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Facebook, Amazon, and Hundreds of Companies Post Targeted Job Ads That Screen Out Older Workers (vox.com)

Older workers are accusing Facebook, Ikea, and hundreds of other companies for discriminating against job seekers in their 50s and 60s through targeted job ads posted on Facebook. From a report: The Communications Workers of America, a labor union representing 700,000 media workers across the country, added the companies to a class-action lawsuit on Tuesday, which was filed in California federal court in December. In its original complaint, the labor union accused Amazon, T-Mobile, and Cox Media Group of doing the same thing. The case, Bradley v. T-Mobile, has major implications for US employers, who routinely buy job ads on Facebook to reach users. The plaintiffs argue that Amazon, T-Mobile, Ikea, Facebook, and hundreds of other companies target the ads so they are only seen by younger Facebook users.

The lawsuit revolves around Facebook's unique business model, which lets advertisers micro-target the network's users based on their interests, city, age, and other demographic information. In the past, equal rights advocates have sued Facebook for accepting ads that discriminate against consumers based on their religion, race, and gender. Facebook has argued that the company is not legally responsible when other companies buy ads that violate the law.

28 of 169 comments (clear)

  1. First question.. by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The first question that comes to my mind is, why would ANYONE be honest when entering their information into Facebook?

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:First question.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I signed up on Facebook to stay connected with my relatives and reconnect with old friends I hadn't seen in a while. A few of the old friends I looked up, I couldn't find--so I figured we'd connect later when they created accounts. I assumed their finding me would be eased by my posting my correct info.

      I read a lot of stuff on Slashdot about how bad it is that Facebook knows everything about us, but y'all haven't successfully articulated just what I should fear.
      What are the potential negative consequences if Facebook knows my real name and where and when I went to high school?

      The story we're commenting on is about the terrible possibility that I might not see certain ads on Facebook. That's a risk I'm willing to take.

    2. Re:First question.. by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      The second question is: Doesn't facebook know that and use the age group estimation derived from your browsing behavior rather than what you have entered?

      --
      bickerdyke
    3. Re:First question.. by H3lldr0p · · Score: 3, Informative

      What are the potential negative consequences if Facebook knows my real name and where and when I went to high school?

      Anymore? Not a whole lot at the individual level. There was a time when anyone could look at your profile and stalk you that way, but there has since been controls put in place to keep that from happening without a better understanding of the underlying mechanisms (aka, hacking) facebook uses to generate the pages it sends you.

      On the whole no one cares about you and your daily grind. The fear of wholesale turning over of logs to law enforcement for no reason seem to be unfounded as well as the delusion that you are interesting enough for, say, intelligence services to want to know more about you. I think it says more about the people who continue to fight against the service than those who use it to reconnect with friends and family members they wouldn't otherwise know anything about.

      However, that isn't to say that there's no danger. These lie more in being the target of individualized advertising and propaganda. These are more dangers of aggregation, how you can be grouped together with other people, which is what TFA is talking about.

    4. Re:First question.. by lucasnate1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I live in a country (Israel) where people were fired because their workplaces monitored their facebook walls and found out they spoke against the army. I was also told, when I wanted to apply for a job, that I will have to make sure my facebook account is clean, and that lying that I don't have facebook would seem suspicious. I have heard that in the US, there are workplaces that wlll not hire you if you don't have an active facebook.

      Does this answer your question? (And yes, I do agree that there are ways around this).

    5. Re:First question.. by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      The scary part is that even if you hadn't created an account, they probably have all of that information anyways if enough people you know use Facebook and have tagged you in photographs on their service.

      The creepy part is that a lot of information can be derived about you based on the people you have friended. If it's only old acquaintances or classmates, they don't get much, but for regular users they can easily and accurately predict political affiliation and sexual orientation even if you don't fill in either of those categories yourself and don't consume news stories that would give that information away. That information could be sold to third parties or used for other nefarious purposes.

      Most of this isn't world ending or life threatening, but it's invasive. And that's just what we know that they're capable of doing. The reality is probably far worse.

    6. Re:First question.. by H3lldr0p · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I hate to break it to you but if you got married anywhere in the US, that's considered a public record and can be looked up. Not finding a record isn't conclusive proof but it's a good indicator that you're not.

      In conclusion, your marital status is already public. It cannot be used against you as part of a job application, however. Those are two different things.

    7. Re:First question.. by arth1 · · Score: 2

      On the whole no one cares about you and your daily grind.

      Except, of course, those that do.
      - People you might have attracted or pissed off in the past and who either work for Facebook (or affiliated companies, it seems), or can get access through someone who does.
      - Collection agencies and bounty hunters in their extended searches for someone else, or because you happen to have a similar name or address.
      - Three letter agencies needing to justify their existence.
      - Bored employees.

    8. Re:First question.. by Headw1nd · · Score: 2

      Ah, the old "It's not my job to educate you, SHITLORD!" which I suppose is not only restricted to tumblr anymore.

      On another note, it's exactly this kind of self-referential hysteria that has made me stop giving a shit about facebook and the data they collect. If your cause has merit, it will have evidence, which is why even today you can find people who will dutifully try to argue with someone denying global warming, using years of studies and data. Apparently in this case merely asking about the extent of the problem is a bridge too far, which leads me to suspect that at the core there is nothing.

    9. Re:First question.. by SantiagoMcRib · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have heard that in the US, there are workplaces that wlll not hire you if you don't have an active facebook.

      No employer in America would decide against hiring you because you don't have an active facebook account.

      However, you might not be the "right fit" for the company.

  2. Re:places are not honest about how meny hours per by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    paid to sit on ass

    like their own or someone elses
    pls this is important in planning the next phase of my career

  3. For every abuser by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    There is an enabler.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  4. Your resume should look young... by The+Fat+Bastard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After I went back to school to get another degree ten years ago, I dropped my first degree from my resume. Most recruiters look for three years in each of the last three positions, so I list my experience from the last ten years. Since I get hired over the phone, most hiring managers are shocked to see that my beard is snow white. Never mind that the color of my beard is irrelevant to the job.

    1. Re:Your resume should look young... by Kielistic · · Score: 2

      "Their cargo cult is different from my cargo cult and are sick of cleaning up other people's messes"

    2. Re:Your resume should look young... by ranton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I expect that this comment is going to end up at "-1 Troll" like many of the other times I've talked about my experienced with older workers, because apparently when you're still (barely) in your 20s you can't talk about these kinds things.

      You can certainly talk about these kinds of things, but you also need to accept that it will be hard to be taken seriously. It is like a man talking about how painful child birth is. Or a parent with one child who thinks their parenting experience would fully prepare them for their second child. (you're probably too young to understand how wrong that one is)

      If you are barely in your 20's, you are probably just out of college. Or started your career without college. Heaven forbid you are still in college (you are simply a moron if you think you have insight into this if you haven't been in the industry yet). Your insight seems like it comes from someone who has only been working for a few years, and has only worked closely with perhaps a dozen or so colleagues. In truth your comments seem driven by blog posts you have read and not real experience.

      I am in my late 30's, and of course I have dealt with older coworkers who have no business still being in the industry. But I have also dealt with far more younger coworkers who have literally no idea what they are doing. The most common issue with younger developers that I see (including myself with only 15 years of experience) is they just don't know what they don't know. They cannot identify the difference between maintainable code and unmaintainable code. They can certainly identify the unmaintainable code, but mistakenly think their code is better just because it makes more sense to them. Or because it hasn't yet went through 10 years of updates and modifications. Just wait. Everyone thinks their shiny new system is incredibly extensible.

      That is of course not fair to all young workers. One simple way to identify a truly competent young worker is that they are fully aware how inexperienced they are, and rarely assume they know very much. A 25 year old who brags about their easily maintainable and extensible code will get more pity from me than admiration, because he is almost certainly wrong (the ones who are good enough also rarely brag about it). I am fairly new to management, and I believe the primary thing which helped in the transition is I didn't assume I would be naturally good at it just because I have watched other people do it or read a bunch of books.

      You may not be a troll, but you certainly have a lot to learn.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re:Your resume should look young... by shanen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually I was looking for the obligatory "I am shocked—shocked—to find that gambling is going on in here!" post. Of course in this case mapped to the discrimination against old people getting hired for technical work. White-bearded experience counts for much less in computer-related fields.

      Your comment was interesting, but I think the most interesting aspect is that you're still scrabbling around looking for work. Not fully clear from your comment, but that's how it comes across. I hope it's because you like variety, but I think most businesses these days want the smallest number of long-term employees possible.

      There's a deep mismatch here. We have long-term lives. If we starve to death between jobs, then that greatly reduces our future job prospects.

      Or another way to look at it is that companies want to have continuous revenue streams coming in, but they want to minimize the money that is flowing out, especially as salaries for the lower-level employees. The soulless and inhuman corporations are programmed to focus on profit maximization without worrying too much about the externalized human sources of that revenue.

      Me? I did a lot of scrabbling around in my younger days, but I never got to like it. I still enjoy working, but I'm not interested in the scrabbling now. However, I think it's your advocacy of partial truth that is bothering me the most. In my ontology of lies, I rank that as Level 2, which is mostly packed with lawyers and politicians and certain kinds of salespeople.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    4. Re:Your resume should look young... by shanen · · Score: 2

      If I ever got a mod point to give...

      Oh, wait. Not really informative or interesting. Definitely not funny. Could I justify it as insightful? I don't think so. Seems like another case of "I am shocked—shocked—to find that gambling is going on in here!"

      In this case, the specific form of gambling is the attempt to be the biggest corporate cancer in the niche. ADSAuPR, atAJG.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  5. It's time for better older worker protection... by TigerPlish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Older workers need better job protection -- Too easy / tempting to let them go, chances of getting hired at a similar pay rate as the lost job are slim, and contrary to what people think, the days of fat retirements are long gone. Older workers are at great risk. Greater than other classes, I would say.

    But of course, the public at large don't see it like that, the politicians can't be bothered to care, and companies only care about moneymoneymoney.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
    1. Re:It's time for better older worker protection... by TigerPlish · · Score: 2

      I think all workers need better job protection. There is no reason to be ageist in your advocacy and pretend that letting go of a young person is any less disruptive to their life than old person.

      So you're saying that it is not true that older workers take longer to get re-hired.. if at all? At or near the same level they were before?

      I hope you never find yourself in that situation. I think you'll find it.. educational.

      My intent isn't to be ageist, it is to illustrate that yes, different age brackets have different needs. Is any of this untrue?

      --
      The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
    2. Re:It's time for better older worker protection... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      We don't need 'protectionism', we need companies to honor experience and expertise and pay for it, rather than pay some young idiots just out of school who don't know a goddamned thing about how the real world works, because they're naive and will accept low pay just to have a job.

    3. Re:It's time for better older worker protection... by lgw · · Score: 2

      There is no reason to be ageist in your advocacy and pretend that letting go of a young person is any less disruptive to their life than old person.

      Once you're married, it's more disruptive. Once you have kids, it's more disruptive. Once you have a mortgage, it's more disruptive.

      So, maybe not age per se, but one does tend to accumulate reasons that losing's one's job is more disruptive.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  6. Dupe by OneAhead · · Score: 2

    Here, and I thought I saw it passing by much more recently on /. as well.

    That makes 2 stale stories in a row. *Pours bucket of water on msmash.* Wake up man, you're in the driver's seat!

  7. Target Ads by tempmpi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have nothing against targeted ads, but advertiser should be forced to reveal their target to the receiver of the ad. I think this would stop most of the abuse and would easy way to regulate this.

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    Jan
  8. We should ask why it's so easy and tempting by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    businesses are just that, businesses. People tend to be pretty rational when it comes to making money; albeit not always very nice about it. For example, you see some reverse age discrimination at Walmart where they prefer older workers because though they're slower they always show up for shifts.

    What I'm saying is this: by and large older workers are less productive. They take time off for their kids, their health, etc. They're not willing to work 60/hr a week with 20 of that unpaid in exchange for vague promises of promotion. There are a ton of other reasons too. So unless you've got a special case like Walmart where workers are so unreliable that it's worth taking the productivity hit for consistency or need highly specialized skills then older workers just don't make economic sense

    This is an economic reality we all should face. The sooner we do the sooner we can talk about what to do with all these under employed (or unemployed) workers. If you're a young'un reading this now you're either going to join the older set or die. Literally. It takes years to set up a structure to protect people since there's going to be a ton of resistance. Now's the time to start supporting change.

    As for that change, we need more retirement support and better wages. Maybe Social Security at an early age. Forcing employers to hire less productive old people is just going to be bad all around. The young guys will be mad when gramps can't keep up and the oldsters will work themselves into an early grave.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:We should ask why it's so easy and tempting by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

      What I'm saying is this: by and large older workers are less productive.

      For a job like a Walmart associate where you learn the whole job in a few weeks? Sure. For an engineering position, where you accumulate years of wisdom about how not to do things? Not so much.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  9. Re: places are not honest about how meny hours per by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    "You might be onto something;"

    That's what she said.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  10. Re:There are tech job ads on Facebook? by quintus_horatius · · Score: 2

    Anti-Christian discrimination is every bit as bad in tech as is age discrimination.

    I don't think being a Christian is the reason your original post was marked as flamebait. No, not that at all.

    It's not about discrimination, it's about keeping the discussion on-point. Your religion is irrelevant, despite your protests elsewhere on this thread.

    We are talking about:

    • People working in an IT-related field? check
    • People who are over 50? check
    • People who use Facebook or other social media where directed advertising occurs? check
    • People who get fewer job ads than the rest of us? check

    Per your own statements, you hit all of those points. There's nothing on that list regarding religion. You have plenty of other viable and valuable points of relevance to bring to the discussion. You should have checked your religion at the door where you came in because it's not on the agenda today.

  11. Re:Why? by arth1 · · Score: 2

    And what older person seeking employment doesn't have at least some semblance of a network through which they could reasonably find something else?

    The older you are, the smaller your network becomes, as people move away or die. Establishing new nodes becomes increasingly hard compared to when young, and they become less and less relevant (your acquaintances that are cordwainers, VCR repairmen and darkroom experts probably aren't going to be too useful from a job perspective).