UK Wants An Electric-Vehicle Charger In Every New Home (thedrive.com)

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UK Wants An Electric-Vehicle Charger In Every New Home (thedrive.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Monday July 9, 2018 @01:00PM from the preparing-for-the-future dept.

A new government proposal included in Road to Zero, a report on climate-change related policies, would require all new homes to be fitted with electric car charging points. It follows a commitment made last year by the UK to end sales of new gasoline and diesel cars by 2040. The Drive reports: "It is our intention that all new homes, where appropriate, should have a charge point available," a government statement said. "We plan to consult as soon as possible on introducing a requirement for charge point infrastructure for new dwellings in England."

To help achieve that goal, the U.K. will reportedly establish a 400-million-pound ($531 million) fund for companies that manufacture and install charging stations. The government is also reportedly looking at integrating charging stations with newly-installed streetlights, as well as wireless-charging technology. A new Automated and Electric Vehicles bill will also give the government power to mandate installation of charging infrastructure at highway service stations.

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Potential Debcale by JBMcB · 2018-07-09 13:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

This sounds like one of those situations where they install charging stations all over the place, then in ten years there is a new standard and all the old charging stations are now obsolete.

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1. Re:Potential Debcale by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-09 13:10 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I've heard of this special type of person called an "Engineer" who designs systems such as the electrical installation in a residence.
  These "Engineers" are very clever, very clever indeed! They've come up with a method by which it doesn't matter which sort of connector is used. Incredible I know! I was hesitant to believe such a thing possible when I first heard it myself!
  They call it "modularity".
2. Re:Potential Debcale by im_thatoneguy · 2018-07-09 13:34 · Score: 2
  
  If only there was a continent wide standard...
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
3. Re:Potential Debcale by im_thatoneguy · 2018-07-09 13:58 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Or, we find an energy storage mechanism that doesn't use a high voltage charger.
  
  Ohm's law isn't changing any time in the next century. If you want lots of current (120kw+) into a storage device it either needs to be very high amperage (low resistance giant fat cables or room temperature super conductors) or high voltage or both.
  Tesla Superchargers are high voltage and high amperage (480v and 250A).
  If the UK's power mains are 230v and that's a constant that isn't going to change any time soon. So all that this law requires is that a high amperage cable be run from the circuit breaker to a place in the garage where an adapter can be wired up.
  Adding an extra 30A circuit is around $50 in parts. The expensive part is just running cable in a home with drywall and studs. It only takes a minute to run the cable while the house is under construction.
4. Re:Potential Debcale by TechyImmigrant · 2018-07-09 14:10 · Score: 2
  
  If only there was a continent wide standard...
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  Well there's ChaDeMo, J1772, CCS, CCS with the extra testicles and Tesla.
  From an engineering standpoint, ChaDeMo wins. One connector, 'DC fast charging' - which actually means the charger is outside the car and so can be much more capable, canbus for negotiating the charge, high voltage support allowing thinner, more flexible cables and a clever name. But it's Japanese, comes on Japanese cars (my Leaf has it) and chargers are few and far between. I only ever used one (at my local airport). Being the best solution, it is obviously never going to become universal, because people love things to be crappy and awkward.
  J1772 seems to be the universally available one in the US however it's an AC pass through, so the car has to lug around the weight and volume of the AC->DC and battery charger circuit within the car.
  CCS is like J1772, but has two connectors, one with the DC testicles and one without (see the picture in the wiki , which is entirely stupid. Go to a fast CCS charger with a car that doesn't take the testicles and you can't charge. Your car has to have the charger to accommodate the non-fast charging variant.
  Tesla is it's own thing. Only works in Teslas. This is stupid. It's easy to see why Tesla did that, but it incomprehensible to me that the governments didn't get together and standardize internationally the charging mechanism, just like they did for the mechanism petrol refueling.
  The upshot of this failure to standardize is that a large fraction of the EVs out there drive around wasting energy lugging high power charger circuitry and a bag full of adapters in the truck or frunk that need not be there.
  
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5. Re: Potential Debcale by Type44Q · 2018-07-09 14:12 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Fortunately, UK bureaucrats are well-known for their intelligence.
6. Re:Potential Debcale by Chuq · 2018-07-09 15:11 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Many of the things you've said are technically true, but are worded in such a way to make it sound bad. There is a mix now worldwide, but if you look at a continent/regional level there is a clear preference for one system or the other going forward.
  * You need AC charging so that you can charge from any power point, anywhere on the planet. This makes any home a potential charging location and is vital to the success of EVs because 90% of the time you don't need anything else.
  * You need DC charging so that when travelling long distances, you can charge at 50kW, even up to 150kW or 350kW, which is effectively the same time as you would stop on a road trip if using petrol/diesel. Some don't support this, but will be a necessity for mainstream acceptance.
  So, for the most part, each car is going to need to support two standards, one AC and one DC.
  AC - most countries have chosen one standard or another - USA and Japan are predominantly J1772, Europe is predominantly Type 2.. however in any case, it isn't much of an issue, you can get adaptors to go from one to the other and in some countries the standard is that the charging unit has a socket only - so your carry your own cable which is suitable for your car. So while there are different plug types the electricity is all "compatible". On a purely technical basis, Type 2 is superior - it allows rates up to 22kW or 43kW.
  DC - the three public standards are Chademo, CCS1, and CCS2. Chademo, a big plug on it's own. CCS1 and 2, combine one of the two AC standards mentioned above with 2 pins for DC. The bonus here is that the car then only needs the one socket which can take an AC or DC plug. Again, most countries have chosen one of these as a standard, a small number have chosen two (with a preferences towards one for future vehicles). DC fast charging equipment has two plugs in the same way that fuel pumps have 3, 4 or 5 types of fuel.
  CCS2 is the format being used for IONITY and other 350kW charging networks in Europe. So every big European manufacturer is now going to use it. I think it will be the eventual winner. As a result, Type 2 will follow on as the AC standard.
  Tesla is a strange one, but I'm going to guess you are North American - because almost everywhere else, Tesla uses the Type 2 socket which makes it compatible with many other public charging stations. It is speculated that the Model 3 outside North America will have a CCS2 port, which would make it compatible with both public Type2 and CCS2, as well as existing Tesla chargers/superchargers. It's a shame they didn't go down this route in North America, because they've now backed themselves into a corner due to how many cars and chargers use the existing North American socket type.
  
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7. Re:Potential Debcale by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-09 15:22 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Pretty sure anybody buying a new built house in the UK doesn't care about their house costing $50 more to build.
  For the record, I had a 50A circuit installed in my garage last month by a licensed electrician. The cost including materials and labor was $150.
8. Re:Potential Debcale by swillden · 2018-07-09 16:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  This sounds like one of those situations where they install charging stations all over the place, then in ten years there is a new standard and all the old charging stations are now obsolete.
  Meh.
  The charger isn't the expensive part of adding a charging station, it's getting a high-amperage power line run to the right place. Done during new construction, that costs very little. Done after the fact... it can be cheap or it can be really expensive, depending.
  If I were advising the government, I'd tell them not to bother with the chargers, just add a requirement to the building code: a 240V 50A outlet should be provided in the parking lot area (in the US, it would be a NEMA 14-50 outlet; not sure what the UK equivalent is). With the power available, you can always install a charger. They don't cost much.
  If they must install chargers, J1772 is standard enough. And if something else is needed, most likely you can just slap an adapter on it (I charge my Tesla with a J1772 plus a $35 adapter).
  
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9. Re: Potential Debcale by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-09 18:15 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Inasmuch as your spelling is indubitably poor, I shall indeed use these words and any others I may chose to deploy from my extensive lexicon.
10. Re:Potential Debcale by welshie · 2018-07-09 18:46 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  three-phase isn't actually 400V RMS between the phase and neutral, it's 400V RMS between phases.
  Most UK domestic properties aren't hooked up to all three phases of the grid. Typically, each house along a street will take a different phase from the grid, so my house would have about 240V from phase 1, my neighbour to my left is on phase 2, my neighbour to my right is phase 3.
  In the UK, the phase-to-neutral voltage is notionally 230V with a tolerance of -10% +6% but that only came in with international harmonisation, in reality, UK domestic properties tend to be about 240V, because that's what was designed into the grid before the international harmonisation. Having this harmonisation is good - it means that aside from a different connector, you can use an appliance bought in Ireland and use it in Russia.
11. Re: Potential Debcale by Bert64 · 2018-07-09 19:32 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If you're building a house you will already hire an electrician to do many hours or even days of work, an extra few minutes to install a car charger isn't going to make much difference when he's already wiring up lighting and multiple power sockets to every room. You'll already be paying whatever charges for distance and travel they request in either case.
  
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12. Re:Potential Debcale by Custard+Horse · 2018-07-09 20:05 · Score: 2
  
  What they should have is a universal connecting bus (UCB) to which you can attach a future connector. A bit like buying an electrical appliance with a universal plug and you choose which end to fit to match your country standard. When you but a EV you simply select the appropriate connector and slot it into the (UCB). Obviously connectors will become obsolete but at least you only have to replace part of the connection rather than ripping the wall down like a grizzly old scab.
13. Re:Potential Debcale by tlhIngan · 2018-07-09 20:11 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Tesla is a strange one, but I'm going to guess you are North American - because almost everywhere else, Tesla uses the Type 2 socket which makes it compatible with many other public charging stations. It is speculated that the Model 3 outside North America will have a CCS2 port, which would make it compatible with both public Type2 and CCS2, as well as existing Tesla chargers/superchargers. It's a shame they didn't go down this route in North America, because they've now backed themselves into a corner due to how many cars and chargers use the existing North American socket type.
  It's not an odd connector. It's a NEMA 14-50 socket, which gives you 240V @ 50A. It's a common household plug, used for electric ranges. It's also used for RVs that want 50A service. And thanks to that, there are common adapters to NEMA 14-30 (dryer plug).
  So it's somewhat interesting, given you can go into an RV park and charge your Tesla as well (most RV parks provide a choice of 15/20A @ 115V, 30A and 50A service)
  Most homes will have 1 or 2 of each plug, and an electrician can easily add more - the plugs are cheap. so they're one of the few EVs where the charger is practically free compared to the electrician.
14. Re:Potential Debcale by Hognoxious · 2018-07-09 23:09 · Score: 2
  
  Twaddle. The size of the conductors is determined by the current.
  A higher voltage can jump further, so the voltage determines the distances of the pins from 1) each other and 2) the outside world, i.e. your fingers, the dog's tongue. That effectively sets a minimum size for the plug.
  
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15. Re: Potential Debcale by skullandbones99 · 2018-07-10 01:09 · Score: 2
  
  You are both correct:
  1. UK equipment is rated (as per the mains specification) at the nominal voltage of 230V AC +/- the tolerance.
  2. Put a voltmeter across a UK socket and you will measure 240V AC and this inside the tolerance of point #1.
  Therefore, both statements are consistent with each other.
  All European 230V AC rated equipment will work anywhere in Europe.
16. Re: Potential Debcale by DRJlaw · 2018-07-10 01:31 · Score: 2
  
  Do you want to have an electric dryer, water heater, or arc welder?
  Lots of uses for a 240V 40A circuit in the garage. Housing stock that should last for generations should not be crippled by your 10-second imaginationless brain fart.
Will they have to wire their own plug? by jfdavis668 · 2018-07-09 13:39 · Score: 2

Seems the English way to do things. Teach your kids to wire their own plugs.
Re:Just political grandstanding, folks! by im_thatoneguy · 2018-07-09 14:10 · Score: 3, Informative

if anything, this will drive UP the value of existing homes since they aren't subject to this new requirement.
FFS, installing a home charger costs about $250 in parts including the plug. It's about $50 in parts if you just want to install a high amp circuit 20 feet from the circuit breaker.
It's a few hundred extra bucks to have an electrician and install it once your house is prebuilt. This will drive down the price if anything of existing homes since a new home will include a charger that cost the developer maybe $300 (on top of $700,000) but an existing home will cost $800 for an electrician to come out for 3 hours and run cable through a finished wall.
The AC plague by Michael+Woodhams · 2018-07-09 15:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

1) Read the one sentence summary "charger in every new home".
2) Don't bother to read the fine article, which includes words like "where appropriate" and "consult".
3) Assume that "charger in every new home" will be applied rigidly even when it makes no sense. This will be a regulation which will probably run to hundreds of pages, but pretend that one sentence says everything you need to know about it. Also pretend that the people writing regulations are drooling idiots.
4) Conclude that the policy will lead to idiotic outcomes, rather than realizing you are making idiotic interpretation
5) Post as AC about how idiotic this policy is
6) ????
7) Profit!
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1. Re:The AC plague by Michael+Woodhams · 2018-07-09 17:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Wow, you just broke my irony meter with your straw man argument.
  
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We won't own cars by then anyway??? by ClarkMills · 2018-07-09 15:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

In one alternate universe nobody owns cars anyway, just autonomous rides requested by us from A to B. Then the shared car goes off and charges itself up in the nearest distributed charging station.
Re:retarded by shilly · 2018-07-09 18:49 · Score: 2

It's almost as if you didn't read that they'd said charge points would be required "where appropriate"
The electrician is the expensive bit by sjbe · 2018-07-09 23:37 · Score: 3

However, just having high voltage to the right place and done in a way that it could be accessed/upgraded easily would be a great idea.
That's called an electrical socket. You may have heard of them. Neat thing is that you can plug anything you want into them.
Seriously, run the high voltage line to where it needs to be and allow for the charge station to be installed/replaced later. The expensive bit is the electrical contractor's time. Putting a charge station on the wall is easy and trivial. I'm in the process of doing that to my house this very week. I need a 240V line for a level 2 charging station run in my garage for my Bolt EV. Once the line is run, installing the charger itself is childs play. If someone had already installed a charger there so much the better even it it wasn't the latest tech. The electricians time is costing me more than the charger.
Basically it's easy and cheap to install the power lines when building a new home. It's a lot more expensive to do it after the fact. I don't know that it's necessary to actually install a charger but it might be reasonable to require that the house be wired to accommodate one.

Just don't require the actual charger to be installed, because it will be obsolete far too quickly.
Not very likely. It doesn't have to be the latest or greatest to be useful either and there is nothing prohibiting people from upgrading them in the future if necessary. Installing an actual charger is probably not sensible but running the lines to permit one seems like a very good idea on new construction.
Re:Just political grandstanding, folks! by coofercat · 2018-07-10 00:33 · Score: 3, Informative

Not so here in the UK - we get ripped off for everything.
Right now, if you buy an electric car, you can get £500 towards the purchase of a charge unit (from the government). Guess what!? all charge units magically cost £499. After that you need to fit the thing, and for that you'll need a 16A armoured cable from a dedicated RCD on your fuse board. We got ours fitted for free by Mitsubishi, but they'll only really run the cable and connect it up - if your fuse board isn't new enough, isn't big enough or accessible enough, then you'll need your own spark to come and fix up all of that before the "free" connection comes along (our "free" guy said he's move the stuff off the RCD he used "on the quiet" because he's not even supposed to do that - the RCD has to be literally empty when he shows up). Our install was simple, but I'd say you could get charged a couple of hundred quid for it, if you got your own spark to do it.
If this regulation mandated that you had to have a 16A feed to your garage or driveway or to your allocated parking space or whatever then it would make a lot of sense. The cost of the charge units would come down to real levels rather than inflated ones, and people would be free to buy a good looking charge unit rather than the utter mingers a lot of the companies force on you. Further, you'd get the charger right for your car, could get a 'smart' one if you want, can get one that will alternate between two cars or whatever.
If the regulation went further and said you need a 32A feed, then things get really funky. The usual properly-wide fuse in the UK is 60A, so if your car is pulling the full 32A, you can blow the fuse by boiling the kettle while straightening your hair (pretty much). Some newish properties in the UK have no gas, so they use electric heating - again, that 32A feed is going to be a real problem there. I seriously doubt any of the grid can really cope with 50% of the houses pulling the full 60A at the same time, never mind all of them doing so. In practical terms, the only way we're ever really going to have 32A feeds is if we have some sort of battery storage for it - and there's no way these regulations will demand all of that.
So... expect some terrible legislation that will be (ab)used by the charge point manufacturers to inflate their profits, whilst charging the house-buyer and consumer for it. Expect the regulations to be woefully out of date in a matter of years, but not updated to reflect that, so you'll have to have a charge point you can't use as well as putting in one yourself that you can. Can't wait.
Shared versus owned by sjbe · 2018-07-10 01:32 · Score: 2

If the future that eventuates is this car-summoned-on-demand one, then yes, this policy will waste money.
I think the probability of this is remarkable low for most of the globe. Presuming the technology works (not yet a given but good chance of it happening), the economics of "summon on demand" cars manifestly dictates you need to live in an area with a certain population density. There probably are other second order problems too like theft, vandalism, hacking, etc (remember nobody is guarding the vehicle) that people aren't really paying enough attention to yet but may/will turn out to be significant problems. There also will be the human psychology issue to work out. People don't like change and this would be a pretty major lifestyle change for millions.
I think if you live in an area where taxis are a daily reality then it might make sense for that locale. I don't really see it working out in suburbia or rural areas though. Demand would be very inconsistent (rush hour twice daily then... ?) and it would have a large number of vehicles sitting idle just like they do now. Hard to see where the profit to a company would be in doing that. But in a place like Manhattan where things operate a lot more 24/7 and with a high population density and limited garage space I could see it being a pretty useful technology.

If the future that eventuates is that most people own their own electric cars, this policy will save money.
Seems substantially more likely but you are right that there is still a non-negligible uncertainty involved. But I think if they require the garages to be wired for new construction and major renovations that's pretty minimal cost for pretty substantial long term gain.