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Two Koreas Agree To End War This Year, Pursue Denuclearization (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in agreed Friday to finally end a seven-decade war this year, and pursue the "complete denuclearization" of the Korean Peninsula. Kim and Moon embraced after signing the deal during a historic meeting on their militarized border, the first time a North Korean leader set foot on the southern side. They announced plans to replace the 1953 armistice that ended hostilities with a peace treaty by year's end. Their statement on a "common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearization, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula," stopped short of the "complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization" long sought by the U.S. and its allies. The statement didn't elaborate on what the term meant and Kim didn't personally utter the word during remarks Friday. "We have agreed to share a firm determination to open a new era in which all Korean people enjoy prosperity and happiness on a peaceful land without war," Kim told reporters, without taking questions. President Trump hailed the move, declaring "KOREAN WAR TO END!" on Twitter. He has agreed to meet with Kim at a time and place yet to be determined.
It'll be interesting to see how they negotiate the removal of US forces from South Korea. The US has its biggest bases and airfields in all of Asia over there, and I can't imagine removing them is going to sit well with the Pentagon.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Kim has made a lot of commitments, none of them worth the paper they were printed on. I'll believe it when the inspectors believe it.
we've acknowledged him as the legitimate ruler of North Korea. That's what this was about. As soon as Trump said he'd meet with Kim, Kim won. He doesn't need the nukes any more. He's still got enough firepower to flatten South Korea, so he's still got his hostage situation. The nukes were just a trick to get us to the table and to get us to legitimize his reign. Worked too.
On the one hand I should be upset we're giving approval to yet another dictatorship. On the other hand NK is hardly the first and Trump just got outmaneuvered and lost his shot at an Iraq style war. On the other other hand there's still Iran, and they don't have a hostage to protect them.
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Goaded them on until they neared collapse, and then made them come to the table.
Sometimes the baby wins.
I think you'd have to show there was some intent. If two people are arguing, then a third person runs through the room flinging their poop at the walls and gibbering like a madman, it doesn't automatically mean the poop flinger is a master negotiator just because the argument gets cut short.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump are alpha male Presidents. They defeat their enemies George Bush (all of them), Jimbo Carter, Barack Obama, etc are panty waste girly men.
People are really over-reacting to this - on both sides. It's certainly better news than if the two presidents had walked away from the table shouting "LOCK AND LOAD!" - but, right now, it's just words, and there have been plenty of words before.
Moon isn't an idiot - he's well aware he's got 25 million of his people living in and around a city that's only 35 miles from North Korea. He hasn't committed to much of anything... nor has Kim. "Ending" a war which has effectively been over for 70 years is a symbolic gesture, but little more than that.
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what triggered this is folks think Trump and his Cabinet are crazy enough to actually go to war and let NK make good on their threat to flatten Seoul.
I still don't like this outcome. We've not acknowledged Kim Jun Un's regime as legitimate. At least legally (and practically, since there's plenty of folks who don't follow politics enough to know NK's a monarchy and not a Democracy).
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More like two people arguing whether Kiss or AC/DC is better with Trump coming in as the crazy friend high on LSD asking if he should bash the other guy's skull in. And then it's like "Uh no we're good, they're both good bands... we're friends, see" because I don't think this happened on its own. I think they realized that Trump might actually set off a new Korean war, regardless if that'd fuck both North and South Korea hard. So when push comes to shove they'd rather come to terms, at least while the crazy guy is in the room...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Trump surrounded NK with carriers and flew bombers off the coast. Moreover there are hard hitting sanctions that are harming Kim's ability to keep bribing his generals. This could have been done decades ago, but globalists find North Korea useful as a source of tension. The fact that millions suffer means nothing to them. Trump brought Kim to the table, but naturally nobody wants to give him credit because he's Hitler.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
No, you're supposed to believe that Obama set this all up in perfect stealth mode over a year ago, or that Hillary should get the credit because this would have spontaneously happened on her watch while she was continuing Obama's failed policies.
It’s called negotiation and persuasion. Regardless of whether you agree with him, he has a way of getting under his opponents skins. CNN is still talking about the elections while Trump is changing policies right under our noses.
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People like you said the same BS about Reagan and the dissolution of the USSR: it was all accidental, would've happened anyway, Reagan was an incompetent warmonger, blah blah blah. You simply refuse to grasp that a hardline, belligerent stance backed up with credible threats of military action actually work when facing down tyrannical dictatorships.
Here's what really happened, and none of it was by accident:
1. NK developed their nukes with the intention of saber rattling and getting their way since it's worked so well for the last 70 years.
2. Trump let NK know we can and will turn them into a glowing parking lot if they don't stop doing that.
3. Trump let China know he's quite serious about pushing the Big Red Button on NK and put pressure on China via tariffs, probably with the deal being China pushes NK to start behaving and Trump will remove the tariffs.
4. China values their economic ties with the US far more than anything they're getting from NK, and further NK embarrassed the Chinese leadership with his nuclear testing.
5. China, seeing it in their best interests to reign in NK, told them they wouldn't step in if Trump pushed the Big Red Button and Kim finally figured out he's playing with something that will get him burned. China also probably threatened severe economic pressure on NK if they continued to misbehave.
6. NK, unable to survive economically without China and unable to withstand a US military without Chinese backing, wisely decided it's time to come to the the peace table before things get out of control.
Even you ought to be able to put the pieces together. Trump visits China. Then Kim visits China. Shortly thereafter Kim changes its stance. Only a fool would consider this accidental. Trump leaned on China and China leaned on Kim. This is something Obama could've easily done -- and maybe earned a Nobel instead of being given one for "participation" -- but was too naive to do. But no doubt had this happened on his watch you'd have given him full credit and claimed him a master politician. But since it happened on Trump's watch it has to be accidental, right? Can't give Trump credit. That might validate his ideology and invalidate yours and that simply can't be allowed.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Do you always judge people not by the content of their actions and words, but by what you think they think?
Admit it to yourself that if Obama, or Hillary, or literally anyone else did the exact same things Trump did in the exact same ways Trump did you would be posting praise instead of condemnation.
She's more useful not being in jail. Imprison her and she becomes a martyr. Right now she's a washed-up has-been that's so toxic even Democrats don't want anything to do with her anymore.
Trust me, the sting of losing to Trump and having to live in political exile having never eclipsed her philandering husband's name is far more punishing than any cell could ever be.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
what triggered this is folks think Trump and his Cabinet are crazy enough to actually go to war and let NK make good on their threat to flatten Seoul.
No! What really triggered this is folks think Trump is literally Hitler!
(Gotta love the gymnastics people are attempting, just to put Trump in a bad light here.)
The reality is that he probably doesn't even care about the Nobel prize - he probably viewed North Korea as another problem to fix, and went and fixed it. Next up: Iran.
My take, after watching his actions over the past couple of years, is that he doesn't actually care what people think or say about him.
So please tell us how he's flinging poo everywhere, has no plan and doesn't think and doesn't read and is stupid and immature and is literally Hitler...
For the world.
Nothing you've posted suggests that Trump was doing anything other than being a belligerent asshole rather than acting like one as part of a cunning plan.
And nothing you've observed has made a dent in that hardened cranium of yours to make you understand that Kim wouldn't have buckled to anyone except a belligerent asshole.
Obama wouldn't and couldn't have done it for many reasons, not least that NK would never have bought it coming from him.
Which, whether you realize it or not, proves my point. NK took Trump's threats seriously because they knew he was serious. Obama they laughed at and manipulated him like a child.
Trump being a gibbering lunatic might just be one of several factors that contribute to a lasting peace between NK and SK. That doesn't make him any less of a gibbering lunatic.
It's easier for you to chalk this up to total chance by a gibbering lunatic than to even consider the possibility this was all planned. This despite all the evidence in front of you that Trump's visit to China, Kim's subsequent visit to China, and Kim's sudden about face are very much intertwined.
It's very childish to go stating your baseless conclusions as to what I'm thinking as fact, when you could instead argue your own point constructively.
I have argued it constructively, even to the point of giving a numbered list backed up with observable evidence. You're just too stuck in your own mindset to listen to it. Hence I'm mocking you, as your response is exactly what I expected.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
The notion of giving a US President a Peace Prize is pretty much insane.
Al Gore got his as a consolation prize for not being president.
No, *you* think he's a proto-hitler. The same guy that isn't rounding up people, but is more then happy to come out swinging against him. The same guy who isn't telling the police to shoot people, but is more then happy to attack them publicly win or lose. The same guy who places blame on both groups, but also says both groups have good people in them. And you're screeching "but he didn't DENOUNCE THEM!" just like the media told you. He's put people into place who are ardent believers that the constitution isn't a "living breathing document" but foundational to the point that it's sacrosanct and all law should be build around, and not that the constitution should fit the law. He's doesn't care to play nice with the media, this isn't a fault. It's a bonus. Trust in media is declining worldwide and he isn't the cause of it, the media itself is.
For a fascist, proto-fascist, next hitler he's doing a pretty shit job. You have no pattern recognition in this, if you did you would have been screeching at Obama when he was using EO's to create policy by fiat, and leaving the US in the current cluster fuck with DACA among other massive abuses of executive power bypassing the house and the senate. Hell you would have been screeching when Obama was preforming extra-judicial killings of american citizens without trial. At least Bush Jr. attempted to give some semblance of legal rights how badly it was regardless.
God damn give your fucking head a shake. At this point, it seems like the anti-trumpers would have been happier with another war or three. And considering all the neocons who flipped from Bush Jr's side after the tea party groups drove them out, and to the democrats and progressive left? I'm not fucking surprised.
Om, nomnomnom...
It's not 'our' fucking business to prevent peace from breaking out in Korea. It's for the Korean people to decide.
I can't believe it's even necessary to have to say this.
I would add:
7. NK Nuclear test mountain collapsed in on itself and would require significant resources to rebuild. Resources that they no longer have the economic means to acquire.
Agreeing to denuclearize means they get a win without having to substantiate it....
An ounce of perception is worth a pound of obscure
You should probably pay more attention to S.Korean politics. They just finished having an election there after the previous president was impeached and was a batshit crazy feminist that believed she was the reincarnation of a god and actively operated drugging dens for teen girls and the head of one of their largest multinational companies was directly bribing the president for policy. And, illegally destroyed documents(server wipes) tying all of this together. But was too stupid to destroy handwritten notes. Her daughter is singing like a bird and so loudly that it's damn right hilarious to save herself from life imprisonment. The two other options between Moon were, soft-China and soft-Japan neither won. Moon on the other hand has had a reunification desire after a friend of his was assassinated by Park's father in the 1960's for pushing for reunification.
In the end it doesn't matter what China wants, or even Japan, or the US. It's S.Korea and N.Korea's choice, and it looks like finally it might just happen with help from all parties involved.
Om, nomnomnom...
She wont go to jail for the same reason her husband dropped the Iran Contra investigation, the same reason Obama didn't prosecute Bush for war crimes, the same reason Trump wont prosecute Obama for starting wars without Congressional authorization. They're all a part of the same club and aren't about to send anyone to prison least they end up there themselves.
With the voters, yes, but the party has been working very, very, very hard to make it clear they DGAF about the voters. From the DNC arguing in court they have the right to rig primaries to Steney Hoyer just getting taped on doing just that. The Clintons are still influence peddlers and most Democratic officials owe them favors - favors the Clintons are happy to call in.