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Apple Won't Replace Faulty MacBook Pro Keyboards With Third-Gen Components (macrumors.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the new-and-improved dept.

After determining that a "small percentage" of 2015-2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards may experience sticky keys, Apple initiated a Keyboard Service Program. The company has been servicing affected keyboards for free, but the fix doesn't guarantee the problem won't emerge again. The new 2018 MacBook Pros feature third-generation keyboards that are intended to prevent the keys from getting stuck. "For this reason, some customers have been hoping that Apple will start swapping out second-generation keyboards with third-generation keyboards, as part of its service program, but MacRumors has learned that isn't the plan." From the report: When asked if Apple Stores and Apple Authorized Service Providers will be permitted to replace second-generation keyboards on 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models with the new third-generation keyboards, if necessary, Apple said, no, the third-generation keyboards are exclusive to the 2018 MacBook Pro. Hopefully, in that case, it means that Apple has quietly tweaked the second-generation keyboard to be more reliable. It wouldn't really make sense for Apple to replace keyboards with ones that are just as prone to break again, especially if the third-generation keyboards offer a fix.

One possibility is that the third-generation keyboards aren't backwards compatible with 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models to begin with. The keyboard is actually one part of a larger component called the "top case," which also has a glued-in battery, and the internal design could be tweaked in 2018 models.

14 of 76 comments (clear)

  1. Score one... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Score one for crappy, non-modular design -- engineering by artistes, not engineers. I'll stick with my 12" Thinkpad, where swapping a keyboard is one connector and a few screws. Swollen battery? Press two latches, pull out the old battery. Click! Clack! New battery! So easy. More RAM? You get the idea. It can even run MacOS/OS X... The only downside is that it's a few mm thicker, but at least it won't bend like cardboard at the slightest provocation.

    1. Re:Score one... by Rockoon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I dont understand the desire for the "apple experience." Seems like a whole lot of downside for very little upside.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Score one... by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      It is the same thing as people who buy a Tesla, but you can also virtue signal that you "care about the environment" while you drive around in your $80,000 car. Meanwhile, they have a gas guzzling SUV at home to haul the kids around when they decide not to take the Tesla out.

    3. Re:Score one... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      It's a nice laptop. When I first used one in 2009, I liked it. It was lighter than all other laptops I've used, and the trackpad was easy to use until anything I've seen on PC laptops, and battery life was very good. I distinctly remember at the time being impressed about how much better it was than what I'd used in the past. Granted, I did not pay for it out of my own pocket.

      Today though the gap is smaller, both PCs and Macs have very light models that are both power efficient and with good CPU performance. Trackpad is still better on Mac in my view, but Apple has a lot of key patents here so it's hard for PCs to copy it. On the other hand the newest Macs have the drawback of using USB-C for everything. People at work are holding onto their 2015 Macbook Pros rather than upgrading for a variety of reasons.

    4. Re:Score one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I dont understand the desire for the "apple experience." Seems like a whole lot of downside for very little upside.

      I joined the Apple experience after they switched to Intel. OSX is a great OS, based on unix, you can compile and build software just like you would on other BSD or linux, there's precompiled GNU stuff you can load up, you can run their attractive OS shell, you can go to shell and be a cli monkey. Then you also have access to a lot of nice professional art/video/music applications that you wouldn't get on Linux or BSD. Then since they're on Intel you can also dual/triple boot to Windows/Linux and/or OSX. On top of that they used to select pretty good PC parts and make some well regarded systems.

      Since that time Form won over function. I think the line in the sand for me was the new USB-C MacBook Pros. There's a host of issues now not just the keyboards. The overall sense of neglect and snubbing of actual professions. Maybe people don't want to leave Apple but are forced because Apple doesn't offer a system they need for sale. Then I think about YT guys like Snazzy Labs and Linux Tech Tips, who both had very negative experiences with Apple over the iMac Pro. To me $5000 is a hella lot of money to put into a PC and that right there says buyer beware. Louis Rossmann on YT also has some great insights into some technical aspects and policy aspects of Apple.

      All of this is enough for me to build a PC and try to make the switch away from OSX. It's frustrating but I think it's on a slow decline and the cracks are becoming more apparent. Some on the outside might say "what took you so long to notice?" but if you replace the machine every three years you'll always be under warranty and when OSX works it has a lot of nice things and smooth ecosystem integration. There's always been reasons to be wary of Apple and at least all my data is in more universal formats for the most part. Easier for me to get out than some others I suppose.

      Also for people who might transition but are struggling, check out tonymacx86 for info about setting up a hackintosh. There's also guides and files available to get OSX running in a Virtual Machine on the PC if you google it. Don't try running an OSX VM for anything that needs real time performance or is intensive, but if you have some desktop apps and email you can't toss away today one of these options could potentially help make it less jolting to leave.

    5. Re:Score one... by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      There are actually a number of reasons, but it basically bois down to because OS X is as closest we've ever gotten to "Linux on the Desktop". I get to enjoy my bash prompt and OSS software (eg: homebrew) and still get to use Microsoft Office and Adobe if I need them.

      Their hardware also used to be really good (circa 2010 give or take). But that's gone to shit now, so the only thing going for them is OSX. Despite the strides that the hackintosh community have made, using a hackintosh still feels too much like walking on egg shells, so if you have disposable income and lack of time, then unfortunately you're still better off just buying their crap hardware.

      I'm still using a 2010 MBP at home as my main workhorse cause I was able to upgrade it to 16GB and 1TB SSD. Buying an equivalent MBP today would cost me 5 grand up front cause everything is a toaster now. Yeah I don't think so.

    6. Re:Score one... by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

      I actually like OS X and iOS to a degree, but I agree, there's no real reason to buy MacBook hardware other than to blend in with the other hipster emulators with the Github stickers on their MacBooks.

      BMW and Mercedes do this too. Especially with Mercedes, the idea used to be that you spend a ton of money and get a reliable tank. Now, both are designed to last just beyond the 3-year lease period. Both have insanely expensive, single-source electronic components that can make a simple repair cost thousands. And all of these electronics are designed so they can only be replaced by a BMW dealer and fail long before the mechanical parts do.

      Apple would love nothing more than to lease you a MacBook and have it simply stop working at the end of the 3 years...just send a high voltage pulse and destroy the electronics on the motherboard...sorry, logic board. They're waiting a generation until absolutely everyone is over on the "new iPhone every 2 years" model and doesn't remember what owning electronics was like.

  2. Re:Happy with the decision by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yawn! Just another portless wonderbook with the reliability of a sheet of wet cardboard. Call me when Apple makes a real computer, not a prop for hipsters who want to look good.

  3. Re:Fire the editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's a different story - Actually the 2018 MacBook keyboard has a thin rubberized layer under its keycaps, which is patented (http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20180068808) and as described in the patent: 'designed to “prevent and/or alleviate contaminant ingress'

    Source: iFixit: https://ifixit.org/blog/10279/apple-macbook-keyboard-cover-up/

    Of course Apple won't admit it because they are in the middle of class action lawsuit right now.
    Now the newsworthy here is Apple won't use the new keyboard on previous gen MacBook to fix the keyboard issues, because if Apple does so, it means Apple is admitting its own fault.

  4. AAST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple Authorized Service Technician here.

    1.) Yes, I can confirm, the keyboard is integrated with the top case, trackpad, battery, power button, and touch bar on 2017/2017 model MBPs.
    2.) Would the top case from the 2018 work with a 2017 logic board? No. Why? Changed connectors and changed firmware on the battery and touch bar. You can't plug it in, and if you could, your logic board would query the hardware [What are you?], it would respond with [unexpected value], and your logic board and OSX would both go [wtf is this Mickey Mouse horse shit?].
    3.) Give it up. You're not getting a replacement that won't break. The entire intent behind not putting the rubberized seal around the keys was specifically so it would break just outside of warranty and you'd have to get a new one. When you start looking at prices of the parts + repair, most people will think, "You know, it's almost worth it just to get a new one rather than repair this one..." Which is the intent. Apple is trying to get out of the replacement parts business and break into the 'disposable computer' business, except they still want that whole "Apple = expensive, expensive = good + status symbol, thus apple = good + status symbol" meme to keep going.

    1. Re:AAST by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      You're on Slashdot among friends. It's okay. You can say the word "motherboard". :-)

  5. Re:No Surprise! by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    "I’ve been thinking. When Apple gives you lemons? Don’t buy them. Make Apple take the lemons back! Get mad! We don’t want your damn lemons! What are we supposed to do with these? Demand to see Apple’s manager! Make him rue the day he thought he could sell us lemons! Do you know who we are? We’re the men who are going to crash your company shares down! With your own lemons!"

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  6. Re:What more evidence do you need ... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    ... anymore.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  7. Re:Steve Jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He died and a lot of the people he was protecting within the company were vulnerable after his death, some like Scott Forstall, were clearly forced out by his younger and less experienced subordinates, in fact, I suspect he was set up to be holding the bag when the fails around the Apple Maps launch occurred.

    There's a lot of politics between the ignorant, spoilt and very young inner city valley kids who're now moving into engineering roles and the old guard responsible for the good years up to 2012 or so. The new guys engineering skills do not appear to be up to Apple's past standards, but since Tim the gay MBA is in charge instead of Jobs, it's all swept under the carpet.