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How Should Open Source Development Be Subsidized? (techcrunch.com)

"Open source maintainers are exhausted and rarely paid," writes TechCrunch's editorial manager. "A new generation wants to change the economics."

An anonymous reader quotes their report: [Patreon] is increasingly being used by notable open source contributors as a way to connect with fans and sustain their work... For those who hit it big, the revenues can be outsized. Evan You, who created the popular JavaScript frontend library Vue.js, has reached $15,206 in monthly earnings ($182,472 a year) from 231 patrons... While Patreon is one direct approach for generating revenues from users, another one is to offer dual licenses, one free and one commercial... Companies care about proper licensing, and that becomes the leverage to gain revenue while still maintaining the openness and spirit of open source software...

Tidelift is designed to offer assurances "around areas like security, licensing, and maintenance of software," CEO Donald Fischer explained... In addition, Tidelift handles the mundane tasks of setting up open source for commercialization such as handling licensing issues... Open Collective wants to open source the monetization of open source itself. Open Collective is a non-profit platform that provides tools to "collectives" to receive money while also offering mechanisms to allow the members of those collectives to spend their money in a democratic and transparent way.

TechCrunch warns that "It's not just that people are free riding, it's often that they don't even realize it. Software engineers can easily forget just how much craftsmanship has gone into the open source code that powers the most basic of applications...

"If you work at a for-profit company, take the lead in finding a way to support the code that allows you to do your job so efficiently. The decentralization and volunteer spirit of the open source community needs exactly the same kind of decentralized spirit in every financial contributor. Sustainability is each of our jobs, every day."

138 comments

  1. Free is free. by AHuxley · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You doing that after work. On weekends. For the community.
    Work in your free time so the programs you support do one thing and do it well.
    Dont have a lot of free time? Consider the work and support needed for the next systemd.... before starting a project.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree to a large extent, after all it was the developer who chose to start working on their project and nobody forced them to.

      However, it's not quite that simple. I personally write software that I want to use myself, but I add features that users request or that I think users would want, even if I don't want them myself. This vastly increases the development effort, and software I could write quickly to meet my own needs ends up being hugely time consuming. It can become rather stressful, and it would be nice if you could earn a small income from your project so you could reduce the number of hours you did at work and dedicate more time to your free software.

      Cross platform software can also be fairly costly because of the extra cost of hardware (bloody Apple!), and you have other expenses like website hosting. You do get some very nice comments from users who are grateful for your work, but you also get some brainless users who can't work out how to use your software and so write an abusive review without saying specifically what's wrong. Apparently they think abuse is the best way to motivate you...

      FOSS is a harsh environment, and it would be nice if you could get some reward. However, we've created this situation ourselves because we believe software should be free and we don't want to be restricted in how we use software. Ultimately then, we just have to deal with it. Besides, FOSS developers do benefit in that we get to use other developers' software for free. Instead of paying $200 per machine for a Windows 10 Pro licence and being bombarded with advertisements, spied on and generally abused, we can use Linux for free.

    2. Re:Free is free. by lkcl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You doing that after work. On weekends. For the community.

      Work in your free time so the programs you support do one thing and do it well.

      *NO*. this is extremely dangerous advice, for certain classes / types of projects: those with extreme complexity. you're no doubt familiar with the adages and articles that have made the rounds here on slashdot: the ones about attention span (how it takes 20 minutes to recover from interruptions), about information retention (the "7 things in your head" myth), and so on.

      an article that *hasn't* made its way onto here in the 15+ years i've been on slashdot is the difference between, and purpose of, electrical and chemical neuron memory. electrical is the short-term "immediate" memory. it's what you lose if you get hit on the head. chemical memory is long-term retrieval and it's much more difficult to access ("it's on the tip of my tongue", "just sleep on it", "author syndrome" and so on).

      what happens is that things that you can't recall and those things you're not recalling regularly are swapped over during sleep. it's why you can remember things if you're working on them regularly, and why if you're struggling to remember something you can do so the next day (it's also why not getting decent sleep before exams is not a good idea).

      you should by now have the basics of why i'm posting this, but it's worth explicitly writing: certain kinds of complex tasks, which require *significant* information retrieval and cross-referencing, as well as creativity *and* engineering, are just far too much for any human being on the planet to achieve without ***FULL TIME*** focus.

      reverse-engineering is one such task. it literally took me six to eight weeks in some cases to find a single bit amongst hundreds of packet replays, that one bit being responsible for whether it was possible to proceed to the next packet or not. that was six to eight weeks FULL TIME at 12 to 14 hours a day.

      and that resulted in me going into serious, serious debt... which i'm still paying back, over 12 years later! why? well... was any fucking fucking fucker paying me to do that work? was anyone fucking well giving me money to do that work? no they fucking well weren't. and when that work was released under GPLv2+ licenses, what did people do? they went "oo thank you very much, i'll have that, it saves my business an absolute fortune"... completely failing to reward or compensate me for that work. some other free software projects actually even blatantly copied my work (used it as a template) and failed to give credit so it's not even *known* that i did that work.

      several people in high-profile projects - myself included - have not been properly compensated for our work, and gone into serious, serious debt as a result. the gentoo developer who ended up with USD $40,000 of credit-card debt and had to get a job with *microsoft* of all companies. the GPG developer who ended up with USD $10,000 of debt despite the fact the GPG is one of *the* most widely-used security programs around!

      the only reason why certain critical software projects (openssl for example) actually started to get funded a few years back was because of shellshock, heartbleed and other serious vulnerabilities. companies started to realise that they were making an absolute fortune but were spongeing off of peoples' expertise and not properly paying them to be able to do the work to fix even basic security vulnerabilities.

      so no. it is NOT the case that everything can be broken down into the unix maxim "do one thing and do it well". certain classes of engineering projects simply do not succeed until they have reached a particularly high level of internal complexity (DCOM is one extremely good example, i won't go into details like i have in the past).

      to imply that *all* free software projects can be broken down into small tasks that can be done "in people's spare time" is to completely misunderstand software engineering and to do free software

    3. Re:Free is free. by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

      Consider the work and support needed for the next systemd

      Oh GOD, there's not enough drugs in this world to envision and design another Yet-Another-SystemD. Please save us from this horror. Oh, the humanity!

      No, wait : that's not a bad idea after all. We could call it DSystem, also design and implement it half-assedly, and if we're really, REALLY lucky they'd cancel each other out, just like matter and anti-matter.

      I'm moving to *BSD -- no reason. Also, and just for fun, going to install and try Devuan. (Can you tell how much I enjoy systemd?) Really, it's great though, as long as it works and stays functioning. Just once when it fails though, you'll never look back -- because just like movie monsters, it might be gaining on you.

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    4. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't pay for it, then it's free software. Pretty clear how that works.

      So the question at hand stands, what should we be subsidizing? Think DARPA projects here and think pro progress. What kind of Al can we subsidize? What kind of security vector intelligence software can we subsidize to keep the Russians at bay? Think even further, what can we subsidize to help officials track down pedofiles and terrorists likely to destroy what is left of Our Great America?

      These are great questions to answer and will obviously filter down to the best recipient of the money so we as a society can move forward with better FOSS.

      -=x^X^x:::BeauHD:::x^X^x=-

      s e n i o r e d i t o r

      If we're talking about subsidizing software, why does it even have to be FOSS? If there's a more self sustaining way of producing software that helps people in a non-profit or even for profit manner, why not look to that instead? Are we even talking about helping people, or just FOSS because FOSS?

      When we start looking at non-contributors like free-riders, the faux altruism really starts to show.

    5. Re:Free is free. by lkcl · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh shut up, you live in Taiwan, you need like 50 dollars a year to live there.

      actually it's around USD $1200 a month ($400 for rent, and food for myself and my family is around $700, because things like butter cost around USD $3 for 250 grams, and a 1L bottle of milk is around USD $4). if i was in taipei city that would be around USD $3,000 or above, as rent there is about the same level as shenzhen, london and cambridge.

    6. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If we're talking about subsidizing software, why does it even have to be FOSS? If there's a more self sustaining way of producing software that helps people in a non-profit or even for profit manner, why not look to that instead?

      We need the FOSS software because we have seen the risk of having things that we can't look into. Software companies put in spy systems like Microsoft Telemetry or the Android spyware Chinese manufacturers add to their phones. Governments insist on ways to break the cryptography and we can never see them without the source code.

      Unfortunately, Microsoft, together collaborators like ESR, have convinced us that we don't need strong copyleft any more. It was copyleft which sustained Linux as a single cooperating project as the BSDs kept splitting every time someone found a commercial niche. FOSS developers who are doing it for altruistic reasons should always release under the strongest copyleft license they can and then only come down from that if they get enough money to more than compensate for the value of their software. It doesn't even matter if you keep the money (in which case others will see the idea and do more FOSS) or you give it to create more software. What matters is insisting that we always have an increasing pool of guaranteed available FOSS software.

      Freeloaders - as in users - are fine. Freeloaders - as in developers - will always be a problem because they will suck away value from your project, often without even getting benefit themselves, just transferring money to VC bloodsuckers.

    7. Re:Free is free. by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      You're in Asia and consuming dairy like you live in the West? What other expensive ways in which you're refusing to integrate are driving up your cost of living?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I find your attitude strange. To the best of my knowledge, no one is compelling you to work on open source software and there has never been a promise by anyone to pay you for your work on open source software.

      You're terribly naive if you believe corporations, many of which are filled with unethical people, will pay you for something that they can get for free. If you really want to get paid, you should have refused to do anything until it was agreed that you would be paid. Barring that, another way to get paid is to develop software and wait until it is widely-used. If there is a nasty bug, refuse to fix the software until people pay you to fix it. If someone else decides to work for free and fix it, then you're out of luck.

      Unless you are working on open source software for ideological reasons, you should stop if you complain this much when people do not compensate you for your voluntarily working for free. Corporations will then be forced to either buy a license to a commercial product (which may make the source code available) or develop their own product.

    9. Re:Free is free. by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding? Dairy isn't exactly a luxary - eating healthy isn't something you should expect people to give up to have the privilege of spending their lives writing free shit for you. Hell, if he takes his family out to eat 7 days a week at a nice restaurant it still wouldn't be out of line with the level of work he's doing. "Open source" isn't supposed to translate to "slave labor." People should be rewarded for pursuing their passions when those passions benefit others - God knows one guy in a perpetual flow state is far more productive than a hundred code monkeys paid to do the same thing.

    10. Re:Free is free. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      However, it's not quite that simple. I personally write software that I want to use myself, but I add features that users request or that I think users would want, even if I don't want them myself. This vastly increases the development effort, and software I could write quickly to meet my own needs ends up being hugely time consuming. It can become rather stressful

      Then don't do it.
      If it's important enough, someone else will pick up the ball, or design a new and better ball. If it isn't, it isn't; don't let your vanity get in the way.

    11. Re:Free is free. by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      What most of the world does is irrelevant, besides which he has kids which suggests it could be for them. If you do quality work you deserve a quality lifestyle, just because you find something you enjoy doing doesn't negate that.

    12. Re:Free is free. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      One new thing that can do many, many hidden things :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    13. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are really stupid. OpenSource does not necessarily mean "free", it just means the source is available to everyone. Furthermore, in the context of economics nothing is ever free. Do you even write open source software? If not, shut your hole.

      PS. Check the list of commercial OS software: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_open-source_applications_and_services

    14. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > that was six to eight weeks FULL TIME at 12 to 14 hours a day.
      > and that resulted in me going into serious, serious debt... which i'm still paying back, over 12 years later! why?

      Because you're an idiot?

      Okay, you are obviously not stupid if you can do that kind of work, but you have made some seriously poor life choices.

    15. Re:Free is free. by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      "What most of the world does is irrelevant, besides which he has kids which suggests it could be for them"

      Who it's for is irrelevant because it's not healthy for children, either. What most of the world does is relevant, not only because most of the world has children.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:Free is free. by sfcat · · Score: 2

      "Are you kidding? Dairy isn't exactly a luxary - eating healthy isn't something you should expect people to give up"

      What's healthy about eating dairy? It's a lousy way to get calcium or vitamin d, and literally only certain WASPs and their descendants have the gene for digesting dairy in adulthood. Don't get me wrong, I love butter, but I don't imagine that it's health food. Most of the world consumes very little dairy, all of it cultured.

      Well, cultures that don't consume much dairy are generally shorter, less healthy and die earlier. And its absolutely the most efficient way to get calcium but seeing as you need calcium for your brain to function well, you might not realize it. I'm sure you think taking vitamins is the best way to get calcium but most of that calcium will get passed right through you as we are not evolved to digest pills. And you can't digest milk because you stopped drinking it at some point (probably before or during college) and when you do that for long periods of time, your body stops producing the protein that breaks down milk sugars which makes you lactose intolerant. While my body might keep making more of that protein longer, it is still your own fault that you can no longer digest milk (which is a basic food stuff for all humans since long before recorded history). Plenty of WASPy folks are lactose intolerant for the exact same reasons as you.

      Also, fuck you for using open source software and then trying to deny the folks that built that software basic food stuffs. Seriously, fucking just kill yourself as if you can't even find it in your heart to think that those that are giving your free software libraries (that are often better than the ones your preferred vendor write) should have access to basic nutritional requirements. Maybe that milk isn't even for him and is for his niece. But then again, drinkypoo I've been here for years and remember some of your other posts. You've always been a piece of shit...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    17. Re:Free is free. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, cultures that don't consume much dairy are generally shorter, less healthy and die earlier.

      The longest-lived and healthiest people on the planet eat little dairy.

      And its absolutely the most efficient way to get calcium

      That is a total falsehood.

      I'm sure you think taking vitamins is the best way to get calcium

      That's because you're an assumption-making moron. I said literally nothing about supplements.

      And you can't digest milk because you stopped drinking it at some point (probably before or during college)

      I consume dairy all the time, so I can digest it just fine. However, I am not a moron, so I can acknowledge that it might not be a healthy behavior even though I am engaging in it. Sorry about your cognitive dissonance!

      Also, fuck you for using open source software and then trying to deny the folks that built that software basic food stuffs.

      Aww, you're cute. But that's not even vaguely close to what I'm doing. He was complaining about his high cost of living, and I was pointing out that it was unnecessary. If you want calcium, you should drink soup made with bone broth and green vegetables. It will be dramatically more effective than consuming dairy products, even those fortified with calcium (which is ineffective for the same reason as supplements.)

      Maybe that milk isn't even for him and is for his niece.

      Cow's milk isn't healthy for children, either.

      But then again, drinkypoo I've been here for years and remember some of your other posts.

      I've been here for more years, and I don't remember any of your posts. Guess you're irrelevant.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Free is free. by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      This conversation has diverged significantly from the substance of the post you had originally responded to. How someone spends their resources is irrelevant, the resources they get should be comparable to the job done.

    19. Re:Free is free. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How someone spends their resources is irrelevant, the resources they get should be comparable to the job done.

      The resources they get are comparable to the value of the job done. If they did it for themselves, then they got the software. If they did it for someone else, then they should have done it for money, or other compensation. No one is entitled to profit simply because they performed work. If the work they did was really valuable to someone, they would have paid for it. QED, they are getting fair value for their work, whatever they are getting.

      If you want people's needs to be met, I'm with you. If you think people deserve rewards for doing work, you've gone off the deep end.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:Free is free. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Depends what your goal is, this is a stupid advice.

      In most jurisdictions work contracts (can) demand that work that you do outside of ordinary work hours fall under "copyright" of your employer, more precisely: your employer has the right to demand that you hand them out and can distribute them how ever he sees fit. Of course he has to compensate you for that, and of course you don't lose your "moral rights" (and probably you can still distribute them under a FS/OS license in your own name).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    21. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      literally only certain WASPs and their descendants have the gene for digesting dairy in adulthood

      Why not just say white? White northern Europeans adapted to digest lactose in adulthood, long before there were Anglo-Saxons or Protestants.

    22. Re:Free is free. by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      What he's describing is something many people benefit from. Just because corporations are the standard way of receiving compensation for work done doesn't make them the only way, or even something remotely fair to the people doing the work. In fact, the only thing corporations really have going for them is their own stability in the modern economic environment, they are often slow to innovate (not as bad as educational institutes, but not that far ahead either,) resistant to change/adaptation, and most importantly not all developments which are good for people or even desired by people can be directly translated into a corporate pathway to profit/subsidence. The development of corporations tends to follow a pathway more akin to evolution than anything else, which necessarily has dead ends and lots of branches you can't even get to from a given starting point. I'm not suggesting that capitalism and corporations aren't the best thing we know of, because they are, but it's pretty foolish to not even acknowledge the issues they have because if we all do that then it just means nothing better will ever come about.

    23. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If knowledge was distributed equally among all people, then yes, someone would just pick-up the work. However, if the project is doing something uncommon, it is less likely to get picked-up. If the project has more potential for commercial re-use, it is less likely to get picked-up as an open-source project in the future. Financial incentives and disparity of knowledge prevent the growth of open-source in a natural way.

    24. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well as the Joker once said "If you're good at something, never do it for free." If he isn't at least leveraging his open source work into a lucrative high-paying position, then that's his fault.

    25. Re: Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love how Russians, pedos, and terrorists are what you think are the worst things for american society/people. The standard "urr man gurrd terrorism" and "think of the children" lines have blinded you from actual threats.

    26. Re:Free is free. by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      In most jurisdictions...

      Citation needed.

    27. Re:Free is free. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      There is no citation needed.
      I live in such a jurisdiction, and most likely you do, too ... just check your work contract.
      I once had such a contract.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    28. Re:Free is free. by Humbubba · · Score: 1

      If I'd a point to give, you'd have it. This is well thought out, opinionated and insightful. Might not see eye to eye, but that's all the better. Well done.

    29. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WASP?

      Racist much?

    30. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Financial incentives and disparity of knowledge prevent the growth of open-source in a natural way.

      what exactly is this way of natural growth of open source then?

    31. Re: Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are not paid based on their skills. They get paid based in their luck and there is actually a study about this. E.g. our project needed junior level Java developer but by customer demand you needed several years of experience from Java to get the job. No matter how talented you were if by bad luck you had not used Java in work projects for years you would not get the job.

      And if you do get a job you get paid by an excel sheet that tells average or median salary. They don't measure your skills like IQ and pay based on that. Even if you do exceptional work there is no guarantee you get a raise.

    32. Re:Free is free. by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you know what you think you know about dairy consumption.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    33. Re:Free is free. by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      My contract is pro forma because in the jurisdiction where I live the majority of terms of employment are negotiated by trade unions and chambers of commerce and then passed into law by the government. But anywhere in the EU that kind of claim should be laughable because a personal project is clearly not work for hire: your employer hasn't asked you to do it, hasn't assigned you time or resources to do it, hasn't contributed to the spec, ...

    34. Re:Free is free. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Union and center of commerce contracts are not converted into law, why would they?
      A contract between a union and part of the industries is enough.

      a personal project is clearly not work for hire
      But the employer reserves the right to convert it into a project for hire and has the rights to use it if he compensates you accordingly AND if it is written in your work contract. You probably missed that part of my argument.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    35. Re:Free is free. by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Union and center of commerce contracts are not converted into law, why would they?

      Maybe not in the jurisdiction where you live, but my point from the beginning has been that you're extrapolating from that jurisdiction when you shouldn't. For example, the current "collective agreement" for consulting and market research companies (official website of the Spanish state), which applies to all companies in the sector in Spain unless there's a regional one to override it or the employee and employer have negotiated a contract which is more favourable to the employee than this one. An explanation of the system is given here (in Spanish), and the relevant primary legislation is here.

      But the employer reserves the right to convert it into a project for hire...

      That still doesn't make any sense to me: the economic rights in a work are transferable but the moral rights are not, and the whole point of "work for hire" is to ensure that the moral rights belong to someone other than the natural person who created the work. However, reading the EU Directive on the legal protection of software, it does seem more ambiguous than I expected:

      Article 2 Authorship of computer programs

      1. The author of a computer program shall be the natural person or group of natural persons who has created the program or, where the legislation of the Member State permits, the legal person designated as the rightholder by that legislation. Where collective works are recognized by the legislation of a Member State, the person considered by the legislation of the Member State to have created the work shall be deemed to be its author.

      2. In respect of a computer program created by a group of natural persons jointly, the exclusive rights shall be owned jointly.

      3. Where a computer program is created by an employee in the execution of his duties or following the instructions given by his employer, the employer exclusively shall be entitled to exercise all economic rights in the program so created, unless otherwise provided by contract.

      While paragraph 3 supports my side of the argument (since the subject at issue is software created not in the execution of duties or following instructions), paragraph 1 does seem to allow member states to drive a massive hole through my argument.

    36. Re:Free is free. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      that the moral rights belong to someone other than the natural person who created the work
      You mix up copyright with moral rights.
      The moral rights _always_ stay with the creator.

      Again: you miss the point which I pointed out now several times: it is a question of your contract, not a question of law. Your contract can define that your work outside of your working hours fall under copyright of your employer (you retain moral rights). However if he wants to claim it, he has to compensate you for the work hours and/or expected profit.

      I did not read your links yet (as I don't speak spanish, and reading is a bit tough but I will manage): in Germany the law is, unions and commerce agree on contracts, which are binding. No change to law necessary. In other words: the law already says "if you agree to something, stick to it", no one is going to make a law after such an agreement. How should that work anyway? Laws are made by the parliament, how do you want to force it to make a law they don't like but is a mirror of an agreement between a union and an center of commerce?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    37. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me do it then: Capitalism and corporations aren't the best thing we know of.

    38. Re:Free is free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again: you miss the point which I pointed out now several times: it is a question of your contract, not a question of law.

      I'm not missing the point: the question I've been debating is whether such a clause is a contract is enforceable or whether it contradicts statute and hence is void.

      In Germany the law is, unions and commerce agree on contracts, which are binding. No change to law necessary. In other words: the law already says "if you agree to something, stick to it"

      Here I think you're missing the point: in Spain the agreement is binding even on employers and employees who didn't agree to it.

      How should that work anyway? Laws are made by the parliament, how do you want to force it to make a law they don't like but is a mirror of an agreement between a union and an center of commerce?

      It's secondary legislation. When both parties sign the negotiated text they pass it to the relevant authority, which has 20 days to either publish it or (if it believes the agreement harms the interests of parties who didn't negotiate) take it to the courts.

  2. hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $182,472 a year, is hardly hitting it big. A good developer can easily earn more than that in the commercial space, so if that is what we are calling hitting it big we are doomed, I certainly wouldn't take the pay cut to "hit it big".

    1. Re:hmmmm by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      You may not consider $182,472 a year hitting it big in your country but in a lot of places that would afford you pure luxury.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:hmmmm by Drethon · · Score: 2

      You may not consider $182,472 a year hitting it big in your country but in a lot of places that would afford you pure luxury.

      In places in the US that is true too. Where I am you can live comfortably and still save money with a quarter of that every year, anything more can pretty much go to luxuries.

    3. Re:hmmmm by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      There are literally only a handful of places in the USA where that's not enough money to become a homeowner. SF, NY, etc. That's good money. Some people made millions through stock options in the last big tech bubble and that has affected some people's notions of what good money is. It's not fuck you money, but we have too much fuck you in our society already.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:hmmmm by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Depends where you live. In rural areas more than 100k is essentially free of any financial burden - in cities it might well take 300k to break even on bills.

    5. Re:hmmmm by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      in cities it might well take 300k to break even on bills

      And caviar suppliers can get very upset when you're late paying their bills...

      I've seen the complaints about raising minimum wage to $15/hr in California. At 80 hours a week, that would give $60k. So if it takes $300k just to pay the bills, either you're doing it wrong or everyone working minimum wage in SF and LA shares a flat with two other families.

    6. Re:hmmmm by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      If you're putting in 80 hours a week you need about 100k just to cover living expenses which arise from lack of down time (another 100k if you count the inevitable medical expenses.)

    7. Re: hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "everyone working minimum wage in SF and LA shares a flat with two other families."

      Yup, you hit the nail on the head.

    8. Re:hmmmm by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      This is dumb. Why do you think housing and pricing for goods would stay at a flat rate if you raised the minuim wage.

      If anything, SF and NY are great examples of what happens of how everything cost more when you have so much money in a local area.

    9. Re:hmmmm by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      I think a "whoosh" may be in order. My point is that if a raise to $15/hr would mean that people have to work 400 hours a week to "break even on bills", current minimum wage would require working more than 400 hours a week. And since there are only 168 hours in a week, I'm pretty sure OP was confusing luxuries with bare minimum essentials.

  3. $15k a month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is way too much. Next time an open source coder begs for my money I'll just enter $0.

    1. Re:$15k a month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works both ways.
      Next time a luser like you begs for features.
      I'll just laugh and reply with a link to Programing for dummies.

  4. Make it easy for companies to contribute. Sell it by raymorris · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've spent several years being paid to do open-source development full-time. The Moodle project made it easy for my organization to contribute. In fact, that's mostly what the maintainers did - maintain the community and developer documentation, not write the code.

    First, the software is modular. One can write a Moodle module without touching the rest of the code, or even understanding it. The Apache web server and Linux kernel are similarly modular, and I've been paid to write modules for both.

    There are example modules of various types, and how to showing how to develop for Moodle.

    There is a well-maintained forum, both user forum and developer forum.

    Unit tests are included and easy to run.

    Utility functions are included, so you don't have to know *how* Moodle does things, the internal functions, you just call "add block" and Moodle adds your block to page.

    All of the messaging welcomes participation and contributions.

    All of these things encourage business, government, and non-profit organizations to contribute - meaning paying their employees to contribute.

    What Moodle didn't do was offer the ability to BUY Moodle directly from the people who run the project. You CAN sell GPL software. You just can't prevent other people from selling it under a different name. The government agency I worked for probably would have purchased it if they could have. Competing proprietary software sells for thousands of dollars per year, so $500/year, or $200/year, would have been seen as super cheap. Even though we could get the same product for free, I would have encouraged them to buy a copy, and I think they would have done so.

      Moodle allows you to DONATE, but as a government agency we weren't allowed to just give away tax money. We WERE allowed to purchase software, and there was no law that we couldn't buy software if similar software is available for free.

  5. Prestige by wolfheart111 · · Score: 2

    I'd take that over money any day :)

    --
    [($)]
  6. "Free" software isn't free by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 0

    This is an unusual recognition that free software isn't actually free. I love free and open source software, I use it regularly, and have contributed to open source efforts. But one thing the FOSS community sometimes forgets is that creating software costs time and money, lots of it...at least, for anything that's any good. SOMEBODY has to pay for it. If somebody is motivated to pay for it, great! We ALL benefit! But if nobody wants to pay for it, maybe it isn't worth so much, or maybe it needs to be...sold...as commercial software. If nobody wants to buy it, clearly, its value isn't as high as the author would like to think it is.

    1. Re:"Free" software isn't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an unusual recognition that free software isn't actually free. I love free and open source software, I use it regularly, and have contributed to open source efforts. But one thing the FOSS community sometimes forgets is that creating software costs time and money, lots of it...at least, for anything that's any good. SOMEBODY has to pay for it. If somebody is motivated to pay for it, great! We ALL benefit! But if nobody wants to pay for it, maybe it isn't worth so much, or maybe it needs to be...sold...as commercial software. If nobody wants to buy it, clearly, its value isn't as high as the author would like to think it is.

      Tell that to these people.
      OSD

    2. Re:"Free" software isn't free by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      But one thing the FOSS community sometimes forgets is that creating software costs time and money, lots of it.

      No it doesn't. This is something that the FOSS community explicitly acknowledges. The difference between Free and Proprietary software is that FOSS acknowledges that copying software doesn't cost money. The premise of TFA is flawed, because a lot of people are paid to develop FOSS, but they're not paid to produce copies of it. If someone wants a feature added to a FOSS program or library, then they can pay either the original author or someone else to develop it and that's how a huge amount of FOSS is funded. In contrast, in the proprietary off-the-shelf software world, someone pays to have a feature developed in the hope that they can charge money for copies of the software. This business model is problematic, because developing the software is expensive but copying it is trivial and so you need to rely on legal and technical protections to try to prevent people from doing the easy thing so that they will pay you for the expensive thing that you did for free.

      Now, it would be nice to have an easier mechanism for 1,000 people to each pay for 1,000th of the cost of developing a new feature...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:"Free" software isn't free by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      FOSS acknowledges that copying software doesn't cost money

      This is a simplistic view.

      If the software's "user" is technically-inclined, and perhaps willing to modify the source code of the software he copied, then in a sense the copying didn't cost the author any money. But if the software is intended to be used by large numbers of people, including those who are not so technical, then copies do indeed cost money, in the form of customer support and bug fixes for disparate configurations.

      Now, it would be nice to have an easier mechanism for 1,000 people to each pay for 1,000th of the cost of developing a new feature

      I think you just invented software license fees.

    4. Re:"Free" software isn't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In contrast, in the proprietary off-the-shelf software world, someone pays to have a feature developed in the hope that they can charge money for copies of the software. This business model is problematic, because developing the software is expensive but copying it is trivial and so you need to rely on legal and technical protections to try to prevent people from doing the easy thing so that they will pay you for the expensive thing that you did for free.

      The expensive thing was developing the software feature itself, that cost is then amortized across users of the software by each user buying a license to use it, some may pay a bit more, some may pay a bit less (like taxes, some government services I use more, some I use less but I'm not about to go and contract the roads to be built myself or to crowdfund building of them) and if it's a really successful project the developer benefits as a measure of that success. The gamble is whether it is going to successful enough to justify its initial development cost. It's actually quite a good model if you, like the vast majority of people, aren't interested in the code.

      The free software model is problematic because the investment in development is not able to be recouped directly so you either develop a feature because you happen to be a software developer and need to use that feature to make money or because somebody paid you to develop it up-front. The latter is of course easy for companies to contract software developers, not so much for individuals that want a feature, just getting a contract done for any non-trivial feature is generally going to be outside the scope what an individual can do.

      And let's not pretend proprietary software is the only one relying on legal protections, if legal protections on copyright went away then so-called "Free Software" would truly be free of restriction, unlike how it is now.

  7. Why should it be subsidized by anyone? by brainchill · · Score: 2

    Ok, you got past the clickbait ..... basically my answer is why should it be subsidized by anyone, UNLESS, they have a vested interest in seeing changes/core features added to whichever part of the software that they are particularly interested in ...... so the answer is .... the people working on the projects in their spare time for fun, do it as long as it's fun for them, and when it isn't, when it starts feeling like a job, either find someone that values your contributions and get them to pay you to work on it, or stop and do something else.

    1. Re:Why should it be subsidized by anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Software never stands still. Even if software isn't changing you still have to pay the maintenance costs, or run the risk of the code becoming unbuildable and irrelevant. Most projects are only interesting in the "it's new and shiny" phase so you'll see most FOSS folks running toward todays' fancy firework. Paying someone to maintain a project is tricky because we all know software maintainers are the garbage collectors of the technology world. You'll never get recognized as a maintainer.

      It's like most other things in the world. You wouldn't last long without water and food but no-one knows the name of the farmer that produced the carrots in their fridge. No-one knows who lubricated the water pumps that feed the water line to their house. Someone has to pay for infrastructure, we can't just assume it magically comes into existence because we need it.

    2. Re:Why should it be subsidized by anyone? by sfcat · · Score: 2

      Ok, you got past the clickbait ..... basically my answer is why should it be subsidized by anyone, UNLESS, they have a vested interest in seeing changes/core features added to whichever part of the software that they are particularly interested in ...... so the answer is .... the people working on the projects in their spare time for fun, do it as long as it's fun for them, and when it isn't, when it starts feeling like a job, either find someone that values your contributions and get them to pay you to work on it, or stop and do something else.

      Because most of the folks who use that FOSS aren't aware they are using it, but you better believe that if that software breaks they get upset. The folks who use those libraries should be buying maintenance contracts on that software. That was the original business plan for FOSS. Of course, plenty of folks never contribute either with code or maintenance contracts.

      The funny part of all of this, is that currently there is a lot of recognition by the business powers that be that bad software is now a serious business risk. But of course their solution is to buy malware insurance when instead they should be fixing their IT and buying maintenance contracts for things like OpenSSL.

      Now there is a big difference between LLVM or gcc or some of the other major FOSS packages and whatever favor of the week web framework someone shit out because they don't understand why parts of the API they use do the things they do (often for good reasons). Most FOSS software probably doesn't rise to the level of deserving funding but I find the level of acrimony over someone asking for funding to be way over the top. If you don't think a posters project doesn't deserve funding, just scroll down. If someone else chooses to contribute that's good for you. Why be so against someone asking?

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    3. Re:Why should it be subsidized by anyone? by ChatHuant · · Score: 1

      The folks who use those libraries should be buying maintenance contracts on that software. That was the original business plan for FOSS.

      But this business plan creates all the wrong incentives. If you want to make money from maintaining your open source software, you need to make maintenance necessary - but if your software is good enough to begin with, people won't need maintenance, and you won't get paid.

      On the contrary, that creates an incentive to make the software buggy and incomplete. Businesses will need to hire you to fix issues and develop missing features. Also, if maintenance is too easy, a business could just hire some cheap intern to manage your software. This creates an incentive to make the barrier of entry to maintenance high enough - for example via bad documentation and obscure features.

    4. Re:Why should it be subsidized by anyone? by sfcat · · Score: 1

      The folks who use those libraries should be buying maintenance contracts on that software. That was the original business plan for FOSS.

      But this business plan creates all the wrong incentives. If you want to make money from maintaining your open source software, you need to make maintenance necessary - but if your software is good enough to begin with, people won't need maintenance, and you won't get paid.

      On the contrary, that creates an incentive to make the software buggy and incomplete. Businesses will need to hire you to fix issues and develop missing features. Also, if maintenance is too easy, a business could just hire some cheap intern to manage your software. This creates an incentive to make the barrier of entry to maintenance high enough - for example via bad documentation and obscure features.

      I agree with you actually. Stallman was no business genius. The way I see that this could work would be if the malware insurers would require and fund this type of work but I have my doubts that that would happen. It makes way to much sense. Really there needs to be a cost to not having maintenance support in place to businesses and the only way I see that happening is via insurance requirements to get malware insurance. That might be a good way to go as I see every larger business putting costly processes in place to vet libraries but those processes are little more than rubber stamps most of the time and don't do what they were really designed to do. And outsourcing that to the malware insurer would be a way to ensure that process has some teeth and FOSS devs have to produce a certain level of quality to be included/used in business. But this entire scheme is highly dependent upon a processes that's likely to be highly bureaucratic which isn't exactly a recipe for success in software.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    5. Re:Why should it be subsidized by anyone? by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      The folks who use those libraries should be buying maintenance contracts on that software. That was the original business plan for FOSS.

      You're speaking out of your arse. Free Software never had any kind of business plan, "original" or otherwise. It isn't now and never has been about business - it has always been about software freedom: the right of users to see, modify, and redistribute the code of any software they use...and for anyone they redistribute to to ALSO have those exact same rights to do what they want with it (i.e. you can sell it but you can't stop your customer - or anyone else - from also selling it or giving it away)

      If someone makes some money from writing or distributing it, then that's fine but nobody really gives a fuck - that's not and never has been what Free Software is about. It's certainly not part of "the plan".

  8. I like prestige, and need groceries by raymorris · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Myself, I enjoy prestige. I like that my name is in the kernel changelog.

    I NEED money. I HAVE to eat, and my kid has to eat.

    Prestige is nice, money is required. Given the choice between no money and lots of prestige, or the opposite, I'd take the money, so my kid can eat.

    I was fortunate to be able to get paid to work on open-source for several years. I'd like to do that again, but due to changes related to globalization I don't think that's very likely to happen. Not for me at this point in my career.

    Very early in my career, it occurred to me that if I wanted power, fame, and money, I should start with fame. Being very well known carries with it a degree of power - even Instagram models and other "social influencers" have the ability to influence others by being well-known. If you well-known for being very good at something, being an expert, that's more power - Stephen Hawking influenced a lot of people, and his opinions could sway others. Heck, even being really good at basketball set Dennis Rodman on a path to influencing international relations. Not deciding them, but influencing them. Once you have game and influence, it's not that hard to leverage those to get money. Especially if you're well known for being very good at something, people will pay you to do that thing - or write books about it. So fortunately you don't have to choose between prestige and money, long-term.

    For people early in their careers, or stagnating, making significant contributions to open source can add some prestige to their resume, which can definitely lead to more money. Once or twice in interviews I've had the good fortune to be asked of I was familiar with certain software and been able to say I've helped write that software, I've contributed to it. Someone asked if I know LVM (a major part of the Linux storage stack), I mentioned that I'm the maintainer of the Linux::LVM Perl module. (Which needs a new maintainer, btw, and probably a rewrite to the API).

  9. Non-commercial licence by bug1 · · Score: 1

    I feel the FOSS community would be in a much healthier place if it allowed non-commercial licenses, provided the software available under standard commercial FRAND terms for those non-commercial users.

    If the price of paying for a commercial license is cheaper than paying lawyers, i think there would be much higher license compliance, and much would be used to promote further development.

    Unfortunately this will never happen with the support of the FOSS community, there is too much self interest by corporations in maintaining their current freeloader status-quo.

    1. Re:Non-commercial licence by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      If the price of paying for a commercial license is cheaper than paying lawyers

      It doesn't work like that. The company lawyers always want to read the license, no matter how cheap or expensive the software. It's easiest by far wiht F/OSS with standard licenses because the lawyers (if they're any good) just go "yep I know this, accept".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  10. this evan guy is an outlier.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $790 annually from each of his 200+ donors for a 'flavor-of-the-month' script?

    that's the 'lost 50 pounds and 10 inches in 1 week' bullshit or the guy that constantly turns $1 purchases at government auctions into $250k sales you see on infomercials. it's not gonna happen for you .

  11. Pizza! by bobby · · Score: 2

    And beer!

  12. By targeted ads by jader3rd · · Score: 0

    Track users behavior, targeted ads to them, and let the corporations pay for it all. That's how the profitable open source companies work.

  13. How about freeing up some of that $7.5B? by tlambert · · Score: 2

    How about freeing up some of that $7.5B?

    That's what Microsoft paid for GitHub.

    1. Re:How about freeing up some of that $7.5B? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How about freeing up some of that $7.5B?

      That's what Microsoft paid for GitHub.

      . . . but why did Microsoft buy GitHub . . . ?

      The Economist has an interesting opinion on this:

      https://www.economist.com/the-...

      Microsoft assures users the service is safe under its stewardship, but many are wary. When Mr Ballmer spoke of developers, he had a specific sort in mind: those using Microsoft’s tools to build projects for Microsoft products. He once called open-source Linux a “cancer”, which would spread uncontrollably. In a sense, his words proved prophetic: today, open-source software is everywhere, from websites to financial markets to self-driving cars. Under Mr Nadella’s leadership, Microsoft has embraced open-source development. In buying GitHub it hopes to gain the trust of developers it once spurned. But some wonder if the change is complete, or if Microsoft will use its newly bought dominance of open-source hosting to push its own products. Alternatives to GitHub—some themselves open-source—wait in the wings. If it is not careful, Microsoft may find the developers it just paid so much to reach slipping from its grasp.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:How about freeing up some of that $7.5B? by swillden · · Score: 1

      As the article says, there are plenty of alternatives waiting in the wings. Github got big because of network effects; everyone used it because everyone else used it. But the effect is weak in this case. If a competing service can offer some moderately-significant advantage, projects will move. If Microsoft makes Github harder for non-Windows projects to use, or even just stops improving it, another service will become the default home for open source projects.

      I think Microsoft understands this.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  14. Depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems like I have to spend so much time fixing some of our open source third-party libraries to work properly in an enterprise setting... we're even.

  15. Common models don't cover all projects by Octorian · · Score: 1

    One of the most common business models I see people talk about, is the good 'ole "give away the code, but sell support." There are many variations of this approach, but they pretty much all rely on an assumption that you're making software that's useful to large companies with cash to burn.

    However, in the huge field of "end-user application software," I have yet to see anyone offer up a viable business model. You're not going to be selling any nebulous "support," and there's a pretty good chance that your users will never be contributing developers. Just about the only approach I can think of (besides donations) is to make said software "paid" on some sort of app store, and hope that only a minority of your users ever find a way to get around that paywall.

    1. Re:Common models don't cover all projects by sfcat · · Score: 1

      One of the most common business models I see people talk about, is the good 'ole "give away the code, but sell support." There are many variations of this approach, but they pretty much all rely on an assumption that you're making software that's useful to large companies with cash to burn.

      However, in the huge field of "end-user application software," I have yet to see anyone offer up a viable business model. You're not going to be selling any nebulous "support," and there's a pretty good chance that your users will never be contributing developers. Just about the only approach I can think of (besides donations) is to make said software "paid" on some sort of app store, and hope that only a minority of your users ever find a way to get around that paywall.

      You must be new here then. I guess you've never heard of QT. Their model is that you must purchase the software if your software is proprietary and you don't have to if its not.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    2. Re:Common models don't cover all projects by Octorian · · Score: 1

      I've heard of Qt since the late 90's, and use it every day. Its an application development framework, not end-user application software. So yeah, Qt has a model to support itself.

      But please tell me, again, how exactly one makes money off of F/OSS "end-user application software" built using Qt?
      I'm waiting...

    3. Re:Common models don't cover all projects by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Bounty systems and similar. Community raises X amount to finance a project or developer (who should have a reputation of carrying through) says that if the community can raise X, he will do this amount of work. I know of at least one small company making a living for a couple of developers and a developer/manager this way.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    4. Re:Common models don't cover all projects by sfcat · · Score: 1

      I've heard of Qt since the late 90's, and use it every day. Its an application development framework, not end-user application software. So yeah, Qt has a model to support itself.

      But please tell me, again, how exactly one makes money off of F/OSS "end-user application software" built using Qt? I'm waiting...

      Qt is nice; I like it too. In the case of end-user FOSS software, it would usually be a support contract. Not saying its a good business model but there it is. The other model is a limited free version and a paid full version. As long as there are not any statically linked GPL libraries, this is all legal. If you are using a JVM (or other interpreted or VM based) language, this isn't even an issue. All the GPL really enforces is that you can update GPL binaries inside of your application.

      For end-user software, you should probably be trying to rent it out first, if that isn't possible then sell it and if that isn't possible make it FOSS. FOSS isn't great for end-user software. Really FOSS isn't great if you users are not developers. If you are developing a FOSS end-user app, then that's not the easiest way to make a living and you have my sympathy.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    5. Re:Common models don't cover all projects by skids · · Score: 1

      The FOSS projects (other than base OS) that I am most closely involved with in using where I work fall into this category... but it's been hard to sell buying those support agreements to management. Either we're using a project because it "costs nothing" and we're ignoring the availability of support to back up our local talent, or we use a non-FOSS project (with its support) because management seems to consider for-pay software more reputable... and they will even prefer some third party supporting someone else's FOSS software to buying support directly from that project for some reason. The more commercial sounding the vendor, the more likely we'll go with them. It's a bit perverse.

      On the other hand I have the flexibility at this job to do a bit of customization and send PRs back upstream, so at least we sort of pay... in code.

      Anyway this model sort of ignores the sunk cost of getting the software into a useful state to begin with... you only make money on the feature adds, and you have to figure out how to backfill all the time spent initially developing the base project without pricing yourself out of the market of everyone competing to support your project.

      I'm a pretty strong FOSS advocate but given the state of things I really do not see a problem with the model of "payers get early access" model... which used to be called "ransomware" before that word took on a whole new meaning. Basically people can get their feature requests worked on and then embargoed so only they (or in some models, any paying customer) can use that code for a certain number of months. This allows competitive advantages to be bought which adds some value to the purchase.

      The end result is the FOSS edition of the product trails the leading edge by some time lag, but as long as the organization has a strong charter, everything eventually ends up FOSS.

  16. That's easy.... by GerryGilmore · · Score: 1

    ...those entities that benefit the most from open source software - be they large commercial enterprises or government agencies - should be the ones to contribute the most.
    To be fair, many companies and government agencies (SELinux, etc.) HAVE contributed back in many ways, but what seems to be missing in most of their projects is any desire to deeply investigate some of the core under-pinnings that are taken for granted until they blow up in some very visible fashion (Heartbleed, anyone?) instead of creating a shiny new language/framework/etc. to make it easier to create the latest appity-app.
    Too bad.

    1. Re:That's easy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...those entities that benefit the most from open source software - be they large commercial enterprises or government agencies - should be the ones to contribute the most.
        To be fair, many companies and government agencies (SELinux, etc.) HAVE contributed back in many ways, but what seems to be missing in most of their projects is any desire to deeply investigate some of the core under-pinnings that are taken for granted until they blow up in some very visible fashion (Heartbleed, anyone?) instead of creating a shiny new language/framework/etc. to make it easier to create the latest appity-app.
      Too bad.

      You have that backward. The corporations be it public or private would like nothing more then not have to deal with constant churn. That churn is created by OSS. The devil is in the details.

      Using one very simple example or webcaching. HTTP1.1 by default has zero problems supporting caching, the issues come from Google, MIcrosoft and Mozilla trying to "secure" the web by intentionally breaking it for anything but their latest wares. In some cases even their own browsers get hit (Microsoft for example). Sure some of the changes went through the w3c but that doesn't mean software which has been around for years, will suddenly supuport their rather bastard "additions". Squid for example.

      Thus the churn. The pain in the ass trying to keep upto date with changes coming out of a very, very small group of companies. The best part perhaps is how god awfully bad some of those changes are. In the case of http caching, HSTS, cert pinning, etc all BROKE caching. Given people pay through the ass for bandwidth one has to wonder why.

      My point is most corporations do not want to deal with this crap every year. At some point I suspect in the very near future, it will become cheaper to ship software on media again. To print things on paper and record on other media rather then risk the legal challenges of shit like the DMCA being applied retroactively.

      tl;DR - Companies like Google are quite aware how to squeeze free dev work. They're also quite capable of making fundamental changes to the way things work with little to no oversight. That way of thinking is being drilled into new devs coming into the field especially the parts about "old grey beards being against any change". They are arrogant, self rightious little brats. Daddy built the house and they can't be bothered to even cut the grass.

    2. Re:That's easy.... by turbidostato · · Score: 2

      "...those entities that benefit the most from open source software - be they large commercial enterprises or government agencies - should be the ones to contribute the most."

      In fact they do. The problem is that corporations are such pathological structures that they can't help themselves.

      Some years ago, it came into fashion the term "coopetition": companies identify where are they really competing and what's just scaffolding (i.e.: infrastructure software) where they could cooperate instead.

      They idea is sound, it's simply corporations are so toxic they can't develop on it themselves alone so they require another company to do that for themselves. I currently work for a big bank which, in turn, pays high bills for in-house Red Hat consultors. The biggest value those consultors bring to the table is that they talk to their colleagues that are doing exactly the same for other banks of the competition and share problems, tricks and solutions. If we were sane, we could do exactly the same and save the steep profit Red Hat is making out of it, but, you know, we just can't (I would probably be fired if tried to do what those Red Hat consultors are doing, and payed for doing).

  17. *BSD's Black Shroud of Death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went out to *BSD's grave on Decoration Day. The old forgotten cemetery is by the dark woods beyond the edge of town. There within olfactory distance of the municipal treatment plant you will find *BSD's final resting place.

    *BSD's tombstone was shrouded by thick mosses and knots of noxious ivy. I gently pulled aside the tangled twists of thorns, and cleaned the decaying marker the best I could. My melancholy thoughts pondered that this indeed was *BSD's figurative charnel house of which so many have plaintively spoken.

    Nothing is so pitiful as an untended grave, a loved one now forgotten. The short sad life of this doomed and fated OS makes us realize that there but for the grace of God go all of us.

    I planted some wilting marigolds which I had found discarded behind Bud's Garden Center. By some miracle perhaps they will take root and bring a modicum of cheer to BSD's God forsaken plot. My fervent hope is that the torpid colored boy who carelessly mows the cemetery doesn't slice them down, inadvertently mirroring *BSD's own doomed encounter with death's irresistible scythe.

    Funny how things work out. Linux, that brilliant novam stellam, now runs the Internet and the world's fastest computers, while *BSD lies moldering within its forgotten crypt. Let the barren silence of *BSD's tomb be a mute reminder that hubris and braggadocio were no defense on that woeful day when the Angel of Death's bleak umbra was cast upon *BSD.

  18. Idealy you shouldn't need that by Casandro · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If your code is so complex that you need significant amounts of work just to maintain it, you have done something wrong.
    Free Software means that your users are able to use and change that software, if it's to complex you're robbing your users of that possibility as maintaining a fork would be to expensive for them. This makes your software just "Open Source", but not truly "Free" (as in speech).

    Taking money is of course OK, but as with every software project, it should have a fairly well defined "end" after which the rate of changes drops rapidly as no new features are being added and the only changes are bug-fixes.

    1. Re:Idealy you shouldn't need that by El+Cubano · · Score: 1

      If your code is so complex that you need significant amounts of work just to maintain it, you have done something wrong.

      As with many things, it depends. If the code in question is a static HTML content generator, a GUI toolkit, a media streaming library, maybe a database driver, etc. then you are correct. However, if the code in question is a cryptography library, an authentication library, or an image processing library (a good one with lots of capabilities like ImageMagick or GraphicsMagick), then the domain will dictate a great deal of the complexity.

      I have been involved in some security work and I can tell you that not all code is created equal. Some developers do a good job of making difficult code easy to work on, while others make easy code difficult to work on. Sometimes, it is just difficult and complex all around.

      As far as software being too complex robbing users of the possibility of maintaining a fork, it cannot always be avoided. For example, as a developer, do you know the first rule of cryptography and authentication? Don't develop your own, because you will do it wrong. In cases like that, you want to go with a trusted library with a good reputation for security and you don't want to mess with it yourself. In domains like that, even the experts get wrong sometimes (go browse the CVE descriptions at MITRE if you don't believe me).

    2. Re:Idealy you shouldn't need that by lkcl · · Score: 2

      If your code is so complex that you need significant amounts of work just to maintain it, you have done something wrong.

      i replied to this already (and moderators reacted badly to plain simple facts and the detrimental consequences that had for my health and my family's well-being, so i'll have to repeat it again). certain classes of (desirable) technical designs / problems are simply not possible to implement in "simple" ways. you just can't. these include things like dynamic name-registration / publication / defending services (like nmbd and sadly zeroconf which is nearly identical to nmbd), NT Domains Interoperability, MSRPC, DCOM, Firefox, webkit, and pretty much absolutely anything and everything to do with cryptography.

      anyone can *and has* written a web server, and anyone can and has written a web framework. modular, too, and damn good designs.

      but things like the NT SpoolSS service took TWO YEARS to reverse-engineer. the network neighbourhood in samba for example took THREE years to implement correctly - that was with about 3 separate people working on it at different points.

      Firefox is a particularly sad case, unfortunately, where even with money and funding they still didn't go far enough in the "complexity". if you recall that adage "must be as simple as possible but no simpler", Firefox's XPCOM was "based" around DCOM. DCOM is *extremely* well-designed and when you drop a dynamic programming language (like python) on top of DCOM it's absolutely unbelievable: so simple to use that absolutely nobody using it has any idea that there's been man-decades of work gone in behind it: everything "just works".

      in DCOM there's something called co-classes. co-classes are like the dynamic run-time equivalent of c++ multiple-inheritance. even using c you can do "default parameters" by declaring two (or three, or four) near-identical functions, each slightly longer (one extra parameter), and declare a "co-class" that MERGES all those near-identical functions into one (new) interface.

      Firefox failed to implement co-classes in XPCOM.

      that resulted in some absolutely disastrous consequences. absolutely any and every change to the API resulted in a cascade of incompatibility for 3rd parties trying to use the XULRUNNER engine in their code. why did they change the API? because normally you would declare a new interface and co-class it. without co-classes you're completely f*****d, you *must* change the API, and that completely and utterly wrecks interoperability: it's not like gcc dynamic linking, the actual *interface* DISAPPEARS because it gets renumbered as part of the change.

      am i painting a picture here that this sort of thing simply is too complex for a single person, part-time, to cope with? am i painting a picture that trying to SIMPLIFY something that should not have been simplified results in disastrous consequences? if so then i've managed to get the point across.

      p.s. you can fund my current work here - http://liberapay.com/lkcl - that's a libre version of patreon.

    3. Re:Idealy you shouldn't need that by dwpro · · Score: 1

      I wrote a 'simple' app to roast coffee for a niche coffee roaster on Android. Probably 150 hours of work. Subsequently Google has changed the way background services run twice, completely killing my app. I have made a total of $20 for my work, and I'm hard pressed to figure out how to sing and dance for Google to respect their tyrannical battery saving requirements for an app that needs constant communication over USB for 15 minutes, even as a hobby passion. Where did I go wrong?

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
  19. $20/yr spread across projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $20/yr spread across projects will go a long way. The hard part is that $2/yr of that needs to go to advertising to get the other $18.

    I'm pretty cheap, but I'd happily drop a $20 bill into an envelop if it was going to be split to the projects I want in the way I want.
    [] 100% to X
    [] 25%/ea to W, X, Y, Z
    [] 10%/ea to A... J
    [Custom]

    I'd want pay
    * Linux kernel
    * Gnu
    * Infrastructure projects (sans systemd)
    * rdiff-backup
    * openbox
    * Thunderbird
    * Lightning
    * ZNC
    * Gnome (general)

    1. Re: $20/yr spread across projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you help develop systemd, then YOU are the one who should pay ME if I have to use it in any capacity.

  20. It shouldn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Money corrupts projects. Everything I've seen money thrown at gets hooked on income. Before you know it point becomes making money instead of writing code.

  21. Cost recovery basis, not insane lust for infinity by shanen · · Score: 1

    Repeating the ancient suggestion, but I think OSS would best be developed on a per-project basis recovering the costs, NOT speculating on infinite profits. The specific solution approach I would recommend would be a CSB (Charity Share Brokerage), where the wannabe donors would each buy a $10-share in the projects they want to support. If enough donors support the project, then it gets funded.

    The CSB would hold the money and provide project-support services to earn a percentage of the budget from the successfully funded projects. In particular, the CSB would make sure the project proposals were complete, which covers such details as realistic schedules, adequate resources (including commitments from the key programmers), hardware costs, complete budgets (including compensation for the key programmers and external contributors), sufficient testing, and clear success criteria. After each project is completed, the CSB will also be responsible for evaluating the results against the success criteria and reporting to the donors who bought the charity shares and to the public.

    Some projects should be for new features, others for ongoing costs (as when a server is required to support a feature), and others for various aspects of support. In cases where an ongoing-cost (or support) project becomes unfunded, there needs to be graceful degradation. For example, the server could switch to a notice that the server is not funded for the current period, but if the wannabe users of that feature sign up to buy shares for the next funding period, then they can use the feature pending full funding. (Other wrinkles are possible, such as recommending the use of an alternative version of the feature that doesn't require the server.)

    As usual, I close the ancient joke with ADSAuPR. Out of time now.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  22. What if you don't scratch an itch? by Hairy1 · · Score: 1

    Some Open Source gets written because a developer is scratching their own itch. They have a job they want the software to do, and because you can't get any closer to the user than being the user this approach works really well. And because software developers like helping each other and getting a little thanks and credit we see Open Source grow. Some companies understand the use value and support open source projects, examples being Apache. Some do a Open Source core and charge money to earn a crust.

    However, there is a gap, where multiple companies might need an application and they could cooperate to develop a solution. Patreon may be a way for companies to collaborate on developing open source solutions through sharing development costs with other organisations. If companies have a common need, but the software does not exist, there needs to be a mechanism to get the job done and make it Open Source.

  23. How about no by quonset · · Score: 1

    If you're not going to pay people for the music, movies or software they produce, don't expect someone to pay for what you produce.

  24. Science by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

    FOSS is nothing more than the scientific method applied to software production: share your work so that others can verify and improve on it. Today, it also seems that FOSS largely provides the same function in society, as the basis on which technological innovations work. If society can find ways to fund fundamental scientific research, I'm sure they could do the same for FOSS (and a lot of Free software is already being written at universities). Unfortunately, it seems that scientists themselves have been forgetting that ideal, as universities are being turned into R&D units for businesses.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  25. Unpopular but correct answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    UBI or negative income tax

  26. Charge, but allow distribution of modifications by Mandrel · · Score: 1

    Just charge for a licence to use the software in a production context, while still allowing anyone to release a fork and charge a premium, the remainder flowing back to the root of the fork tree. This retains the most important benefits of open source, while compensating the value adders.

  27. With socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The answer to the information age is socialism.
    You've either already worked that out, or you'll die before reaching enlightenment.

  28. The real unpopular but correct answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Communism

  29. Missing The Point Entirely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open Source has always been about creating code for the community, starting a project that solves a problem and leveraging developers from all around the world to make it as great as it can be. That's it.

    Open Source Projects are things we work on for fun, to sharpen our skills, to try new techniques and investigate new ideas. While some of us ask for donations, it has never been intended to be a revenue stream on its own. It's a community effort. It's giving back to everyone who came before us. If you can make something like Patreon work, then that's great! That's really cool! But don't expect that to happen, and certainly don't count on it happening, and that shouldn't be the why you create or contribute to a project.

    If your open source project isn't making you money and can't earn you a living, well, too bad. Get a job. Contributing to an open source community is like donating to your local animal shelter and expecting them to come clean up your dog's poop for you. That isn't how it works; you give because you want to give, you give because you want animals to have a better life and you want your community to be elevated.

    Same with open source software. It isn't about you. It's about everyone.

    If you are burned out on your project, money isn't going to change that. Never has, never will. Burn out is a whole other problem entirely. Just leave your porject with a decent license and let people fork it, or shift ownership to someone who is interested in the project.

    1. Re:Missing The Point Entirely by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Open Source has always been about creating code for the community, starting a project that solves a problem and leveraging developers from all around the world to make it as great as it can be. That's it.

      "Always"? Having been around for a while, I beg to differ.
      Open source was about seeing a problem or something fun, hacking some code for it, and to not be stuck with maintaining it, give the source away.

      Anyone using the word "leveraging" when hey mean "using" isn't a hacker, but a bureaucratic cog in the machinery.

  30. FOSS often suffers from "The Last Mile Problem" by SurenEnfiajyan · · Score: 1

    FOSS works where it can be monetized by services, hardware lockdown, or donations. Some people call it as "The Blessed Trinity". And if the software doesn't fall in the blessed trinity category then sorry, a complex FOSS software will likely fail and won't be usable except for its developers. Unpaid/volunteer (F)OSS developers are generally itch scratchers and do only the parts of programming which are fun and exciting or they need need it personally. But this is 10-20% of the actual effort and 80-90% of the actual result. And the last 10-20% of polishing require 80-90% of the effort which are boring and unpleasant jobs such as documentation, bug fixing, QA, regression testing, following user interface design guidelines, etc... I could list them for hours. Such jobs often require financial motivation and deep knowledge/talent in particular areas. This problem is known as "The Last Mile Problem" which is well illustrated in JZW's CADT model and Artem Tashkinov's Major Linux Problems on the Desktop.

    1. Re:FOSS often suffers from "The Last Mile Problem" by Octorian · · Score: 1

      One category I love to call out, which doesn't fit these categories, is plain old end-user application software. You know, the things people (who aren't developing software themselves) actually own a computer to run, once you get past the web browser.

      I still have yet to hear anyone present me with a viable business model that covers this area, which is why F/OSS rarely rises to the same level of quality as anything commercial in this area. (That being said, I'd gladly pay for commercial software that runs on Linux, when/if that's actually an option... But its not an option as often as I'd like.)

  31. Emotional baggage. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TechCrunch warns that "It's not just that people are free riding, it's often that they don't even realize it. Software engineers can easily forget just how much craftsmanship has gone into the open source code that powers the most basic of applications...

    Are we to be surprised by this? Human behavior is human behavior regardless if it's open source efforts or some artist creating a song, writing a book, or making a movie. At least with open source there's no built-in guilt trip (aka asking for compensation) to free riding. No consequences like DRM.

  32. Idealy you shouldn't need that: Objects. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The benefits of an object-oriented language without learning an object-oriented language.

  33. Through voluntary donations. by scourfish · · Score: 1

    If the state starts subsidizing it, they will eventually exert more control and regulation over it, and it won't be for the better.

  34. Old White Man's News Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RT.COM

    https://www.rt.com/business/430715-physical-gold-currency-war/

    Of course you can also use CNN and commit suicide.

  35. Alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.) Run your own Server with SSH/SCP. Cost: 50 dollar/euros.
    2.) use RT.COM instead of CNN. Don't commit suicide, white man !

  36. Communist software not working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GNU or GPL is pure communist licensing. If you're going to write code, get paid for it and don't give it away. If you are honorable enough to give it away, then release it under the BSD license or even better, public domain. You're an idiot for releasing under the GPL.

  37. Ads infect/track/slow users: This stops that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).

    Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any SINGLE solution (99% of threats = hostnames vs. IP address that most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

    (Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" competitors slowing you, hosts speed you up 2 ways (adblocks + hardcodes u spend most time @) vs. competition loaded w/ bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + their overheads (messagepass ('souled-out' to advertiser addons) + filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploitation).

    * ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI on Linux/BSD...

    APK

    P.S.=> Much better vs. Windows model in speed & efficiency + new "merge" feature... apk

  38. Registered /.ers opinions of the Win64 model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your software is just fine - well written, functional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine by mmell February 17, 2017

    (APK's work), I've flat out said it's good by BronsCon February 11 2016

    his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant August 10 2015

    his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg September 25 2015

    I like your host file system by Karmashock September 09 2015

    I do use APK's host file on all my systems at home by OrangeTide December 01 2017

    I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017

    * See subject: Best part's the Linux 64-bit model's faster & more efficient (does 2x the work in 1/2 the time)

    APK

    P.S.=> Enjoy a faster/safer/more reliable internet... apk

  39. Re: Free is free. NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Free is not free.

    You're confusing things, I just don't know if it's deliberate.

    Free is what is done with Freedom. You can and it's perfectly OK to charge for your work -- even nice within moderation.

    Of course, it's possible not to charge -- and, yes, there is such things as a free lunches.

    That said, there are other considerations, like political ones (let's just leave at that)... this is something to keep in mind when vying for contributions. If you think the quality of a technical product should be the only factor in choice, I'd say you're an idiot (in the ancient Greek sense, not being offensive here). That will not be helpful in the long run.

    With that out of the way, that is a question which bothered me to no end since long. I was once a Mandra^W Mandriva Linux user and I was very sad to see the company flunk. Always posted a lot of suggestions, but as often happens with technical folks, they sucked incredibly at just reaching breakeven.

    I believe we have better options now, from simple crowdsourcing to some regular donation payments. People like me are under strict control (due to public employment) and cannot even think about anonymity when donating; therefore it is very important for any payment method to be transparent and fully legal (without using any tax loopholes, for example).

    Also, regarding my own finances -- but that applies probably to many others -- I cannot do any complicated once-a-year bigger amount donation. I would rather favor a monthly (or even quarterly) smaller amount. That pay-what-you-want method like used in Zorin is OK, me thinks, except it probably would be better done as a subscription -- just like Microsoft is doing with Office 365. I guess a value similar to what magazines charge would make a good amount, given enough paying users.

  40. Premise invalid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Premise invalid.

    Complex things DO require complex maintenance.

    Zen shit doesn't apply here.. complexity is unavoidable and MUST be dealt with or it turns into technical debt.

    Or repeat history, whatever.

  41. Subsidized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source is free. No subsidy required.

  42. Support Your Libraries! by friedmud · · Score: 2

    I started and have headed a large open source project for the last 10 years: (plug!) http://mooseframework.org/ (quick description: think open source COMSOL on steroids).

    We have a few thousand users spread across the world... but only a fraction of them contribute monetarily back to the project. We are lucky though that we are based at a US national laboratory where we are able to use government programs in support of energy research to pay for our project.

    Going open source was a measured decision that took at lot of time to come to. Ultimately, we decided that creating an open platform for science was better than trying to charge license fees... and instead of taking money from our users our model is to partner with them to write proposals for joint funding. That model is working out ok so far (some years better than others!).

    However: we not only create an open source library... we rely on many as well. The two biggest ones that we use are libMesh ( http://libmesh.github.io/ ) and PETSc ( https://www.mcs.anl.gov/petsc/ ). In both cases we have paid for full-time developers on those libraries for pretty much the entirety of our project. Sometimes we ask them to complete certain tasks for us - but for the most part the money is given with minimal strings attached so they can maintain their software and continue to make it better (not just for us, but for everyone).

    For some of the smaller libraries we use we often fund work at universities associated with those projects. Sometimes it's a small amount of money - but we try to give _something_.

    Everyone that is making money (for-profit or non-profit) while using open-source software should try to fund the projects you directly rely on as much as possible. Like many other things: even a little bit goes a long way. Open-source has never meant "you should use it and not monetarily support it"... people need $ to keep going.

  43. Re:Cost recovery basis, not insane lust for infini by pjt33 · · Score: 1

    Obviously there are implementation details, but the overview in your first paragraph isn't entirely dissimilar to Kickstarter and similar crowd-funding platforms. The main difference seems to be the accountability structure you propose, which certainly sounds like it could be an improvement on Kickstarter.

  44. Re:For U by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    "The first time I changed the world, I was hailed as a visionary. The second time I was asked politely to retire. The world only tolerates one change at a time. And so here I am. Enjoying my "retirement". Are you a retired Visionary... ? Of course this part :( "Nothing is impossible, Mr. Angier, what you want is simply expensive."

    --
    [($)]
  45. Re:Cost recovery basis, not insane lust for infini by shanen · · Score: 1

    Yes, the problem with all of the crowdfunding platforms I've heard of is that they have become too much like a lottery. An appealing proposal may be vastly overfunded, and Kickstarter doesn't care since they take their money off the front. You've surely heard about some of the disastrous results due to the lack of accountability. Kickstarter is quite careful to disclaim any responsibility for results and deny any liability. Youse pays yer money and youse takes yer chances, but Kickstarter has already gotten theirs.

    I think the saddest story was that of Diaspora. Basically a good idea to replace Facebook with a inverted platform, where you would host your own personal data ("Possession is nine points of the law") and have ultimate control over it. If they had just implemented the basic platform, they might have had a chance to add improvements later on, but because they were greatly overfunded, they tried to redesign a grandiose project on the fly, and the result was basically disastrous. (I still believe the catastrophic "success" contributed to the suicide of the key designer.)

    I actually started developing the CSB idea before I heard of Kickstarter, but it was clear to me from the beginning that accountability needs to be backed deeply into the system. I'm certainly NOT saying that project planning is easy, but I do think it is essential, and most of the programmers I've worked with (including many excellent ones) are not planners.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  46. It shouldn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF are you even talking about?! Subsidizing open source projects defeats the whole purpose of open source! Morons.

  47. Lots of options -- basic income as a start by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Coincidentally I posted some ideas just the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/i...

    =====

    We could have a Basic Income for all so that anyone who wanted to create FOSS could without having to take a paying job. The basic income would also recognize all the contributions to society many people make which they are not compensated for (e.g. caring for sick relatives instead of sending them to nursing homes).

    Or we could have better 3D printers, gardening robots, materials extractors, portable recycling equipment, and printable solar panels so that programmers making FOSS would not need to engage with the exchange economy much.

    Or we could expand the gift economy (which FOSS is part of) to more of the material world (e.g. Freecycle).

    Or the US government could repeal most drug laws and convert freed-up prisons into places where FOSS programmers or others who wanted to make free public digital works could hang out and get free room and board and so on (or maybe build nicer accommodations to the same goals).

    Or the filing or holding of non-freely-licensed copyrights by non-profits (e.g. most universities who already employ a lot of people to do programming) could be determined to be "self-dealing" by Congress or maybe just the IRS:
    https://pdfernhout.net/open-le...
    "Foundations, other grantmaking agencies handling public tax-exempt dollars, and charitable donors need to consider the implications for their grantmaking or donation policies if they use a now obsolete charitable model of subsidizing proprietary publishing and proprietary research. In order to improve the effectiveness and collaborativeness of the non-profit sector overall, it is suggested these grantmaking organizations and donors move to requiring grantees to make any resulting copyrighted digital materials freely available on the internet, including free licenses granting the right for others to make and redistribute new derivative works without further permission. It is also suggested patents resulting from charitably subsidized research research also be made freely available for general use. The alternative of allowing charitable dollars to result in proprietary copyrights and proprietary patents is corrupting the non-profit sector as it results in a conflict of interest between a non-profit's primary mission of helping humanity through freely sharing knowledge (made possible at little cost by the internet) and a desire to maximize short term revenues through charging licensing fees for access to patents and copyrights. In essence, with the change of publishing and communication economics made possible by the wide spread use of the internet, tax-exempt non-profits have become, perhaps unwittingly, caught up in a new form of "self-dealing", and it is up to donors and grantmakers (and eventually lawmakers) to prevent this by requiring free licensing of results as a condition of their grants and donations."

    Or in the absence of such a legal ruling, foundations and other donors could require grantees to sign a pledge to only create free and open source works:
    "Pledge to only fund and create free software and free content"
    https://pdfernhout.net/pledge-...

    Or programmers could keep creating FOSS in their spare time both for its own sake and in the hopes the growing quantitative mass of FOSS eventually leads to a qualitative shift towards a post-scarcity society.

    =====

    Or something I posted around 2004:

    "How to Find the Financing for Achieving the Star Trek Society"
    https://www.kurtz-fernhout.com...
    "This essay shows how a total of $14000 billion up front and at least another $2085 billion per year can be made available for creative investment in the USA

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  48. Re: Free is free. NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well what is free in this context then? Because what is so often termed "Free Software" comes with restrictions that are backed by copyright legislation, in fact if copyright went away all of that so-called "Free Software" would become truly free and without restriction. The various licenses just arbitrarily draw a line at a set of restrictions and say "that's freedom", some are more restrictive and some are less restrictive.

    Terming it "Free Software" was always moronic, prefixing something that is generally accepted to have a monetary cost is with "Free" is obviously going to mean to most people that it is without monetary cost. When it has always needed to be stated that it's "Free as in Freedom" it's pretty obvious it should be called something like "FSF Freedom Software" (whatever you mean by freedom because it most certainly is not free of restriction otherwise it wouldn't be backed by the penalties imposed under copyright law) instead.

  49. Re: Free is free. NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > in fact if copyright went away all of that so-called "Free Software" would become truly free and without restriction.

    No, sorry again, it would not. That is one of the most basic mistakes.

    "The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance." http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2011/01/eternal-vigilance-is-price-of-liberty.html

    Freedom is somewhat fragile; if left in an inhospitable environment it will vanish like some sort rapid evaporating substance. It must be protected like a treasure, because unemcumbered things are easily plundered by those who either have easy profit interests or those who hate Freedom and would like to "extinguish" it.

    The GPL is essential for continued Freedom of everyone's work; copylefted material is freer than e.g. public-domain things.

  50. Re: Free is free. NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong. Freedom means free of restriction. Creating a non-free derived work does not take away anybody's freedom nor does it take away the initial free work and if what you say were true then there would be no permissively-licensed free software at all. So you're wrong both in theory and, demonstrably, in practise.

    Nothing is lost and nothing is gained, but apologists of the RIAA/MPAA logic tend to oppose that view.

  51. These companies sell Moodle support by tepples · · Score: 1

    Your agency could have bought expert support for Moodle from a U.S. support partner.

  52. HTTPS allows client-side caching by tepples · · Score: 1

    In the case of http caching, HSTS, cert pinning, etc all BROKE caching.

    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Nothing related to HTTPS affects client-side caching in any way. Besides, Chrome phased out key pinning by version 67 anyway in favor of Certificate Transparency because it was too easy for someone to exploit a misissued certificate for hostile pinning (source).

    HTTPS breaks only intermediate caching by intercepting proxies. There are cases where operators of intercepting proxies have (ab)used their position to insert advertisements into documents that a user is viewing, Comcast being among them. If a user does want to opt into use of a proxy, web browsers still allow installation of a proxy's private root certificate.

  53. Could have. Cost more, contribute less by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I started to mention that program. The official partners are listed on the Moodle page, can use Moodle trademarks, and send a portion (10%?) of sales back to Moodle HQ. That's a good program.

    Because they had (needed) a Moodle developer in-house, third-party support wasn't what they needed. They explicitly did not want to slowly become dependent on a vendor. Buying support through an authorized vendor would have cost them more than paying $500/year, and Moodle HQ would only get 10% of it or so.

    That said, my employer DID make contributions to Moodle which were useful for other users, by paying me to do so. I championed making sure we could publicly distribute our module and contributions, arguing that by doing so the community would help maintain OUR code, rather than us having to update our patches and modules for new versions of Moodle. My employer agreed to allow me to post code as long as it wasn't specific to our organization or contain any trade secrets, "general use" code I could distribute. I made sure that all of my code was general enough for other people to use, and for us to use in a new way next year.

  54. Re: Free is free. NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Freedom means free of restriction.

    What Freedom do you have when a tyrant is free of any restriction?

    Because that is exactly what will happen to the FreeBSDs and family. And you may argue, it's OK, that's how it was meant to be.

    And I say, it's all wondrous to have maximum Freedom for 5 minutes, but I'd rather have the means to protect the most Freedom I can enjoy. That means everyone can be free to do anything they want -- except taking other people's Freedom.

    And that's what you are defending -- the Freedom for every conglomerate, from Microsoft to Apple, to come and take possession of what was developed at late hours, sometimes by unemployed folks, or by intelligent people who -- for whatever reason -- are excluded from getting a shining position in a big corp.

    That because you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge we must protect what belongs to everyone. (s) Of course, with the best of intentions. (/s)