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Prosecution of UK News Photographer Collapses After Recording Disproves Police Testimony (wordpress.com)

Slashdot reader Andy Smith writes: Slashdot reported last September how I was arrested while standing in a field near a road accident, as I photographed the scene for a newspaper. I was initially given a police warning for "obstruction", but the warning was then cancelled and I was prosecuted for resisting arrest and breach of the peace. These are serious charges and I was facing a prison sentence. Fortunately we had one very strong piece of evidence: A recording of my arrest. Not only did the recording prove that two police officers' testimony was false, but it caught one of them boasting about how he had conspired with a prosecutor to arrest and prosecute me. Yesterday the case was dropped, and now the two police officers and the prosecutor face a criminal investigation.

41 of 207 comments (clear)

  1. Lucky for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you were in the US instead of the UK, you may well be dead right now.

    "STOP RESISTING!"

  2. Do not talk to the police. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That badge does not make them good people, but it does give them significant power over you.

    1. Re:Do not talk to the police. by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The badge often makes them worse people. Look at the Stanford Prison Experiment... power and order-following corrupt.

    2. Re:Do not talk to the police. by Bobrick · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Stanford Experiment has been debunked as a fraud recently, but yes, fuck the police and always record any interaction you have with the pigs.

    3. Re:Do not talk to the police. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 5, Informative

      It appears that it has indeed been invalidated.
      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201310/why-zimbardo-s-prison-experiment-isn-t-in-my-textbook

      Summary: the players knew the expected results and acted to achieve them.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    4. Re:Do not talk to the police. by Bobrick · · Score: 2

      It was never published in a journal.

    5. Re:Do not talk to the police. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Papers published in the Journal of Internet Manufactured Outrage are not falsifiable, cannot be retracted, and echo back and forth through blogs until the end of time. The Stanford experiment and the Wakefield anti-vax paper are examples.

    6. Re: Do not talk to the police. by edittard · · Score: 2

      If something in psychology hasn't already been known since ancient times, it's almost certainly false.

      Like the Dunning-Krueger effect? I wonder why that sprang to mind!

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    7. Re:Do not talk to the police. by houghi · · Score: 2

      I got a "Yes" when I asked "Is the earth flat?"on http://www.8-ball-magic.com/in... (After "Concentrate and ask again.")

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  3. Excessively Punitive by mentil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Resisting Arrest should be a fine, and Breaching the Peace is a catch-all law that should be used for e.g. putting a drunk in a cell overnight. Neither should have prison sentences attached.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Excessively Punitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      None of those points address the fundamental issue: the testimony of police is believed without corroborating evidence. If that guy didn't have video evidence to prove his innocence, he would be in prison right now, on nothing but the testimony of two corrupt cops.

    2. Re:Excessively Punitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A police officer caught giving false testimony should be put in prison for the remainder of his life.

    3. Re:Excessively Punitive by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Police or those in related positions (working at a PD) are often excluded from juries for various reasons. Some of it is because they may be too intimately knowledgeable about police procedures, but mostly it's because they will be biased. However it's not necessarily because they will be biased to believe police testimony, but because they're often the most dubious of that testimony.

      I was on a jury once, and we had one guy that absolutely assumed the guy was guilty precisely because he was arrested. 11 other jurors kept trying to explain to him that the evidence didn't hold up, but he didn't want to believe it. The next day he went to the judge and somehow got himself excused, so an alternate juror was called. Scary that people of that sort are out there and get onto juries.

    4. Re:Excessively Punitive by mentil · · Score: 2

      Bad things don't happen to good people, bad thing happened, QED guilty.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    5. Re:Excessively Punitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      8 years ago I fought a B.S. resisting arrest charge from some Long Island NY office who'll never make Sgt. for good reason. After the slightest of a tap of the vehicle in front of me in slow moving traffic, I had an extremely angry driver who called the cops. The 1st young officer was doing everything right getting our information, then a 2nd police car with lights and siren blasting screeches onto the scene like some scene from the Dukes of Hazzard tv show. He gets out, points at me yelling, "Stay in your car!!!"
      "This is different.", I said to myself. 2nd cop talks with the other driver & young-cop, comes to me as I'm leaning on my car and says to me, "You're under arrest for assault!" I tell him, "That's his word against mine, I never touched him!" He grabs my wrist and forces my arm down to the 6 O'clock position. I keep an eye lock on him and, just because I was mad at the obvious wrongness bring my arm back up to the 12 O'clock position. He pulls a practiced maneuver on me by twisting my arm and 'walks me forward' while I instinctively try to keep my knees from buckling. I fall onto my stomach, he comes down with his knee full force onto my lower back while yelling, "STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!" I yell back, "I'm not resisting and you know it! STOP OVER-ACTING!!!" "But, I can't get the cuffs on!" "JUST DO IT!" I tell him. Got released in the morning on an ROR by the judge. Told my public attorney, "There's no plea deal on this one. Either the D.A. drops all charges or I want my trial." 11 months of going to court every month until the trials, first was the resisting arrest charge. My lawyer had read a synopsis of my account of what happened and after the cop testified that I was holding onto a fence while kicking at him, she got him to admit that he never actually witnessed any assault. Some conferences between lawyers and judge happen, and 2 weeks later charges were dropped. The 2nd trial from the driver happened and I explained my side of the story which included a few disposable camera pics of the scene which showed an unkempt, angry plaintiff, found not guilty, and I'm done with it all. The D.A. originally wanted me to plea out to a deal that included 3 years probation. A cop friend of mine told me how I should have, "Sue that asshole!" cop, I told him, "I don't sue cops." After a year my back stopped aching.

      That cop smoothly lied and committed perjury so easily, fortunately for me the judge was firm but fair. After I did a fist pump when the "Not Guilty" words came from his mouth, we joked a bit about how my Public Defender and I had a running joke between us after she got the resisting arrest charge dealt with. I told the judge, "Ms. N***r here, she's my Matlock!" I'm blond haired/blue eyed, the whitest white looking guy in a white power structer life in NY, and I know that if I was darker skinned I might've had to take the D.A.'s deal. But damn, if the cop lied so easily on the stand he'd done that for a long time with other arrests. I feel so bad for all darker skinned than I people who get railroaded by immoral police. I've worked on 'good cops' homes here on this island, but if this ever happens to me again you can be damned sure I'll sue for all I can get, won't get fooled again. (Rant over now, I'm glad that I got this experience out of me here, thanks all for reading through my story.)

    6. Re: Excessively Punitive by Reverend+Green · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Law enforcers lie all day every day. It's their culture, and the kangaroo courts encourage it.

      OF COURSE I would believe a random Joe before I believe a law enforcer. Who wouldn't?

    7. Re: Excessively Punitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ongoing Tommy Robinson episode is even more terrifying. There's a gag order which prevents journalists from even discussing his arrest. Crazy.

    8. Re: Excessively Punitive by Reverend+Green · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Random internet yahoos are random. One doesn't know what to expect. Whereas with law enforcers, one expects duplicity.

    9. Re:Excessively Punitive by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      I read TFA and it's actually bullshit as far as I can see. The guy's prosecution was dropped at the last moment, but he doesn't know why. He speculates that it's because of the recording, but he doesn't know.

      The claim that the police are facing investigation is speculative too. There is no evidence of that. He says he plans to sue them to recover costs.

      Unfortunately the police usually do get away with this kind of thing in the UK. They are pretty much untouchable. Even when there is video of then murdering people they avoid conviction.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Excessively Punitive by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      You're lucky. In a slightly more serious situation, mr. Good Cop might have well backed up the story of mr. Bad Cop, as they (and those in some other professions in similar situations) often do when faced with serious accusations from an outsider. Then you're facing 2 corroborating testimonies from cops in court, before a judge who has doubtlessly seen the other side of this: someone "obviously screaming in pain" because of "extreme police brutality" while being arrested, when later video and medical evidence show that nothing but play-acting was going on during the arrest.

      What I kind of would expect in this kind of situation, when it is pretty clear that the cop gave false testimony in court, is a followup investigation into his integrity. That should be a standard evaluation in such cases, part of the job, and not subject to you filing charges against him. This is an extremely serious matter precisely because of the weight usually given to cops' testimonies.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    11. Re: Excessively Punitive by Zocalo · · Score: 2

      Stop spreading FUD. Tommy Robinson talked to journalists outside court about an on-going case. the judge on the case cautioned him to desist, and he did it again anyway, repeatedly. When a judge tells you not to do something relating to a case and you ignore them on multiple instances that's a textbook case of Contempt of Court and you can - and should - expect the judge to respond. Tommy Robinson apparently even admitted he was in the wrong on this during his trial for contempt.

      The use of gag orders is, admittedly, a bit more contentious (especially in the tabloid media where salacious trials are almost always headline news), but they are used very sparingly and almost always in cases where there is a valid justifcation for doing so. Yes, jurors are told to avoid media coverage of the trial, but when you've got a high-profile case with people like Tommy Robinson involved that's kind of hard to do, so the idea is that by curtailing media coverage you can ensure that the accused gets as fair a trial as possible, and reduces the chances of a mistrial because of "trial-by-media". Other than where there may be a national security angle or other mitigating circumstances these are lifted at the conclusion of the trial, which is what happened in the Tommy Robinson case - the circumstances of his arrest, details of the trial, and his sentence were all covered extensively in the media the following morning.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    12. Re:Excessively Punitive by twosat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There was a case in New Zealand a few years ago where the evidence of two policeman was contradicted by the video recorded by the camera on a taser gun.

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-new...

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/...

    13. Re: Excessively Punitive by jeremyp · · Score: 2

      You are behind the curve. The gag order on his arrest and conviction has been lifted. Even the BBC are now reporting it.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-en...

      And the gag order was there by the way, because of the reporting restrictions on the original trial that Robinson was violating.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    14. Re:Excessively Punitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was once a juror on a kiddie porn website case back in 2005, and the police just lied and made things up that were IT related. For example they said there was no evidence on his laptop as the sized laptop was only 5 days old, therefore his must of got rid of his porn ridden laptop and brought a new one which showed he was trying to cover his tracks.
      They then said because the new laptop had a way to "delete" cookies this showed his was trying to cover his tracks.
      The guy got 5 years.. The Police IT evidence was bullshit, but the paper evidence that 2 of his credit cards has multiple monthly subscriptions to kiddie porn websites is what we the jury found him guilty of.

    15. Re: Excessively Punitive by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When cops lie under oath, you must acquit. Even for murder and child porn, sadly. There can be no justice without truth.

    16. Re: Excessively Punitive by Xest · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you're tarring all police with the same brush, but not all police are like that.

      I was surprised for example that a friend in Canada who is a police officer said she'd have no problem giving a friend or fellow officer a pass on a speeding fine, because that shit doesn't fly in the UK.

      I was at a friends wedding and one of the guests was a police officer, I jokingly said to him my wife had got a ticket in the area he patrols and he immediately said he too had been caught by the same mobile operated camera. I asked if they ever give other officers a pass to which his response was "Do they fuck, the guys who man the cameras would happily do their own mothers for speeding".

      So whilst we might accuse them of being cunts, for doing their job to the letter in fining someone for speeding who was only 5mph over the limit on a sunny day, with empty roads in good conditions which is for example less dangerous than being at the limit in poor conditions, one thing seems clear that they're at least not corrupt and treat everyone equally - something I'm well aware isn't true in Canada, and I get the impression, in the US either.

      But I've also spoken to another officer in the past who ran an EFR training session I was in, and one of the things he spoke about from his own personal experience was exactly the situation of traffic accidents - he said that when you're faced with someone in a serious condition needing CPR you don't really notice what's going on around you until you stop, and realise nowadays that some twat is filming this person dying as you try and save them on their mobile phone.

      So when you have a road traffic accident so serious that a number of officers are in attendance and have closed the road then it's quite possible that they've done so because someone has either suffered catastrophic injuries (such as loss of limbs, beheadings, or many other rather gross outcomes) or because someone is still alive, but dying because they're unlikely to be saved. In this case the police officer isn't saying "Please step back" because of some great coverup that they're hiding from you, but because they a) Don't want you to see it because it's quite possible it will genuinely give you PTSD which is enough to keep you awake at night, leave you distracted, and subsequently fuck up your life by causing you to lose your job as a result if you don't get councelling and sort your head out, and b) Because someone who is dying doesn't want some member of the paparazzi taking photos of them to sell to anyone wishing to buy them in their dying moments - it's about basic fucking human decency.

      Now sure, the police have a limited toolset when it comes to dealing with things like that, but they do have powers to shut roads, and prevent access in the case of such things, so it's not overly surprising that when they've told someone to back off and that person ignores them and instead tries to go through a field instead saying "I'm in the field it doesn't count!" like a petulent fucking child all so they can get their traffic accident gore photos for money that the police don't take too kindly to it - it's a hard enough job clearing up such an aftermath at the best of times, much less when someone is trying to profit off the horror of it.

      Remember the policing in the UK uses the system of policing by consent, officers aren't routinely armed precisely because the aim is for them to not have excessive power over the general public which people inherently do when they wield a firearm over someone. This is drilled into them from day 1 of their training, because it's a core tenet of UK policing.

      Now that doesn't make it perfect, you still get plenty of bad apples - just like in every job, there are both people who are bad at their job, and people who are outright cunts in their job. But it's not a majority, most officers are just dealing with shit that most people just don't see and aren't interested in day to day, from clearing up gory traffic accidents, to saving overdosed junkies, to counselling

    17. Re:Excessively Punitive by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

      " we had one guy that absolutely assumed the guy was guilty precisely because he was arrested"

      Last time I was on Jury duty 8 of the jurors were like that and 2 more just wanted to go home.

    18. Re:Excessively Punitive by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      How do you know that they were kiddie porn websites? Oh right, people from the same organization as those that told you that having a way to delete cookies was evidence of trying to cover his tracks. In other words, you believed people who lied, or were badly mistaken about, something you had knowledge of on a subject you did not have knowledge of. In a case like you described I believe that there is reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    19. Re: Excessively Punitive by dcw3 · · Score: 2

      OF COURSE I would believe a random Joe before I believe a law enforcer. Who wouldn't?

      The majority of the public.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  4. Doing something wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This just shows the lengths that the police will go to intimidate photographers and others to try to make them afraid to photograph or record the police! If the police are doing nothing wrong, why would they care if they are recorded or photographed?

  5. HTF by Frank+Burly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How does this guy keep getting /. articles based on his uncorroborated, self-published, vaguely overwrought blog posts?

    Dude, can you post the video that saved your hide?

    The charging documents?

    Can you have someone from the union release a statement on what they accomplished?

    It sounds like you pissed off an asshole cop, and the prosecutor looked at the evidence and decided to drop the case. It's too bad you had to go through that, but is there a tech angle that I am missing?

  6. Re:1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual. by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Does anyone here know if English law works that way?

    This is one of those times it is important to distinguish between Britain, England and, in this case Scotland.

    This happened in Scotland and Scotland has a different legal system. You need to ask if Scottish law works that way.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  7. Re:1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual. by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

    Plea deals are almost unheard of in the UK - there are rare cases where they are handled, but usually it's an odd case to begin with.

    Anyone convicted using witness statements from these officers can apply to have their conviction overturned at a Court of Appeal, and the appeals court will examine their case and either dismiss the appeal, or overturn the conviction - if overturned, it goes back to the Crown Prosecution Service, who can bring another prosecution or not.

  8. Re:1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not everyone lies under oath.

    It does immediately cast doubt on all other convictions in which these officials were involved, and in those cases the convictions should be re-examined and (if appropriate) further action taken.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  9. Whenever you have the opportunity, record! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Always record incidents, public or private authority notwithstanding. The Dao dragging incident would have been quietly covered up had it not been for all those nearby passengers snapping away with phonecams.

    If you encounter a ban on recording incidents, record more. Today's tech makes it easier to record surreptitiously than ever before. If there is a threat of officially forced deletion, get your footage onto social media as quickly as possible. Some camera apps have an option to automatically mirror to your Dropbox account.

  10. Re:Great Britain. Ftfy by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

    When correcting someone, it's suggested to make absolutely sure you're right. Otherwise you look like not only an asshole, but also a fool.

    I agree. You do look like a foolish asshole:
    "Since the Union with England Act 1707, Scotland has shared a legislature with England and Wales. Scotland retained a fundamentally different legal system from that south of the border, "
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    not from England, which no longer existed as a country by 1707

    "England is a country that is part of the United Kingdom."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  11. Re:The Left thinks Only Police Should have Weapons by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And it's a good thing only the police had weapons in this situation. The photographer went through the legal process and won. If he had started a gun battle, he would have been shot dead and never vindicated.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  12. Re:I've never heard of UK police being prosecuted by taylormc · · Score: 2

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/... No information here about sentences handed out, but I've never read of any derisory sentences being handed out. We generally hold our police officers to account.

  13. Re:1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual. by russotto · · Score: 2

    Not everyone lies under oath.

    All police officers do. They know the elements of the crime they're accusing you of, so to get a conviction they'll tell a standard story that hits each of those elements (whether true or not), embellishing with details from their notes for verisimilitude.

  14. on moral certitude by epine · · Score: 2

    Psychology Today is the best you can do? Whose side are you on, anyway?

    The Lifespan of a Lie — 7 June 2018

    About the author:

    * Ben Blum was born and raised in Denver, Colorado.
    * He holds a PhD in computer science from the University of California Berkeley.
    * He was a National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellow.
    * He received an MFA in fiction from New York University, where he was awarded the New York Times Foundation Fellowship.

    The author did mundo research, which including, near the end, an interview with Zimbardo himself, which included the following Frost–Nixon interaction:

    "If [prisoners] said, 'I want to get out,' and you said, 'Okay,' then as soon as they left, the experiment would be over," Zimbardo explained. "All the prisoners would say, 'I want to get out.' There has to be a good reason now for them to get out. ... That's the whole point of the Pirandellian prison [Ed. note: Pirandello was an Italian playwright whose plays blended fiction and reality]. ... "

    Zimbardo confirmed that David Jaffe had devised the rules with the guards, but tried to argue that he hadn't been lying when he told Congress [and others] that the guards had devised the rules themselves, on the grounds that Zimbardo himself had not been present at the time.

    He at first denied that the experiment had had any political motive, but after I read him an excerpt from a press release disseminated on the experiment's second day explicitly stating that it aimed to bring awareness to the need for reform, he admitted that he had probably written it himself under pressure from Carlo Prescott, with whom he had co-taught a summer school class on the psychology of imprisonment.

    The entire article is awesome. Read it now.

    In summary, the entire experiment was conducted on the basis of publish or perish, and Zimbardo left few stones unturned—acting mainly through compliant Lieutenant Jaffe—to ensure that the end result was "publish".

    Here's another link I dropped into a Slashdot thread a few days ago, of an academic whose pursuit of his local career incentive crossed more than a few lines:

    Why the Joy of Cooking is going after a Cornell researcher — 28 February 2018

    Plus, Orwellian popcorn swells enrollment and sells textbooks:

    For psychology professors, the Stanford prison experiment is a reliable crowd-pleaser, typically presented with lots of vividly disturbing video footage. In introductory psychology lecture halls, often filled with students from other majors, the counterintuitive assertion that students' own belief in their inherent goodness is flatly wrong offers dramatic proof of psychology's ability to teach them new and surprising things about themselves.

    On the other hand, there's a responsible, modern literature, such as Robert Sapolsky's Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst (2017).

    There are specific passages in there about the neurobiology of bad cops (under stress, unreliable neural pathways become faster and stronger than reliable neural pathways, operating entirely beneath the level of executive self-control).

    Another recent book, Matthew P. Walker's Why We Sleep (2017) explains why—in modern society—operating at far less than our best has become de rigueur.

    At the center of this book, with more laboratory studies than you can shake a stick at (many of these conducted until the cold, impartial eye of clinical fMRI scans),

    [*] fMRI scans are cold and impartial when applied to slow, global brain phenomena such as sleep; for the fast and small, this, too, can be Wansinked.

    I colourful

  15. Re:Keep reading a few lines down by shilly · · Score: 2

    Not only is Scots law distinct from the law in England & Wales, it is famously distinct to the point that juries in trials can return a third verdict.

    Why don't you go find out what it is, and then come back and apologise to everyone for thinking you knew better, when you really really didn't.