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Nissan Workers In Japan Falsified Emissions Tests, Review Says (nytimes.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the data-faking dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: Nissan Motor has become the latest Japanese automaker to admit to falsifying product-quality data (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source), dealing a further blow to Japan Inc.'s reputation for dependable quality. An internal review of emissions and fuel economy tests at Nissan's production plants in Japan showed that company inspectors used "altered measurement values" on emissions inspection reports, the company said in a statement on Monday. The tests also "deviated from the prescribed testing environment," it said.

The review found that all models complied with Japanese safety and emissions standards, it said. The exception was the Nissan GT-R, a two-door sports car, which the company produces too few of to comprehensively review its record, said Nick Maxfield, a Nissan spokesman, in an email. The company said the falsification problems ultimately did not affect fuel-economy findings. Nissan said that it had already started investigating the falsifications and that it had retained a Japanese law firm, Nishimura & Asahi, to lead the effort. The investigation is likely to take one month, Mr. Maxfield said. "Nissan understands and regrets the concern and inconvenience caused to stakeholders," the company said in a statement.

88 comments

  1. Dependable Quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    " dealing a further blow to Japan Inc.'s reputation for dependable quality"

    Oh? Do falsified emission results have anything to do with whether the car will reliably start in the morning and get me to work? No? So that's bullshit.

    1. Re:Dependable Quality by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They won't have a direct effect; but do you think that a lesson in the ease and convenience of papering over engineering problems is going to do the rigor of various costly, but reliability critical, quality control measures any good?

      Quality control involves a lot of being willing to look rigorously at things that would be much less of a nuisance if you just let them slide long enough to be someone else's problem.

    2. Re:Dependable Quality by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      No, but the willingness to falsify data for whatever reason probably means a willingness to cut corners in order to look good on a quarterly review, i.e. a certain level of dishonesty.

      Nissan is generally regarded as inferior to the other more famous Japanese brands (Toyota and Honda) when it comes to reliability. And of course Volkswagen is hardly the poster boy for quality or reliability... at least not in modern times.

    3. Re:Dependable Quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nissan hasn't had a reputation for dependable quality since at least twenty years.

    4. Re: Dependable Quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is just about the GTR. Very low sales volume sports car. Pretty much non news item here.

  2. This why self driving cars need lot's of tests &am by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Maybe something like the FAA code audit that is done on autopilots.

    Also rules like
    software updates must be free for at least 5 years and free means that if say a bigger SD card / ssd / etc is needed then that part + install must be free.
    No roaming fees or data fees for forced updates.
    No forced onstar unless it's free for at least 5 years
    No forced XM for data unless it's free for at least 5 years

  3. HA HA HA by thundercattt · · Score: 1

    So do they get fined 1 Billion+ jail time like VW? Or sweot under the rug like GM

    1. Re:HA HA HA by gravewax · · Score: 4, Informative

      unlikely, The GT-R is a high end sports car with very low volume in sales. Even if they had falsified them to hide high emissions the fine would be tiny compared to VW. however it seems the cars are compliant, just the test were originally never done, still a big deal, just not a VW level big deal.

    2. Re:HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GM's ignition switch scandal caused human deaths 174 and they only got a $900M fine for it. If fines are anything to go by then human life is worth less than environmental damage.

    3. Re:HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So do they get fined 1 Billion+ jail time like VW? Or sweot under the rug like GM

      It was internal. Article is misleading.

    4. Re:HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Environmental Damage = human suffering, including deaths. Probably way more than 174 deaths.

    5. Re: HA HA HA by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Or hanged until the body ceases twitching, like Asahara-san. (Did anyone else know that Nippon has the death penalty??)

    6. Re:HA HA HA by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They had another issue last year where it turned out that the personnel doing safety checks were not qualified. It had been going on for years. Not malicious, just a cock-up where the wrong people were assigned to do the tests and no-one noticed.

      They had to re-test all affected vehicles because it was a safety issue.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had to re-test all affected vehicles because it was a safety issue.

      No they had to retest the vehicles as it was a certification issue. those doing the test had done a perfectly fine job, they just didn't have the certifications required for the signoff. Had they had incompetents doing it or people doing a bad job then that would have been a safety issue.

  4. NIssan fuel economy figures are fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On every car but my old (as in I no longer have it) Juke my driving style gave me 10-15% better fuel mileage figures than listed. On that Juke though, I consistently got 15-20% under the listed. Except once in a blue moon that something happened and the car actually ran like it was supposed to. Only happened 5 times in the five years I had it. I wonder if their cheat device had the testing date (month and date) programmed so that it will run within advertised parameters.

    1. Re:NIssan fuel economy figures are fake by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Funny

      I understand why you posted as AC.
      No one would publicly admit to owning a Nissan Juke.

    2. Re: NIssan fuel economy figures are fake by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      The Juke looks like a crosstrainer that was specifically designed to be marketed to lesbians with Down Syndrome.

  5. Seppuku is the only honorable way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To repent for such a heinous crime.

    1. Re:Seppuku is the only honorable way by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Some of my best knowledge comes from making mistakes. If everyone who makes a mistake is "removed", then nobody will have realistic experience.

      The Soviet Union kept removing generals for every failed battle at the beginning of WW2. But frequent replacement didn't work either. Eventually they ran out of sufficiently qualified new generals, so the existing ones began applying lessons from their prior failures. Their successes grew.

      I see no evidence management explicitly condoned such; it's more a matter of being inattentive to inspection quality procedures.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Seppuku is the only honorable way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you first.....

  6. Re: Russia falsified US election results. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dang if you had a nickle every time Donald popped up in your mind out of nowhere and made you angry enough to tell everyone on the internet you'd be a rich sonabitch.

  7. Re: Russia falsified US election results. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm still waiting for my nickels for every time you said Congress would repeal Obamacare after Trump finished finding his real Kenyan birth certificate.

     

  8. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Testing and peer review may also grammar problems :-)

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  9. Doesn't sound like much of a blow to me by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    sounds like they discovered the problem internally and that the people who did it only got away with it on a low selling sports car because nobody was checking their figures due to the low sales volume. Doesn't sound anything like what VW got caught doing. Time will tell I guess, since more might come out of this.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  10. Re:This is what happens when by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    Please clarify.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  11. Bullshit by mysidia · · Score: 1

    dealing a further blow to Japan Inc.'s reputation for dependable quality.

    Emissions tests to newer EPA standards such as CARB3 are not about product quality; they are about passing arbitrary regulations imposed upon them by a bureaucracy ---- the ever-evolving emissions standards actually COMPROMISE product quality from the customer's point of view, since the systems have to become ever more and more complicated to reduce emissions to arbitrary benchmarks, which means they are more prone to failures which cause them to stop working or become less efficient.

    Given a choice between a vehicle where the testing wasn't fudged BUT will perform more poorly and fail more frequently AND a vehicle where the testing was fudged BUT the performance and reliability are better.... the higher quality product is the latter. That's why the remark about "Blow to their reputation" is BS. This is more another blow to the reputation of the regulators, in my book.

    Of course the evolving government impositions are trending towards eventually mandating Zero emissions, which will essentially mean that all Combustion engines are going to be banned, and the most prone to failure equipment possible will be required to satisfy them: in other words, immature new technologies such as All-Electric or Alternative fuel.

    1. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lemme guess, you think the regulators should be auto industry execs.

    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the most prone to failure equipment possible will be required to satisfy them: in other words, immature new technologies such as All-Electric or Alternative fuel.

      You've never driven a Nissan Leaf, have you? Probably the most reliable daily commute vehicle on the planet at this point. Just don't plan long out-of-town trips with them thanks to the limitations of Li-ion batteries energy density.

      Yes ICE vehicles are proven fairly reliable for daily commute traffic, but don't kid yourself that there aren't much better alternatives.

    3. Re:Bullshit by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Of course the evolving government impositions are trending towards eventually mandating Zero emissions, which will essentially mean that all Combustion engines are going to be banned, and the most prone to failure equipment possible will be required to satisfy them: in other words, immature new technologies such as All-Electric or Alternative fuel.

      You were mostly right up until that last part. Yes, eventually you will have to replace the battery pack, which most EV owners consider to be a consumable in much the same way that gasoline and fuel filters are consumables on ICE cars. Other than the battery, though, in principle, there's very little reason why an electric car should not basically run forever.

      Whether you're talking about clogged carburetors, clogged injectors, worn piston rings, worn valve lifters, blown head gaskets, bent camshafts, leaking or bent valves, or any number of other interesting things that can go wrong mechanically with an ICE engine, there are simply a crazy number of parts that can wear out or fail, often catastrophically. With EVs, you have basically two or three bearings plus the rotor (which doesn't touch anything), and that's it other than a fixed gearbox, axles, differential, and wheels.

      So EVs should be far more reliable over the long term than any ICE design can possibly be, because there are typically about two orders of magnitude fewer moving parts. Even if you took away all the emissions control systems in the ICE design (which usually do not cause the cars to fail, unless you consider failing a smog test to be "failing"), this would still be true.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Bullshit by gravewax · · Score: 1

      woosh! you completely missed the point. regulations of emissions and quality of the work are unrelated items. meeting or missing a regulated target has no bearing on the quality of the work.

  12. fair treatment or back off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So now we watch whether Nissan get nailed to the wall as hard as VW, or is there a secret agenda here against Euro/German car makers? Still waiting on any action on US car makers who also faked results. Clue - ALL the manufacturers faked results to some degree or other. Only VW were targeted.

  13. So was it just the GTR? by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 2

    GTRs are more than sportscars, they are supercars. They are often supercars that beat other supercars 3 times their price. I have the feeling this fudge factor was keeping the costs down and performance up... not sure GTR owners are going to be upset. However, I prefer my manufacturers to keep it honest. Japanese culture is all about the environment... they'll take the small amount of heat from the press in Japan is my guess.

    1. Re:So was it just the GTR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Japanese culture is all about the environment...

      Yeppp. That's right. Look at em diligently sending their scientists out in whaling ships to make sure they scientifically research every environment-polluting bastard of a whale that they can get a harpoon into. Saving our oceans. That's very Japanese.

    2. Re:So was it just the GTR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a sportscar owner, I can tell you that the GTR-buying crowd don't care much for fuel economy, if at all. They want the largest horsepower output.

      There are some simple mods including removing all the emission control equipment and upping the turbo pressure that drastically improve power and lower emissions compliance. Many owners do it. Mind you, it is all relative, they are still better than most, if not all, types of trucks.

    3. Re:So was it just the GTR? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Well, the GT-R is already in the worst bracket for emissions anyway... Also the engines are hand made and signed by the person who built them, so I'd imagine they have been extensively tested and tuned anyway, before the final emissions test.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:So was it just the GTR? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Further more, this wasn't a cheat device like the VW/Audi saga. Emissions testing in Japan operates on the "honour system" as the Americans would say. So they rely on the manufacturers doing their own tests and reporting them. This is far from the first time a Japanese company has been caught slightly misrepresenting the numbers either. Emissions ratings in the US or Europe will still be determined by testing.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    5. Re:So was it just the GTR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nissan has also been fined in South Korea for using defeat devices.

    6. Re:So was it just the GTR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were fined but they heavily denied any wrong doing as the cars were operating as designed which was to shut off exhaust emissions controls at 95 degrees. SK argued it was a cheat simply because that was a lower temperature than what other vehicles do it at. their was no cheat device or cheat software.

  14. All your future is belong to electric vehicles by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Can't falsify emissions for that.

    Adapt. The world cares nothing for your excuses, as we return to conditions suitable only for dinosaurs, not for humans.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't falsify emissions for that.

      Go ahead and charge your car up off our nice, clean hydroelectric power. Never mind that the hydro base generation is 100% committed and the energy we incrementally add to the system is from gas turbines and coal.

    2. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by PPH · · Score: 1

      Your long tailpipe is making quite a racket as it drags on the pavement.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Can't falsify emissions for that.

      Go ahead and charge your car up off our nice, clean hydroelectric power. Never mind that the hydro base generation is 100% committed and the energy we incrementally add to the system is from gas turbines and coal.

      Dude, you are so 1980s. Since 2000 or so, you can buy green wind and solar power in literally every state in the Western US. All new construction in King County (WA) and California is required to have solar or low energy passive design.

      Wake up and smell the couple of decades ago, grandpa. We adapt, you pay high rates for fossil fuels.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Your long tailpipe is making quite a racket as it drags on the pavement.

      Pretty sure my work and my home are close and both served by wind and solar power. But continue with your 1980s view of how the world works, grandpa.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    5. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by LesFerg · · Score: 1

      You don't think consumers will want valid non-falsified facts about their electric cars too?
      Won't they care about kilometers per kilowatt, or the expected lifetime of the power cells?
      There will always be some aspect of a consumable product to exaggerate about or otherwise misrepresent,

      --
      If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
    6. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Saunalainen · · Score: 1

      You don't think consumers will want valid non-falsified facts about their electric cars too? Won't they care about kilometers per kilowatt, or the expected lifetime of the power cells?

      I would welcome this, and don't imagine this will show electric vehicles in a poor light. My 4 year old Nissan Leaf shows no significant battery degradation, and can still achieve better range than the official US Environmental Protection Agency figures. The manufacturers' figures are always an exaggeration, but the real-world carbon emissions of electric cars are still about a third of a fossil-fuel powered equivalent - and will only get better as electricity generation gets greener.

    7. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, electric vehicles fuel economy CAN be faked.
      All it would take is for the battery meter to be slightly non-linear, and recognise when it is likely under testing. Certain big name fridge and aircon units also doctored results.

      In Australia certain Toyota models only use the alternator to charge the battery for 1 minute or so then tapers off, leaving the battery in a low charge state - and shortens life of the battery It is speculated this helps fuel economy and efficiency tests.

      I think I read 33kg drivers, narrow tyres, no mirrors and tape over gaps is allowed in some trials. Some may not see this as 'real world''.

    8. Re:All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even with coal and natural gas, an electric vehicle will often have lower CO2 emissions than a gas powered depending on how you tally your numbers.

      100% coal is just nasty if you tally up all the pollutants, but 100% natural gas derived electricity driven car vs. gasoline car compares quite well in the EV's favour. If you care about health impacts more than greenhouse gases, natural gas is a clear winner due to much lower SO2 and particulate matter emissions. Gasoline is also worse when is comes to N20 and volatile organic compounds, but better for methane and NOX emissions.

      It also depends where you live. Currently, living downwind from a coal plant, in the exclusion zone of a nuclear plant accident, or near a busy highway or downtown traffic is roughly equivalent to taking up cigarette smoking hobby. At least electric cars would greatly improve the health for many of us living in cities or alongside highways, even if coal plants become popular again.

    9. Re: All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about us east coasters?

    10. Re: All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ???? Yea because wind and solar will work everywhere. You are a grade A idiot.

      Also what happens when the subsidies run out?

    11. Re: All your future is belong to electric vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You shut your coal plant and call it a day.

  15. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Testing and peer review may also grammar problems :-)

    I think you and the GP accidentally a word there.

  16. I don't blame them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All this tells me is that emissions standards are bullshit. If they meant anything, they would do the testing themselves, rather than have nissan fax over the results.

  17. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws." - Trump University chairman

  18. Make the control system modular by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 1

    My brother had a powerful Impala a couple decades ago, and there was a way to jack up the performance going third party. As I recall, he did the work himself. Roll the cars off the line in compliance, and publish the relevant information to override the emissions system.

    1. Re: Make the control system modular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of prohibition and the "wine bricks" workaround:

      https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/how-wine-bricks-saved-the-u-s-wine-industry-during-prohibition/

  19. Re:This is what happens when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    foxes are in charge of locking the hen house.

  20. GT-R buyers ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... don't buy this car for it's fuel economy. Nobody is going to be heartbroken over a few MPGs that turned out to be nonexistent.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  21. Re: Russia falsified US election results. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    popped up in your mind out of nowhere

    We'll it's not really out of nowhere. It's more like someone took a huge shit in the bathroom and we're asking why nobody has flushed. It's hard to ignore the stench of the current administration.

    I think you'll change your tune when he starts his 3rd term as President / Supreme Chancellor.

  22. If only grammar nazis paid attention by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    The missing word is in his subject line.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:If only grammar nazis paid attention by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      The missing word is in his subject line.

      The subject line itself appears to be missing "is".

      No big deal, I'm just joking around. I bleep up grammar all the time myself, and slashdot offers no direct way to correct it. I suggest they at least allow a footnote-like correction section. Use a line (HR) or different font to delineate it.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:If only grammar nazis paid attention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is so much wrong with Joe's post that I'm surprised anyone made sense of it.

    3. Re:If only grammar nazis paid attention by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Strangely, most of it made sense even with the mistakes. Joe has a "gift" of some kind. Perhaps he's an expert at getting past spam filters by omitting or doctoring key words. Is the Nigerian Prince hiring?

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    4. Re: If only grammar nazis paid attention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He isn't America and is like his 5th language. Joe has explained this before on slashdot.

    5. Re: If only grammar nazis paid attention by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Pretty much all languages require verbs. If one is a newbie at Swahili, at least make sure your attempted Swahili sentence has a verb, or something resembling a verb. (I suppose one could mistake a non-verb for a verb.)

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  23. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Modnays.

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    Table-ized A.I.
  24. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    "This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws." - Trump University chairman

    "Our bot cars have the most and best testing in the world, believe me! Nobody tests harder; not Jiiina, not Elton John, and not even that Samsonite gorilla. Love that guy, high energy, I know his lawyer. Make Testing Great Again!"

    FTFY

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  25. Nissan engineers attempted to give customers the b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately the liberals enacted contradictory emissions and mileage requirements that caused the car to perform like a dog. Rather than getting mad at Nissan, you should be mad at the epa. Emissions is like professional bicycling in the 2000s. Everybody who is successfull is cheating. That is the game that the epa created. Unfortunately liberals want to blame Lance Armstrong when it is the game that is crooked.

    When the epa decided CO2 was pollution they set up a no win game. In order to get great mileage, and low CO2 you have to allow other pollutants into the stream. If you trap all those pollutant, you are going to get worse fuel mileage and hence produce more CO2. You could ride am electric vehicle, or a bicycle, but no the liberals instead want to believe in a pleasant lie, buy their VW, and the. Get but hurt when they find the Tooth Fairy is not real

  26. It's a physics problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Physics is a bitch and shed doesn't care about your laws. The CAFE standards are unachievable on vehicles that meet modern safety standards.

    1. Re:It's a physics problem by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      That is what auto makers have been saying since CAFE standards were a twinkle in someone's eye.
      From where I stand, it does not seem very true.

      So many ideas have been investigated and used to increase power, fuel efficiency and reduce emissions.
      Variable valve timing and valve lift is old school now.
      We have gone back to direct injection ( yeah, I know, so very new. Did you know 1940's airplanes used it? )
      Power recovery turbines, at the end of the mainstream use of piston engines in large aircraft, they would not only provide boost with the exhaust backpressure/flow, but they would extract more work from it, and put the work into the crank shaft. Fragile as heck in the 40's. Today?
      Picking up the ideas behind how diesels work to start introducing HCCI like 'stuff' in gasoline powered engines.
      Camless valve trains seem to be getting close to realizable.
      Sleeve valve engines would be realizable, if poppet valves prove troublesome.
      5 stroke engines ( injecting water or other "stuff" to add additional work stroke(s), recover more work from the combustion heat )
      Going to a super charged, valved 2 stroke engine does not seem to get much love, everyone is hung up on the 2 stroke exhaust pipe.
      Stop looking at it as a standard 2 stroke, look at it as a 4 stroke, but you are removing strokes, not using an intake stroke, but pushing the air in, but not from the crank case. Engine weight per unit of power would be lower, using less space and fuel to move the vehicle.
      Combustion temperature control is currently a hot topic. Cant get too hot, or your oxides of nitrogen get out of hand.
      But, figure out a way to get ( start with reducing ) the nitrogen in the cylinder to begin with.
      No, don't lug around oxygen tanks, bad idea, find another way to keep the nitrogen out. Chemical/physical
      Then you can go as high as you want on temperature ( use a ceramic block/heads, use the heat in the block/heads in either a steam or thermo-electric system )
      Seems like you could loose the alternator, generate the electricity from the heat directly.
      See also power recovery and 5 stroke concepts as well.
      Just dont touch it!

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    2. Re:It's a physics problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      We have gone back to direct injection ( yeah, I know, so very new. Did you know 1940's airplanes used it? )

      We have gone to high pressure common rail direct injection, which didn't even exist commercially until the 2000s. We're not using mechanical direct injection, except on race cars.

      Camless valve trains seem to be getting close to realizable.

      Koenigsegg has them working right now ("Freevalve") but nobody wants to spend the money to put them into a production vehicle.

      Sleeve valve engines would be realizable, if poppet valves prove troublesome.

      Sleeve valves suck. You get buildup on the ports and then you destroy the rings. That's why we stopped using them. (It's also a problem with the ports on two-stroke diesels.) You could use Coates rotary valves, but they require frequent replacement. Maybe modern manufacturing techniques will make them cost-effective anyway.

      5 stroke engines ( injecting water or other "stuff" to add additional work stroke(s), recover more work from the combustion heat )

      You know you can just inject water along with the combustion charge, right? And that the water being converted into steam produces more power? However, it cools off the cylinder very rapidly, so you can only use it in a sustained fashion under the heaviest load. Water injection is a fairly common aftermarket improvement for diesel pickup trucks, and for race cars when permitted by regulation. AEM sells a cheap kit, for example.

      Combustion temperature control is currently a hot topic. Cant get too hot, or your oxides of nitrogen get out of hand.
      But, figure out a way to get ( start with reducing ) the nitrogen in the cylinder to begin with.

      Actually, they're taking the carbon out of the fuel, not the nitrogen. Decarbonizing the fuel is the obvious way to reduce emissions. NOx is reduced by new combustion cycles involving more valve overlap. (Additional overlap is also now being used to reduce compression when desired...)

      Seems like you could loose the alternator, generate the electricity from the heat directly.

      You mean with a thermocouple? They are sufficiently inefficient that you wouldn't save any mass, and they are sufficiently expensive that auto companies would laugh in your face if you proposed it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:It's a physics problem by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      The CAFE standards are unachievable on vehicles that meet modern safety standards.

      This is demonstrably incorrect. I own a car that gets 40+mpg and has a 5 star safety rating.

  27. Idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got 380K miles on my truck and replaced spark plugs, oil and filters, and a throttle position sensor . everything else is tis and baked, common to your previous leaf. That's a hell of a lot less than a battery pack.

    1. Re:Idiot by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I've got 380K miles on my truck and replaced spark plugs, oil and filters, and a throttle position sensor

      You're lucky. By that time most people have spent a lot more. We had a 2000 Astro that was delivering paint for kelly moore which needed both engine and transmission overhauled by 2005. Most powerstroke owners will have replaced injectors and HPOP by that point. If they haven't defeated the cooled EGR, most 6.0 ford owners will have written off their truck by that point :) If you don't stake a pin in the front end of the engine, even Cummins owners stand a good chance of tears by then.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  28. Info released during disaster news cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Japan is currently suffering from a severe flooding disaster to the west/south, so the management knew that releasing bad news and doing the usual apology bowing press conference during a disaster newscycle means it will get low air time domestically (in a nation where broadcast TV still rules the media). Smart move.

  29. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Testing and peer review may also grammar problems :-)

    Speaking of Grammar problems... am I the only one who, the first time he read it, read the headline as:
    Nissan Workers In Japan Failed Emissions Tests, Review Says

    I'm very drowsy this morning and not functioning well.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  30. Nissan Workers falsified... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it should be Nissan falsified...

  31. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Testing and peer review may also grammar problems :-)

    Fixed that for you:

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Testing and peer review may also grammar problem's :-)

  32. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This why self driving cars will lot's of testing and laws.

    Testing and peer review may also grammar problems :-)

    I think you and the GP accidentally a word there.

    GGP* may have accidentally a word, but I think GP* intentionally a word.

    *Both taken from my perspective.

  33. Didn't affect FUEL ECONOMY metrics my !@#$% by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    I purchased a Nissan Versa, rated at 38 MPG HWY. I have an approximately 100 mile daily commute largely over highway and back-country roads. (In otherwords, few stoplights, thought some areas of highway congestion.) Over two years, I averaged around 35.5 MPG - approximately 93% of expected HWY mileage. Not bad...

    So I upgraded to a Nissan Rogue, rated at 31HWY / 25CITY, and a combined 27MPG. Same commute...and I averaged 23.5MPG, 75% of the rated HWY mileage. Even more abysmal, is the fact that I only managed 94% of the rated CITY mileage.

    Here is the thing, this wasn't an anomaly. Almost every independent test was around the same, and most of the reports on fueleconomy.gov also were similar. Yet, these car manufacturers are allowed to print their own fraudulent estimates.
    https://www.edmunds.com/nissan...
    https://www.edmunds.com/nissan...

    So yes, fuel economy was fudged by Nissan.

  34. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  35. Re:This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's Joe Dragon. The user so stupid we thought it was a creimer alt.

  36. Re: This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by houghi · · Score: 1

    5years updaes for a car? That would mean that after 5 years it will become cheaper to buy a new one. What should happen is that when they decide to stop giving free updates, the code must be available for free. If possible even 1 year before they stop giving free upgrades.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  37. Re: This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    but then they can change $100 labor + $100 software at dealer for an forced update.

  38. Re: Russia falsified US election results. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who went dookie in the urinal ?

  39. Re: This why self driving cars need lot's of tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He knows 5 Languages. With English being his 5th. He's a pretty smart guy.

  40. Re: Russia falsified US election results. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.