Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Have You Ever 'Ghosted' an Employer? (linkedin.com)
"Suddenly, calls and texts went unreturned," writes LinkedIn's editor at large, describing a recruiter who suddenly discovered the candidate she'd wanted to hire failed to respond to 12 messages, including emails like "Please let me know that you have not been kidnapped by aliens. I'm worried about you," and even a snail-mailed greeting card. Recruiters complain that prospective employees are now borrowing a practice from dating -- and "ghosting" recruiters and employers to let them know that they're not interested.
"Candidates agree to job interviews and fail to show up, never saying more. Some accept jobs, only to not appear for the first day of work, no reason given, of course. Instead of formally quitting, enduring a potentially awkward conversation with a manager, some employees leave and never return. Bosses realize they've quit only after a series of unsuccessful attempts to reach them.... Meredith Jones, an Indianapolis-based director of human resources for a national restaurant operator, now overbooks interviews, knowing up to 50 percent of candidates for entry-level roles likely won't show up."
Long-time Slashdot reader NormalVisual writes, "It'd be interesting to hear Slashdotters' experience with this." Have you ever ghosted a potential employer, or perhaps more relevant, have you ever been ghosted by a potential employer during the hiring process? Do you feel it's unprofessional, or simple justice for the behavior of some companies when the balance of power was more on their side?
Inc. magazine blames the low unemployment rate and "the effects technology have had on the communication style of younger generations." But leave your own thoughts in the comments.
Does ghosting show a lack of professionalism, or is it simple payback for the way corporations treated job-seekers in the past? And have you ever "ghosted" an employer?
"Candidates agree to job interviews and fail to show up, never saying more. Some accept jobs, only to not appear for the first day of work, no reason given, of course. Instead of formally quitting, enduring a potentially awkward conversation with a manager, some employees leave and never return. Bosses realize they've quit only after a series of unsuccessful attempts to reach them.... Meredith Jones, an Indianapolis-based director of human resources for a national restaurant operator, now overbooks interviews, knowing up to 50 percent of candidates for entry-level roles likely won't show up."
Long-time Slashdot reader NormalVisual writes, "It'd be interesting to hear Slashdotters' experience with this." Have you ever ghosted a potential employer, or perhaps more relevant, have you ever been ghosted by a potential employer during the hiring process? Do you feel it's unprofessional, or simple justice for the behavior of some companies when the balance of power was more on their side?
Inc. magazine blames the low unemployment rate and "the effects technology have had on the communication style of younger generations." But leave your own thoughts in the comments.
Does ghosting show a lack of professionalism, or is it simple payback for the way corporations treated job-seekers in the past? And have you ever "ghosted" an employer?
Sure, it would 'get around' if you live in South Fuck, Minnesota. Here in the big city, corporations don't call each other and say 'Here's a list of the employees that did us wrong, watch out for them!' Receuiters are a dime a dozen, and they're as notorious for ghosting on clients, recruiting for non-existent jobs, and pulling all kinds of shennanigans. Few will have sympathy for the recruiters or employers. Everyone is an asshole these days, and the moral high ground remains vacant.
How come when a corporation treats a single person like shit it is "a standard part of free market" and when a single person treats a corporation like this it is "unprofessional"?
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Respect and professionalism go both ways. Many businesses that rely on skilled professionals forgot this during the recession, and now that most of the desperation has settled back into baseline disgruntlement, they're in a bad fuckin' way.
The trend for the last decade and a half has been for employers, potential or actual, to disregard common courtesy to employees, potential or actual - even in what would be considered "professional" positions. Let's take a look at what the average person's job search looks like these days:
- A couple weeks or months of having to eat piles of shit in the process of submitting resumes by having to deal with the subcontracted, third-party resume ingestion services that everyone uses now. If you haven't yet had the pleasure of spending an 8 hour day getting your resume submitted to 10 or 12 total positions, you cannot begin to understand how much you begin to absolutely loathe every living being after doing this for weeks.
- Getting calls upon calls from (quick, call me a racist) Indian headhunters or HR drones whose job is to get you just far enough along that they can credibly reject you so they can put a fig leaf over the H1B they're going to hire anyway
- Never, ever getting anything more than a form email that explains absolutely nothing about why you were rejected for the position that you spent an hour tailoring a resume for because it looks like an ideal fit and you actually meet all of the inflated requirements
- Delay upon delay upon delay. Even if you get accepted, it might take them weeks to get around to finalizing your employment. If something comparable or better comes up in the mean time that will get you actually started sooner, who wouldn't take it?
Employers who actually have recurring problems with getting ghosted by recruits need to take a serious look at what they're doing wrong. Hint: It's probably acting like royalty and not paying wages that seriously motivate.
From Personal Experience, I had an interview arranged by a Recruiter with an Engineering Company. However, it became apparent very quickly that the recruiter was incredibly dishonest.
After going to the interview, I was informed by the Recruiter that the Company in question wanted to make an offer in person and he quoted a very generous salary. When I went to the Company in person again, the contract they showed was a signifcantly lower salary! I did raise this with my Interviewer who said they hadn't agreed a Salary with the recruiter.
I had decided then that I did not want the Job and informed the Recruiter that I was declining the offer. However, he was adamant to try and get me to accept it in comically rediculous ways by telling me that the role was upgraded to a Project Manager role! I still told him directly that I declined the offer and decided that I would 'ghost' all Phone Calls from this crook.
About 1.5 Weeks later, I was getting texts from the Engineering Company in question asking for me to give them a call back. I did and was greeted with "Whats Going on! The Recruitment Consultant said he was unable to get in touch with you" to which I responded by telling him that I told the Consultant that I declined the offer over a week ago. This turned out to be news to him as he was never informed by the Recruiter about this.
Its hard to sympathize with Recruiters who post crappy articles on Linkedin about how great they are or Candidates are ghosting them when they take this piss like this!
What company do you employ and what "authority" do you have?
Without divulging much, I can say this: -
I run a transport company - used to; to be strict as I am not that deeply involved now. Trust me, with our drivers, you are better off dealing with ``foreign brought up`` , but legally working American employees.
I can almost guarantee that in about a decade and a half, you will be seeing what I am seeing now. And yes, I [still] have influence in the affairs of this company.
Exactly. He prefers recent (or undocumented) immigrants because they are cheap and will put up with a lot of his BS (his "authority"). This is very common in the trucking industry.
Non-responsiveness on the part of HR/recruiters isn't just common - after a while, I just assumed it was 'standard practice'.
I don't expect a detailed response from every resume I send in, but I do expect a response if I have gone thru an interview, especially if it included someone from the executive suite. It can be demoralizing to meet with a hiring manager and their boss (maybe a VP), have it go well (smiles all around), then radio silence. At least have the courtesy of an email stating 'We appreciate the time and energy you put into the process, but...'.
I have to agree with the other posters that the recruiters created the environment in which this developed.
Having said all that, I cannot condone an employee accepting a position, filling out some forms, then not showing up to the first day of work. That borders on a sort of fraud or breech: if you went thru the process of filling out onboarding docs, there is a very strongly implied and expressed intent, by both parties, to commit to each other. But then, I suppose some people don't show to their own weddings...
It boils down to standards of behavior - for all aspects of life. And respect. If we develop a society that says that a free-wheeling economy where anything goes is the norm, how to you expect job-seekers *not* to be influenced by that?
A few articles back I read about the huge burn-out problem in the US. That makes for a pretty good explanation. If you're burned out, your mind has pretty much shut down higher reasoning. Recovery usually takes months, so a vacation won't cut it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people just go " ah, fuck it". Combine it with depression or other mental illnesses and you have somebody sitting in a true hellhole. One more reason for companies to actually give a shit about their employees. Here in the Netherlands the employer is also responsible for mental well-being. That's growing in the U.S. and other 1st world countries, but not nearly enough.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it well worth the effort.
2 different stories.
1) I took a contract position, 6 months. At this place, the guy responsible for ensuring contracts were renewed was a flake. 1st time, I asked the day my contract ended and he didn't know anything about it. I said, no contract, no work. Left at the end of the day. Monday rolled around and I didn't show up. He was panicked, working to get the extension pushed through, but it would be 2-3 more days. ... we need you today." he said. "I"m across the country, skiing, can't be back until the following Monday." I said. That happened 3 more times over the 9 yrs I worked there.
6 months later, I didn't mention the contract was expiring and planned a week vacation without telling anyone. Skiing. Contract expired on Friday and I flew off to SLC for a week of epic skiing. Monday morning, got a cell phone call asking where I was. "Contract ended Friday", I said. "Oh
The last time, they decided that a contractor should be an employee if they worked there more than 2 yrs. Smart, but not for me. My contract ended in early November, so I planned to travel about 6 months in Asia after the Holidays spent with family in different states. I didn't mention this to anyone at work. 3 days prior to the contract end, the boss texts that he'd gotten the "employee paperwork" approved so I could switch over on Monday. That was the first I'd heard about that idea. I didn't want to be an employee. They'd asked a few times over the years, but I always turned them down. I said no thanks and wished him luck. Turned out that 80% of the people in my group who were contractors had decided the same thing. He was desperate.
2) Interviewed for a position at a major DoD company where I'd fill 2 positions they had opened due to my skills. It was clear that I was a perfect fit, because I'd already had a clearance and my degree would directly support flight testing of a new aircraft (deployed now and kicking ass). Nobody I spoke with was qualified to interview me on anything technical. This was quickly known. I'd loose more knowledge in computing if I worked there than I ever gained.
The boss finally came in and told me all the ways I'd be fired for about 10 minutes. He was an old, gruff, ex-military type, who felt he needed to control start, lunch, end times. 5 minutes late 3 times would mean I was fired. No thanks.
I left the interview and never contacted them again. A week later, the boss called asking where I was on the job. I told him I'd accepted a position at a less hostile workplace where they respected employees. His response,"oh."
Poor communications, in both directions, is where the failure happens. At hiring time, the prospective employees have all the power. It is the last time any employee has much real power, often.
When I did hiring, I was looking for a "good fit" for both sides. We needed smart people who would be able to fit into the culture and do great work. If the applicant doesn't like us, they won't enjoy work, which is bad too. 2-way street. We were pretty relaxed, but about 3 days a month, we'd have customers and needed to dress up a little more and keep the spitballs to a minimum. It was a software development house.
It's a bit silly, because the company can say something very generic, like "position was already filled" or "candidate did not meet the positions technical requirements". As long as there's any objective basis, there's no good grounds for a lawsuit (e.g., if the company claims the candidates code during the interview wasn't good enough, how could you prove that they actually thought it was good enough).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.