Venmo Refuses To Say Why Transactions Are Public By Default (zdnet.com)

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Venmo Refuses To Say Why Transactions Are Public By Default (zdnet.com)

Posted by msmash on Friday July 20, 2018 @05:10AM from the stranger-things dept.

Venmo, the mobile payments app, won't say why it exposes users' data to the world whenever they make a transaction. ZDNet: Hang Do Thi Duc, a Berlin-based privacy researcher found that every time someone sent or received money using the PayPal-owned mobile app (which had over seven million users in 2017), the transaction was "public" by default and was broadcast on Venmo's API. In other words, everyone can see your transactions -- even without the app. The company did not respond to ZDNet's queries, but in a blanket statement said it takes privacy of users seriously.

Further reading: People Are Using Venmo To Spy On Cheating Spouses.

47 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

square cash by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 05:14 · Score: 0

I've always used Square Cash primarily because of this
1. Re:square cash by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  I've always used actual cash primarily because of this
2. Re:square cash by fattmatt · 2018-07-20 05:50 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  I only use gold coins and .22lr rounds because I am a libertarian.
3. Re:square cash by Chris+Mattern · 2018-07-20 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  I've always used Square Cash primarily because of this
  Square Cash? My cash are these paper rectangles and metal disks...
4. Re:square cash by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 06:23 · Score: 0
  
  I, too, feel comfortable letting the idiot who started Twitter handle my financial info.
5. Re:square cash by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 06:41 · Score: 0
  
  I only use cryptocurrencies because I am a crypto-libtertarian.
6. Re:square cash by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2018-07-20 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  You elites with your fancy gold coins and ammo; when I was a kid we used Monopoly money and rusty BBs and we were happy to do so. And it was uphill both ways wherever we went.
  
  --
  Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
7. Re:square cash by Applehu+Akbar · 2018-07-20 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  I've always used Square Cash primarily because of this
  Seconded.
8. Re:square cash by Khyber · 2018-07-20 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  Wrong, Libertarians hoard silver (Ahem, Liberty Dollar, anyone?)
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
9. Re:square cash by tkotz · 2018-07-20 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  A silver standard does make a lot more sense than a gold standard. Gold is just too rare, possibly a key contributor to the great depression was the lack of money supply for the expanding economy after the switch to the gold standard removed silver money.
  The history of a ~25g silver trade coin is actually kind of interesting. From the German thaler thru the Spanish peso (piece of 8), the Japanese yen, Chinese yuan, to the US dollar. It is a really interesting common trade currency. The fact that the size of the current US dime, quarter and 50 cent piece are all based off of it is kind of cool and shows how much the early US was influenced by the dominance of Spanish culture. At today's silver price (499.94/kg), it would put the coin's value around US$12.50 which would be a useful day to day spendable denomination. Though maybe a little heavy for larger expenditures. So I'll stick with fiat currencies issued by stable governments.
Perceived network effect and gamification by perpenso · 2018-07-20 05:19 · Score: 3, Interesting

Venmo Refuses To Say Why Transactions Are Public By Default
Its an attempt to increase users and usage through a perceived network effect and through gamification.
1. Re:Perceived network effect and gamification by cathector · 2018-07-20 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  this is an attractive theory, but needs a solid citation.
2. Re:Perceived network effect and gamification by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 05:53 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Its an attempt to increase users and usage through a perceived network effect and through gamification. [1]
3. Re:Perceived network effect and gamification by cathector · 2018-07-20 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  I STAND ASSUAGED!
why not? by sittingnut · 2018-07-20 05:23 · Score: 1

as long as they are open about transactions being public. why not?
if customers want, they can seek private transactions service elsewhere.
1. Re:why not? by neonv · 2018-07-20 05:27 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Most people won't realize their transactions are public. Hence the privacy issue.
2. Re:why not? by FFOMelchior · 2018-07-20 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's pretty obvious when your transactions get likes, or if you look at the feed and notice 100 other transactions from your network.
3. Re:why not? by bano · 2018-07-20 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  Yea, Amazing discovery there bud...
  It took me I'd say less than 5 seconds of using the app the first time to see this as there are basically 3 tabs across the top. Me, Friends, and Public.
  The largest section of the wikipedia article about venmo is a description of this feature...
4. Re:why not? by AlanBDee · 2018-07-20 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  It was obvious to us when we started using it. The wife and I went back and forth quite a bit when she wanted to use it. She argued that the open transactions are a feature. If we wanted to keep a transaction private we'd use cash or paypal. She said it's a good thing to be able to see what other people paid our neighbors for babysitting. It's also a great place to leave a thank you or small message.
  I personally don't get it but my wife wanted to use it and I didn't see it as any less secure then using paypal. Since it funnels through our debit cards we have that extra security through there.
5. Re:why not? by blahbooboo · 2018-07-20 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  It's not a big deal, switch her Venmo transaction privacy setting to private and they wont display. Problem solved.
6. Re:why not? by b0s0z0ku · 2018-07-20 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  Why not just use cash for small payments like that?
7. Re:why not? by AlanBDee · 2018-07-20 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  That was my argument. I guess it's the inconvenience of having to make sure you have the cash. I also think there is some sort of social network aspect to using it that my wife likes. Again, I don't get it but she was pretty insistent.
8. Re:why not? by ShanghaiBill · 2018-07-20 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  It's pretty obvious when your transactions get likes
  At that point your first transaction is already public. The first time I used Venmo, I did not realize my transaction was public. It was a small reimbursement for something innocuous, but I was still surprised that other people could see it without my consent. There was no warning or notice that "the whole world is watching".
9. Re:why not? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  It was obvious to us when we started using it. The wife and I went back and forth quite a bit when she wanted to use it. She argued that the open transactions are a feature. If we wanted to keep a transaction private we'd use cash or paypal. She said it's a good thing to be able to see what other people paid our neighbors for babysitting.
  And now it's not just a privacy but also an antitrust issue.
10. Re:why not? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-22 05:06 · Score: 0
  
  I think what is surprising is anyone can view your public transactions. I think a lot of people think it is just their "friends" that can see them.
Only apps can app apps! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 05:36 · Score: 0

Modern app appers know that only LUDDITES use LUDDITE private mode! Appy app apps only have appy public mode!
Apps!
1. Re:Only apps can app apps! by nnet · 2018-07-20 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  I apped........once.
2. Re:Only apps can app apps! by astrofurter · 2018-07-20 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  I apped once - but I didn't inhale.
3. Re:Only apps can app apps! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 07:26 · Score: 0
  
  Please kill yourself and stop wasting my oxygen. Thanks.
Scary amount solutions by fahrbot-bot · 2018-07-20 05:37 · Score: 1

From TFA:

I used Venmo's public API to pull in all public transactions of 2017 -- a total of 207,984,218 transactions," he said in an email. "By looking through them, I learned a scary amount about Venmo users. I was able to follow a drug dealer's sales, ...
Well... if drug dealers would only accept MasterCard, VISA or a personal check ...

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
That's perfectly okay... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 05:54 · Score: 0

... because if you have to ask why they do it, then you're a moron anyway.
Venmo takes privacy of users seriously by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 06:09 · Score: 0

Just like doctors take the cancer of their patients seriously.
Re:Sad news by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 06:09 · Score: 0

Well dead bodies do start bloating.
Why? by b0bby · 2018-07-20 06:24 · Score: 1

When I first heard the youth were using this, it just sounded like an easy to use paypal for the things that paypal was initially made for - paying your pals at dinner etc.
Then I learned about this "social" aspect and all I could think was "why the hell would anyone do this"? That's still my feeling.
1. Re:Why? by b0s0z0ku · 2018-07-20 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  That's what cash was made for. Also, anyone who tips in anything other than cash is uncivilized (assuming a country where tipping is required). Cash makes sure that tips aren't stolen by the back of the house.
2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 07:31 · Score: 0
  
  The purpose of cash tips is to help deadbeat dads stiff their kids.
3. Re:Why? by b0s0z0ku · 2018-07-20 07:35 · Score: 1
  
  I'd rather give people the ability to break the law than create a panopticon where everything is strictly controlled. Free will...
Its ok by Hadlock · 2018-07-20 06:25 · Score: 1

My younger friend (he's 24) has been staying on my boat while he looks for a new place, has been venmoing me "rent" money for a couple of months. The public feature doesn't seem that useful, we put memo notes like "for helping trump collude better with russia". I didn't use the memo feature in paypal, still don't use it with venmo.

Probably why they make it public is because it's the only globally unique thing their payment app does, otherwise anybody can replace them.

--
moox. for a new generation.
I'll tell you why by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2018-07-20 06:38 · Score: 2

"Venmo, the mobile payments app, won't say why it exposes users' data to the world whenever they make a transaction"
I'll tell you why....the reason is because they don't give a shit about you or your privacy.
You're welcome.

--
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
1. Re:I'll tell you why by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 09:47 · Score: 0
  
  I thought it was because Hipsters
It includes profile pictures by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 08:24 · Score: 0

I'm scraping them... could be useful for some deep learning experiments. Easy source of pictures.
Fun Fact: You can't unpublic your transactions... by Radical+Moderate · 2018-07-20 08:34 · Score: 1

..using the app. You have log in via the web to change that setting.

Disclaimer: Tested one month ago on Android, YMMV, void where prohibited.

--
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Public Ledger? by tkotz · 2018-07-20 09:41 · Score: 1

There is something to be said for potential fraud prevention of having a public ledger.
It probably can help keep them out of hot water from potential misuse.
Admittedly if this was the interest, they probably would not make it optional.
Venmo takes the privacy of their users seriously by Attila+Dimedici · 2018-07-20 10:28 · Score: 1

Venmo takes the privacy of its users seriously, and thinks it is a bad thing.

--
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Re:Fun Fact: You can't unpublic your transactions. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-20 11:47 · Score: 0

You can totally set it in the Android app and none of this is hidden. Just go to "Settings" -> "Privacy" and the option takes up a third of your screen.