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In China's Booming Tech Scene, Women Battle Sexism and Conservative Values (reuters.com)

In recent years, even as China's tech industry has boomed, many women say they make far less than their male counterpart for the same job. An anonymous reader shares a report: Reuters spoke to more than a dozen women -- and some men -- in the sector, from entry-level employees to executives, who described an industry where female engineers and coders battle against ingrained biases favoring men. "The traditional view is simply to think that women aren't suitable to be programmers," said Chen Bin, a former Microsoft engineer and the Beijing-based founder of Teach Girls Coding, a campaign to get more women into the sector. "Things are better now than ten years ago, but overall the number of women getting into tech is really small," he said.

China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.

10 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Why the comparison? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comparing to America? Why? It is supremely idiotic to believe America is some shining beacon of women's rights.

    Compared to China, it is. America has its "#metoo" movement, while China has its "#woyeshi" movement. But there is a big difference: The Chinese women that have outed sexual abusers in powerful positions have nearly all done it from OUTSIDE CHINA, where they feel safe from retaliation. It is only after they have permanent residency overseas that they finally feel free to speak out.

  2. Re:Why the comparison? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ever heard of false rape accusations where the female accusers almost never get punished?

    This seems to be a common misconception.

    In a rape case it is often very hard to prove what happened. There is often little or no evidence and witnesses. The standard for criminal convictions is "beyond a reasonable doubt" in most places and it can be quite hard to reach that bar.

    But that also means that if the accused is found not guilty, it doesn't necessarily mean that the accuser lied, and even if they did it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt for them to be punished. Since most of these cases are just two opposing accounts of events being tested through questioning, it is rare for there to be provable lies that cannot be accounted for as poor memory or stress under questioning.

    So the very same rules that are there to protect the accused also protect the accuser, even if the allegation is false.

    Prosecutions for fake allegations, "perverting the course of justice" as it is known in the UK, and purgery do happen. But the bar for conviction has to be high, and has to be the same for everyone. Ironically you seem to be feeling the same frustration that rape victims often do, i.e. that it is so hard to prove and get a conviction.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. Re:Why the comparison? by Kartu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Erin Pizzey, the founder of the first shelter for the victims of domestic violence, had to run after getting death threats from the feminists for daring to state that violence is not a gender issue and more than 60% of women in her shelters where themselves violent.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Now, applying "gamergate was about harassing some random people out there including those who have literally nothing to do with anything, bar being victims" logic, we can conclude, that feminist movement is about harassment.

  4. Re:Why the comparison? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is Anita Sarkeesian endorsing Alex Mandossian. Alex Madnossian is basically a pick-up artist of Internet marketing. His attitude towards his victims is completely fucked up. He is a manipulative scammer and it is not hard to find the parallels in what Sarkeesian has been doing to get her position. That is a very manipulative and dishonest woman. It speaks volumes about you that you defend her.

  5. Re:Why the comparison? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Finland literally just had a case where man sat in prison for nine months for rape before his accuser according to the biggest newspaper in the country "found God and confessed to the police that she lied about it".

    He's still fighting in court to get his criminal record expunged of this. She was just given a small fine, told to return some of the money he had to pay her for her suffering and a suspended sentence with some community service on top of it. She won't spend a day in jail over this.

    https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-...

    Welcome to progressive concept of "equality" of sexes, where there's the arbeit macht frei men and ubermensch women.

  6. What "conservative values" are they battling? by exabrial · · Score: 2, Informative

    What "conservative values" are they battling? Sexism isn't a conservative value you twat.

    1. Re:What "conservative values" are they battling? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      In China the traditional gender roles are much stronger than they are in more progressive western countries. A lot of men in particular are very conservative about working with women who are their equals or superiors, and find it hard to get past the traditional ideas they were brought up with.

      It's not just men either, a lot of women feel the same way. The younger ones are more progressive, as always.

      That's classic conservatism, resistance to change and a preference for the existing way of doing things.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:What "conservative values" are they battling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Conservative literally means "adverse to change". In areas where the prevailing historic values were sexist (e.g., China), sexism is a conservative value.

      In a lot of places mainstream "conservative values" are still deeply sexist: abortion should be illegal, women should bear the larger share of responsibility for childcare and homemaking, men should provide for their families and look after women, boys should do contact sports and metalworking whilst girls do non-contact sports and handicrafts, women wearing X style of clothing are partially responsible if they are the victims of sexual abuse, women should get custody of children in a divorce etc.

      Almost everywhere in the states and Europe, even the most conservative of conservatives have embraced the idea that women aren't property, are capable of rational thought, and should not be barred from voting, working or owning land, but the reluctance to fully embrace the change from a gender-diamorphic society to a gender-blind society is very real and BY DEFINITION conservativism.

      Of course not everyone (or indeed the vast majority of people) who self-identify as a "conservative" will cling to outdated notions of gender roles, but anyone who does is a conservative, because that's what the word means. If you are uncomfortable with being associated with those people - and I don't blame you - then you should probably stop reducing your worldview down to a single us v them, liberal v conservative, red v blue axis.

      Personally I'm not a fan of the victim mentality pushed by mainstream liberalism, nor the "traditional values" of mainstream conservative politics, and the unfounded belief in the equalising power of capitalism shared by many libertarians is just laughable, so I stick to using - and defending - the concepts and labels that I actually believe in.

  7. Re:Why the comparison? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

    None of these stories are about Finland, and all of them actually support my point!

    Texas story: Allegation made, no actual complaint or charges, at most it's a civil matter (slander) so why would there be criminal charges? Sounds like you want them to criminalize speech!

    Ex-boyfriend: She WAS charged and admitted it (i.e. convicted)! She admitted wasting police time. That's a criminal offence. In fact the last line of the article notes that she is awaiting sentencing for her crime. You are proving that the system works!

    3 black guys: She took a plea deal. As the article notes she plead guilty to "two third-degree felony counts of tampering with physical evidence, a third-degree felony count of tampering with a government record and a state-jail felony count of tampering with a government record". As well as a criminal record, she got 8 years probation, $10,000 in fines and 160 hours community service. https://www.dallasnews.com/new...

    Israel: Again, suspended sentence.

    What is your point here, that the punishment isn't harsh enough?

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC