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UK Military Fears Robots Learning War From Video Games (bbc.com)

Posted by msmash on from the skeptical-hat dept.

Robots that train themselves in battle tactics by playing video games could be used to mount cyber-attacks, the UK military fears. From a report: The warning is in a Ministry of Defence report on artificial intelligence. Researchers in Silicon Valley are using strategy games, such as Starcraft II, to teach systems how to solve complex problems on their own. But artificial intelligence (AI) programs can then "be readily adapted" to wage cyber-warfare, the MoD says. Officials are particularly concerned about the ability of rogue states and terrorists to mount advanced persistent threat attacks, which can disable critical infrastructure and steal sensitive information.

42 of 68 comments (clear)

  1. Then don't arm them by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    The so-called 'AI' they keep using for everything isn't even fully up to the job of operating a vehicle safely, and as if that isn't enough of a weapon to put these machines in charge of, some idiot wants to actually arm them with actual weapons of war? Utter stupidity. Just don't do it at all, problem solved.

    1. Re:Then don't arm them by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      If we don't do it, someone else will. We need to do it for the same reason we keep an arsenal of nuclear weapons - to deter others from attacking us.

      And don't even get me started on the necessity for defense from aliens.

    2. Re:Then don't arm them by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      Fine. Know what? There are idiots who want to ban all of us from driving, force us all into Level-5 SDCs. Fuck that, let's ban humans from war. Make it all into Battlebots but with explosives. No one need die in war again. But we shouldn't have humans fighting robots in a real-world war. Of course that's precisely what'll end up happening, won't it? We humans, we're getting dumber and dumber, aren't we? We don't LEARN.

    3. Re:Then don't arm them by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      The so-called 'AI' they keep using for everything isn't even fully up to the job of operating a vehicle safely,

      I don't know. Google's car has an almost spotless record. Tesla's isn't supposed to be fully automatic, it's supposed to have a human ready to override. Most of their problems is because of humans trusting it more than it is ready to be trusted.

      Uber... well, anyone that trusts Uber is a fool. Uber is corrupt and driven by the bottom line, I wouldn't expect safety to be high priority with them.

      In truth, for 80% of driving conditions, Waymo is probably already much safer than a human.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:Then don't arm them by Kjella · · Score: 3, Informative

      But we shouldn't have humans fighting robots in a real-world war. Of course that's precisely what'll end up happening, won't it?

      Far more civilians than military die in modern war and we've lived 70+ years with the threat of entire cities being nuked into oblivion. If you're spending billions on a Terminator it's to kill with extreme precision, carnage is much cheaper.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Then don't arm them by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      Just don't do it at all, problem solved.

      You'd feel better if only your enemies use this technology ?

    6. Re:Then don't arm them by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Precision? How do we know precision is part of the program? Dominance is the program, likely. It's the end-game.

      Ultimately, there is no need for war, no need for stockpiles of weapons. It is a legacy of our animal origins coupled with too much testosterone.

      Leaders gin up false enemies, or go to war over oil or other assets they covet.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    7. Re:Then don't arm them by nagora · · Score: 1

      You do understand that a drone with a machine gun isn't supposed to be safe, don't you?

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    8. Re:Then don't arm them by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      You do understand that a drone with a machine gun isn't supposed to be safe, don't you?

      I sit here shaking my head wondering what kind of world we live in when we even have to contemplate a line like this.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
  2. Easily fixed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nothing that a tiny bit of EMP can't fix, just as it can easily fix many of these new tech problems.

    1. Re:Easily fixed by Colourspace · · Score: 1

      This is real end of thread stuff, folks.

  3. All this from playing Warcraft? by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But artificial intelligence (AI) programs can then "be readily adapted" to wage cyber-warfare, the MoD says. Officials are particularly concerned about the ability of rogue states and terrorists to mount advanced persistent threat attacks

    How do you equate becoming good at a Real-time Strategy or Shoot-em-up game with being able to be a good hacker?

    Unless the Cyber-war threat you're worried about is AIs being developed to exploit glitches in current online games such as Fortnite or PubG and rising to the top of the rankings, then I'm sure AIs that can be taught video games are pretty far away from being an AI that can be leveraged by cyberterrorists to engage in automatic "warfare"

    1. Re:All this from playing Warcraft? by Spinlock_1977 · · Score: 1

      I agree - there's little to no connection between being a Team Fortress DemoMan and hacking JPL's science database.

      --
      - The Kessel run is for nerf herders. I can circumnavigate the entire Central Finite Curve in a lot less than 12 parse
    2. Re:All this from playing Warcraft? by mea2214 · · Score: 1

      How do you equate becoming good at a Real-time Strategy or Shoot-em-up game with being able to be a good hacker?

      Watch the movie "War Games."

    3. Re:All this from playing Warcraft? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They saw that documentary "Hackers" and realised that hacking over an acoustically coupled public phone is pretty much just like playing a video game.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:All this from playing Warcraft? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Watch the movie "War Games."

      I saw that a long time ago, but "War Games" is only a work of fiction; not even a close approximation to how machine learning works --- general purpose AI is FAR beyond our capabilities at the moment. Machine learning is essentially an application of statistical classification (math) --- These programs don't become sentient or capable of exercising any kind of control or autonomy independent of their domain-specific purpose; becoming strategic at one task does not really translate to other tasks within different domains, And the ability of an agent to take actions outside the scope of what they are specifically programmed and trained for is essentially nonexistent.

  4. A sure sign by BinBoy · · Score: 2

    When robots start bunny hopping, spamming grenades and talking crap after they kill someone.

  5. Just what we need by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Killer robots bunny-hopping and dolphin-diving all over the battlefield....And oh god, the spawn camping......

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Just what we need by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      And oh god, the spawn camping Could be worse: camp spawning without Kenneth Williams! ???

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  6. Re:Fear AI learning war from games by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    Because then they'll think give-up and re-spawn is a valid option when things are going south.

    Or they'll expect us to send all our weakest troops against them first and gradually send more and more powerful troops until finally- as they get close to victory against us we'll send Theresa May against them for a final boss fight. Only May will grow 50ft tall and regenerate some health between each missile that strikes her and she'll have flame throwers coming out of her arms.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  7. They also fear... by technosaurus · · Score: 1

    Revolutions in masonry construction via Tetris.
    Innovation in planetary defense through Missile Command.
    Solution to the traveling salesman problem from Adventures of Lolo.
    Am I the only one who gets the feeling that certain video games are recruitment tools, like that 80s movie...The Last Starfighter (IIRC)

    1. Re:They also fear... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who gets the feeling that certain video games are recruitment tools, like that 80s movie...The Last Starfighter.

      That was a good movie, at least when I watched it as a kid. I remember thinking "we'll never had graphics this good on our home game systems". LOL stupid younger me.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:They also fear... by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who gets the feeling that certain video games are recruitment tools, like that 80s movie...The Last Starfighter (IIRC)

      Nope. Hideo Kojima agrees with you. Go play MGS4. Not a main plot element, but definitely part of the plot that PMCs use video games to indoctrinate youth.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
  8. Re:Chess by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Or maybe Tic-Tac-Toe?

  9. Fearmongering for overreach by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    is what this sounds like. They're after something. e.g. they want to clamp down on some right or another or to distract from a real issue (e.g. an economic one). It's too patently absurd to be anything else.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Fearmongering for overreach by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How easy would it be to install stolen military AI on a homemade battle bot (or drone)? This is what they fear.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    2. Re:Fearmongering for overreach by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      They're after something.

      Like another reason to blame violence on video games?

      --
      I tend to rant.
  10. Re:Chess by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  11. Trash talking your mother by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    The AI will spend the entire time trash talking and insulting your mother.

  12. Because, you know, ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... there's no way to develop a goddam AI system to stop this shit.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  13. Re:Fear AI learning war from games by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Or they'll expect us to send all our weakest troops against them first and gradually send more and more powerful troops until finally- as they get close to victory against us we'll send Theresa May against them for a final boss fight. Only May will grow 50ft tall and regenerate some health between each missile that strikes her and she'll have flame throwers coming out of her arms.

    Hey, the brexiters won. Don't knock it if it works.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  14. let's play global thermonuclear war by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    What side do you want?

    1. United States
    2. Russia
    3. United Kingdom
    4. France
    5. China
    6. India
    7. Pakistan
    8. North Korea
    9. Israel

  15. I can hear it now by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    "Sir, I'm sorry to say we couldn't stop the enemy. Our ninja goats failed, it turns out, because their tongues snapped off. Testing them on Goat Simulator was a mistake."

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  16. Doesn't need to by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

    There's much more efficient ways than all-out warfare. Any AI capable of "learning war" is certainly capable of knowing better. Cmon now.

    --
    I tend to rant.
  17. Apples and Oranges -- AI's Big Weakness by Slicker · · Score: 1

    Machine Learning and other standard forms of pattern recognition in the field of Artificial Intelligence are limited to the identification and use of specifically targeted controls and objectives/goals. For example in image classification, it can only learn to identify images it is trained to identify. In a video game, it can only use controls it is given and objectives/goals it is trained to use them to achieve. And it is very machine-like: it will blindly seek those objectives/goals regardless of anything.

    So in Cyber Security, art plays a big role. AI may systematically find vulnerabilities and play them but the same methods may be used to find them and seal them. AI cannot think outside the box, as is necessary in an art. It cannot learn to identify new kinds of controls or objectives/goals, as per a "purpose". There is no curiosity or reasoning by analogy that could get it ahead. It's has great strengths but just as great are its weaknesses.

  18. Whoowee. by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    That's it. I'm selling my computer and buying a Bible because only Jesus can save us now.

    1. Re:Whoowee. by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      You want to be saved by a 2000 year old mushroom cult? Good luck with that.

  19. Counter-intel games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    AI is a pipe dream for the Military. Remote-piloted war-fighting systems, on the other hand, are completely up to the task. They are likely getting pretty mature in development too.

    A good strategy may be to keep your enemies chasing tail trying to keep up with your fictional AI that you keep giving press while quietly perfecting your remotely piloted systems.

    It's not like there is any shortage of manpower. Soldiers train day and night for high level skills, then spend 90% of their time mopping floors and drilling pomp and ceremony. Computer augmented remote piloted systems are the future.

    I guess a smart-drone-swarm may count as AI, as the flight computer is automated, but at the other end, there is still a trained human pilot giving directions.

    There is more to war than weapons development. This latest military AI craze smacks of excellent counter intel work to me.

  20. Re:Fear AI learning war from games by Megane · · Score: 1

    I'll get worried when they start doing zerg rushes. And you'll know things have gone too far when they start dabbing on the battlefield.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  21. Re:Chess by mcswell · · Score: 1

    Is this a game or is it real?

    What's the difference?

  22. That's because... by mcswell · · Score: 1

    ...you have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan armada.

  23. Teabagging by Daralantan · · Score: 1

    And now, thanks to the internet, the robot armies will teabag every human they kill. BALLS OF STEEEEEEEEL.