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Estonia To Become the World's First Free Public Transport Nation (citylab.com)
On July 1st, the country of Estonia will create the largest 24/7 free public transit zone in the world, making it feasibly possible to travel by bus from one end of the 1.3 million-strong Baltic nation to the other without paying a cent. CityLab reports: Estonia is already a world leader in free public transit: In 2013, all public transit in its capital, Tallinn, became free to local residents (but not tourists or other visitors, even those from other parts of the country). The new national free-ride scheme with extend this model even further, making all state-run bus travel in rural municipalities free and extending cost-free transit out from the capital into other regions. The plan will not, however, extend Tallinn's existing free public transit policies to other Estonian cities, and it also won't make riding Tallinn transit free to visitors (at least, not initially). So while most of the country's land area and population -- which is overwhelmingly concentrated around Tallinn -- should get fare-free daily lives, it's not precisely the case that no Estonian will ever buy a bus ticket in their own country again. Further reading: Pop-Up City
Given their fairly low homelessness rate (about 1/3 of US) that is not such a pressing need as it would be in some other places.
Once more, with emphasis:
Conservatives know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
if having unlimited access to transport without having to pay for it and clean air as a result of more efficient transport pays for the cost of the transportation in increased productivity and health outcomes (all that smog from personal cars is a big impact on heart health) then yes, in a sense it's "free".
Yes, everything has a cost. We're not Gods and we can't make matter and energy from nothing. But you need to consider the costs of the alternatives and that in many cases the alternatives are inevitable. It's like the American Healthcare system. We're gonna spend an extra $17 trillion on our private employer funded healthcare vs single payer in the next 10 years (much of that profits for Pharmaceuticals & health insurance companies). We could pay off the national _debt_ with that kind of dough...
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There is no such thing as free.
I know that it is a sin here on Slashdot, and this is even on Pentecost Sunday, but . . . I read TFA:
And while outsiders might assume the government’s costs to be prohibitive, it won’t actually be that expensive to implement.
That’s because Estonia’s public transit already gets extremely generous subsidies. The state-owned railway operator Elron, for example, will get a €31 million boost from taxpayers next year. The rural bus routes due to go free, meanwhile, are already subsidized to up to 80 percent of cost as it is. Making them entirely fare-less should only cost around €12.9 million ($15.2 million) more—not a vast amount for even a small country such as Estonia.
So the Estonian taxpayers are already footing most of the bill.
This idea would never float in the US. While Americans are OK with using trains and subways as public transportation . . . taking a bus is seen as something for the lower classes.
Unless it is a private Google or Facebook bus.
In Europe things are a big different and folks from all economic levels take buses. I used to work in Walldorf, Germany . . . home to SAP. Those well earning folks would take a train from scenic Heidelberg to Walldorf, and then jump on a public bus to SAP.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
So, none of those definitions apply to this Estonian system. There must be some other type of "free" the author is thinking of. It's not generous - it's paid for by mandatory taxes. It's not unrestricted, and it wasn't obtained without payment.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Generous; liberal.
Thrown open, or made accessible, to all; to be enjoyed without limitations; unrestricted; not obstructed, engrossed, or appropriated; open; said of a thing to be possessed or enjoyed.
Obtainable without any payment.
Invested with a particular freedom or franchise; enjoying certain immunities or privileges; admitted to special rights; followed by of.
So, none of those definitions apply to this Estonian system.
What? What are you smoking, how much does it cost, and what are the other side effects?
There must be some other type of "free" the author is thinking of. It's not generous
"showing kindness toward others"
I think you should consider learning to google. How old are you? How long have you been on the internets? You should know this by now.
it's paid for by mandatory taxes.
Not this "Taxation is theft" tripe again. That shit is only spewed by selfish pricks who want to justify taking and never giving.
It's not unrestricted
All citizens may use it regardless of social status, to use it to go anywhere it goes. That's quite unrestricted.
and it wasn't obtained without payment.
It is for those citizens who can't afford to pay taxes, because they are so poor. And those who can afford to pay the most are (theoretically of course) charged the most to maintain the system. They derive benefit from it even if they don't use it; public transportation alleviates traffic congestion, when it is actually used. And eliminating payment requirements means it will be used more.
You are wrong in every way it is possible to be wrong. Welcome to Slashdot, I guess.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Conservatives know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
If the price doesn't reflect the value then you're doing it wrong.
If you don't know what the value is, how could you possibly determine whether the value is accurately reflected by the price?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In Europe things are a big different and folks from all economic levels take buses. I used to work in Walldorf, Germany . . . home to SAP. Those well earning folks would take a train from scenic Heidelberg to Walldorf, and then jump on a public bus to SAP.
In the USA, I don't want to take a bus, because they are dirty boxes filled with filthy heathens. When I was in Panama, I used buses more than rental cars or taxis. People were in general quite polite and helpful there, and their long-distance buses were universally nicer than Greyhounds. It's not that I'm allergic to buses. I just know what being on them is like in this country, and I'm not interested. I grew up riding the bus everywhere to which I didn't bike or walk, because we were poor AF. Miss me with that shit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Another thing to note is that people who walked from place to place may be tempted to take public transit.
This is bad for transit (higher crowding) and bad for the city (less street-side commerce, higher centralization of commerce, less vibrant street).
Your argument doesn't hold up.
Within the city of Tallin, public transport was already free. It doesn't seem to have caused the problems you describe.
And I doubt your argument applies outside of Tallin, as Villages and Towns usually are not really in walking distance.
Estonia is not a poor country. Per capita GDP there is close to France and higher than Portugal.
For some reason, this made me think that it would be like the whole nation was conveyor belts, just step on and go anywhere. Obviously, this is is true of any nation with roads, but the "free" thing makes a psychological difference: you spend money to go places you have a need to go, but if it's free, you might wander anywhere aimlessly, like a man out for a walk.
The conveyor belt image sent me over to my Heinlein collection to carefully re-read the start of "The Roads Must Roll", confirming what I'd suspected: Heinlein never mentions payment. The entrance to the Road lacks all toll-booths or other mentions of payment. Indeed, how could there be when he describes that you can get on anywhere, just step on the outer 5MPH strip going by, and work your way inward to faster strips if you aren't travelling locally. There are, however, many paragraphs expended clarifying that the whole economy is dependent on them, and they re-designed all their cities around them.
I think Mr. TANSTAAFL actually proposed that moving mechanical roads would be like the asphalt roads they replaced: just free for all to use. The same concept of "public road" that every government ever had to maintain (at great public expense, your city streets department is likely more expensive than either water or sewer) just had the cost of maintaining mechanism tacked on. They already had to up the roads budget 500% to install and maintain asphalt instead of dirt decades ago, this is just the same increase again as society became another 500% richer from the "Douglas-Martin Sunpower screens" and so forth.
Pigeonholing Heinlein as a libertarian, or militarist, or whatever, was never wise; the guy had his opinions, but his imagination that roamed over all sorts of ideas always ruled over that when he had an idea he couldn't resist.
Homeless shelters on wheels, decreasing quality, running out of money... all things that were expected when this was implemented in Tallinn. None of that actually happened, it worked out great. Buses are on time, go pretty much everywhere and are as clean as ever, it totally works. Mind you, this scheme was cooked up by a political party I otherwise despise, I guess even a blind man hits a bulls-eye every now and then. Of course, its not free as air, its just payed out of your taxes, but as far as use of your taxes go - it's a pretty good one.
You need to keep in mind that setting aside who pays for it, public transportation is just cheaper than a car in every way. You need less infrastructure and roads are expensive, a bus just takes less room than equivalent amount of cars, on roads and on parking lots. A bus itself is cheaper than equivalent number of cars, as Estonia has to import both, public transport is good for import/export balance. Buses use less fuel per passenger than cars, again something you don't need to import as much. And the improved air quality is worth something too.
From state perspective, more public transport is a very good thing and if done right its pretty convenient for a citizen too. You can look at it as extra tax on car owners, not a very big tax at that.
Most probably not. My bet is that they are IYI's who might know what a few parts cost but neither have any idea of how these parts interact with the whole, nor the cost of denying people who aren't fortunate to be able to afford the thing directly. IOW, stupid twats who can't think any further than their own wallet and the immediate future, like the next two seconds.
"Conservative: prick, selfish, reactionary, regressive, hypocrite, bigoted, narrow-minded, useless".
Ever been to Europe? Many of the larger cities do have suburbs, and while they are less sprawling and (much) better served by public transport than those in the USA, most people living there still find themselves in need of owning a car. Even people in the cities themselves own cars for a variety of reasons: most often people find that travelling by car is faster and more convenient when travelling between cities or from and to the suburbs, even in heavy traffic.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Is it really that bad everywhere? I took buses around town a few years ago when visiting Austin. They were sort of clean and the people riding them seemed normal enough, if not especially affluent. Pretty much the same as buses back home in the Netherlands.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
You would think, but that is also a very narrow view, especially after actually visiting Tallinn.
Train is not as important as light rail(actual rail, and busses with power wires on top), combined with flexible bus routes.
A quick summary would read something like:
As a former communist nation, Estonia has a spread out infrastructure, with a lot of smaller towns surrounding Tallinn, and a lot of space between the populated areas and the industrial areas. A Soviet war insurance one could call it, but not centralizing the population centers, but rather rely in infrastructure for the expansions. This results in that even in a expanding city as Tallinn, there is a lot of space left to expand upon, and a lot of existing infrastructure that already is capable of some massive expansions.
The entire point of the free public infrastructure is for "borgers", or "Citizens" or "Headhunted foreign IT workers". Which means the company can acquire a space that do not need a lot of parking, and settle the workers around the cities tram lines. Which means that even with massive expansion, there is not a insane housing inflation, and Tallinn can freely expand, and even have entire enclaves of Scandinavs, Balts, Finns and Icelanders who want to experience a new world of IT, working abroad, for a few years. And they would move there, because quality of living combined with wages and housing cost is competitive with hellholes like Oslo or Stockholm, even more so with free city wide transportation.
And it has another great benefit: You now have a massive infrastructure that can also be used for tourism.
You go to Estonian, and basically pay a symbolic sum free usage of all transportation inside of Tallinn. It was amazing, even if you needed a phone app to avoid dealing with the horrible maps at each station.
And this has been tested since 2013, so either they want to puff up other areas of Estonian for off shoring, or they realized the costs are worth it for the convenience & commerce it brings its citizens.