Slashdot Mirror
NYC Transit Boss Unveils Sweeping 10-Year Subway Modernization Plan (nbcnewyork.com)
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) on Wednesday unveiled a sweeping plan to modernize the city's subway system over the next 10 years. From a report: The proposal, which new New York City Transit President Andy Byford called "Fast Forward," centers on overhauling the mass transit network's signaling system -- some of which dates back to the early 20th century -- 30 years sooner than current Subway Action Plan.
But it won't come without a good bit of pain: sources told News 4 that Byford's plan would require entire lines to be taken out of service during overnight and weekend hours for extended periods. Byford -- who took over the task of running the city's subways and buses earlier this year -- said in an MTA meeting Wednesday that the work would be split into two five-year chunks. Over the first five years parts or all of the 4,5, 6, E, F, M, R, A, C, E and G lines would receive modern signaling systems. That would include the entirety of the Lexington Avenue line, which carries the 4, 5 and 6 trains and is the most-used mass transit line in the United States.
But it won't come without a good bit of pain: sources told News 4 that Byford's plan would require entire lines to be taken out of service during overnight and weekend hours for extended periods. Byford -- who took over the task of running the city's subways and buses earlier this year -- said in an MTA meeting Wednesday that the work would be split into two five-year chunks. Over the first five years parts or all of the 4,5, 6, E, F, M, R, A, C, E and G lines would receive modern signaling systems. That would include the entirety of the Lexington Avenue line, which carries the 4, 5 and 6 trains and is the most-used mass transit line in the United States.
"Byford's plan would require entire lines to be taken out of service during overnight and weekend hours for extended periods."
Every time I've visited NYC on the weekend, a line is down, or a station, or a platform, or a train, or *something*, pretty much everywhere. How would this be different?
I have an idea: replace the existing octagonal wheels with ten-sided wheels!
Does the NYC subway still use 25Hz power for lighting in some stations ? I remember when I use to take the subway to school that I could see the incandescent lights flicker due to the 25Hz power being supplied to them.
. . . and the taxi companies increase rates along the closed subway lines . . .
. . . oh, wait . . . that's Über!
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The CBTC (aka the signal improvements) on the 7 train, which were supposed to take 7 years (chosen because it was the 2nd easiest line to do) has taken 10 years (aka 3 years late) and STILL not working
The 7 train extension, started in 2007, supposed to be finished in 2013 had one station dropped, and STILL took till Sept 2015 (aka about 50% over)
We won't talk about the fact that the Second Ave Subway took 99 YEARS from when it was first proposed till when it opened, and was "fully funded" by bond issues at least 3 times
NOTHING gets done in 10 years by the MTA
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
NYC subways basically are Musk's (non hyper) loop with longer vehicles. Interesting idea would be to run shorter trains more frequently. This is possible with the right signaling especially if a driver and conductor aren't needed.
Cars still have four wheels just like the Model T in 1908... not like the trains are running on steam/coal power directly.
About 80% of the subway lines in NYC pass through Wall Street. G train is included in phase 1, and it doesn't even pass through Manhattan. The F is also included, and it's a feeder to Queens.
By unions 'bleeding' you mean people get fair pay and humane working conditions for a hard job? How about we take away the cars, limousines and helicopters from wealthy 1% in Manhattan and see how quickly the MTA gets fixed. It's a really fucking busy system that got deluged by a hurricane not that long ago. The narrative that the MTA is a financial sinkhole is a conservative lie. Millions of people depend on it daily, and while sure, it isn't perfect, it's been underfunded for decades and STILL works.
Compared to Europe, Australia, and I imagine most developed countries, riding the subway in New York feels like you're in a 3rd world country. I get that "cars are king" for most of the US, but in New York City, where there's an obvious need for mass transit, and insanely expensive real estate above those tracks, it's shocking that the state of mass transit below ground seems stuck in the 20th century.
www.gaiageek.com
(n/t)
If you take your car you hit construction zones and if you take the subway you hit construction zones. Why can you do?
The standard rule of thumb for public projects is that the final cost will be three times the initial approved budget, and the schedule will slip by a factor of two. Unfortunately, we are "locked in" to this system of unrealistic lowballing. If the actual cost was used in the initial proposal, people would would assume the "real" cost was three times that, and the project would never get approved.
So if the public is being told 10 years and $19B, the final outcome will likely be about 20 years and $57B.
Next you're going to propose that all the sides should be equilateral.
Also, only a few lines of the subway was deluged, and those are being repaired over the next few years. The changes discussed in TFA are separate.
Building the entire first section of the IRT line in Manhattan cost about $8 million; adjusted for inflation that's $230 million, a fraction of the cost to upgrade the signals. It took less time to build from City Hall to 145th St. (nearly the whole length N-S) then it will take to update the signals. This is *pathetic*. While I'm generally pro-union, that's a large part of why it's gotten so bad-- like the report that exposed things like a 2 person job having 5 more guys paid to just stand around, and out of control overtime. It absolutely is a giant sinkhole.
The upgrade could easily and cheaply be done if you just shut off the system for 6 months. The problem is that it is being done on a system that continues to run 24/7. When you are working in tunnels with live wires and incoming trains, you need people to "stand around" doing nothing more then ensuring safety
NYC is the one U.S. city that is completely and totally dependent on subways. It would not continue to function normally if even a single important line were shut down for a nontrivial period of time. Night/weekend closures, though they aggravate me (I'm rarely in NYC *except* on weekends), are about the most that can be done without inflicting total chaos.
Nonaggression works!
Manhattan and much of Brooklyn have been cleaned up obviously, and Staten Island was never too bad. But bits of the S,. Bronx, Flatbush, East New York, etc. are still as lawless as ever.
Nonaggression works!
By unions 'bleeding' you mean people get fair pay and humane working conditions for a hard job? How about we take away the cars, limousines and helicopters from wealthy 1% in Manhattan and see how quickly the MTA gets fixed. It's a really fucking busy system that got deluged by a hurricane not that long ago. The narrative that the MTA is a financial sinkhole is a conservative lie. Millions of people depend on it daily, and while sure, it isn't perfect, it's been underfunded for decades and STILL works.
You really have no clue...or are a union shill.
The MTA hemorrhages money yet every time something doesn't work because they failed to modernize it 30+ years ago they come with their hand out for more money. Also, they are a private agency so their books are closed and no one can examine them to see what they're actually paying/spending.
A living wage, sure. I support that. $100k+ for someone who can't even make clear announcements on the newer PA systems? Yeah, nope. Or how about the countless examples of work crews of a dozen or more (plus another half dozen down the track as a 'warning crew' for trains despite the track not being energized) with MAYBE two people doing actual work adjusting a signal or similar?
No. You won't sell a fairy tale about the MTA providing reasonable compensation for a reasonable job to anyone who actually lives in/around NYC and sees the ridiculous corruption, huge waste, enormous over-payment, endless overtime/disability abuse, and scam contracts etc. that go on and on and on with the MTA.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
Yeah? How about when they DO have a line shut down and STILL have warning crews (apparently 3 people on either side) doing nothing? Well, there's technically one guy holding the orange flag so that counts as doing something until they inevitably wedge it somewhere and go back to doing completely nothing.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.