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California Bill Would Restore, Strengthen Net Neutrality Protections (mercurynews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Mercury News: With the FCC order to repeal net neutrality rules set to take effect next week, a bill that would restore those regulations in California will get its first hearing Tuesday (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source). SB 822, written by State Sen. Scott D. Wiener, D-San Francisco, is backed by big names including Tom Wheeler, the Obama-appointed former Federal Communications Commission chairman who wrote the 2015 Open Internet Order. Wheeler is joined by former FCC commissioners Michael Copps and Gloria Tristani in advocating for SB 822, which would in some ways be stronger than the net neutrality rules put in place under President Obama's administration after more than a decade of legal and political wrangling. Those rules required equal treatment of all internet traffic, and prohibited the establishment of internet slow and fast lanes. Wiener's bill would also prohibit "zero rating," in which internet providers exempt certain content, sites and services from data caps. In addition, it would prohibit public agencies in the state from signing contracts with ISPs that violate net neutrality principles, and call for internet service providers to be transparent about their practices and offerings.

46 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Glad California joining WA and OR by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Net Neutrality ftw!

    Nobody cares about the flyover states, right?

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Glad California joining WA and OR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Flyover states just believe what they are told to believe by Fox News and political talk radio.

      Net Neutrality is un-American, anti-Capitalist, socialistic and something that Obama Liberals losers created. Therefore; they hate it.

    2. Re:Glad California joining WA and OR by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

      Flyover states just believe what they are told to believe by Fox News and political talk radio

      There are people who uncritically accept Fox News in pretty much every state. Some states in "Flyover" areas have substantial liberal populations. Colorado and Iowa are both examples.

    3. Re:Glad California joining WA and OR by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Nobody cares about the flyover states, right?

      They get to care about themselves. NN not going to be a thing at a federal level because of all the states voting R. If they want to have it at a state level it's up to them. The D's tried to vote someone in who wouldn't fuck everything up and didn't succeed. Now they're concentrating on looking after themselves at a state level. If R's want those protections, perhaps they should oh I don't know, vote against people who want tear them down to make way for corporate oligopilys.

      So yeah, if the flyover states won't care about themselves why should Californians care about them?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  2. You're welcome by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    California: showing the rest of the US how to do it since 1850.

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    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:You're welcome by DCFusor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And FWIW as an actual conservative (rather than some alt-right wing nut) - I'm all for the kind of net neutrality Wheeler surprised us with. I'm old enough to remember all kinds of fearful comments about Wheeler here and on Ars (and Groklaw) because of his cable lobbyist background.
      Seems some people need to remember that politics is the entertainment branch of the military industrial complex - on a good day.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    2. Re:You're welcome by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Isn't California on the verge of going broke and taxing itself to death?

      No. California has a big budget surplus.

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/j...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:You're welcome by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      No. California has a big budget surplus.

      Does that include all those pensions they're supposed to be (and would be required to be, if they were a business) setting aside money for?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:You're welcome by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I don't agree with everything Brown says or does (I voted against the high-speed rail project and am dubious at best about the Delta Tunnels), but I voted for Brown, and overwhelmingly so I don't regret that and will actually be sad to see him go -- and am a bit apprehensious about what happens next.

    5. Re:You're welcome by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      No, that wasn't Jerry Brown; you're thinking of Reagan, he was the California governor that ran up record deficits. Remember, Republicans only accuse the Democrats of things the Republicans themselves are doing!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    6. Re:You're welcome by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      No, you're thinking of the USPS; they're the ones that have a problem with funding their pensions.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    7. Re:You're welcome by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Governor Moonbeam isn't perfect, but compared to scumbags like Pete Wilson he's a godsend. Schwarzeneggar was one of the few decent "Republican" governors of California, in my opinion. Reagan ran up massive deficits as governor of California just like he did as president of the US.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    8. Re:You're welcome by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      Isn't California on the verge of going broke and taxing itself to death?

      If it keeps you and your friends from moving here? Yes. Broke. Taxing itself to death. Daily earthquakes/landslides/wildfires. Forced conversion to homosexuality when you visit a beach. You do not want to move there.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    9. Re: You're welcome by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      States rights is an outdated racist doctrine. It's wrong to have 50 different state laws when one federal law will do. You've been tricked by Trump into supporting his position that citizens should do it themselves rather than depend on the government. I thought Californians were smarter than that?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    10. Re:You're welcome by kqs · · Score: 1

      I'm old enough to remember all kinds of fearful comments about Wheeler here and on Ars (and Groklaw) because of his cable lobbyist background.

      And "Dingo" Wheeler's initial actions proved those fears correct. But then people objected, and (wonder of wonders) Wheeler listened and learned and reversed course. And we got a rational policy.

      Compare to Pai's methods. "FCC hears ya. FCC don't care."

  3. According to some reports the ISPs by H3lldr0p · · Score: 4, Interesting

    are shitting themselves in fear and have begun dumping a ton of lobbying money into the capital. They've likely screwed themselves much as they did in court before the FCC dropped their action against them. By arguing out both sides of their mouth and also through their ass, they've put themselves into the unenviable position of dealing with a patchwork of laws instead of a single set of regulations. It's not as if this was an unforeseen outcome. It's quite the opposite given public opinion on the issue.

    However, for reasons of nothing but plain insatiable greed the biggest ISPs decided to try anyway.

    1. Re:According to some reports the ISPs by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      This patchwork of laws will make it tough for national ISPs to enjoy economies of scale, and easier for small mom&pop ISPs to compete with them.

      So what's the downside?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    2. Re:According to some reports the ISPs by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Well, sure. ISPs want the 'service' they provide to be treated like some Boutique Service, not the public utility the Internet has become, so they can charge everyone up the ass for it and expect a 'thank you' from us while we're being anally violated. They know damned well though that those days are numbered and are fighting against the inevitable.

  4. They're way ahead of you California by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    There's already Federal bills working their way through Congress to preempt yours. Internet is a global thing, at the very least it needs to be regulated nationally.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:They're way ahead of you California by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.

      This is exactly how the U.S. works, or at least used to. Its not up to the federal government to regulate everything.

      Imagine Federal livery regulation instead of State and City regulation of said industries. You know it would have a bad outcome. Everyone does. Yet in the past 50 or so years there has been a big push to federalize everything, including and especially things like health insurance. I bring up health insurance because Californians were a big player in Federalizing it into a monstrosity of bad outcomes, yet still buries State-wide universal healthcare bills. Even the Unions (Nurses Union especially) are hating on the Democrats in California now

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:They're way ahead of you California by tomhath · · Score: 1

      And it should be regulated by law, not at the whim of a president. Which is why it's playing out the way it is.

    3. Re:They're way ahead of you California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      States' rights*!!

      *except when it's someone else's rights I want to take away

      -Conservatives

    4. Re:They're way ahead of you California by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 2

      Federal Regulations come about when corporations prove themselves unable to be trusted.

      I would prefer the States handle this but the telcoms have already made a lot of noise about suing in Federal court to prevent regulation by the states.

      They cannot be trusted to regulate themselves. As long as Trump/Verizon's Toadie is in charge of the FCC, they're useless. Legislative capture. The fox in charge of the henhouse. Should be a treasonable act to set things up so.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
  5. Humble (Ajit) Pie by cahuenga · · Score: 2

    I love the fact that (THOSE GUYS) are now arguing for national regulation.

    1. Re:Humble (Ajit) Pie by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      The parties are on opposite sides of the political philosophy so important to them in other contexts.

      For that matter, had the Obama rules remained in place, and some state come up with Trump's rules, and tried indignany to roll them out, well, I doubt the dems would be bleating for states' rights, and the republicans for federal domination.

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      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  6. The Bill is in Danger of Being Seriously Weakened by Puk · · Score: 5, Informative

    A Senate committee recommended serious cuts to the bill:
    https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2018/04/california-senate-committee-recommends-cutting-key-net-neutrality-protections

    And, of course, the ISPs have been fighting the bill _hard_:
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/att-and-cable-lobby-are-terrified-of-a-california-net-neutrality-bill/

    If you're in CA and you support effective net neutrality legislation, let your local legislators know you want the original bill.

  7. What a nice guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I would like to meet California Bill and shake his hand!

  8. Unless the description is wrong, this is bad by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

    Those rules required equal treatment of all internet traffic

    Please tell me my phone call packets can still get precedence over pornhub traffic.

    1. Re:Unless the description is wrong, this is bad by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      Why should they? How is your conversation more important than someone else's porn? Packets is packets - besides, if your network is experiencing enough congestion to not get voice packets through in a timely manner, you've got more trouble than people streaming porn.

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      That is all.
  9. Can't restore by tomhath · · Score: 1, Funny

    Neutrality was never in effect.

  10. What's wrong with zero rating? by viperidaenz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's worked quite well in NZ before.

    Currently we have zero rating available for mobile customers, you can buy a "socialiser" pack for your mobile plan, so Facebook et al. don't count towards your data caps.

    Many many years ago I had a cable plan where NZ traffic was counted at 10%, so if you used local services (back in the day where DC++ was popular) and you effectively had 10x your data limit. Most local traffic between ISPs went through free peer exchanges while international traffic was costly for ISP's.

    I'm sure there are ISP's that offer other zero rating plans for the likes of TV streaming.

    I guess it would be different if an ISP had a monopoly in any area, but wholesale and retail has been split by with government regulation. Any ISP can serve any customer, whether it's via DSL or Fibre. It's only wireless ISP's that run their physical networks.

    1. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because if everyone does it then in order to get to the real internet you have to pay a lot of money.

      As a customer you end up paying your contract (with a tiny data cap), plus the "social" bundle for Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, the "entertainment" bundle for Netflix, Hulu and Spotify, the "navigation" bundle for Google Maps, and the "information" bundle for Google Search, Bing and Yahoo.

      If you want to use wikipedia, well that comes out of your general data cap. Same if you want to use Hulu or Foursquare or dischord. They have to pay the ISP to be included in the right bundle, see, and you have to pay the ISP for that bundle.

      But wait, there's more fun: in a lot of countries, the companies who own the internet access area also media companies. So if I want to watch Sky Sports on-demand then hooray, that's zero-rated! But if I want to watch the BBC sports coverage, that will cost me.

      The whole "net neutrality" thing isn't about network performance or peering agreements. There are already plenty of ISP-level mechanisms in place to mitigate having to pull data across continents (lots of content companies offer to supply local caches of their data to national ISPs for just this purpose). Net neutrality is about stopping data network operators from being able to control which specific services people can use (by making their own/their partner's services free/much cheaper than competitors) and to charge twice for the same bandwidth (you and the content company). In the USA it's particularly egregious, because they are actually demanding to be allowed to charge three times: once to the customer, once to the content supplier and once to the government who already paid tens of billions in subsidies to build out networks to make bandwidth available to connect customers and suppliers, which the telecoms monopolies spent on dividends and bonuses instead. That US broadband customers have extremely limited or zero choice of providers just means that the providers can abuse the shit out of them, and there is literally nothing the customer can do short of moving house or doing without the internet.

    2. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Zero-rating doesn't mean "free", it means "included in the price you're already paying". If you want something that isn't included in the price you're already paying, then you should expect to pay for it.

      Zero-rating isn't an add-on I can choose or refuse. It's not 'buy this meal and get drinks free'. It's something I have to pay for if I want basic internet access, disguised by the marketing department as 'free' because it's rolled into the basic package.

      No one's complaining about having to pay for what they ask for, or for what they want. They're upset at anti-competitive behavior masquerading as 'but it's free!'.

    3. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Zero-rating is anti-competitive. That "socialiser" pack doesn't include any upstart social networks or distributed ones; it entrenches the existing players at the cost of innovation, competition, and openness.

      I was recently on an airplane where they charged for internet except zero-rating for a small number of IM services. So people who fly a lot are likely to prefer those services. And IM services have network effects, so the people those people want to talk to have to also be using those services to actually be useful, so that means those services are getting even more influence than it appears from this zero-rating.

    4. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      I'll field this one.

      So, eliminating Net Neutrality was never about maximizing Internet profit from consumers. In fact, consumers would likely benefit (at first), because they're the ones with the power. They're the ones the telcos don't want to piss off.

      Internet prices might even fall (in the short-term) as part of an appeasement strategy.

      The real money is in charging the established content providers a premium for access to consumers.

      Take Spotify, for example. If Net Neutrality is eliminated, Spotify and all of the carriers will most likely collude to offer NZ metering (possibly even free to the consumer) for their service, encouraging many consumers to switch to Spotify. Spotify, of course, then increases their prices by a few dollars, split with the carriers. Consumers are annoyed, but they don't make the connection.

      SuperTunesPlus attempts to enter the market, offering great new features at a lower price. However, not only do the carriers not want their money, SuperTunesPlus can't afford to pay the protection fee anyway. Consumers, having to pay bandwidth fees for SuperTunesPlus, decide they're better off with the established player, and SuperTunesPlus suffers greatly. They hold on just long enough for the carriers to slow their traffic, causing persistent buffering issues. The last of their customers leave, and they go bankrupt.

      Picking winners and losers in the market - that's what the anti-NN movement is about.

      Who cares? Well, in a US without Net Neutrality protections, the next YouTube, Spotify, Google, Uber, or Amazon will likely be invented in China, Canada, France, or Japan. The world is a big place, and while it sucks not being able to serve American customers, it sucks worse trying to build a business when you can't even count on the network to function properly. Over the long-term (say, 20 years), silicon valley will become a power base of large, expensive, established, and inefficient American-only companies, while tech leadership will migrate out to the rest of the world.

      There is still time to fix this, though.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    5. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Zero-rating isn't an add-on I can choose or refuse. It's not 'buy this meal and get drinks free'.

      Which is it -- something you didn't choose or something that comes as part of the package? "Buy a meal and get the water free" is a package, just like zero-rating with some ISP services is. You don't have to use the zero-rating services, so yes, you do get a choice, just like you can say "I don't want the free drink."

      No one's complaining about having to pay for what they ask for, or for what they want.

      The person I replied to did exactly that regarding BBC sports feeds, and it was because other people get something included in their service. He gets it too but doesn't want it. He wants something else that he has to pay for, and therefore other people should have to pay for Sky. (And by "pay for it", I mean "pay for the data", of course.)

      Also, it's called an "analogy" because it isn't an "identity", and there will be differences. No, an ISP is not a restaurant, but both offer services that patrons are expected to pay for and services that come as part of other things. Zero-rating is one of the latter. It happens in all kinds of things. I don't want Comcast email with my Comcast internet, but it's there if I do and I'm not forced to use it. It costs me money, and I have to pay someone else for the service I do use. I would be selfish to demand that Comcast stop offering email just because I don't want it and I have to pay for it elsewhere. When I get an oil change, I also get a coupon for a free car wash. I don't want it, I don't use it, it costs me money, and I have to pay someone else if I want to get it from them. Same thing.

      To the AC who claims trolling: it's an opinion I hold that differs from yours. Learn the difference.

      Also, learn the difference between shooting down one argument in favor of something and arguing that it's a good thing with no downsides. When you make selfish arguments like this one about something that most people find useful and valuable, they tune you out. You're arguing against their better interests. You need to have an argument that shows it isn't in their interest, and "you need to pay for yours because I have to pay for something different" isn't it.

    6. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      I never mentioned slowing traffic. I was talking solely about zero rating.

      In a market where wholesale and retail are separated, you literally have dozens of ISP's (even in this little country of less than 5 million people)
      Zero rating becomes a differentiator for the ISP's, not a tool for Big Media to cut out the little guy. Big Media would need to engage in anti-competitive behaviour with multiple companies, greatly increasing their risk of being caught and prosecuted or publicly outed if they did it through a loophole.

    7. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by sjames · · Score: 1

      I WISH ISPs were like restaurants. Because then there would be dozens to choose from AND I would have the option to roll my own at home too.

      To make your analogy work, there would have to be no more than one or two restaurants available, no grocery stores, and hunting, fishing, and growing a vegetable garden all illegal.

      Meanwhile, THE restaurant (or BOTH) offer reasonably priced food, but then there's the table fee, the utensil fee (charged by the bite) the air fee, the door fee, of course a fee for walking on the floor, etc.

      Finally, there's a surcharge if they don't like what you do with the energy you gain from eating food.

    8. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      But why even take the risk?

      People/governments around the world should lay this one out crystal clear: carriers, you will serve our will, or we will delete you, arrest your CEO, and seize your assets for the common good.

      It is our land, and they are our airwaves. Not yours. Carriers, you exist at our behest.

      There is a shitton of money to be made by serving the telecommunication needs the citizens of a modern nation.

      That should be enough. And, if carriers can't act in good faith, there's no reason for us, the people, to allow them right of way, or access to our radio spectrum.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    9. Re:What's wrong with zero rating? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      You've missed the point entirely

      NZ has a market where an ISP can do what they please. There is little barrier to entry for new ISP's.
      If they do things people don't like, their customers will switch. Last time I switched I was without internet access for only 5 minutes while I swapped routers.
      I switched because a competitor offered a cheaper, faster service.

      The key is no artificial barriers for new ISP's and a clear separation between wholesale and retail.

      You bleating on about arresting CEO's, deleting companies and seizing assets makes you appear to be a moron, so I'm not surprised you don't understand.

  11. Perfect !!! by Tulsa_Time · · Score: 1

    The 10th amendment works as designed !!!

    --
    5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
  12. Re:In 5-10 years... by sjames · · Score: 1

    Nah, they'll just build out municipal broadband that's ten times as fast for half the price.

    That's when those same carriers that won't touch the state with a ten foot pole will run crying to Uncle Sam and moan about unfair competition (in a market they refuse to enter).

  13. Re:In 5-10 years... by mi · · Score: 1

    Nah, they'll just build out municipal broadband that's ten times as fast for half the price.

    Yeah, because all of the earlier governmental undertaking proved so superior to private enterprises. To wit:

    Yeah, let's build even more success on that glorious track-record — all the while letting the governments know even more about our online behavior and policing any misbehavior not as ToS-violations, but as civil infractions. What can possibly go wrong?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  14. Re:In 5-10 years... by sjames · · Score: 1

    OTOH, municipal broadband has consistently kicked private offering's asses in spite of having to fight lawsuits and captured state legislatures just to exist.

    Public transit works OK for the level of funding it sees. In many cases, semi-privatization is what ails it. Care to point to a fully private service that doesn't suck or cost too much for most people using public transit?

    Show me those private roads paved with gold!

  15. Re:In 5-10 years... by mi · · Score: 1

    OTOH, municipal broadband has consistently kicked private offering's asses

    Citations needed.

    in spite of having to fight lawsuits

    Local governments wield undue powers over Internet-service provision. To allow them to compete with private providers is to enable corruption on an even worse scale. There is nothing magical about it — the same group of people setting up the local ISP could do it regardless of whether they are incorporated as a private entity or a town government's department. If they "kick ass" as the latter, that's evidence, that something did not let them do the same as a former. Socialism tends to cause this kind of corruption because it reduces (and eventually eliminates) competition.

    Care to point to a fully private service that doesn't suck or cost too much for most people using public transit?

    We do not have private public transit, unfortunately. I wish we did, but we don't — not in the US. Tokyo has competing subway lines, but American cities do not — not in the traditional sense. But, if you count Uber and Lyft, then your request is answered. They are cheap and people prefer them so strongly:

    One study included surveys of 944 ride-hailing users over four weeks in late 2017 in the Boston area. Nearly six in 10 said they would have used public transportation, walked, biked or skipped the trip if the ride-hailing apps weren’t available.

    big-government socialists blame them for the ever dropping popularity of public transit:

    “Ride sharing is pulling from and not complementing public transportation”

    Now, try WiFi on the government-owned Amtrak for a personal preview of what government-provided Internet-service will be like. Meanwhile, privately-offered LTE consistently works. Oh, yes, it costs more — but you were willing to excuse poor performance by inadequate funding, so, yeah, pay more for the LTE.

    So, yes, the point stands — whatever government does, is done poorly. So poorly, people even suggesting, yet another aspect of our lives should be handled by the kind and omniscient government instead of by greedy and selfish KKKapitali$sts, should be strongly suspected of not just stupidity and ignorance, but of criminal conspiracy to defraud the rest of us too.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  16. Re:In 5-10 years... by sjames · · Score: 1

    The AC post is mine. Sorry about that, /. apparently decided to forget I was logged in even as I was typing the reply.