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70-Year-Old Former Volkswagen CEO Charged With Fraud Over Emissions Scandal (cnn.com)

An anonymous reader quotes CNN: The U.S.government has charged Martin Winterkorn, the former chief executive officer of Volkswagen, with fraud in the company's diesel emissions-cheating scandal. The indictment was unsealed in Detroit on Thursday, revealing that Winterkorn had been charged on March 14 with wire fraud and conspiracy to defraud Volkswagen's American customers and violate the Clean Air Act...

Volkswagen admitted in late 2015 that it fitted as many as 11 million diesel vehicles worldwide with software that could cheat emissions tests... The indictment alleges that Winterkorn was made aware of emissions cheating in May 2014 and July 2015, and that he agreed with other senior executives to continue the practice... Winterkorn, 70, is believed to be a resident of Germany. He is the ninth person charged by the U.S. government over emissions cheating.

84 comments

  1. Farfegnugen! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Karma is alive and well!

  2. And... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    ... Ferdinand Piech has the last laugh.

  3. He's 70 by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    they'll tie it up in court until he dies.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:He's 70 by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      they'll tie it up in court until he dies.

      No need. Germany doesn't extradite its citizens.

    2. Re: He's 70 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fraud is a felony so if they can prove it to an internationally valid standard they can make him serve time in german prison.

    3. Re: He's 70 by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 0

      "Can" doesn't mean "will", though, especially with love of the US government being at a low ebb in Europe right now.

    4. Re:He's 70 by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      This sounds like a job for the Impossible Mission Force... Get the target to believe that staying in Germany is more dangerous than going to America, and then when he crosses the border, nab him.

    5. Re: He's 70 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      No way, really? The eunuch still has testicular remnants, huh...

    6. Re:He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 0

      Of course we do, if there is a solid case.
      What else could/would we do?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re: He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      That is not how a court works in the EU.
      The judge or court does not know what Europe loves and what not, he applies the law, thats all.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    8. Re: He's 70 by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 0

      It's naive to think that judges aren't swayed by current political climate.

    9. Re: He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No, it is not naive.
      It is idiotic to think they are.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:He's 70 by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Of course we do, if there is a solid case.

      27 people have historically been extradited from Germany. Of those 15 were not German citizens and 12 were tried as war criminals and extradited by the Allies for their involvement in the international law.

      You're German (I think) so I'm just going to link to you your own constitution without a translation. As a citizen you are only allowed to be sent to another EU state or to an international court.

      Make no mistake, Martin Winterkorn will NOT be extradited to Germany, not for his current crimes in the USA, and not if he committed far worse ones.

    11. Re: He's 70 by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'm not certain about this, but I believe a criminal court case in Europe can only be brought against a person by a European government. Given Germany's reluctance to do much if anything about the emissions scandal I think we have no chance in hell of that happening.

    12. Re:He's 70 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, like how "you" extradited Christoforakos in response to the warrants for the Siemens scandal - the biggest bribery and corruption case in Greece in recent times...
      Oh, wait.. You didn't... Where is that talk that Greek corruption has to be dealt with, so it doesn't apply if the parties involved hold a German passport?

    13. Re: He's 70 by Brockmire · · Score: 0

      Or you can read a history book. It's fucking common sense, not idiotic. There's plenty to read in Supreme Court rulings. There's rarely a fucking landslide decision, it's majority decision based on at least two interpretations by much smarter people than you. Your German butthurt is showing.

    14. Re:He's 70 by dcw3 · · Score: 0

      Funny that there's a treaty between the US and Germany for that specific purpose
      http://www.mcnabbassociates.co...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    15. Re: He's 70 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Germany is more or less the only country that has done anything about it, which is why there are criminal investigations against dozens of car maker employees in Germany and the big three had to recall many thousands of cars, while the emissions cheating at Fiat, Renault, Ford, Volvo, Hyundai, Mazda, Toyota and probably others has been conveniently swept under the rug without any consequences whatsoever.

    16. Re: He's 70 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's irrelevant. There is an actual criminal investigation going on in Germany. If found guilty, he will face jail time. Additionally, VW is demanding compensation from him in a civil case. Whatever US kangaroo courts demand is pretty inconsequential at this point.

    17. Re:He's 70 by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Indeed but the treaty is just an extradition treaty and does not define *who* gets extradited. Specifically Germany is only allowed to extradite a non-citizen under the Article 16 of the German constitution. https://www.gesetze-im-interne... exception being extradition for final destination in an EU country, and extradition to appear in front of an international court.

      The only German citizens who have ever been extradited have been war criminals and most of them didn't leave the EU.

    18. Re: He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No it is not common sense.
      In Europe courts are completely independent.

      They don't follow public opinions, why should they?
      If the public opinion should change when the next promotion is due, the judge would probably not get promoted. So why would he risk to base a judgement on public opinion instead of law?

      You probably come from a country with 3rd world like law system ... so you don't grasp that concept.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    19. Re: He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      In germany we have laws, not a jury.
      While a Jury would likely convict him, he has done nothing wrong regarding the law. First of all he is only the CEO ... probably he had no knowledge about anything. Secondly: the cars are required to have certain properties under test conditions, those they had. While the company was morally wrong, they were legally right. I guess the laws are about to be fixed to explicitly disallow that kind of cheating.

      Of course we extradite criminals if there is a treaty with the other party and there is no death penalty involved.

      I'm not certain about this, but I believe a criminal court case in Europe can only be brought against a person by a European government.
      Perhaps you wanted to write that a bit different, not sure. The "government" is not involved at all, that would be a kind of totalitarian system, no? Cases are brought up by the prosecutor. So, if an american court wants to try that VM manager, they have to write to a german court, where the prosecutor will look at the case and forward it to a judge. The judge will decide if the case has merit and if so command the extradition.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    20. Re:He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Ah,
      I was not aware that german citizens can only be extradited to EU members.
      For some strange reason we nevertheless have a contract with the USA, probably that covers only non Germans then. I wonder how that works out if a German is jailed e.g. in Spain and an US court would approach a spanish court.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    21. Re:He's 70 by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That last part is a very good question. I also wonder if the German government would get some kind of guarantee that anyone extradited from Germany to an EU country would not be sent on to the USA.

    22. Re: He's 70 by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you wanted to write that a bit different, not sure. The "government" is not involved at all

      In Commonwealth countries if someone punches you, you go to the police, the police then arrest the person but to trialled as a criminal it is a government appointed *Crown* prosecutor, who brings the case to the court. That's what I meant. Judges still decide the case as normal, but the prosecutor in a criminal case is in the employ of the government.

      You have reminded me though, it works differently in Germany where the courts are involved far earlier in the process (I learnt that by watching Der Bulle von Tölz. Yes we all have our strange vices :-) ).

      But yes my point was the same: The USA would need to convince the responsible party in Germany to bring the case against him, they can't do it directly like in a civil matter. So if he hasn't broken a law in the eyes of the Germans its unlikely this will ever get even to a court.

    23. Re: He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Well,
      judges and state prosecutor are employed by the state, not the government, that might be technically a bit different in the UK if one is appointed by the crown, but then again the crown is not the government either :D

      So if he hasn't broken a law in the eyes of the Germans its unlikely this will ever get even to a court.
      Yes, and I personally look down on him for this case, as it is morally wrong and mislead many customers, who gt compensation now, he technically did not break any law. And in the US he did not break any law either, they simply think they can put him in front of a jury and convict him anyway.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    24. Re:He's 70 by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I guess at least the "no death penalty" would be honoured, but the extradited point, I have no clue.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  4. And the bankers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And the American bankers who caused the '08 meltdown got bonuses for breaking the law.

    1. Re:And the bankers by dontbgay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's what i was thinking. The only time an executive gets charged is when they're not an American citizen? As an American citizen, this is even more outrageous. That's not justice.

      Truth and justice is the American way as long as you're not part of the power structure. And even then, someone has their finger on the scales.

      --
      Sig not found.
    2. Re:And the bankers by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No -- truth and justice are not the American way, period. People who aren't part of the power structure get railroaded into plea bargains. People who are, get off free. He's being charged because he'll never see a US courtroom -- he'll live out his life in Germany.

    3. Re:And the bankers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the other way around. This is a German CEO who committed a crime in Germany that literally killed people. Why is he not being charged in Germany? Why is the German government letting him off the hook? The American government is the only government ethical enough to charge him.

    4. Re:And the bankers by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Killed people? Maybe a few people will die of lung cancer 40 years from now. Balance that with the oil not burned, the refineries not run, and the CO2 not emitted because the VW diesels were more efficient than gassers, and it likely comes out as a wash.

    5. Re:And the bankers by fazig · · Score: 1

      Here's a very recent article from one of the major German newspapers: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wir... Please use your preferred translation tool, which you trust.
      For those who are too lazy to read for themselves: He's under investigation in Germany as well. His entire financial existence is on the line according to the article.

    6. Re: And the bankers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ford, GM and Chrysler also never got more than symbolic fines after decades of cheating emissions in the USA.

    7. Re:And the bankers by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They could have been where Tesla is now if they had put all the latest r&d money into EVs. They are only now finally making decent ones.

      Could even have put money into hybrid technology like Toyota did.

      But instead they decided to cheat.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re: And the bankers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You donâ(TM)t understand and have never been in Europe. Most people do not live in houses or have garages. Cats are parked on the street without assigned space. Charging EV is a no go.

    9. Re:And the bankers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could have been where Tesla is now if they had put all the latest r&d money into EVs.

      Well, then it is a good thing they didn't. Because they continued to invest R&D into products that people actually buy, they could continue to employ hundreds of thousands of people, prepare for a gradual transition towards EVs and make some profit in the meantime isntead of continuously having to lie to investors in order to convince them to keep on funding a bottomless pit while continuosly failing to meet every self-imposed goal.

      Could even have put money into hybrid technology like Toyota did.

      They did. VW has made hybrids for many years. I fail to see the relevance, though.

      But instead they decided to cheat.

      As did almost every other company that produces cars and most of them with much higher real-world emissions. Unlike all the others, VW decided to come clean, fix every single affected vehicle, put in place measures to prevent any future cheating and sack everyone who was responsible or should have done something about it. Almost three years later, no other car maker has even admitted anything, despite all of the evidence and plenty models on sale today emit several times the legal maximum in real-world situations.

  5. in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    in Germany he can do time at very easy one!

    1. Re:in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much easier than Trump will. And not as long either.

    2. Re:in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by Megol · · Score: 1

      I imagine he'd spend time in a relatively nice federal facility in the US.

    3. Re:in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      American prisons are not federal, they are privat owned, hence the absurd amount of inmates.
      There are even judges that own prisons ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      It depends.

      Some prisons are privately owned.
      Others are owned by states and may or may not be privately run by contractors.
      Others are Federal, same applies as above.
      Finally, there are county and city jails, generally for prisoners before trial ("on remand") or serving short sentences.

    5. Re:in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by Megol · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      A low security facility is probably the most likely choice if convicted.

    6. Re: in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by jo7hs2 · · Score: 1

      You are sorely misinformed. While some prisons in the US are private, most are owned by the states or federal government. You make it sound like every prison is private, when those are the exception, rather than the rule.

    7. Re: in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      90% of prisoners are in state prisons and 10% are in federal prisons.

      7% of state prisons are privately run. 18% of federal prisons are privately run.

      Rising state prison populations have little to do with privatization.

      Maine imprisons the smallest percentage of its population.

      Louisiana imprisons the most.

    8. Re:in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Try to get some facts once in a while.

      Statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice show that, as of 2013, there were 133,000 state and federal prisoners housed in privately owned prisons in the U.S., constituting 8.4% of the overall U.S. prison population.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    9. Re: in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so it's black people then?

    10. Re: in Germany he can do time at very easy one! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Oh, so it's black people then?

      No. Washington DC is 50% black, much higher than any state, yet it has a low incarceration rate. Arizona is 3% black, and has a very high incarceration rate.

  6. The US generally doesn't extradite... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    The US generally doesn't extradite its citizens, and even citizen war criminals. It's unlikely he'll be extradited either -- worst case, he'll be stuck in Germany.

  7. Re: Watch out! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans...always projecting.

    Fn incel Trump Eunuch.

  8. Impeach him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh wait, wrong guy. Carry on.

  9. Re:Watch out! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He better watch out his kornhole doesn't get raped in prison.

    There's always a clueless punk idiot like you who makes a comment about someone becoming the victim of rape.

    What you need is to be raped yourself.

    That would shut you up.

  10. meanwhile in Appalachia by cats-paw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    coal companies are blowing the top off of mountains and detroying streams and creeks and they are not in violation of the clean water act.

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
    1. Re:meanwhile in Appalachia by dcollins117 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Don't forget the frackers. They're literally causing eathquakes with no repercussions.

    2. Re:meanwhile in Appalachia by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      coal companies are blowing the top off of mountains and detroying streams and creeks and they are not in violation of the clean water act.

      No they are not and the reason is *you*. *You* (as in a person in America) have a need that needs to be met in the form of energy. The government tried* to meet this need balancing the requirements of *you* and the environment. Sure they could tomorrow tell the coal companies and the frackers to stop, but just what will *you* do when the power goes out and the petrol stations run dry?

      What they can do is implement long term measures to slowly change the standards by which primary energy is extracted without destroying the energy industry in the process (because who in their right mind would build anything in America with a long payback period and long service life if the government shows it will happily shutdown an industry on a whim). Cars however have shorter development cycles and shorter life spans so it's far easier make larger changes in shorter periods of time.

      And what is the result? Well coal consumption in millions of tonnes for the past 10 years in the USA:
      565.7
      573.3
      564.2
      496.2
      525.0
      495.4
      437.9
      454.6
      453.5
      391.8
      358.4

      And production follows similar trends. Not actually bad at all. The USA may still be in the top handful of countries in emissions per capita, but at least you're working on the blowing off mountain tops problem.

  11. They should give him the gas chamber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would be fitting in oh-so-many ways.

  12. Re:In Europe by Megol · · Score: 3, Funny

    I must say your sober, polite and factual text have made me realize what I fool I have been all my life. I'll now convert and spend my remaining time in a monastery contemplating over these truths.

  13. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kind of surprised Trump isn't giving him some kind of award for such a great effort polluting and helping Trump achieve his goal of making America the new China with beautiful smogs.

    1. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      President Trump has awarded the CEO of Volkwagen a key to the Trump Foundation Bathroom.

  14. completely false by aepervius · · Score: 3, Informative

    Germany do extradite its citizen and there are treaty for it, supplemented by EU wide treaty. In fact here is the german/us one : https://www.google.com/url?sa=...
    What it does not allow like many other EU country, is to extradite if there is a death penalty. Either the target country has to give up the death +penalty, or never apply it. I think winterkorn is safe from death penalty , so if the offense is valid under german law (and fraud is) extradition is not off the table.

    --
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    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:completely false by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Germany do extradite its citizen and there are treaty for it, supplemented by EU wide treaty

      Not at all. The treaty with the USA does not overwrite the German constitution. The only people who can be extradited to any non-EU country are non-citizens, or citizens exclusively for the trial at an international court.

      27 people have been extradited from Germany. 15 were non-citizens, and 12 were Nazi war criminals, some of which ended up in EU countries.

      I think winterkorn is safe from death penalty

      Winterkorn is safe because he is a German citizen protected by Article 16 paragraph 2 of the German Constitution.

    2. Re:completely false by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      He would probably argue that US prison would violate his human rights, especially at his age. That's enough to stop extradition.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:completely false by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      He would probably argue that US prison would violate his human rights, especially at his age. That's enough to stop extradition.

      He wouldn't need to because the GP was incorrect. Germany has never extradited a citizen to a non-EU country and / or for anything other than to be tried at an international court for war crimes.

      The treaty with the USA does not trump the German constitution.

  15. Rut roh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sound like someone got raped this morning. Did you like it? Was it a big black cock that reamed your cornhole?

  16. Age of perp in title needed... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot to also give his race and sexual orientation in the title.

    How about "Former Volkswagen CEO Charged With Fraud Over Emissions Scandal"?

  17. The Hypocrisy by ytene · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As we now know to be true, in 2008, agencies and individuals in the United States committed a massive amount of fraud in the run-up to what is in all possibility one of the worst financial crimes yet seen.

    Although many of the victims of that crime were American citizens who lost jobs and homes because of the bankers' greed, they were not the only ones. Investors and savers and pensioners the world over have been absolutely devastated because of that one event, with literally tens of thousands of people across the world working into their 70s and 80s - literally until they drop dead - because of that massive amount of financial mis-management.

    I appreciate that the 2008 financial crimes and the subsequent emissions scandal are two very different crimes, but how come not one US banker is serving time for what happened in 2008? How come the United States hasn't given up any of the culprits to those nations whose citizens have been robbed?

    The American people have every right to be angry with the emissions scandal. What was done was wrong. I am not trying to argue otherwise. However, I am pointing out that when crimes span countries, justice is far from even-handed.

    I would absolutely stand with the environmental campaigners of the United States and demand justice for the way that VAG conspired to cheat emissions testing for their vehicles. However, that would be conditional upon fair and even-handed exercise of justice. We simply can't go around selectively choosing how to serve justice.

    For example, it also wasn't fair for the United States to bring a misdemeanour charge and $100,000 in fines against former General David Patreus and then convict Chelsea Manning of 19 charges including theft and espionage and then sentence her to 35 years in prison. In order for justice to work, it not only has to be fair, it has to be seen to be fair.

    I'm not for one moment suggesting that the United States should not seek compensation from Volkswagen, but if they are going to ask for it, then they need to offer up an equal amount of justice for all those outside the United States who have been wronged or injured by the actions of US citizens. Anything less is hypocrisy - and it serves to undermine any good that the United States tries to do in the world.

    1. Re:The Hypocrisy by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Rich people buy better lawyers. Rich people also buy laws that dump their sins onto peons.

    2. Re:The Hypocrisy by Local+ID10T · · Score: 1

      Whataboutism.

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    3. Re:The Hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but how come not one US banker is serving time for what happened in 2008?

      They are smart criminals. Its been difficult to prove any person(s) as responsible at a given company because little was put into writing to connect said person(s) to the scandal.

      Want to fix this? Regulate it. The moment you have company executives facing the possibility of potential jail time for decisions made their subordinates (with or without their knowledge) - you'll see a significant change in company culture and risk taking.

      However, an argument could be made that jail time may be a bit extreme. In which case, financial penalties should be significant when a violation occurs. HIPAA violations are a good example of this with financial penalties associated with breaches per data record. GDPR penalties - up to 4% of a company's revenue - are another good example of strong regulation causing a significant change in company culture and risk taking.

      Until you provide a motive for a company to change their risky behavior and stop making profit - they won't. Some companies have enough ethics to regulate themselves. For those that can't/won't - we need federal regulations.

    4. Re:The Hypocrisy by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      Don't forget about the "Good ol' boys club" that Patreus was a member of. Once you reach a certain rank, you are damned near untouchable and - at worst - will get a demotion if you get caught. Simply wasn't high-ranking enough to get that immunity.

  18. Re:In Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    corruption is the new pretext of US to try to destabilize UE companies (so that they are not a threat to them or so then can buy them for a low price)
    If UE applies the same rules as US does then Tim Cook should be in jail for now

  19. Please put him in a room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with exhaust gases until he dies over a period of two years where he is to hunt for rats in his cell for food with slightly contaminated water. At least, that's what would look like justice to me.

    The socalled civilized justice system is leading to contaminated air, so it's clearly not working.

  20. Re:Tribulate VW more and Adolf H. will be resurrec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "instead of the jewish state's foundation."

    If you think this is something worth celebrating then fuck you right in the fucking face you dumb fuck!

  21. politics, not justice by Cederic · · Score: 1

    Announcing this in Detroit is just a nonsensical political statement that derides any pretence this is about the public good.

    1. Re:politics, not justice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of this has been for the public good. It has all been a big show affair in order to convince people that foreign competitors are somehow almost as evil as US car makers while stealing a couple of billions in the process. It would have helped if they had chosen a slightly more believable pretense than the US suddenly caring about the environment in very specific circumstances and cases, but they had to go with what was thrown at them.

      That being said, they executed it spectecularly well. Damaging a domestic company's reputation always works very well in Germany, since many Germans do not trust anything German and there is nothing Germans care more about than the environment, so the target was chosen wisely. They were also very succesful in exaggerating the damages and making it seem like all of it was some evil plan. The best part was probably the strategy of continuously making increasingly absurd statements and involving more separate US government agencies and kangaroo courts in gradual steps, each with separate defamatory press releases, preferably coinciding with car shows or announcements of new products, to keep on creating a continuous stream of defamation and bad news. They definitely improved upon the already very well-performed damage campaign against Toyota over the sudden unintended accelerations that probably never actually happened.

      It must be said though that American and British news outlets and press agencies helped a lot, by repeating absurd claims and adding their own exaggerations without any fact-checking or context whatsoever. They were really determined to damage Europe's biggest employer as much as possible, to the benefit of competitors that have much worse real-world emissions but somehow escaped everything by simply never admitting to anything even when presented with very clear evidence.

  22. Re:In Europe by Tsolias · · Score: 1

    Well... it's different than what the common rhetoric.
    If I used the Russians, or the Chinese... maybe throw some N. Koreans here and there, I'd be more popular and persuasive.
    This doesn't change the fact that nobody bats an eye about VW's corruption in the E.U. because they are germans.

  23. Re:In Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Germany is the only country in Europe that has done anything at all about curruption in the car industry. Remember the criminal investigations into Fiat Chrysler, Renault-Nissan, Ford and PSA? There is plenty of evidence of cheating much wortse than what happened at VW (and most certainly compared to Daimler and BMW) in each case, but somehow actually prosecuting any of the non-German car makers seems to be blocked completely by bureaucracy and political pressure.

  24. Re:In Europe by Tsolias · · Score: 1

    Germany has been the no.1 factor of corruption in E.U. with Siemens, Daimler, Deutsche Telekom, Fraport, Bayer and Deutsche Bank.
    (there's a longer list, but I don't bother listing it here)
    Nobody dares to touch VW in E.U., that's the problem, and Germany won't do anything about it because it's their company.

  25. Re:In Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Germany has been extremely aggressive against VW. They can't do much, since it seems they did not actually violate any laws outside the US, but there is a massive criminal investigation with dozens of suspects. You can always count on Germany to go after every tiny misstep of German companies while completely ignoring the crimes of foreign competitors.