Slashdot Mirror


First Government Office in the US To Accept Bitcoin As Payment (orlandosentinel.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader SonicSpike quotes the Orlando Sentinel: If cash, check or credit card seems too old-fashioned, Seminole County, Florida Tax Collector Joel Greenberg said this week his office will begin accepting bitcoin as payment for new IDs, license plates and property taxes starting next month. Greenberg said accepting bitcoin and bitcoin cash as a payment method will promote transparency and accuracy in payment.

"There's no risk to the taxpayer," said Greenberg, who has often raised eyebrows since his 2016 election by moves including encouraging certain employees with concealed-weapons permits to carry a firearm openly as a security measure. "Blockchain technology is the future of the whole financial industry."

A spokesperson for a neighboring county's tax collector said they had no plans to follow the move. "Frankly, I think the currency is so volatile that I donâ(TM)t think it makes sense."

And an official at a nearby county said bitcoin payments were "not on our to-do list", adding that no one in the county had requested the ability to pay their taxes in bitcoin.

42 comments

  1. There's no risk to the taxpayer by john+of+sparta · · Score: 1

    right

  2. Crypto is awesome- but wrong place to accept it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there is going to be a government right now upon which is going to accept crypto currencies you want it to be in a place where crypto currency is already widely accepted. Otherwise there aren't going to be enough users to make it worth implementing. Though I'll admit you do have to start somewhere. However the best place to start is going to be where there are other like-minded individuals and frankly that place isn't Florida. It isn't Silicon Valley. It isn't New York City. The place to start would be Portsmouth New Hampshire or Keene, New Hampshire. Manchester aught to also be a contender, but I'll leave it off the list for now. Basically anywhere in southern New Hampshire is probably going to be a better place to start than some place in Florida. Basically New Hampshire has more crypto accepting businesses than anywhere else on a per capita basis and more users and that is mostly thanks to the migration of principled libertarian types fleeing other states and moving here. From the Shire Society to the Free State Project. There are a lot of technical types and non-technical types who have adopted crypto currencies here. Where else can you almost live your entire life off crypto other than here in New Hampshire? I typically find myself paying with crypto currencies numerous times throughout the day both in business and personal (and I'm not in a "crypto" business or an "investor"). Pretty much nowhere else unless you cheat- and start using debit cards that convert to dollars first or buy gift cards with crypto first which all defeats the point.

  3. Not really... by mhkohne · · Score: 4, Informative

    BitPay is guaranteeing the exchange rate for long enough for the transaction to go through. So the tax office never actually takes Bitcoin - BitPay takes BitCoin, and sends cash to the government office. And presumably, BitPay gets a cut somewhere in there.

    It's more or less like adding a new credit card processor, as far as the receiver of the payment is concerned.

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
  4. Queue the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Queue the 'why won't people stop using this :((( it's monopoly money!!!' crowd, 99% of which are just butthurt they missed the early boat.

    1. Re: Queue the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, right?

    2. Re: Queue the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 taxman is accepting bitcoin. 1 taxman. 1.

      Queue the bitcoin is useful everywhere dweebs...

  5. Carbon Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about the risk of wasting a ton of electricity and dumping C02 into the air.

    1. Re:Carbon Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This perspective ignores the cost (and thus environmental harms) of traditional currencies (digital or federal reserve notes).

      The cost of traditional fiat currency regardless of whether we are talking about ones and zeros in a computer or a printed / minted one are more significant than typically understood. It's not just the printing that has a cost. It's the movement of that money that comes at a price. If you talking printed or minted money there is the physical transport costs and production costs. This is in part due to high manual security costs (armored trucks, personal, banks, vaults, etc). Then if we start talking about wire transfers, credit cards, etc you have to take into account the high costs here as well. Where do banks make a buck? Fees. And those fees are particulalry true for wire transfers. By the time all is said and done an international wire transfer will likely cost $55-120 USD+. I know I just got one. it was something like $63 to send and 15 to receive. From Sweden to a US bank account. The item cost $106.97. The wire cost almost as much. The credit card would have cost a lot less- but not anywhere near the 1 cent that a payment via Dash would have cost or even a "high" fee of Bitcoin at maybe 40 cents. The immediate fee for the credit card would have been over $3.76 USD (3% plus 25 cents a transaction). $116.97 was the total bill with shipping. Then there is another 3% due to the cost of charge backs and fraud. Security is simply non-existent with fiat currencies like it is with crypto currencies. Then there is potentially another 6% you'll likely have to tack on soon because governments are getting rid of cash. In many cases small businesses are forced to turn to purchasing goods using a credit card thus the total added cost to the goods you sell ends up being around 12% (maybe even higher). My company has been saving around 40% on transaction and related costs via the use of crypto currencies.

      The reality is the federal reserve notes you have in your pocket are subsided by taxpayers. Crypto currencies stand and fall on there own merits. I've only ever really gained in the long term from my use of crypto currencies. Crypto currencies have gained in value far more than they've lost and crypto currencies are more valuable than the "investment" value hype.

    2. Re:Carbon Cost by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Your bank is screwing you. I do a wire transfer from HSBC in Hong Kong to either Germany (3 weeks ago) or the US (1 week ago) for $14.65; now, the receiving bank charged ~$23 (Germany) and $25 (US). When I receive wire transfers from the EU or the US to HK, I pay $14.65. So you're getting screwed - find a better bank. Wire transfers - flat fee - for less than $15 on my side...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    3. Re:Carbon Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      litecoin costs about 4 cents

    4. Re:Carbon Cost by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Your bank is screwing you.

      Must be in the USA. Virtually all US banks screw you over on wire transfer fees which are multiples of what it costs in most other countries... because they can.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. hm by supernova87a · · Score: 1

    I mean, I'm all in favor of government being more proactive, responsive, etc, but this is ridiculous.

    And, by the way, didn't the other story today just say that quantum computing is about to break encryption in 5 years?

    1. Re: hm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We'll, you should email them and suggest they use IOTA.

  7. FALSE headline by gravewax · · Score: 2

    The government department is not accepting bitcoin at all, it accepts the cash equivalent as transacted through bitpay. They are not nor do they have any intention of accepting bitcoin.

    1. Re:FALSE headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can I pay my tax bill using bitcoin? Yes? Well then they accept bitcoin as payment. Everything else is just pedantry.

    2. Re:FALSE headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get it- you don't like the fact that it is convertible into another currency. Get over it.

    3. Re:FALSE headline by gravewax · · Score: 1

      I got no problems with it being convertible into another currency. I have issue with morons like you that think this is them accepting bitcoin, it is not. They are explicitly NOT accepting bitcoin, they are simply enabling another payment provider, that payment provider only pays them in USD.

    4. Re:FALSE headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no you can't. you must pay in USD. Their just happens to be a service that will exchange for you. Just like you can't pay in magic beans, chicken eggs or even Foreign currencies. But their are places that will act as exchanges to allow you to pay in any of those.

    5. Re:FALSE headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not pedantry at all. The Government accepting bitcoin would imply the government somewhat legitimising it as a currency and accepting the associated risks, they are not doing that. The Government has just accepted a new payment provider just like any other payment provider, they really don't give a shit how you pay them or in what currency or commodity as long as Bitpay pay them in USD. Bitpay is the one accepting bitcoin and the associated risks.

    6. Re:FALSE headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa - you have a buyer for my magic beans!?!

    7. Re:FALSE headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Always moving the bar! For the longest time was "Until I can pay my taxes in bitcoin, it's not real! hur dur" ... now here we are paying taxes in bitcoin, and now it's "It's not real bitcoin, it's paying through a payment processor, hur dur"

      When will you assholes just give up and accept the fact that you were wrong about bitcoin from the start and you missed the boat. Suck it up and admit you were an idiot from the beginning and vow to do better going forward.

      But, what we'll see is just more bar moving as cryptocurrency chugs along. Eventually it will be "unless it's a one world currency, it's not real! Hur dur"

  8. Who takes the risk, and the benefits? by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    Government relies on Bitpay cover the risk associated with volatility. Bitpay will make nice benefits or huge losses depending if bitcoin is rising or crashing vs USD. Is it just government promoting speculation?

    Perhaps... except that Bitpay only guarantee the rate for 15 mn, and bitcoin transaction can make much more time to be processed. Hence government also takes a share in the volatility risk.

    1. Re:Who takes the risk, and the benefits? by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure, that the government will never take the risk with volatility, they will just send the payer a bill for the difference.

    2. Re:Who takes the risk, and the benefits? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Perhaps... except that Bitpay only guarantee the rate for 15 mn, and bitcoin transaction can make much more time to be processed. Hence government also takes a share in the volatility risk.

      Some simple searches would show this is false. Bitpay guarantees the exchange rate for 15 minutes, if your bitcoins arrive later they'll be converted at the current rate and if it's enough they'll pay the invoice, otherwise they'll just send you back a notification that you underpaid so try again. In which case it looks like you need to get a refund (2nd transaction fee) and pay again (3rd transaction fee). Not surprising since they don't know when you initiated the transfer, if you spent 14 minutes waiting for BTC to crash thinking the actual transaction would finish in seconds or set some super-low fee causing it to take a day. In fact since long processing times are highly correlated with extreme volatility it's probably near impossible to get any significant exchange rate advantage out of those 15 minutes. Most likely it'll just be delayed, underpaid and you lose a bunch in fees. Not the merchant, you.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Who takes the risk, and the benefits? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Perhaps... except that Bitpay only guarantee the rate for 15 mn, and bitcoin transaction can make much more time to be processed. Hence government also takes a share in the volatility risk.

      No, it just converts it at the current rate. Which means you can underpay and have to pay again.

      And even when BitCoin payments were taking days to transact, you can still get them done in 10 minutes - it just means you have to pay $50 in transaction fees since you set how much extra you need to pay. There's a default fee you can pay which will be handled as and when the miners get around to it.

      You have to remember that these companies are there to eliminate risk, and for risky systems like bitcoin, they do it by passing it onto you. The 15 minute guarantee is generally necessary (since it takes 10 minutes per block so they give you the opportunity if you're unlucky and then some), and even during periods of extreme volatility, 15 minute rates can be stable. Plus, they build in the risk into the exchange rate so the chance of losing money is extremely low. All this ensures they can make money on the transaction as well.

  9. Suk post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow! What a bunch of backward oriented pussys! I thought slashdot readers would be the one segment of news readers who might begin to embrace technology. And what if this guys does put some BTC into the county coffers and it moons some more, he will look brilliant and surrounding county mother fudders will be chasing his path.

    1. Re:Suk post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, smart people do not blindly embrace anything - which is what you're suggesting we do.

      Bitcoin, for all of it's wonderful anonymity, is 100% reliant on technology. 100%. If anything were to happen to the tech - and it's happened before - it's gone. Whatever you thought you owned? Gone. Toast. And if you've been stupid enough to divest yourself of physical currency, then you've (eventually) bought yourself a nice cardboard box next to the heroin addicts down the street.

  10. Taxes = Salary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So does this mean by extention it is legal to pay salary in Bitcoin as now both employer and employee can pay their taxes in Bitcoin as well.

    1. Re: Taxes = Salary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About 4 years ago, a couple of firms on Vancouver Island, and in Vancouver, BC offered employees an option of being paid in Bitcoin, or in Canadian Dollars, or in US dollars. Whichever choice you made, you were stuck with, for the duration of your employment.

  11. Re: Huh? he's Republican. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How exactly is it âoeuntraceable.â
    Not sure if trolling or just dumb.
    Also, cash IS untraceable unless youâ(TM)re implying that the billsâ(TM) serial numbers were first jotted down by the police before the âoeillegalsâ used them to pay for an ID.

  12. Re: money laundering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope this is really a honeypot to catch money launderers and tax evaders.

  13. Correct, county/merchants don't hold so no risk by perpenso · · Score: 4, Informative

    There likely is no risk, the country is probably using the same sort of bitcoin payment processors that various merchants do. When using these services the recipient never sees or touches a bitcoin, they only receive fiat. When someone indicates that they want to pay with bitcoin the payment processor is given a dollar amount, they do a real time conversion to bitcoin and provide a payment address and a coin amount, when that coin amount shows up at the address the recipient is notified and the recipient's account is credited for the exact dollar amount they original specified. The taxpayer was never exposed to any bitcoin volatility risk. The taxpayer merely paid a payment processor's fee, just like when they accept a credit card and pay a fee.

  14. Re: money laundering by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Joke's on them, I'm going to pay everything in Dogecoins. Let's see them haul five million dogecoins for tax payment.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  15. All cryptocurrencies and ICOs are scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are (any) fiat-currency and (any) cryptocurrency really equivalent, as cryptocurrency fans claim?
    For example, US Dollar and Bitcoin are really equals?
    Value/validity/authorization of US dollar is provided/guaranteed by US Government (and in-turn whole US Public)!
    Also, not to mention, US Dollars in any US Bank is insured by US Government!
    What authorization/guarantee/insurance is behind Bitcoin? Nothing!
    Sorry but that is the end of discussion then!

    Why do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is really hiding his identity, if Bitcoin is really such a great innovation?
    He is just someone does not like media/fan attention?
    Or, could it be really because Bitcoin (and all cryptocurrencies followed it) are actually Ponzi Schemes?
    (So he knew very well that law enforcement would come after him sooner or later?!)

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really good innovation, why they attract so many criminals/criminal activity?
    Could it really be because, all cryptocurrencies themselves are scams, and that is why they attract all kinds of criminals/criminal activity?

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really currency, why no company/store can use Bitcoin as currency anymore?
    Because the price of Bitcoin proved to be extremely unstable to use as a currency?
    Would the result be different, if Bitcoin replaced by any other "cryptocurrency"?
    Aren't all work the same way?

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really money; isn't people issuing their own money, illegal already, in all countries?
    If so then, why they are still not banned in all countries?

    Or, they are not actually virtual currency but virtual investment?
    But, if they are actually investment, why we need/want them?
    What would happen to world economy, if people invested in virtual investments, instead of real investments?

    Or, all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually just a modified (made decentralized and paying variable interest) Ponzi Schemes?
    (Price of cryptocurrencies would keep increasing in the long term (by their design), so it is equivalent of paying variable interest to all long term investors.)

    Also, since all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually financial scams (Ponzi Schemes), that means, they cannot be the solution for any of existing financial problems of our world!

    As more and more people invest in cryptocurrencies, it will become harder and harder to ban their trading everywhere (because people invested in cryptocurrencies, would try to stop anyone trying to ban cryptocurrencies)!
    All cryptocurrencies need to be banned globally before it is too late!

  16. "promote transparency ... in payment" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. by paying taxes or for a government id or license and forever tying your crypto wallet to your confirmed identity.

    absolutely no ulterior motive here. nope. not a chance. the feds probably looked for 'volunteers' to do just this as a 'test run'.

  17. One Solar Flare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One good solar flare is all it will take to make princes into paupers. This is why smart people will never allow this to supplant physical currency.

  18. Re: money laundering by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    CCTV of every face connected to using computer currency.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  19. Re: Crypto is awesome- but wrong place to accept i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But nobody lives in New Hampshire!!

  20. When The Law Is Not The Law by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Florida requires a concealed carry permit. You can not get a permit for openly displaying a firearm. Only cops have that privilege. So here we have a tax collector that feels tax collectors can openly display a weapon. What happened to the law being equal for all people all of the time?

  21. Flawed logic by dkman · · Score: 1

    Greenberg said accepting bitcoin and bitcoin cash as a payment method will promote transparency and accuracy in payment.

    I don't think BitCoin is what he thinks it is.

    --
    I refuse to sign