we want to give people to get divorced (or not get married) to save money on taxes? (I know a woman who got married for the tax advantage.) I haven't come up with a scheme I consider fair.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  45. It's a science career scoreboard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Papers haven't been about science itself in decades. It's how the industry rates your production as a career scientist/researcher. You get papers published or you don't get money and prestige. Doesn't matter what the papers content is.

  46. Why papers get written by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In many disciplines (mine included - economics), the bulk of papers are written to satisfy some employment promotion criteria. Aside from this and the paper's review process, most papers are relevant to, and read carefully by, a handful of experts at best. To be clear: they do not describe scientific research that is relevant to others. It's not in the writing, but in the design of the research - the question being asked and the approach and tools used to answer it.
    Is this a productive model or are there easily better uses of the authors human capital? I lean towards the latter.

  47. It really is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember modern "science" is what brought us things like "evolution" and "global warming". People seem to be so willing to buy into obvious lies and misdirections that they have twisted the definition of science to make sure their beleifs fit.

  48. Revelle buffer by Latent+Heat · · Score: 3, Informative

    How many scientists engaged in climate science research understand even the basics of the Carbon Cycle?

    It is more or less generally accepted in the climate science community that the 20th century increase in atmospheric CO2 accounts for half of humanity's emissions of CO2, with the remaining half absorbed by sinks that are only partially understood. There is evidence from high-precision analytical chemistry methods for quantifying atmospheric oxygen available for only the last decades that about half of the net "sunk" CO2 is taken up by net photosynthesis over respiration whereas the remaining sink must be inorganic where free oxygen is not released in exchange for sequestered CO2.

    It is broadly reasoned that emissions of CO2 are changing the carbon-isotope profile of the atmosphere -- what is called the Suess Effect after R. Revelle and H. E. Suess (1957) Carbon Dioxide Exchange Between Atmosphere and Ocean and the Question of an Increase of Atmospheric CO, during the Past Decades, Tellus IX (1) pp. 18-27. This dilution of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere from combustion of fuel with a "fossil" isotope profile differing from the atmospheric baseline was throwing off C-14 carbon dating until it was recognized data methods were accordingly corrected.

    The Suess Effect dilution of carbon isotopes, however, is considerable less than expected from a simple addition of combusted carbon with the fossil isotope profile. The carbon capacity of the ocean is 50 times that of the atmosphere, so why doesn't nearly all of the emitted CO2 isn't absorbed into the ocean. The rapid extinction of radioactive C-14 after the 60's Nuclear Atmospheric Test Ban Treaty suggests this should be the case.

    The linear Henry's Law for solubility of gas in liquid would require that the dilution of carbon isotopes should be in direct measure with the emitted CO2, but Revelle's earlier work posited a chemical buffer system, where the mineral stew that is ocean water binds absorbed CO2 into what are called "soluble inorganic carbonates." Equilibrium in chemical reactions is non-linear and follows product law in the concentrations of the reagents. Physical chemists regard Revelle's buffer system to follow a 10th power law in the concentration of atmospheric CO2. This means that it takes a 10-fold increase in atmospheric CO2 to effect a 1-fold increase in CO2 in the ocean buffer system.

    The ocean is vast, and even with the Revelle Factor of 10, most of the CO2 emitted by humanity should have disappeared into the ocean. Revelle and Suess in 1957 speculated on possible large natural sources of CO2 emission to balance this out. Since then, it is a scientific consensus that it takes a long time for the deep ocean to "turn over" by natural circulation and the combination of the Revelle buffer with a "compartmental" ocean model accounts for what is observed without that large, unknown natural source. But the deep ocean is difficult to measure, and the modelling is hand-wavy, at least in comparison to the multiple sigmas required to discover a new subatomic particle, although the atmospheric oxygen measures suggest a bound on how much CO2 is absorbed in the ocean.

    But not just in the annual seasonal fluctuation but also year-to-year and over longer time scales, the variation in net CO2 increase in the atmosphere is large in comparison to the human contribution, suggesting variation in the exchanges of CO2 with the biosphere, the flows of which are known to be large compared to human-caused emissions. This variation also correlates with atmospheric temperature data. NOAA Carbon Cycle maven Pieter Tams argues this variation to result from changes in the rapid rotting of leaf litter in the tropical rain forests and is only short term. There is a body of literature emerging that rising global temperature are having a multi-decadal effect on increased CO2 driven out of temperate region soils, a potentially dangerous positive feedback leading to a runaway greenhouse.

    Actually, you cannot have it

    1. Re:Revelle buffer by Mark+of+the+North · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many scientists engaged in climate science research understand even the basics of the Carbon Cycle?

      [...]

      Given that the first topic in my first university course on climate change was The Carbon Cycle, my bet is that nearly all climate scientists have a fairly well-developed understanding of the Carbon Cycle.

      So much of science and scientific publishing relies on what I cynically call "argument by authority" -- someone got some claim past peer review so I will cite it without having to defend it to the reviewers of my paper.[...]

      "Argument by Authority" is a well known logical fallacy, in which most scientists are well-versed. Argument by Authority is particularly egregious when the argument is by someone who isn't an authority at all, yet claims to be. This is common in more main stream media, including the kinds of crappy general interest books you can find at your local big box stores, like the ones on fad diets, but is incredibly rare in reputable scientific journals.

      The fact is that if a scientist can over-throw an argument made by an authority in a field, they get a tremendous amount of respect, probably becoming authorities in the field as a result. The same goes for over-throwing the scientific consensus. That's the thing about scientists, we really like pushing understanding forward. That's the focus of our work.

      Now your comment is instructive on logical fallacies, because your own arguments are absolutely packed with them. Your main problem is motivated reasoning (ie. proving your foregone conclusion), and that you are anomaly hunting, but you are also way behind on the literature, if you have any first-hand exposure to it at all. This means that you make several assertions that simply aren't true: It is well understood that and how the ocean's are absorbing the bulk of carbon emissions. The atmospheric and oceanic isotope ratios are well understood and continue to support our climate models, including absorption of the oceons. The seasonal variations due to the actions of biological systems are also well-understood. In short, the disagreement you see simply does not exist, the dominant models are supported by observation to an amazing degree.

      All of this would be covered in detail in any university-level introductory climate change course. If you want to do some reading, I'd recommend Global Climate Change: Convergence of Disciplines, by Arnold Bloom. Honestly, if you can't at least give a common textbook on a well-developed field a read, you'd best just put your faith in the scientific consensus.

    2. Re:Revelle buffer by david_thornley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We know about how much fossil fuel we burn, and therefore how much CO2 we put into the atmosphere. We also measure the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. As far as changing the temperature goes, it doesn't matter whether we put the CO2 in the atmosphere directly or release some because of warming. Either method is anthropogenic, directly or indirectly. And here you are making crap up about what scientists do and don't know and trying to make elaborate arguments to deny reality.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  49. Read _Decent_ Journal Articles by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    If you don't read an article every once in a while, or if you don't know how, you're just trusting that whoever sounds best is right.

    It is actually worse than that because of predatory journals which have low to non-existent standards. Even people who read articles can easily get fooled if they read one of these so you not only need to read articles you need to know which journals to read and sometimes even which authors to trust.

  50. Nonscientist declares scientific papers obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the keen insight, James Somers writing for the Atlantic. It's always refreshing when online journalists with degrees in nothing-in-particular come to sweeping conclusions about what's wrong with the scientific world.

    One bit that provoked a chuckle is that he interviews Eric Weisstein who bemoans lack of clarity while gratuitously advertising Mathematica as a solution. I remember your MathWorld site Eric, but let's just say it wasn't exactly at the pinnacle of clarity and brevity. Half of the proofs looked like they were copied verbatim from ancient texts where the emphasis was never to bring science / math to a level that the masses could understand. Wikipedia articles are generally much better in comparison as they are broken up into distinct sections with some commentary, as opposed to the wall of equations style that permeated MathWorld.

  51. Re:Bull. Shit. by AlwinBarni · · Score: 1

    Science is intended for the masses, the problem is that the masses are not interested in science and with time progressing not even capable of understanding basic concepts (aka flat Earth).

    From what I read, in XIX (19th) century science was a common topic of discussions at homes and publicly, people were interested, were talking about science and participated in public lectures organized for non-scientists. Leaders consulted scientists, artists took inspiration from science. And to the contrary, nowadays being interested in science has pejorative meaning. It is OK to publicly boost of never being good at math, but not knowing how many Kardashians there are means somebody is socially inept.

    I hope that masses will come to realization, that it's thank to scientists that their lives are so easy and comfortable nowadays and that there are adorable cat videos they can watch with a tap of their finger.

  52. We implemented the Navier-Stokes equations by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    That was my favorite line in mid-1990s SIGGraph paper presentations. Riiiiight. My other favorite was when SIGGraph "course" conveniently glossed over the C/C++ code for implementing an adaptive 4th-order Runge-Kutta solver which is the key to any dynamics simulation software.

  53. Wow, not the point by volkris · · Score: 2

    The point of scientific journals is not to communicate findings to the public but to record findings and share them with other members of the scientific community.

    The papers are full of jargon because that's the state of the discipline. And it's not a bad thing. The people reading the papers will be up to speed on the jargon, so that's just how it's most effectively communicated.

    Journals just wouldn't work if every paper had to start with a multi-year course on the topic to get the reader up to speed. It's up to the reader to have the background needed to understand the paper.

    That's not obsolete; it's cutting edge!

  54. Flat Earthers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where exactly are they gaining ground? Or is that just a code word for anyone who disagrees with you.

    1. Re:Flat Earthers by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      According to Wikipedia, Flat Earthers are increasing in number, due to increasing influence of ignorant or stupid but popular people through social media.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  55. Re:Bull. Shit. by Ferretman · · Score: 1

    That seems a bit of an elitist attitude, isn't it?

    Ferret

    --
    Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
  56. Carbon Cycle by Latent+Heat · · Score: 2

    The oceans are not absorbing the bulk of the (anthropogenic) carbon emissions -- their net absorption is only a quarter of what is emitted. This is the consensus, not a fringe conclusion.

    The "CO2" skeptics Salby, Pettersson and Essenhigh claim that the oceans should be absorbing the bulk of the emitted CO2 -- mainstream scientists Revelle and Suess thought the same thing, but the reasons why they are not absorbing the bulk of CO2 is buried in the literature.

    I shall look for your reference, but the technical understanding of the Carbon Cycle to refute Salby and the others is not generally available in undergraduate textbooks, otherwise, Salby's arguments would have been countered without resorting attacks on his character.

    The reasons why the consensus Carbon Cycle explains the Keeling Curve of the 20th century increase in CO2 concentration along with why the extinction of the Bomb Test C-14 post the Test Ban Treaty are deep, not widely known even among the informed, and I had to dig deep to get at them.

    The Consensus Carbon Cycle according to my dynamic system calculation indeed explains the Keeling curve quite accurate, that is ignoring the year-to-year fluctuations in the derivative of that curve that correlate with temperature according to Salby and other sources. What happens when you account for that temperature sensitivity, the amount of CO2 resulting from human activity in relation to the amount of increase from natural source on account of 20th century warming becomes uncertain. Pieter Tams of NOAA dismisses this uncertainty by claiming that the source of the fluctuation is a small tropical-forest leaf litter reservoir that rapidly rots and releases carbon back to the atmosphere on a 1-2 year time scale. Other data call this into question by measuring significant emission of carbon from temperate soils that correlates with temperature on decade-long times.

  57. Re:Bull. Shit. by werepants · · Score: 1

    Have you ever contributed to a non-trivial paper? I've contributed to a few, and for an experiment of any complexity (at least in my field, which was testing the effects of radiation on electronics) there will be thousands of lines of control and data collection software, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of instrumentation with very consequential configuration options which would take thousands of lines to describe completely, spreadsheets and/or scripts for the data analysis, schematics for the many involved circuits, and test logs with hundreds or thousands of lines. Don't forget the MB of dosimetry data or the complete traceability information and specifications on the experimental parts (which basically amounts to the entire datasheet, or for a complex part the entire application guide). Oh, and maybe you should actually leave some room to describe your test procedure, which can involve stupid amounts of detail if you are actually being thorough (have to describe the custom power-up procedure you're using to run a modern DRAM in a highly custom configuration that diverges wildly from what the mfg ever intended, for starters).

    We would include as much of this information as possible in test reports which would sometimes total 100 pages or more, but even then it's a challenge to include truly all the information required to replicate results. So, if you want to publish, you then need to distill all of that information, every piece of which has a potentially dramatic impact on experimental results, into less then 10 pages, but more commonly 2 or 3.

    To be honest, it would make a ton of sense for science publication to start moving towards something more like a git project or some other publishing paradigm that could support the truly heinous amount of detail required to describe any modern experiment unambiguously. When you think about it, an experiment isn't so different from code - you need to execute a set of incredibly detailed steps in an absolutely consistent manner. But supposing that science hasn't gotten insanely complex is absolutely ignorant and shows that you've never had any direct experience with publishing or even given the matter serious thought.

  58. Cleverly written by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A long web page that turns out as an advertisement for Wolfram's Mathematica software.