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Scientists Plan Huge European AI Hub To Compete With US (theguardian.com)

Leading scientists have drawn up plans for a vast multinational European institute devoted to world-class artificial intelligence (AI) research in a desperate bid to nurture and retain top talent in Europe. From a report: The new institute would be set up for similar reasons as Cern, the particle physics lab near Geneva, which was created after the second world war to rebuild European physics and reverse the brain drain of the brightest and best scientists to the US. Named the European Lab for Learning and Intelligent Systems, or Ellis, the proposed AI institute would have major centres in a handful of countries, the UK included, with each employing hundreds of computer engineers, mathematicians and other scientists with the express aim of keeping Europe at the forefront of AI research. In an open letter that urges governments to act, the scientists describe how Europe has not kept up with the US and China, where the vast majority of leading AI firms and universities are based. The letter adds that while a few "research hotspots" still exist in Europe, "virtually all of the top people in those places are continuously being pursued for recruitment by US companies."

69 comments

  1. Advertise the 25 hour workweeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The world will beat a path to your door.

  2. incentives by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 2

    Are they going to have "computer programmer's motivator's?

  3. Please define AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we talking about image recognition algorithms, or self aware software.

    1. Re:Please define AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably just the generic "self-learning" sort that they feed a large set of training data and expect it to extrapolate from.

      That would include "image recognition"... and arguably "self-awareness", if it had a half-way decent definition.

  4. https://robothutbui.vn by robothutbui · · Score: 1
  5. Font problem AI vs Al by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why to modern standard fonts not distinguish between "I" (eye) and "l" (el).

    There is a difference between Al Bundy and AI Bundy.

    1. Re:Font problem AI vs Al by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1, Informative

      Digital fonts tends to be Sans Serif. This means glyphs such as one (1), uppercase i (I), lowercase L (l), tend to be very difficult to visually tell apart. It sucks.

      Print fonts tend to be Serif -- glyphs are easier to tell apart but they also take up more space.

      There are reasons we have Programming fonts -- which tend to be a hybrid between Serif and Sans Serif. Why? We need the ability to be able to quickly visually distinguish between similar glyphs.

      Set 1: zero and O: O, o, 0
      Set 2: one, I, and L: 1 I i L l
      Set 3: five and S: 5 S s
      Set 4: two and Z: 2 Z z
      Set 5: parenthesis and brackets: ( { [ ] } )

      Also due to crappy "low resolutions" monitors (anything less then 300 dpi), Sans Serif fonts are much easier to read, and they take up less screen space.
      i.e. Pixel Fonts tend to be sans serif due to physically not having enough pixels for details -- the serifs.

      If you want more details I've posted about Serif vs Sans Serif before.

      You can also read about Typeface anatomy

      Getting this back on-topic ...

      The term A.I. is a bullshit term. It should be called Artificial Ignorance, or Algorithmic Table-Lookup because there is no fucking intelligence in there; in contradistinction to a.i. = actual intelligence. Take the worlds best Go/Chess program, change the rules of the game slightly, and watch it crash-and-burn. Where is all the intelligence it learnt? Oh wait, there is ZERO. It needs to play thousands of games to rebuild its tables.

      At least the term Machine Learning isn't as obnoxious, plus the acronym, ML, is readable regardless if you use a Serif or Sans Serif typeface.

      --
      Atheist, noun; a blind man arguing there is no proof of color.
      Theist, noun; a monochromatic man arguing their color is the only valid color.

  6. Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a joke.

  7. How will this help? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the problem is that overseas companies pay more for AI experts, adding academic jobs won't solve it. Of course it will help European research institutions, but that is not the problem. European countries need to convince or create incentives for domestic companies to pay more to attract AI talent.

    1. Re:How will this help? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, soon, "hey, we're not the U.S.A." will be more than enough incentive.

  8. This is what Europeans do best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is what Europeans do best: Plan it. They will have very impressive plans, committees, and meetings. Much more extensive and impressive than anything that China or the US will do. They will translate it into 24 languages, and meticulously ensure that the meaning is exact in all of them.

    On the other hand when it actually comes to doing it....

    1. Re:This is what Europeans do best by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      They will translate it into 24 languages

      Perhaps they can get the AI to do that.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:This is what Europeans do best by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      They will translate it into 24 languages

      Perhaps they can get the AI to do that.

      Add that idea to the appendix, translate, distribute, and discuss!

    3. Re:This is what Europeans do best by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      ... snipsnip... On the other hand when it actually comes to doing it....

      CERN

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    4. Re:This is what Europeans do best by vakuona · · Score: 1

      CERN does research that the private sector wouldn't do.

      AI is something the private sector is all over at the moment.

      What is likely to happen is that the EU will legislate / regulate to make it difficult for anyone to do anything useful with AI, while the Americans (and Chinese) build up an unassailable lead in the technology.

      The US will let companies experiment and then regulate later while the EU will kill everything by regulating them to death first.

  9. Learn from the Past by LordAba · · Score: 1

    You want "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream"? Cause this is how you get it.

    1. Re:Learn from the Past by sheramil · · Score: 1

      I think this scenario is closer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      That is, if the Russians, Iranians, Indians etc all join in.

  10. "haven't kept up with the US" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes we have, but any time any company invents interesting tech in Europe, one of the US tech giants snaps it up with their infinite funds.

    Google's A.I./M.L., DeepMind, is based on tech invented and still run by a UK company, for example. You might have heard of them:

    https://deepmind.com/about/

    1. Re:"haven't kept up with the US" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They might need to have people working in the EU though, because the EU is very likely to regulate some AI use to protect its citizens. Stuff like AIs making decisions about people's lives, such as mortgage and job applications, is already under scrutiny.

      That could also be a problem for the UK post-Brexit, because without regulatory alignment with the EU it will face the same problem as the US.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:"haven't kept up with the US" by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      They might need to have people working in the EU though, because the EU is very likely to regulate some AI use to protect its citizens. Stuff like AIs making decisions about people's lives, such as mortgage and job applications, is already under scrutiny.

      That could also be a problem for the UK post-Brexit, because without regulatory alignment with the EU it will face the same problem as the US.

      It will be business as usual - the UK government will draw red lines, will issue lofty patriotic communiqués, will claim that Britain rules the waves - and then will just pull its trousers down and will do as the EU tells it to do.

  11. Don't worry Europeans by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

    Hey, not to worry, Daddy USA will drag you along for the ride and let you share in the scraps. For some reason that I don't understand, America subsidizes the defense of wealthy, developed European countries to the tune of billions per year, and we get to pay Europe the kingly sum of $150 billion every year for the privilege of trading with them. I once tried to insult Europeans by calling them vassals, only to have it rudely pointed out to me that vassals pay tribute to their protectors, not the other way around! So don't worry, big Daddy USA will take you along for the ride for free while neglecting the welfare of his own people, just like he always does for some baffling reason.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, not to worry, Daddy USA will drag you along for the ride and let you share in the scraps. For some reason that I don't understand, America subsidizes the defense of wealthy, developed European countries to the tune of billions per year, and we get to pay Europe the kingly sum of $150 billion every year for the privilege of trading with them. I once tried to insult Europeans by calling them vassals, only to have it rudely pointed out to me that vassals pay tribute to their protectors, not the other way around! So don't worry, big Daddy USA will take you along for the ride for free while neglecting the welfare of his own people, just like he always does for some baffling reason.

      I seem to recall Trump saying that this was going to end.

      Maybe he'll actually act on that, but I doubt he really has that much authority.

    2. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you know who is the vassal.

    3. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bernie will end it. Stealing IP from the drug companies will end medical research. Hope the cure for whatever will ail you has already been found.

    4. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      America subsidizes the defense of wealthy, developed European countries to the tune of billions per year...

      By invading the wrong countries. I suppose you could argue that any military system is subject to a percentage of bad judgment, and that dumb mistakes are part of the game.

    5. Re:Don't worry Europeans by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Are you trying to use whataboutism to distract from the point that the USA subsidizes the wealthy First World nations of Europe? Can anyone tell me why? There's no reason for it, Europe can well afford its own defense and America is being crippled by out of control military spending.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      For the most part, they didn't ask for our help. Maybe if our military wasn't so big, they'd willingly increase theirs.

    7. Re:Don't worry Europeans by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Europe likes things just as they are - free defense, and they can use the massive money saved to fund a welfare state for their people. And the really cool part is that they get to sit on their high horse and criticize the Americans for being baby-killing militaristic fascist monsters for having a military. The military that defends them. It's a sweet deal and I can see why they like it.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    8. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's ironic that you believe the US is Europe's father despite you being beholden to us, and that you misunderstood what a vassal is, which implies Americans are actually the vassals by your own logic.

      You've not considered the obvious possibility that would answer all your questions, that you're actually Europe's bitch, that American exceptionalism is a lie, and that you need Europe way more than it needs you. Whilst you were burning all your bridges with the rest of the world, such as the Middle East, South America, Africa, China, and so on, Europe has been building bridges, now you're all alone with no one else to stand by you but Europe, and that's why you're our bitch.

    9. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Maybe they believe the USA exaggerates threats; that Fox News et. al. have made everyone paranoid. I won't confirm or deny that claim here, only say the perception exists in Europe.

    10. Re:Don't worry Europeans by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

      Why should America protect a stable continent of wealthy democracies? Europe is ruthlessly free-riding on American security and laughing all the way to the bank. Why the U.S. should remain so involved in a defense effort that so many Europeans are backing away from is beyond me.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    11. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Then don't. Let's slash our military. Solved!

    12. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, not to worry, Daddy USA will drag you along for the ride and let you share in the scraps. For some reason that I don't understand, America subsidizes the defense of wealthy, developed European countries to the tune of billions per year

      I'm afraid you have been misinformed. US subisidy to European defence budgets added up a grand total of €0 last year, just like in the years before. On the other hand, some European countries subisidise the US economy by buying overpriced military equipment (e.g. the F-35) from the US.

      we get to pay Europe the kingly sum of $150 billion every year for the privilege of trading with them

      Then you have been hiding those payments very well. I'd like to see the receipt.

      I once tried to insult Europeans by calling them vassals, only to have it rudely pointed out to me that vassals pay tribute to their protectors, not the other way around!

      Europe pays protection money to the US in the form of being coerced into trade deals that heavily favour the US, having to fight along with wars started by the US around the globe and having to put up with continuous US meddling in internal affairs.

      So don't worry, big Daddy USA will take you along for the ride for free while neglecting the welfare of his own people, just like he always does for some baffling reason.

      Just imagine for a bit how crappy life would be for Americans if any of the things you made up were actually true. I think you need to find better excuses for how poorly the US treats its own citizens.

    13. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you trying to use whataboutism to distract from the point that the USA subsidizes the wealthy First World nations of Europe?

      The point is that that claim is facually untrue.

      Europe can well afford its own defense and America is being crippled by out of control military spending.

      Europe never asked for the US to have a ridicilously oversized military and I don't really see how they benefit from it. US warmongering around the world causes plenty of problems Europe has to deal with too.

    14. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to really like providing confirmation for the stereotype that Americans are stupid, misinformed and arrogant. Why?

    15. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should America protect a stable continent of wealthy democracies?

      Because they are NOT stable! Never have been. It is occupation that provides the illusion of peace for the last 73 years. The Brits and the Frogs can sleep with both eyes closed (for the most part). It would all go up in smoke the moment the Americans pull out. Their bullshit nationalism/feudalism is already on the rise, like the great magma dome underneath Yellowstone. You're right about European smugness, but it's a dead cat distraction. The simple fact of the matter is that protection of Europe is good for business. Get all those political cobwebs out of your head. That shit exists to obscure the truth, if that is what you are looking for.

    16. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      allow germans develop nuclear arsenal. You won't hear a word from us anymore.

    17. Re: Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Germans don't want a nuclear arsenal.

    18. Re: Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course germans want it.
      If some socialist politicians do not want it, that does not mean that all germans don't want nuclear arsenal.

      The french nuclear bombs were built partly in german factories ...

    19. Re:Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All your soldiers will be unemployed and all your defense contractors bankrupt?
      No, the real reason is that all that pork will be missing come election time.

    20. Re: Don't worry Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nuclear weapons are deeply unpopular in Germany and they wouldn't be very useful for the country's defence. Moreover, Germany is allied with several countries that have nuclear weapons and it participates in NATO weapons sharing.

  12. HTML! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last time Europe set up a particle physics lab it came up with... HTML!

    (Although I doubt that the current cutthroat climate in "science" will allow something like this).

  13. Why compete with the folks in second? by schwit1 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    1. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      China has shot far ahead of the US on deep-learning patents

      More patents just mean they will lack behind in innovation as they are innovation inhibitors and not much else these days.

    2. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by mikael · · Score: 1

      I believe they have patented a technique for sending the magnetic and electrical field information of a photon from one point to another but without actually sending the actual photon itself. However, this method is still limited by the speed of light.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    4. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      About patents: I hold two or three patents myself. I vividly remember when I wrote my first disclosure. It was brief, to the point; the idea was clearly and unambiguously described in two pages, that anyone with a basic background on the subject could understand without much of a problem. I then turned it over to patent lawyer. A couple of weeks later I got the text of the patent application from the lawyer. I could not understand it. I was the originator of the idea, and could not understand what the patent application was all about. Written in a vague, confusing language, the document was impenetrable to me. To the person who came up with the original idea. Maybe somebody more intelligent than me would have been able to study the text of the application and make use of my my idea - I certainly would not have been able to do so. That was the day that I lost all my faith in the patent system. Through management pressure, I have written a few other disclosures - but I have not reviewed the subsequent applications ever since. What for? I wouldn't be able to understand them, anyway.

    5. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About patents: I hold two or three patents myself. I vividly remember when I wrote my first disclosure.

      You vividly remember writing your first disclosure, but you don't remember exactly how many patents you hold? Tell us more, Professor Farnsworth!

    6. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    7. Re:Why compete with the folks in second? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  14. You're doing it wrong! by tphb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You don't need huge institutes and government funding to do AI. The major government-sponsored AI initiatives have been largely wasted, whereas commercial AI is getting serious traction.

    1. Re:You're doing it wrong! by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      You don't need huge institutes and government funding to do AI.

      Off course you do. At the very least for those "innovative" commercial tech followers.

      There was a nice program about the use of algorithms in dutch TV about the bias these algorithms get from their historical input. So algorithms were seen as neutral, but discriminated at least as hard as humans did.

      What the program forgot to mention is that "lower class" people don't order for these algorithms, and the "upper class" people who do order them don't want to be bitten by them. The perfect example is China, where you are punished for ignoring a traffic light, but not for grabbing all the power.

      The main problem of AI is the hidden agenda of the humans that order them.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    2. Re:You're doing it wrong! by monkeyxpress · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Europe doesn't have the same sort of venture capital culture as the US. Even in London there is no Sand Hill equivalent where you can rock on up with your MIT degree and Tony Robins positive energy and walk out with a few million to start you cat tracker app.

      There are a huge number of UK startups and university spinoffs that run off angel money that requires the CEO to periodically attend snooty events with the remnants of Europe's landed gentry, or do deals with dodgy foreigners trying to laundering money. Those that get VC money are getting it from the offshoots of US firms, or even just through US firms directly with Delaware registered HQs to boot. Another approach is to convince some ageing celebrity (e.g. Richard Branson) to lend his name to your idea, so you can list on the exchanges and get a bunch of money from desperate pension funds.

      For whatever reason, the USA seems to embrace the idea that throwing $1000 at 20 different crazy ideas is worth it on the chance that one succeeds, whereas in most other countries there needs to be a big investigation and lynching when one single $1000 investment fails.

      This is why the EU needs public sector investment for this sort of stuff. In some EU countries the method has actually delivered results, while in others (e.g. UK) I suspect the public is just so conditioned to accept government incompetence that this is just a sort of path of least resistance thing.

    3. Re:You're doing it wrong! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The major government-sponsored AI initiatives have been largely wasted

      You mean like all of the publicly funded university research which kicked off the entire field?

    4. Re:You're doing it wrong! by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      Serious traction? That's yet to be seen. The stuff that they have come up so far is, for the most part, an extension of notions that have been known and understood for decades, made to look more spectacular thanks to the increased computational power developed since. But Alexa, Google Home (or whatever it is called today) and Siri are pretty much as unintelligent as such things have always been, and only marginally useful; Watson is good at Jeopardy, but not much else so far, and the chess and go engines can't do anything outside go and chess.

    5. Re:You're doing it wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would mark you up if I could. Much of the AI talk has been always about pulling in more investors because "We're developing AI". All this talk about we have to regulate AI from Elon Musk and talk about AI at Facebook is and always has been a great marketing ploy from billionaires that has pulled in more investors that they could ever dream of.

      Meanwhile, AI development has always been at the same damn level it has always been two decades ago, no where. There have been zero break troughs in AI research. The book I have of neural nets from 20-30 years ago, still applies today, only works because of increased computational power. Nothing has changed since, I haven't seen any new books of late describing new theories.

      And now they said the theories about neural nets and how the brain works is now all wrong. So give us more money to redevelop our theories!

    6. Re:You're doing it wrong! by Turmio · · Score: 1

      You don't need huge institutes and government funding to do global interconnected network. The major government-sponsored networking initiatives have been largely wasted, whereas commercial global network development efforts is getting serious traction. Just as e.g. the Microsoft of 90's how they beat the Internet. You don't need huge institutes and government funding to put man in the Moon. The major government-sponsored space exploration initiatives have been largely wasted, whereas commercial space travel is getting serious traction. Granted, it's partially (and only partially) true for the current state of affairs in the US, but can you afford to ignore past 70 years + just about everything else done outside of the American soil? Not necessarily a recipe for success and we all know about the pitfalls of large stashes of public money earmarked for something, but just give them a chance, will you. Big things require big backing entities. Sure go ahead if you're Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, FB, Baidu or Alibaba. Sadly, here in Europe we have no companies such as the mentioned.

    7. Re: You're doing it wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of technology companies in Europe that invest heavily in AI, such as Bosch, Siemens, ABB and the car industry.

    8. Re:You're doing it wrong! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Gov't sponsored research often does kick-start new ideas, but the results are usually public knowledge such that it often doesn't directly benefit the sponsoring country. Any country can use the research results.

      Perhaps Europe should focus on increasing and/or subsidizing AI-related education, which includes educating people for private-sector AI work.

  15. Name by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Call it, say .... Skynet.

  16. Colossus: The Forbin Project by forkfail · · Score: 1

    Sounds like there might be a plot for a good movie in here. Oh, wait:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Check your premises.
  17. Only half of the story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There have been two major developments recently, but no journalist seems to have reported both. The scientists have drawn up plans, but European governments have also taken action. Here's the rest of the story: Twenty-four EU countries sign artificial intelligence pact in bid to compete with US and China.

  18. "recruitment by US companies" not that attractive by ffkom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To somebody used to have 30 days of vacation days each year, and 40 hours of work per week, without the expectation to slave away 24/7, those recruitment efforts by US companies are not that attractive.

    I have worked for both US and EU companies, and would always choose the EU quality of life over the vague chance of some large bonus that US companies try to lure people with. Also, the way that US companies patronize their employees is simply awkward. Go away with your "codes of conduct" and all the other corporate crap!

  19. Re:"recruitment by US companies" not that attracti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To somebody used to have 30 days of vacation days each year, and 40 hours of work per week, without the expectation to slave away 24/7, those recruitment efforts by US companies are not that attractive.

    I have worked for both US and EU companies, and would always choose the EU quality of life over the vague chance of some large bonus that US companies try to lure people with. Also, the way that US companies patronize their employees is simply awkward. Go away with your "codes of conduct" and all the other corporate crap!

    Have you tried negotiating? In my experience most are very open to changing the deal so long as you are willing to give something up in the form of a slightly lower paycheck.

  20. wow by fponias · · Score: 1

    An AI article actually about AI. I can die happy now.

  21. Blue Brain II? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope they do better than they did with the Human/Blue Brain projects. Seriously, that whole thing went off the rails big time.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-the-human-brain-project-went-wrong-and-how-to-fix-it/

    No, this isn't some anti-European, anti-Big Science screed. Just saying that learning from your mistakes is good and repeating them is bad. Kind of like the Scientific Method. Learn from those mistakes and do it better next time!

    CERN was a project done right. Human Brain Project was a project done wrong. What were the differences and crucially, which differences were at play in the relative success or failure of each one?

  22. Re:"recruitment by US companies" not that attracti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A higher salary is the one possible benefit of working for a company in the US. If you are giving that away in negotiations, you may as well stay in Europe and not put up with the lower quality of life in the US at all.