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Feds Ran a Bitcoin-Laundering Sting For Over a Year (theverge.com)

More than 40 alleged dark-web drug dealers have been arrested as part of a sweeping federal effort by the Department of Justice as "the first national undercover operation targeting dark net vendors." The Verge reports: The core of the operation was an online money-laundering business seized by agents from Homeland Security Investigations and operated as a sting for over a year. By offering cash for bitcoin, HSI agents were able to identify specific drug dealers, ultimately tracing more than $20 million in drug-linked cryptocurrency transactions. The hijacked money-laundering service was offered across a number of different marketplaces, with agents claiming at least some presence on AlphaBay, Dream Market, Wall Street, and others.

So far, prosecutions have been launched across 19 states as a result of the operation, seizing more than $3.6 million in cash. The same raids seized large quantities of Schedule IV pharmaceuticals -- including 100,000 tramadol pills and over 24 kilograms of Xanax -- as is typical of trade on dark net markets. Agents also recovered more than 300 models of liquid synthetic opioids and roughly 100 grams of fentanyl. Further investigations are still ongoing.

97 comments

  1. The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's astounding how quickly the Bitcoin hype has disappeared. Last December it was all that we were hearing about. Then the value collapsed earlier this year, and now we hear almost nothing. It has gone back to being a niche novelty. Given how badly so many foolish people were burned by its most recent decline in value, it's more and more unlikely that a new and sufficiently large batch of fools will be found any time soon to allow for another overhauling of Bitcoin. To really put it in perspective, even NoSQL managed to retain its level of hype longer than Bitcoin did, and NoSQL was a much feebler and useless set of technologies.

    1. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I desperately wanted to short BitCoin last December when it was approaching $20k, but I couldn't find an appropriate mechanism for doing so.

    2. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given how badly so many foolish people were burned by its most recent decline

      It's been richly hilarious.

      "muh bitcoins are worth $300,000 bc im smart and got in early"

      "Show me the Ferrari."

      "lol u dont know what ur talking about"

      "So no Ferrari then?"

      "O GOD TEH MARKET, ALL MUH BITNOICNS"

    3. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      What was the trouble? They were for sale on CBOE.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Noob. Bitcoin has had several "hype" periods. Just like any market: sometimes it's steady. Sometimes it goes crazy high ("hype" I guess). And sometimes slumbers ("crash" I guess). Rinse, repeat. There is money to be made at any time. Right now it's still REDICOUSLY high compared to any previous time in its history. It's not even remotely close to a crash.

    5. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another big bitcoin scandal (or at least a random scandal with a vaguely plausible reference to bitcoin in the news headlines) is needed to drive the price back up. Otherwise, the only way to cash out is to uncompute it back into electricity and sell to the grid.

    6. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Available for shorting? I wasn't aware. I did do some searching, but couldn't find a place where it seemed to be a possibility.

    7. Re: The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound panicked, and desperate for a sucker to come take the bag from you.

    8. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      If people would stop using Bitcoin as an imaginary digital investment, it would actually make a decent medium of exchange now that mechanisms for securely faster transactions are being developed. A mature cryptocurrency would be one whose value didn't keep fluctuating wildly week by week.

    9. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh look how rich we are with imaginary money. I'm a millionaire, all I need is someone to buy these magic beans from me and I'll show you.

    10. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smart rich people don't sink money into Ferraris.

    11. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "A mature cryptocurrency would be one whose value didn't keep fluctuating wildly week by week."

      But then, how a constant-rate/constant volume currency can cope with demand fluctuations?

    12. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They weren't burnt by "Bitcoin".
      They were burnt by their own dumb asses not doing their own research deeply into the investment side.
      Cryptocurrency IS a new greenfield application rising wider around the world.
      It is NOT controlled by government fiat manipulation.
      It is therefore subject to ALL market forces, both natural AND manufactured.
      It is thus both NORMAL and FULLY EXPECTED to be HIGHLY VOLATILE until things stabilize under full adoption many many years out.
      As a consumer you can just buy, spend, hold spare change... all in meaningfully short timeframes and not have much up or down to worry about.
      As an INVESTOR... you have to know how to roll with the inherent early days volatility, if not, you will lose.
      And it's your own damn fault, NO ONE else's.
      The people who lost did simply not do their homework on the fundamentals.
      End of story.

    13. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cryptocurrency is a great medium of exchange, especially when taken within the inherent volatility timescales of relavance. In time those dynamics will smooth out to be essentially steady forex graphs with Euro, Dollar, Yuan, etc.
      It is NOT imaginary, it is very REAL, and MUCH more transparent in mechanics, issuance, mathematics, etc than ANY fiat in the world.
      Even as an investment, until forex stabilizes, it works very well... you just have to know what it is, and what you're doing.
      Most people do not, so they lose, and come whining here about it looking for their mommies, and their favorite nanny state.
      That's not what cryptocurrency is about.

    14. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's it. You could buy a large house with your millions in bitcoin but you choose to live in your parents basement. Sure.

    15. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Week by week... LOL.

      Cryptocurrency is NEW UPON THE WORLD... a NEW currency... and completely unregulated by design... get it????
      That means that it WILL have MAJOR VOLATILITY.... this is COMPLETELY NORMAL for such a thing.

      Do you SERIOUSLY BELIEVE that if say any country in the world goes tits up or gets invaded or whatever else as in history... that whatever NEW CURRENCY is instituted there in place of its OLD FAILED FIAT.... that it will be "stable" from day one forward?

      Are you fucking stupid?
      Of course it won't.
      NEITHER were the US DOLLAR, Mark, EURO, Yen... etc, etc when they first came out.

    16. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is NOT controlled by government fiat manipulation.

      Not in the way you are thinking about no, but governments have no problem regulating it.

      It is just another asset, deciding that it is something you need to declare for tax purposes is just a strike of a pen.

      "But they don't know that I have them." you might say.
      Sure, but that is true for a lot of things, including regular fiat money.

      If they find out that you have hidden away bitcoins you are as screwed as any other black market trader.
      If you are willing to take the risk you can just trade in cocaine instead. It is a much safe investment.

      The we have the whole issue with the bitcoins not having an intrinsic value. You can create a million different crypto currencies and the value of each and every one of them is only based on the perceived value.
      The bitcoin boom we saw recently is likely a result of the Magnitsky Act. That means that the bitcoin value is propped up by criminal activity creating a perceived demand.
      Once the feds starts to go after that money then the value will fall like a rock.

      Want to invest in something that doesn't have fiat value? Maybe go for copper or aluminum.

    17. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Yes, even a non-speculative cryptocurrency would be subject to the money supply problem, which is that the amount of any mined-out currency (cost of generating any more is ludicrously high in energy cost, like BTC) stays constant, while the sum of all the things it can be traded for keeps growing. This causes a steady fall in the amount of coin it takes to buy goods, which makes buying and holding the currency itself an irresistible deal. So although a stable crypto could be a viable medium of exchange in the short run, any money supply held constant is subject to rising in price in comparison to what it trades for.

      That is why every fiat currency is managed by a central bank that is supposed to monitor economic activity and gradually issue more money as the volume of traded goods increases. In the real world the currencies we buy and hold are determined by investors' perception of how good the judgement of the Federal Reserve is in comparison to, say, the Swiss National Bank.

      After all these years the best non-fiat 'currency' is still gold. It is not managed, yet all cultures understand its value and trade it freely, and the amount of it in existence slowly grows through mining at about two to three percent a year. This closely tracks the long-run increase in fungible goods, so although investors use it as a store of value at times when their economies are in trouble, its long-term value remains roughly the same.

    18. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure why you're modded down, though you did go on a bit about stuff like Dash Back which is more of a use case for crypto than a guide to sound crypto investing.

      Indeed, most major cryptocurrency projects have tokens worth a lot compared to early 2017. The great fear presently is that the Tether Ltd. scandal will take a big chunk out of current valuations. That being said, there's a good bit of fiat sitting on the sidelines waiting for the CFTC (and now DoJ) to complete their investigation. Those "in cash" are waiting like vultures to buy up depreciated crypto assets.

      While I wouldn't necessarily want to be a bagholder right now, the worthy projects that will command future investment in the post-CFTC/DoJ market will likely see a return to the Jan. 2018 highs sometime within the next 12-18 months. Maybe sooner, but I doubt it. Without scams like USDT priming the market, price moves will likely be more ponderous.

    19. Re: The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? He sounds more like a long-winded crypto investor that knows the value of patience.

    20. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The implied volatility of crypto makes the premiums for such contracts absurdly high.

    21. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you can short BTC on Poloniex.

    22. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "wah wah wah....i'm so narrow minded that all i can think about is the price of something!"

      i feel sorry for any PROGRAMMER who is not busy learning/programming the BLOCKCHAIN because it's the invention that is revolutionary.

      but hey, spend time trashing bitcoin because it makes you feel good.

      i'll be busy changing the world.

    23. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      You could have simply purchased futures.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    24. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Word Brother.

      Though I dont like Dash because it's not a true privacy coin.
      A cryptocurrency without privacy defense is not a cryptocurrency that can fulfill the promise of the libertarian anarchistic philosophy from which cryptocurrency itself arose from and the battles it was created to win.

      Godspeed NH and all other such growing enclaves throughout the world.
      It's time.

    25. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While certain stupid parts and peoples of the world that feel compelled like sheep to wait until their masters tell them they can use and invest in crypto... will do exactly that... WAIT.

      NEVER FORGET that you DO NOT NEED their permission to do so right now today.

      THAT is the beauty of real cryptocurrencies... decentralized and unstoppable.

      So go learn about cryptocurrency.
      Find a seller in your local area and buy some.
      Start offering to accept cryptocurrency for your goods and services.
      Start offering to pay cryptocurrency to others for their goods and services.
      Start introducing others to the philosophies from which cryptocurrency all started.
      Show them how to set up wallets on their devices, give them a little crypto and show them how to use it.

      You'll soon realize how beautiful it is :)

    26. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you lop off the unnatural peak of the last crazy spikes, you'll find an underlying steady growth rate in both price (which is easy just look at multi year charts) and adoption (this analysis of worldwide acceptance in commerce and p2p is harder to grasp).

      As far as the price goes... $8k lops off the entire crazy spike... and somewhere between $3-4k and $8k seems the natural base today given worldwide adoption analysis.

      Given both the future potential, the current environment and usage, and the multiple bounces off $6k combined with the $3k and $4k valuations... I'd feel anywhere in that range is a good investment point for the long term, multi cryptocurrency, investor.

      https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg730zig6-hourztgSzm1g10zm2g25

      And for those wishing to simply use cryptocurrency, so long as your transaction window is reasonably short, it's a fine way to pay for things.

      The best bet is to blend your schemes.... invest some for the long haul, take profits, shift coins as needed on an annual to six month basis, spend and replace, etc.

    27. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Decentralized, Unstoppable, Anonymous, Cryptocurrency... as now beginning to be implemented in true Privacy Coins (somewhat represented by BTCP, ZEC, ZEN, ZCL, even XMR) allow you to completely ignore whatever "Government" says.

      Cryptocurrency is a P2P end run around all such bullshit.

      And it's working as promised :)

    28. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      the libertarian anarchistic philosophy

      Libertarianism and Anarchism are two quite different things. Conflating them is just a way to make the reactionary ideas behind Libertarianism sound hip.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    29. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Smart rich people don't sink money into Ferraris.

      If you're actually rich, then the difference in price of a few hundred thousand dollars between a Ferrari and a Fiat Panda is irrelevant.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    30. Re:The Bitcoin hype has dried up already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hell are you talking about? BTC is worth 600% what it was at this time last year.

  2. Don't worry, they won't get Trump on this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Treason and everything else, sure. But not this, lol.

    1. Re:Don't worry, they won't get Trump on this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump will be escorted directly from the White House, to Joint Base Andrews and from there to Sherman Army Airfield near Leavenworth, KS. From there he will be transferred under heavy FBI armed guard to Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary where he will be housed permanently in isolation for collusion with a foreign government and violation of the emoluments clause. Depending on what Mueller turns up, it could even be Treason and Pence may be along for the ride.

    2. Re:Don't worry, they won't get Trump on this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ponce is going too for sure.

  3. War on drugs is useless by mspohr · · Score: 0, Troll

    All it does is put hard working people in jail.
    Time to put Wall Street in jail.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    1. Re:War on drugs is useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Da, war on drugs useless like bear on motorcycle

    2. Re:War on drugs is useless by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      The stock market is a great way to earn a lot of money. Invest in an S&P 500 tracking fund, leave it there for MANY MANY years, and you'll likely have much more in the end.

      Anyone who isn't investing in the stock market is missing out.

    3. Re:War on drugs is useless by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Think of the contractor overtime at the NSA and GCHQ collecting on all cryptocurrency changes. Every move from cash to cryptocurrency. All use of cryptocurrency.
      The move from cryptocurrency back to cash. The where and when. With a hidden FBI camera on a pole over looking the digital "transactions".

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re: War on drugs is useless by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I was referring to the manipulaters and scam artists who have taken over Wall Street.
      You're right. Invest in an index fund and ignore the manipulaters.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    5. Re:War on drugs is useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      While that is historically true, particularly since end of WWII...
      The real estate banking WQ game since 2008, and the change in world dynamics, has changed the game.
      The US is no longer an assured thing.
      S&P is primarily US based.
      It will rise or tank with the US.

      Only global agnostic funds will prevail now.

    6. Re:War on drugs is useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only effective war against drugs is to kill all users and dealers. Duterte has it half-right I guess.

      Addiction wins out otherwise.

  4. Was wondering when this was going to happen by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Crypto currencies base value is almost entirely on drugs, money laundering and ransomware payments. Legitimate businesses like Steam got out of it when it got to volatile to consider a currency.

    Legalize Marijuana and I suspect you'll see the bottom fall out of Crypto currencies. Heck, legalize all drugs and treat the hard ones (cocaine & heroine) like the medical conditions that they are and that's basically that.

    I can't say I'd be sad to see them go. It's a tremendous waste of electricity for not much in return. You're not going to get freedom from Government & Corporation backed fiat currencies out of it. If it ever came to that they'd just move in and take over. Heck, by all accounts Bitcoin's price has been manipulated by a bunch of folks out of China for the last year or two. Meanwhile it's nice to see GPU prices slowly coming back to Earth.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The NSA follows the math on every payment.
      The FBI waits at the payment and product end.
      The DEA follows all the product.
      The IRS is ready for any strange cash/banking movements.

      The question is then who told everyone to "trust" computers and a payment method the NSA/FBI could track in real time?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re: Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ISIS has claimed responsibility for all of it. That's why Motherland Security is doing this instead of the DEA. Now lets go bomb those Islamic drug dealing cartel gangs. Woohoo! Security!

    3. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So glad I was always too paranoid for Bitcoin! Only the paranoid survive!

    4. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Actually based on some charts, news announcements and government policy (in China) I suspect a good portion of it, was used to funnel money out in to the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand property markets.

      China has continued to crack down on the currency, to a point it's difficult to hide laundering money into a 4 bedroom AAA quality property in downtown Vancouver. This has impacted housing in Vancouver (as well as the recent tax policies in that location) as well as the price of bitcoin.

      I will say, I can't see it hitting 20k again, any time soon.

    5. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FALSE.

      "Bitcoin Core Blockstream Lightning BTC" was taken over from the inside by corporate assholes for profit.
      BTC is no longer the cryptocurrency it once was.
      "Bitcoin Cash BCH" has taken over that function, for the time being.
      Expect perhaps even that to shift.
      That is COMPLETELY NORMAL function of decentralized cryptocurrencies.

      BTC was made useless to both end users and companies due to the fuckery of the assholes who took it over.
      Specifically through REFUSING to increase the tx/sec, thereby forcing tx fees to rise.
      BTC fees became economically unviable to send less than say $500.
      THAT is why businesses got out of it.
      NOT because BTC was naturally volatile as any cryptocurrency will be for the next decade.
      In fact, the businesses payment processors INSULATED the biz's from the volatility by settling back into fiat for them on the backside, guaranteeing the biz the fiat value as of the exact time of customer purchase.
      Furthermore, "lightning" is effectively a NEW asshole controlled coin.
      Those two conditions in BTC will remain forever unless the assholes are thrown out, but since BCH is now here, there is no reason to do that, simply exchange all yout BTC for BCH and let BTC die.

      FALSE again.
      Government and Corporation and bank backed FIAT use FAR FAR MORE electricity for all their buildings, computers, employees, vehicles, etc, etc... than the simplicity of cryptocurrencies ever will.

    6. Re: Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right now it cost average fee of $0.20 TO make a btc tx...
      Btc cash is bullshit.

    7. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Crypto currencies base value is almost entirely on drugs, money laundering and ransomware payments.

      As someone who has used crypto since 2013 I will have to remind you that you forgot that the value is also dependent on people manipulating the market by artificially increasing the price by doing pumps and dumps.

    8. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Crypto currencies base value is almost entirely on drugs, money laundering and ransomware payments.

      Errr no, not even remotely. Crypto currencies' base value is almost entirely speculation, financial fuckery, and idiots investing in dodgy exchanges.

      The only thing real that cryptocurrencies are pegged against is ransomware which don't change depending on the bitcoin / dollar value. Drugs and money laundering on the other hand are pegged against the dollar and the bitcoin transactions make up a small amount of that so they have borderline no influence at all. If drugs and money laundering were the basis for bitcoin the price would be far more stable.

      You can see that clearly when bitcoin's price barely blips when a major drug site gets taken down, but spikes wildly when some idiot on wallstreet opens their mouth. Now we also have futures to speculate with further removing the value of some cryptocurrencies from anything tangible.

    9. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are actually retarded.

    10. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      You're correct if you very specifically limit your scope to the crazy volatility we've seen over the last year or so, but go earlier than that (particularly 2 or more years ago) and most of the transactions for bitcoin really were related to drugs, money laundering for organized crime and ransomware payments. Sure, some of parts of those customer groups have left for other crypto "currencies" as bitcoin has become crazy volatile, but now that the bottom has pretty much fallen out of the speculator market they are making up a larger and larger portion of all the transactions.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    11. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't aware that Ethereum had anything to do with drugs, money laundering, and ransomware payments. BTC maybe, but today it's more likely to be XMR. Idiots still using BTC are just going to get caught.

      Next you'll tell us that all crypto is the same, too?

    12. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think legalizing marijuana in one of the 200+ countries that accept Bitcoin is going to drastically affect the price of Bitcoin, you don't understand the scope of Bitcoin, and should refrain from expressing your uneducated opinion.

    13. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WRONG AGAIN.

      All Fiat are based on and pegged against nothing... nothing but promise of Murder exacted by their respective states... and nothing but endless inflationary money printing reducing buying power, further as means to redistribute wealth through various schemes from the masses up to the top... until the state collapses under its own madness. History of the world proves this without exception.

      Cryptocurrency, let's say purely mineable decentralized no point of control ones like BCH, BTCP, ZEN, Z* and similar privacy coins....

      These are "backed" solely and properly by their a) float outstanding combined with b) their transaction flux both leading to their c) price demand all enabled by d) YOU being involved in a decentralized supportive ecosystem fashion... aka: MATH... aka: ADOPTION aka: USE.

      So you have GUNPOINT, which has ALWAYS FAILED 100% THROUGHOUT HISTORY... ahem, where Rome, Brittania, etc, etc, etc.
      And MATHEMATICS, which has never failed.
      Hell, even FAITH of BELIEVING IN A CURRENCY has never failed to make it sound.
      That belief in government propaganda is why most fiats are able to last long beyond their innate uselessness... because sheeple are fucking stupid about what fiat does to keep them under the boot of others.

      Once you can treat a thing, cryptocurrency units, as a true rarity, not a fiat printable lol, then you begin to naturally assign it value in relation to all the other replicable things, goods and services, in the world.

      Cryptocurrency is beautiful, and every day that someone around the world has that epiphany is really a day to be happy for.

      BTW.... "Bitcoin BTC" has been taken over by corporate entities and conspiring elements known as Blockstream, Core, Lightning, etc. It's a shitcoin now.

      See for more...
      https://reddit.com/r/btc

      And whatever you do, DO NOT search "Larken Rose".

    14. Re: Was wondering when this was going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BTC ... he's right, you're wrong.

      Post-Takeover-BTC has imposed artificial limits to its usefulness... whenever again significant shift of global TX's enter BTC main chain again, TX fees will skyrocket, making it useless. BTC sidechan and lightning and whatever else.... are all effectively centralized and controlled shitcoins.

      At this point only a statist would claim BTC is valid as a truly decentralized and independant promising cryptocurrency.

      See:
      https://reddit.com/r/cryptocurrency
      https://reddit.com/r/btc

      ANYTHING but the completely censored
      https://reddit.com/r/bitcoin

    15. Re:Was wondering when this was going to happen by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      and most of the transactions for bitcoin really were related to drugs

      No. Most transactions for bitcoin where trading bitcoin for dollars. This happened many orders of magnitudes more than all other combined products including drugs. And while drugs did and still does make up a large portion of product related bitcoin purchases, the cost of the drugs is pegged against the dollar and floats against the bitcoin. They do NOT peg the the bitcoin to anything tangible, and the drug dealers would be incredibly stupid to do so.

  5. The war on drugs was declared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    because Nixon couldn't declare war on hippies.

    After getting marijuana legalized we really need to decriminalize possession of other drugs (possession is "punished" by treatment, only dealers face jail), and start looking into what else could be safely legalized.

    1. Re:The war on drugs was declared by fafalone · · Score: 1

      So basically your plan is to retain all the property crime to fund addictions at black market prices, all the gang violence, all the cartel violence, all the militarized police, all the civil rights violations, in exchange for what, exactly? Spending all that money incarcerating the supply chain instead of on more education, treatment, and prevention will still leave you with more abuse and addiction than a legal supply. (Legal != OTC so let's not start with that)
      Decriminalization isn't even a half-step, it's more like a tenth-step for people who *still* don't realize exactly why the War on Drugs is a failure. PS- Nixon ramped it up but prohibition as a drug control policy dates to 1914 and the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act.

    2. Re:The war on drugs was declared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Supply exists because of demand. If there's going to be an effective angle to stop illicit drug use then it really should be the users targeted more directly. Those dealers make a living because people buy. If they were selling something that no one wanted then they wouldn't make a living. Harsher penalties for use would mean fewer people willing to take that risk. Bonus: when the legal ramifications of supplying drugs are reduced there will be far more suppliers, so making a living as a drug dealer gets harder still.

      The war on drugs is being fought on the wrong front, it's the users who need targeting, not the suppliers.

      More unpopular opinions to follow.

  6. They hate bitcoin by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    If they could, they would get rid of bitcoin, just like the did to e-gold.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:They hate bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The socialists all hate crypto currencies because it takes away some of the power to steal from the masses.

      If you mean taxation then it does no such thing.

      Requiring that you declare your bitcoin transfers to IRS is as easy as requiring that you declare any other transaction.
      You can choose not to. For example I can't imagine many drug dealers tell IRS about their incomes.

      As shown by this article it isn't impossible for the government to find out that you are lying about your bitcoins.

      So bitcoins doesn't prevent taxation at all and if they wanted to they can still throw you in jail for tax evasion.

      The only thing that is different with bitcoins compared to other currencies is that you can't just print more of it.
      Every other perceived benefit is just a lie.
      You can however create as many crypto currencies as you like but we don't really know what impact it has on the bitcoin value.
      If creating another crypto currency makes people trade some bitcoins to get onto this new one and thereby causing the value of bitcoins to fall then bitcoins have all the properties of fiat currency.

    2. Re:They hate bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for your post.
      You are one of the few people who gets it.

      Larken Rose for the win.

  7. WTF Tramadol? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 0

    Tramadol is like Ibuprofen++. It is very hard on the liver and used by people that are in actual pain because you can't get high from them. What the actual fuck is the point of this?

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:WTF Tramadol? by E-Rock · · Score: 1

      I wonder if you can cut some other drug with it. Either that or junkies have figured out some way to make it fun.

    2. Re:WTF Tramadol? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      It's an addictive opioid that can cause hallucinations.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:WTF Tramadol? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IDK when you last tried taking tramadol but that shit gives a nice opioid high.

  8. FBI caused the Bitcoin surge by ghoul · · Score: 1

    I guess the rise in the bitcoin price in December was the US Govt buying Bitcoin for cash

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  9. Ohhh, that sounds like Rassah's alley! by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Please tell me one of the bigger 'bitcon' evangelists got caught up in this. Rassah is nothing but libertarian scum.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Ohhh, that sounds like Rassah's alley! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      In case anyone else didn't know who Rassah is (emphasis is mine)...

      Dmitry Murashchik, who goes under the name Rassah, runs Bitcoin 100, which exists to persuade existing charities to accept donations using virtual cash. In January last year, an anonymous donor gave Rassah's organization a donation worth about 180 BTC. At the time, this was worth about $2,600, but with the cryptocurrency's appreciation since then, it is worth approximately $150,000.

      With no way of tracking the money or the donor, Rassah had no choice but to accept it to help finance his fledgling non-profit, which offers charities a $1,000 prize if they begin accepting online donations using bitcoin.

      “We received a sizable donation of about 180BTC at around the same time as a few exchanges were hacked and robbed,” Rassah said in an email. “I suspect the money was stolen. Since there was nothing I could do to figure out where the money came from, we ended up keeping it.”

      Not only does he want to bribe charities to accept donations in BitCoin, he wants them to accept donations whose provenance he himself admits (a) cannot be shown to be legitimate and (b) is very likely directly connected to criminal activity. No charity with at least the good sense that God granted a goat is going to go for any of that.

      Not merely scum, but very stupid scum.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Ohhh, that sounds like Rassah's alley! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2
      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:Ohhh, that sounds like Rassah's alley! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "We'd like to give all this money away"

      "We cannot find enough charities"

      Yup, because nobody's touching that illicit faker-than-fiat money.

      This guy drives around in a Prius with the license plate BITCOIN, if you ever wanted to know. Easy enough to spot. See it, you know to avoid the whole area, because where he lies, plenty of other fraudsters are most likely gathered as well.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    4. Re:Ohhh, that sounds like Rassah's alley! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha... Libertarians.... I used to laugh at them, till I realized they were actually right, so now I am one :)

      For a few variations, and some good food for thought....

      See: https://lp.org/

      Search: "Larken Rose"

  10. Active pharmaceutical component by DrYak · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tramadol is like Ibuprofen++. {...} and used by people that are in actual pain

    The only thing in common between tramadol and ibuprofen is that they both releive pain and that's about it.

    Ibuporofen is a type of non-steroid anti inflammation drug (NSAID). Basically it's "aspirin++" with its own set of set-backs and advantages (it's hard on the stomach. Can also affect the kidneys)

    Tramadol is an opioid, it work on the same pain receptors as morphine and heroin, and has a different set of drawbacks that it share with these substance (risk of addiction. Causes often constipation and can cause urinary globe).

    - Because it's addictive, it's much more difficult to obtain a prescription. Some people in actual pain might resort to illegal channel to obtain what they need (whil avoiding a high doctor fee, eg.)

    - Because it's addictive, if it's not managed correctly, it can lead to addiction, and some people need to constantly get doses to avoid pain (either the people who got it from above, or people who didn't manage it correctly while prescribed by a doctor). They'll use illegal channel to keep fueling their addiction.

    - It's an opioid. Somebody is bound to find some dubious way to use it recreatively. They'll also use illegal channels to obtain it.

    The same kind of thinking can be also applied to the other drugs. Xanax contains alprazolam, a type of benzodiazepine - a class of drugs that is used as tranquilizers (against stress, to help sleep, etc.) which is also highly addictive.

    Overall, these aren't illegal drugs. They are perfectly normal pharmaceutical component, only very strictly regulated ones.

    To me, it looks like a sizeable chunk of the illegal drug market that US gov agencies are fighting isn't only druggies that want to get high (LSD, shrooms, etc.) but also people with medical condition that weren't managed properly and slowly devolved into an addiction.

    If the other side of the Atlantic pond didn't have such a joke of a healthcare and social welfare system, maybe lots of these addict would have been able to afford going to the doctor, would have had better managed problem and wouldn't be resorting to illegal channel and fueling the drug market.

    Yes, I know, we "evil-euro-communist"...

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Active pharmaceutical component by Hodr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was all ready to mark your comment insightful until the end when you claim socialized medicine somehow prevents opiod addiction from prescription meds.

      Here's a recent BBC article claiming the exact opposite, that the NHS is creating drug addicts.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-en...

      So go ahead, pretend this is an American only issue.

    2. Re:Active pharmaceutical component by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      I'm from "the Atlantic pond" and despite having public healthcare systems where patients pay nothing or next to nothing for (good) healthcare we still have issues, thou much lesser ones, with recreational use of addictive painkillers and tranquilizers.

      I have close family in the medical field so I'm pretty well aware of the situation over here and the main reason why we have much less opioid addiction is that we just don't give them out like doctors do in the U.S. One very important factor when a doctor determines what kind of painkiller to prescribe to a patient is the effect on their quality of life. Opioid-based painkillers are very effective, but they're also highly addictive so doctors need to weigh the additional pain relief against a potentially life-long addiction that can also escalate rather badly. The upshot of this is that opioid-based painkillers are only really used for extreme pain (like from life-threatening injuries) or to people suffering from terminal illness and this the effects of addiction won't last very long or have much time to go out of control.

      My dad, a doctor with over 30 years of experience as a general practitioner, put it like this: "If you're going to be dead from cancer within the next year or so, it doesn't really matter if you get addicted to your pain medication. However if you've still got decades of life left it's another story". He's also told me about how he and pretty much his whole profession are horrified with how in the U.S drug companies are allowed to advertise addictive prescription medication directly to consumers.

      Oh and before you blame our issues with recreational use of painkillers and tranquilizers, those very rarely start from patient self-medication. It's pretty much always completely recreational.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
  11. All cryptocurrencies and ICOs are scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are (any) fiat-currency and (any) cryptocurrency really equivalent, as cryptocurrency fans claim?
    For example, US Dollar and Bitcoin are really equals?
    Value/validity/authorization of US dollar is provided/guaranteed by US Government (and in-turn whole US Public)!
    Also, not to mention, US Dollars in any US Bank is insured by US Government!
    What authorization/guarantee/insurance is behind Bitcoin? Nothing!
    Sorry but that is the end of discussion then!

    Why do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is really hiding his identity, if Bitcoin is really such a great innovation?
    He is just someone does not like media/fan attention?
    Or, could it be really because Bitcoin (and all cryptocurrencies followed it) are actually Ponzi Schemes?
    (So he knew very well that law enforcement would come after him sooner or later?!)

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really good innovation, why they attract so many criminals/criminal activity?
    Could it really be because, all cryptocurrencies themselves are scams, and that is why they attract all kinds of criminals/criminal activity?

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really currency, why no company/store can use Bitcoin as currency anymore?
    Because the price of Bitcoin proved to be extremely unstable to use as a currency?
    Would the result be different, if Bitcoin replaced by any other "cryptocurrency"?
    Aren't all work the same way?

    If so-called cryptocurrencies are really money; isn't people issuing their own money, illegal already, in all countries?
    If so then, why they are still not banned in all countries?

    Or, they are not actually virtual currency but virtual investment?
    But, if they are actually investment, why we need/want them?
    What would happen to world economy, if people invested in virtual investments, instead of real investments?

    Or, all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually just a modified (made decentralized and paying variable interest) Ponzi Schemes?
    (Price of cryptocurrencies would keep increasing in the long term (by their design), so it is equivalent of paying variable interest to all long term investors.)

    Also, since all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually financial scams (Ponzi Schemes), that means, they cannot be the solution for any of existing financial problems of our world!

    As more and more people invest in cryptocurrencies, it will become harder and harder to ban their trading everywhere (because people invested in cryptocurrencies, would try to stop anyone trying to ban cryptocurrencies)!
    All cryptocurrencies need to be banned globally before it is too late!

    1. Re:All cryptocurrencies and ICOs are scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not many crypto projects aim to use their tokens as currency. Though if you want to look at a good one, take a look at DAI Stablecoin.

      USDT also claims to be "as good as" fiat, but we all know where that's going . . .

  12. Re: PONZI TULIPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL what? No. He didn't actually do the thing he was supposed to be doing. Converting the stamps to cash was impossible, they weren't available in the quantities required, and even transporting them in a profitable manner wasn't feasible. Someone fed you some bullshit.

  13. the problem here is the goverment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    legalize all this stuff (natural) and most of this stuff will go away but then this will never happens since government loves to have ultimate power what you/me actually could do

  14. No magic pixie dust by DrYak · · Score: 2

    you claim socialized medicine somehow prevents opiod addiction from prescription meds.
    So go ahead, pretend this is an American only issue.

    I think you might have missed the conditionals I've been using :

    maybe lots of these addict would have been able to afford going to the doctor, would have had better managed problem and wouldn't be resorting to illegal channel and fueling the drug market.

    Noticed ?

    I don't claim that socialized medicine is magic wand that you can wave away prescription meds addiction.

    I claim that is possible that maybe, by making medicine more affordable, some potential addicts will get their problem better treated, and this could help avoid these to try instead some botched forms of self-medication that turns into addictions.

    i.e.: some of the addict are actually patients that started with chronic pain problems, but couldn't afford to have them correctly handled by a professional. And by correctly, I mean considereing *All the options* to manage pain (see randomly quickly googled ref, still corresponds to the complexity I've learned in my studies). The problems is that all of these solution cost time and money.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-43304375

    From the exact same source (BBC) :
    - Why opioids are such an American problem. In addition to the title :

    When it comes to taking opioids, the United States has the dubious honour of leading the world.
    For every one million Americans, almost 50,000 doses of opioids are taken every day. That's four times the rate in the UK.

    and if you look about it, several of the listed problems boil down to "not enough resource in health care" (Pill being better re-imbursed than physiotherapy, US doctors earningn more money from kickbacks than salary, no ressource spent in proper pain-management training, etc.) though some are entirely cultural (population brainwashed by ads into "asking for {brand name} pill", unrealistic age-related expectations, online rating of doctors, ...)

    - 'Growing problem' of addiction to prescription drugs probed says :

    Public Health England is launching a review into the "growing problem" of prescription drug addiction. {...} PHE wants to avoid a situation like the one in the US, where there's been a massive increase in addiction to opioids.

    . (i.e.: BBC and PHE thinks that though UK has a problem, it isn't as bad as US).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  15. Oblig. SHUM by Plugh · · Score: 1

    There is a reason the darknet markets are rapidly moving away from Bitcoin and into Monero
    SHUM

    1. Re:Oblig. SHUM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Monero XMR is not true cryptographic privacy, it is statistical privacy.

      The true cryptographic privacy coins based on zero knowledge proofs,
      such as ZEC, ZCL, ZEN, BTCP, etc...

      Those are the true coming of real privacy coins.

      Monero, though better than BTC, was just a stopgap picked up on by drug addled idiots.

      The darknet markets will move to zero knowledge cryptographic privacy coins before long.

      As will the rest of the world, to selectable privacy versions of those, eventually as the tech and global knowledge of it incereases.

    2. Re:Oblig. SHUM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh AC, your ad-hominem attacks are so predictable. OpSec is what fails people. ZEC and related coins are not secure by default; this leads to innumerable attack vectors. Move 1.2345 ZEC from the clear chain into a private txn, and a few seconds later, 1.2345 ZEC gets moved into the clear chain from a private txn. It doesn't matter that the private txn was fully zero-knowledge encrypted; the txn sticks out like a sore thumb and is trivial to deanonymize.

    3. Re:Oblig. SHUM by yarbo · · Score: 1

      How would Monero help if a user continuously converted thousands from Monero into cash by mail per month using a DEA honeypot? Paying Monero for cash would still be sufficient to get a warrant and I don't see how anything would change for the vendors.

  16. What's the ROI from a taxpayer's perspective? by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

    How much did the gov't spend to recover that $3.6 cash? And they tracked $20 million in total transactions? That seems pretty light-weight. One US state had over $600 million in MJ sales the first year it was legalized. Ok, so they recovered some opioids and fentanyl, much to dismay of Trump supporters, but damn, guys. Show me the cocaine.

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  17. It was pushing $5k before the speculators got in by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    and it's only around $6k now. Yeah, some of that value is speculators, but nowhere near all of it.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  18. Re:It was pushing $5k before the speculators got i by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    and it's only around $6k now. Yeah, some of that value is speculators, but nowhere near all of it.

    Don't be silly. People have been speculating against bitcoin since you could get it for a dollar. Just because the crazy stupid price spike in the past year was entirely wallstreet doesn't change the fact that bitcoin's value is not pegged against any product and that trading from and to currencies is and always has been several orders of magnitude higher than any movement between accounts or in exchange for products.