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In Virtual Reality, How Much Body Do You Need? (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: Will it soon be possible to simulate the feeling of a spirit not attached to any particular physical form using virtual or augmented reality? If so, a good place to start would be to figure out the minimal amount of body we need to feel a sense of self, especially in digital environments where more and more people may find themselves for work or play. It might be as little as a pair of hands and feet, report Dr. Michiteru Kitazaki and a Ph.D. student, Ryota Kondo. In a paper published Tuesday in Scientific Reports, they showed that animating virtual hands and feet alone is enough to make people feel their sense of body drift toward an invisible avatar (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source). Their work fits into a corpus of research on illusory body ownership, which has challenged understandings of perception and contributed to therapies like treating pain for amputees who experience phantom limb.
Using an Oculus Rift virtual reality headset and a motion sensor, Dr. Kitazaki's team performed a series of experiments in which volunteers watched disembodied hands and feet move two meters in front of them in a virtual room. In one experiment, when the hands and feet mirrored the participants' own movements, people reported feeling as if the space between the appendages were their own bodies. In another experiment, the scientists induced illusory ownership of an invisible body, then blacked out the headset display, effectively blindfolding the subjects. The researchers then pulled them a random distance back and asked them to return to their original position, still virtually blindfolded. Consistently, the participants overshot their starting point, suggesting that their sense of body had drifted or "projected" forward, toward the transparent avatar.
Using an Oculus Rift virtual reality headset and a motion sensor, Dr. Kitazaki's team performed a series of experiments in which volunteers watched disembodied hands and feet move two meters in front of them in a virtual room. In one experiment, when the hands and feet mirrored the participants' own movements, people reported feeling as if the space between the appendages were their own bodies. In another experiment, the scientists induced illusory ownership of an invisible body, then blacked out the headset display, effectively blindfolding the subjects. The researchers then pulled them a random distance back and asked them to return to their original position, still virtually blindfolded. Consistently, the participants overshot their starting point, suggesting that their sense of body had drifted or "projected" forward, toward the transparent avatar.
really? This issue is literally nearly 30 years old... it's like it's just a promotion for Facebook spyware... err, i mean VR Gear
Millennials are fucking retards.
Virtual reality is the only way to have a normal body.
Only the most talented users with the best hardware can get their whole body into the internet.
Actually no, only the person that turned out to be a program all along could do that.
Their dick.
Because that's what they think with.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I could probably be happy with quite a bit less body than I have now...
Nullius in verba
they would be telling you a trackball and wireframe graphics VRML plugins in Netscape would be good enough.
If hands and feet are good enough today, why not use stick figure hands and feet.
If you want something immersive, being able to shift your POV is pretty useful.
and I think Pornhub may have some VR studies that could have different findings.
The issue with research like this, is that you can still feel and use your physical body when using VR goggles.
Until they find a way to completely disassociate the mind from the physical body into a VR system, then you won't find out whether people feel like they "own" the virtual body or not.
Listen - "virtual reality" is nice as a concept - but it's the same as any simulation. Yes - you can add arbitrary 'immersion' by adding various kinds of haptics, biofeedback, etc. reflecting body state and the like, but it's still virtual reality with just keyboard/mouse lame headset.
It's all just what you want to add to it - but like with most simulations, the additional features tend to fade into the background once you acclimatize to them.
And no matter how 'good' you make the simulation, because it IS a simulation, there is always going to strong pressures to use shorthands for longer experiences, injecting an artifice into the medium as it evolves. Books do this, movies do this, radio did this - all expressive works do this.
I currently categorize virtual reality as a relatively shallow extension of regular computer simulations. It's not as shallow as say, 3D movies are to regular movies - but in the same sense as only needing say, a mouse pointer, or simple indicator of position you're controlling - the same would hold for Virtual Reality - perhaps a couple of dots contrasting well enough with the background to know what you'd interact with with your arms, or controller, or whatever.
You don't even really need the dots if you can have the interactions themselves convey whatever you were controlling in-game/utility.
Like, if you were just doing an interactive map program, you could follow smartphone logic, and just have hand movements to drag/zoom around that map. Same with an interactive movie theater app on no-interface mode. As long as you didn't expect everything to be a body simulation experience, there doesn't have to be any limitation - the headset is just a large-aspect virtual monitor for some uses.
Ryan Fenton
Will it soon be possible to simulate the feeling of a spirit not attached to any particular physical form
No. Feeling comes from physical form. No form, no feelings.
Played Dark Secret, first scene you look in a mirror to see your avatar. Tried to smile or make a facial expression but of course there are no sensors for face, immersion ruined.
Played Job Simulator, dropped item on floor, tried to kick it away with my feet. Failed because no feet sensor. Immersion ruined. Also tried to hip close file drawer, failed because it can't tell where my hips are. Immersion ruined.
Tried Rec Room. Saw other people. Wanted to give hand gestures (Peace, Shaka, Middle Finger, etc...) but couldn't. Need every finger tracked.
I'm not saying the current VR isn't great, it is. Have loved several games. BUT, I IMO we need all of those in their. In order of priority IMO
1. Face (this one is low-hanging fruit as it would be easy and cheap to do)
2. Fingers
3. Feet (this one and below are also easy, just add velcro strap sensors)
4. Elbows
4. Hips
5. Knees
Only game I play anymore is Elite with HOTAS in VR. I know a lot of people think VR sucks, is a gimmick or see 3DTV or whatever but honestly never had more fun playing a video game. Playing in VR for two years now and still insanely amazing.
Everything you do IRL happens to your space cadet avatar in game. Push the throttle forward, move joystick or press a button every movement is accurately mirrored in game. Often find myself looking at the throttle indicators in game representation to set right speed.
Still forget where I am sometimes... raising my hand to block out light from a nearby star doesn't work... amount of time taken to internalize why on occasion is embarrassing.
I also like to sign my name for no damn reason.
Ryan Fenton
The projected avatars can very selectively allow blaster bolts to pass through but be physical enough to hold and fight with a light saber. We have seen this.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Listen - "virtual reality" is nice as a concept - but it's the same as any simulation. Yes - you can add arbitrary 'immersion' by adding various kinds of haptics, biofeedback, etc. reflecting body state and the like, but it's still virtual reality with just keyboard/mouse lame headset.
It's all just what you want to add to it - but like with most simulations, the additional features tend to fade into the background once you acclimatize to them.
And no matter how 'good' you make the simulation, because it IS a simulation, there is always going to strong pressures to use shorthands for longer experiences, injecting an artifice into the medium as it evolves. Books do this, movies do this, radio did this - all expressive works do this.
I currently categorize virtual reality as a relatively shallow extension of regular computer simulations. It's not as shallow as say, 3D movies are to regular movies - but in the same sense as only needing say, a mouse pointer, or simple indicator of position you're controlling - the same would hold for Virtual Reality - perhaps a couple of dots contrasting well enough with the background to know what you'd interact with with your arms, or controller, or whatever.
You don't even really need the dots if you can have the interactions themselves convey whatever you were controlling in-game/utility.
Like, if you were just doing an interactive map program, you could follow smartphone logic, and just have hand movements to drag/zoom around that map. Same with an interactive movie theater app on no-interface mode. As long as you didn't expect everything to be a body simulation experience, there doesn't have to be any limitation - the headset is just a large-aspect virtual monitor for some uses.
Ryan Fenton
Everything you have ever experienced is "just" a simulation.
You arenâ(TM)t Ryan Fenton.
Ryan Fenton
In the VR world, it depends on whether porn is the killer app. Maybe platonic VR is more of a change of pace I guess.
They concluded, because the users consistently overshot their starting point, that the users were projecting themselves towards the avatar? It sounds like they had a conclusion they wanted to make, and tested only that which would support the conclusion rather than what might refute it, making this bad science.
Why didn't they conclude that people tend to overestimate how much they're being pushed or pulled by external forces? Why not move the avatar as well, to see if this influences where the people end up? Or this could be checked in real life as well, eliminating the bias of the avatar to see if we just are bad at guessing distances. See if someone who is blindfolded also overestimates the distance they get pulled while blindfolded, and presumably on a skateboard or something so they can't use steps taken as a measure of the distance they were moved.
Perhaps I am the real...
Ryan Fenton?
With motion capture technology getting better and cheaper - and capable of real-time capture - incorporating a body in VR should be a solved problem soon. Startups are flocking to this space:
Perception Neuron Hardware
https://neuronmocap.com/produc...
Kigurumi Live Animator (real time animation running on Perception Neuron)
https://kila.amebaownd.com/
See Kigurumi Live Animator Animation demo here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
PrioVR:
https://yostlabs.com/priovr/
Ikenema Orion:
https://ikinema.com/orion
Motion Shadow:
https://www.motionshadow.com/v...
Coming "real soon now" Mocap with your phone camera: (open beta available)
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/...
Rayman
There are no spirits, so how does one simulate being one?