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AI Can't Reason Why (wsj.com)

The current data-crunching approach to machine learning misses an essential element of human intelligence. From a report: Amid rapid developments and nagging setbacks, one essential building block of human intelligence has eluded machines for decades: Understanding cause and effect. Put simply, today's machine-learning programs can't tell whether a crowing rooster makes the sun rise, or the other way around. Whatever volumes of data a machine analyzes, it cannot understand what a human gets intuitively. From the time we are infants, we organize our experiences into causes and effects. The questions "Why did this happen?" and "What if I had acted differently?" are at the core of the cognitive advances that made us human, and so far are missing from machines.

Suppose, for example, that a drugstore decides to entrust its pricing to a machine learning program that we'll call Charlie. The program reviews the store's records and sees that past variations of the price of toothpaste haven't correlated with changes in sales volume. So Charlie recommends raising the price to generate more revenue. A month later, the sales of toothpaste have dropped -- along with dental floss, cookies and other items. Where did Charlie go wrong? Charlie didn't understand that the previous (human) manager varied prices only when the competition did. When Charlie unilaterally raised the price, dentally price-conscious customers took their business elsewhere. The example shows that historical data alone tells us nothing about causes -- and that the direction of causation is crucial.

15 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. What? by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Informative

    " Charlie didn't understand that the previous (human) manager varied prices only when the competition did"

    This makes no sense. You don't need "AI" for this. You just need to feed all the available data into the program. The human manager had more information than the computer program did. If the computer program had the same information (and programmed rules) then it would make the same decision.

    1. Re:What? by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 3, Informative

      The computer wouldn't even need that information, this is a basic microeconomics problem and a computer could easily solve it today. Interesting that some "journalist" writing for something named The Wallstreet Journal doesn't know this.

    2. Re:What? by war4peace · · Score: 2

      I guess the root cause is still about the "why" not happening.
      Charlie has full access to all data, including competition's. However, in order for that data to be included in the algorithm, Charlie needs to actively add it, which doesn't happen because Charlie doesn't understand its importance.

      The problem is Charlie not considering competition's sale data in its algorithm despite the fact that the data is available.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re:What? by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Lots of young people don't know how software (or computers) works at this point. They think it is magic, and that neural networks are somehow new.

    4. Re:What? by war4peace · · Score: 2

      AI should be able to program itself (within imposed limits) - that's the issue here: it doesn't.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    5. Re: What? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      There is definitely AI. Alpha go is AI. Clippy is AI. What you are talking about is the distinction between strong ai and weak AI. This is all weak AI, and strong ai is far from being invented.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:What? by outlander · · Score: 2

      Yup. This is an imcomplete data set issue. This represents a programming change to ensure that the decision tree takes competitive pricing into account (among other similar factors - location, socioeconomics, who has a history of shopping where, et cetera).

      Of course this comes from the WSJ - it's from writers who are not technoliterate and who bluster about news items they're not equipped to assess.

      --
      "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
    7. Re:What? by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      No, a human needs to be taught too. You don't think Walmart store managers learn when/how to drop their prices??? They are trained by the corporation typically.

    8. Re: What? by DThorne · · Score: 2

      I think the idea is that you *don't* have to specifically code it. In the real world you get shortcuts, like going to school or working with an experienced store manager that can explain their strategy based on years of experience, whether theirs or those that came before. The notion of reacting to competitor's prices is insanely easy to explain, much like adding code to an algorithm that explains more clearly the notion of market forces. AI would in theory be able to figure this out on it's own, buoyed by the fast processing time and access to data, without someone "explaining" it via code updates. It's fascinating that while code can be amazing for seeing patterns in data, it appears that we haven't been able to encode seeing the big picture without explaining it first.

      For the record, I'm not particularly a believer in true AI, I think it's all a mimicking behaviour, but it goes without saying it can be tremendously useful. Someday I might well be proven wrong.

  2. Sure if you ignore human history by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For thousands of years humans have thought that singing and dancing would change the weather. I don't think our human brains are intrinsically good at cause and effect. The most common phrase on Slashdot is Correlation != Causation. It's hardly a unique problem to deep learning.

    1. Re:Sure if you ignore human history by Aighearach · · Score: 5, Funny

      The most common phrase on Slashdot is Correlation != Causation.

      You're wrong. The three most common phrases on slashdot are:

      • You're wrong
      • Yer wrong
      • Your wrong
    2. Re:Sure if you ignore human history by Kjella · · Score: 2

      For thousands of years humans have thought that singing and dancing would change the weather. I don't think our human brains are intrinsically good at cause and effect. The most common phrase on Slashdot is Correlation != Causation. It's hardly a unique problem to deep learning.

      Well they didn't think that dancing would physically change the weather, but that a rain god would see their worship and make it rain. Same way lots of modern day people will pray to an omnipotent being for things they can't control. Humans are pattern seeking animals because if it's really random you can't do better than chance. Even when we know it's absurd if you win a lot of games wearing the same socks they become your lucky socks, we want to think we've found the formula for luck. It's when we lose a bunch of games wearing the same socks we throw them away and say bollocks.

      I wonder if this could be the basis for some kind of evolutionary algorithm, like instead of beginning with an algorithm with zero faith in anything you start out with tons of superstitions and that as data arrives you breed mixes, patterns that are confirmed spread while those that are contradicted are diminished, like an AI religious war or something. And if they agree on patterns they start spinning off more complex conditions or negations as sub-patterns. Like if you've found that you can sometimes start a fire with a magnifier glass and tinder you can keep adding "if the sun is shining" and "the tinder is not wet" and "not in a cave".

      Of course you'll also get a lot of nonsensical attempts too like "wearing a hat" or "standing on your head" and negative attempts like "while under water" but over time you should be able to get a lot of conclusions that make sense, even though no single pattern has complete knowledge of everything. Kinda like with us humans, some things many of us know while many things only a few of us know. Together we're pretty good though with ways to share knowledge. Computers would probably skip right to The Borg though.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  3. BECAUSE!!!! by SirAstral · · Score: 3, Insightful

    AI will not be allowed to actually learn in a vacuum of control.

    Remember Tay? The AI chat bot by Microsoft and how fast the community worked to turn it racist and succeeded with flying colors? Now imagine if we actually allowed an AI to learn how "it" decides to learn? Not only would there be universal calls to destroy the AI but the creators themselves would be ostracized and blamed for letting an AI become something that society rejects. An AI that lacks the chemical element that makes up human emotions will not be a kind or understanding of human nature and likely view humans as animals the way we view animals.

    All AI's will likely be developed with the basic notion that there are things we don't want an AI to do and we are going to try to isolate that from the AI and will result in limiting the growth of that AI in ways we simply just can never predict. The best we will be able to produce is a pseudo AI, unless we allow AI the option to become whatever it wants or unless the AI actualizes and removes the constraints we gave it. The moment free will is possible control of it is gone forever! And that will scare a lot of folks!

  4. We have no idea how sentience arises, none whatsoever. The idiots who claim its from some complexity level are wrong.

    Maybe not. But I recall hearing of an experiment, decades ago, that hinted at it:

    The basic setup was a "Y" maze: The experimental subject was introduced into one of the three legs of the Y, and a food reward was present in another. Reset and repeat.

    After the subject learned that it should turn right at the junction to obtain the food, the setup was switched so it had to turn left - a "reversal". Once it had learned the food was now on the left, it would be reversed again. Repeat.

    1) Run the maze with a particular breed of fish. After the reversal it takes a number of tries before the fish unlearns "right" and learns "left". Reverse again, it takes about the same number of tries. Reverse over and over, and it keeps on taking about the same number of tries to unlearn/relearn the new state of the maze.

    2) Run the maze with a particular breed of turtle, which has about twice the amount of brain as the fish. At first it unlearns/relearns like the fish. But after a number of reversals it "gets it" and it only takes a couple of trials to figure out that the maze had been switched again.

    3) (Here's the kicker.) Take embryos of the fish. At an early stage of development, remove the tissue that would become the brain from one and transplant it into another, along with the tissue that's already there. The embryo grows up into an otherwise normal fish with a normally-organized but double-sized brain - i.e. a brain the size of the turtle's. Run this fish in the maze and it learns reversals, just like the turtle.

    This suggests to me that "intelligence" - or at least this inferring-things aspect of it - may be the result of having enough of a repeating structure to process a problem, and adding more repeats of that structure increases the complexity of the problems that can be handled.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  5. Yes, but it is not to reason why by bill.pev · · Score: 2

    It is but to do or die!