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Silicon Valley's Tech Bubble Is Now Larger Than In 2000. Will It Come To An End? (cnbc.com)

"We are now officially in a tech bubble larger than March of 2000," argues Keith Wright, instructor of accounting and information services at the Villanova School of Business. An anonymous reader quotes his commentary on CNBC: In case you missed it, the peak in the tech unicorn bubble already has been reached. And it's going to be all downhill from here. Massive losses are coming in venture capital-funded start-ups that are, in some cases, as much as 50 percent overvalued... 76% of the companies that went public last year were unprofitable on a per-share basis in the year leading up to their initial offerings, according to data compiled by Jay Ritter, a professor at the University of Florida's Warrington College of Business, and recently featured in the New York Times. This is the largest number since the peak of the dot-com boom in 2000, when 81 percent of newly public companies were unprofitable...

Several financial models project that up to 80 percent of unicorn companies are set to fail within two years. Uber, the highest-valued private technology company, has rapidly growing revenue but remains highly unprofitable. With revenue of $6.5 billion in 2016, it still registered a net loss of $2.8 billion. The truth is, when a unicorn is overvalued, it doesn't take long for the market to discover this fact.

22 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Whole lotta money going on... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bottom line (sorry) - there is a metric shitload of capital out there waiting to make more capital. Since that's all that kind of person (or corporation, but I repeat myself) really worries about.

    It's ALL about dealing with increasing growth. Which then becomes an exponential function.

    Which, in the real world, typically don't end well.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:Whole lotta money going on... by HornWumpus · · Score: 5, Funny

      I do give Uber a little credit for actual innovation. Buy staying private for so long, they have apparently been able to financially sodomize the VCs. Can't happen to a more deserving group.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Whole lotta money going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I do give Uber a little credit for actual innovation.

      For having an app written to hail an unlicensed cap?

      THAT is one of the problems of Silly Valley - perceived innovation where there isn't any.

    3. Re:Whole lotta money going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      End-to-end, the Uber experience is superior in every way (for the customer) than a "licensed" cab. The established players failed to innovate, and now are crying foul.

    4. Re:Whole lotta money going on... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Disagree. I don't need a smartphone to hail a taxi. Built-in equipment (i.e. my hand) will do. I can pay cash and not have my origin and destination tied to a name, CC#, email, phone, and address in a database. True, I might be photographed, but facial recognition isn't typically used for those photos unless a crime was committed.

    5. Re:Whole lotta money going on... by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the US that works in 1 city- New York. And even then only really in Manhattan. If you live in a suburb, or in Queens, and you're trying to flag a cab down I hope you have a few hours. Even in Chicago there isn't a sufficient mass of cabs anywhere other than downtown to make that work.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  2. Bubble or not, we are DUE for a correction by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the second longest the US has gone without a recession, per the roughly decade-long "business cycle" that's been recurring more or less since the end of the Civil War. Thus, something will probably happen within a year or two. The only real question is how big the downturn will be, and what sectors will be most affected.

    1. Re:Bubble or not, we are DUE for a correction by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 2

      As much as I disliked HFT I wonder if that may have something to do with the longevity of this cycle. Kind of like ABS on the car, and to push the car analogy further, as long as the driver is not being unreasonable about where he takes the car, maybe the HFT/ABS can help stay on course in moments of danger.

      A bubble burst and a recession is a natural means to purge inefficient businesses. Maybe HFTs slow down the buildup of inefficiencies.

    2. Re:Bubble or not, we are DUE for a correction by kentrel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What are you talking about? The US has been in a depression for 10 years with less than 3% GDP growth. Forbes called 2009-2013 the "worst five years since the Great Depression". If anything America is due for a boom.

    3. Re:Bubble or not, we are DUE for a correction by GrimSavant · · Score: 2

      We're somewhere close to full employment, what we are in now is what counts as the "boom". I'd guess that the depth of the downturn after the real estate bubble and the slowness of the recovery are contributors to as to why we haven't had a recession in so long. The basic definition for a recession is 2 quarters in a row of negative GDP growth. The original Great Depression actually had 2 technical recessions in its timeframe, the first one was by the worst and deepest.

  3. Silicon Valley is too big to fail . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    . . . they'll get a government bailout like the auto and banking industries.

    The government should have broken up GM when they bailed them out . . . making the smaller bits small enough to fail.

    Maybe the government will break up Silicon Valley . . . sending bits and pieces of Silicon Valley to Arkansas, Alaska and Mississippi . . . ?

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Silicon Valley is too big to fail . . . by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The tax cuts don't really affect startups, so maybe not. You have to make a profit for it to help you.

      The "bubble" is not in the profitability of the companies. It is in their valuation on the stock, bond and VC markets, which has been driven in large part by the cut in capital gains taxes and cuts in marginal rates for the investment class.

      When you hear about a tech "bubble", don't think, "companies are making more money than they should". Instead, think, "companies are being valued higher than they should".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Silicon Valley is too big to fail . . . by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Then, why is the US at full employment if it isn't working,

      It isn't. Try reading up on the labor participation rate. The actual unemployment rate is somewhere between the U-6 unemployment rate (7.4%) and the inverse of the labor participation rate. It is absolutely, certainly actually over 10%.

      and billions of dollars of bonuses being handed out?

      Since when has that ever had anything to do with anything? For example, We The People have paid the telecoms billions of dollars to build out the last mile, and they've given it out in executive bonuses instead.

      There is no bubble here, it is just some housecleaning which has made the economy even better, similar to how Reagan got the US out of the permanent stagflation of the 1970s and made one of the most prosperous times in US and world history.

      You misspelled "the largest increase in debt in US history" there, champ. Reagan's policies also shrunk the middle class, leading to further, future economic distress. Cutting taxes was wrong; that money should have been spent paying down the debt.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Silicon Valley is too big to fail . . . by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Easy to "cut" the unemployment numbers when tens of millions of people exit the work force, unvoluntarily. When the labor force participation rate starts to swing back up, then we'll know we're starting to achieve real full employment.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  4. Of course... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Funny

    Profitability is so ... common.

    We need more companies like Theranos, Uber, Tesla ... the profitable companies you probably haven't heard off.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    1. Re:Of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Profitability is so ... common.

      We need more companies like Theranos, Uber, Tesla ... the profitable companies you probably haven't heard off.

      If I were on an investment website, I'd laugh. But here on Slashdot, I don't know if you're serious or not.

      There are still plenty of people who will insist that Tesla isn't losing money because they are "building up" - even though Musk NEVER said such a thing - ever.

      He has used the "building up" excuse for the negative cash flows from investing, but that's it. He NEVER said that Tesla wasn't losing money - ever.

      The TTB - Tesla True Believers - have become just as delusional as any religious cult.

    2. Re:Of course... by fred911 · · Score: 2

      "The TTB - Tesla True Believers - have become just as delusional as any religious cult."

        I agree the market cap is ridiculous but that's how the market priced it. It's not about the cars, it's about producing energy storage product. It won't be too long before we'll see they own that market.

        "Place your bets" -- do you want to bet against that guy, seriously?

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  5. This time it's different.. by h8sg8s · · Score: 2

    This time it's different.. At least that's what they always say. This go-round we don't have DogFood.com kinds of crap circulating but we do have too much VC money searching out ever more marginal "disruptors" in ever more narrow markets. What's more likely to happen than a generalized tech recession is the VC money will suddenly wise up and decide to sit out the plunge and catch the next cycle on the upswing.

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
  6. startups always had a high failure rate. by gravewax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    as much 50% overvalued? companies during the dotcom boom where hundreds of percent over valued, some 1000% percent plus and they were not the little startups either. Companies like Cisco lost near 90% of their market value. maybe total values are at the same level but the insane overvalue isn't quite their yet, though with some we are rapidly approaching it. It isn't the startups that should scare you it is when the so called bluechips are overvalued.

  7. Full employment by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 2

    I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but I am skeptical of the 'full employment' situation. I think there's a large population of highly qualified people working low paying 'underemployment' jobs.

    I think this is why there is no large wage inflation in the bottom half of the labor market. Companies are still not competing for workers. There are tons of people still looking for a better/additional job.

    I also think this is why all the help wanted adds I see still have an exhaustive list of qualifications for every job. Employers can still be picky.

    My two cents.

  8. Its the game.. by thesupraman · · Score: 2

    There is NOT a shitload of Capital, there is a shitload of Debt..

    The markets (and governments) have been allowed to create unfettered inflation, and hide it by making sure the money flows to the top and is locked up before it directly effects consumer pricing (as strongly as it should). This is happening internationally.

    The effect is to inflate away the value of the middle classes assets, making them look stupid if they dont invest in the boom-de-jour.
    At the same time borrowing rates are being forced lower and lower, to get the same people to borrow to keep funding the game.
    What happens at the end? when the productive middle classes have nothing left to suck out, and debt is everything?
    THAT is the big question that is approaching. This is one of the reasons public and private forces are working hard to remove 'cash', as
    it allows black market trading for the middle classes, and therefore as escape from total ownership.

    Most likely the first round of results are higher and higher asset taxes, initially tied to capital gains, but soon moved to base asset ownership,
    to squeeze out the last drops of ownership from the middle class, transforming the majority in to zero asset sustenance renters.
    A larger and larger state/public class living above those, who gift themselves a better class of life 'because they are working to help', along with
    more and more complex rules and punishments to keep the serfs in line and validate the existence of the state.
    The real rich at the top are of course beyond that, and already have invested in high class boltholes all around the world. Most are not playing
    this game for more money (they have enough), but because they are addicted to the game - its all just a competition with their peers. they know
    they are above the state, so are not particularly concerned.

  9. Yes, but it'll take longer by ErichTheRed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The first dotcom boom had something this one doesn't serving as a brake on growth...getting big fast (the model for all startups) came at a massive cost. Building out data centers, paying for Internet traffic, etc. This second dotcom boom has the cloud. As a result it's going to take a lot longer to deflate...or get even bigger before it pops which will cause more damage.

    Back around 1999/2000, if a startup was a truly dumb idea, investors would be much less likely to fund their expansion and you'd see a natural thinning of the herd. This time, a startup only has to bring in enough money to pay the monthly cloud bill and can continue expanding for a longer time. They're starting to ship 50-pound bags of dog food for free like pets.com did, simply because they have more money on hand to burn. They're able to hire more workers and pay them exorbitant salaries to stay ahead in a "talent arms race." And, they're able to exist in a money-losing status for much longer because as long as they pay the cloud and the SaaS vendors, they're in business.

    The 90s bubble was about eyeballs, and this one is about monetizing personal information generated by those little supercomputers everyone carries with them. There seems to be an infinite amount of room in the market for hundreds of copycat subscription-box services, "Tinder for X", "Uber for Y", you name it. Oh, and don't forget blockchain enabled, AI-powered dog treat box selection algorithms powered by your Facebook posts of your dog pictures.

    Will it end? You betcha. Will it end quickly? I doubt it...there's a much lower barrier to entry and the capital markets seem unwilling to weed out the copycats.