GCHQ Spy Agency Given Illegal Access To Citizens' Data (ft.com)

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GCHQ Spy Agency Given Illegal Access To Citizens' Data (ft.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @02:40AM from the closer-look dept.

The British government broke the law by allowing spy agencies to amass data on UK citizens without proper oversight from the Foreign Office, an independent tribunal has ruled. From a report: GCHQ, the UK's electronic surveillance agency, was given vastly increased powers to obtain and analyze citizens' data after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001, on the condition that it agreed to strict oversight from the foreign secretary. But according to the Investigatory Powers Tribunal, an independent court that was set up by the government to investigate unlawful intrusion by public bodies in the UK, the Foreign Office on several occasions gave GCHQ an effective "carte blanche" to demand data from telecoms and internet companies [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source], which could include visited websites, location information and email contacts. In a judgment published on Monday, the tribunal said: "In cases in which ... the foreign secretary made a general direction which applied to all communications through the networks operated by the [communications service provider], there had been an unlawful delegation of the power. "The lack of legal control on the discretion of [GCHQ] is compounded in those cases where the specific requirement was not communicated in writing."

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Is it really illegal though? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 02:46 · Score: 0

US has modelled their surveillance state after the UK's; I'd imagine then that the UK has perfected this, and therefore not illegal. After all, you don't have freedom of the press in the UK. So, honestly if you don't have that you cannot reliably think that you have any other "privacy" after all? Right? Considering how many CCTVs are in London, it's a wonder there isn't an Orwellian book based on the UK.
1. Re:Is it really illegal though? by bobbied · 2018-07-24 02:52 · Score: 1
  
  Considering how many CCTVs are in London, it's a wonder there isn't an Orwellian book based on the UK.
  There is, it was written by George Orwell... "1984" is the title..
  Oh wait, you where making sort of a joke, right?
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
2. Re:Is it really illegal though? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 03:13 · Score: 0
  
  Is it actually modelled after the UK though? I've read the book and I didn't see any hints it was targeting the UK.
3. Re:Is it really illegal though? by AHuxley · 2018-07-24 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  The UK listened to the world since radio begun. Their own empire. Then everything into and out of UK, Ireland. Ireland to/from the USA.
  The first communications satellites.
  The legal powers and collect it all ability was always a given in the UK.
  What set the UK system part from the US system was the UK was aware it could never tell anyone.
  No lawyers, police, telco, politics, media to talk of methods. The UK stayed secure as its mil never allowed police to see raw product.
  That kept anyone outside the UK mil and GCHQ from ever knowing full domestic collection methods for decades.
  
  No amount of cash, cults, faith groups, human rights lawyers, police could ever work their way back to a mil grade domestic collection method in the UK.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
4. Re:Is it really illegal though? by AHuxley · 2018-07-24 03:53 · Score: 1
  
  1984 was the book of how to run and keep an empire.
  The US had the money to buy computers in the 1950's and for the next decades.
  The UK had the global collection methods on land the USA needed after ww2.
  The UK did not have the money needed to build its own spy sats, subs, super computers, do collect it all, spy on everything in Ireland, spy on the world. Design and build its own nuclear weapons.
  Empire and UK bases got traded for advanced US computing power.
  
  For the GCHQ its was the quality of translators for any new war, the security, global collection, location to collect from.
  
  The other change for the USA was not to have duplication in the way the US Army and Navy did collection into the 1930's.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
5. Re: Is it really illegal though? by Type44Q · 2018-07-24 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  ...the UK has perfected this, and therefore not illegal
  If your mother told you that you weren't fucking retarded, she lied... but I'm reasonably sure it was only because she loved you.
6. Re: Is it really illegal though? by Type44Q · 2018-07-24 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  Oh wait, you where making sort of a joke, right?
  The parent has already demonstrated far too low of a cognitive threshold to even understand what you just typed.
Uh oh... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 02:48 · Score: 3, Funny

This could get ugly...someone might actually get a warning not to do it again! Or even worse...a verbal dressing down and then a warning not to do it again!
1. Re:Uh oh... by infolation · 2018-07-24 02:56 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  This could get ugly...someone might actually get a warning not to do it again!
  
  Even less than that. I prefer The Register's way of putting it:
  
  UK spies broke law for 15 years, but what can you do? shrugs judge. Appeal against my latest judgment? Oh wait, you can't!
2. Re:Uh oh... by Mashiki · 2018-07-24 03:00 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Empire to one side of the world to the other where the sun never sets. Manages to piss it all away in a generation and a half, and oppresses their own subjects(not citizens of course), harder then under the monarchy. Sure makes you wonder why people haven't uniformly snapped yet.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
3. Re:Uh oh... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 03:06 · Score: 0
  
  Probably because they've been completely disarmed by their government and pretty much can do nothing anyway.
4. Re:Uh oh... by AmiMoJo · 2018-07-24 03:19 · Score: 2
  
  At least now when the police try to imply that using a VPN is evidence of criminal activity you can point out that it's self defence against the criminals they failed to stop.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
5. Re:Uh oh... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 11:06 · Score: 0
  
  At least now when the police try to imply that using a VPN is evidence of criminal activity you can point out that it's self defence against the criminals they failed to stop.
  Yeah, right. The only thing that may change in your arrest and prosecution if you try "street-lawyering" them if they decide to arrest you, is that they'll make certain to give you a couple good kidney-punches while they tazer & beat you so you'll piss blood for a week just as a reminder. The decision to arrest on something like that was made downtown before the officers/agents left to arrest you. There's not a damned thing you could conceivably say to change that. Vertically or horizontally, easy or hard...your choice.
  IRL you keep your mouth shut and save it for the lawsuit, if one is possible. Even if a lawsuit or other legal recompense is not legally available you're still in a better position to seek other remedies if you're not recovering from a severe beating and possibly serving an extended prison sentence because of the additional "resisting" charges sure to be added. Or worse, one of them could be a nervous-Nelly and "fear for their life" over something mostly in their head and just end your life.
6. Re:Uh oh... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 12:18 · Score: 0
  
  Two World Wars on your doorstep will generally bankrupt most countries that have to defend an empire. I see that without even owning an empire the US is bankrupting itself with wars. Go figure.
7. Re:Uh oh... by AmiMoJo · 2018-07-24 20:10 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure we "pissed away" our empire so much as stopped subjugating the people whose countries we invaded...
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
8. Re:Uh oh... by Mashiki · 2018-07-25 00:39 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure we "pissed away" our empire so much as stopped subjugating the people whose countries we invaded...
  They pissed it away. If you can't figure out how or why, then you have less understanding of the commonwealth then someone who was never born there.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
9. Re:Uh oh... by eaglesrule · 2018-07-25 05:35 · Score: 1
  
  ...and now reserve oppression only for those who attempt to stand in the way of the systematic self destruction of your once proud nation and culture.
  Such as the persecution of a certain activist journalist, and those that also express unapproved opinions on Twitter and Facebook.
10. Re:Uh oh... by Agripa · 2018-07-27 11:13 · Score: 1
  
  Or a warning not to get caught again.
And then NOTHING happened by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 02:49 · Score: 0

Oh noes! A spy agency illegally did spy stuff and got busted. Seen this movie before. Absolutely nothing will come from this ruling.
Trust? by hduff · 2018-07-24 02:49 · Score: 1

"You can trust us. We're the Government and we're just here to help you."

--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
1. Re:Trust? by bobbied · 2018-07-24 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  "You can trust us. We're the Government and we're just here to help you."
  Sarcasm that's true, even in socialist states that are worse than the UK.
  "Hello Comrade... I'm with the KGB and I'm here to collect what I need from you... " or "Mr. Chow, I'm Mr. Ping, I'm from the regional office and I'm here to take what you have for the good of the country and tell you must move...." Or... "Mr Moon, Dear Leader demands you hand over that food for his appetizer tray even though you will starve. If you don't smile about it, you will be marched in front of the AA battery for target practice."
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Expect this. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 02:52 · Score: 0

It's terrible, but it will only get worse, people seem to have no issue giving their freedom away. Or simply not caring enough to fight for them.
And the punishement will be? by TheCastro1689 · 2018-07-24 02:53 · Score: 1

These kinds of rulings go nowhere, or some token punishment that doesn't matter is given out followed by the agency doing the exact same thing only a new law or slight adjustment makes it "legal".
1. Re:And the punishement will be? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 04:15 · Score: -1
  
  Should be execution by firing squad.
SHOCKED! by Mashiki · 2018-07-24 02:54 · Score: 0

Shocked I say dear chap! Maybe about time to look at what's going on around you dear brits, on the upside you're doing a seriously bang-up job on showing everyone else the future. Now toddle on and get some fish and chips in newspaper like a good lad. And ignore that there's a systemic problem with both the policing at the local and federal level that you need to clean up.
And so, who knew that a gigantic surveillance state wouldn't turn around and abuse these powers at all. Now all they've got to do is get people to inform on each other, and the rise of the STASI will be complete again. And in 40 years, we'll be seeing the archives of the GCHQ with large swaths destroyed, along with the secret prison information missing because of it. The surveillance is there, the method to inform and spy deeply is there(social media), the only thing really missing is the rewards for reporting on your neighbors and of course. Knowing of course that the government is already creating a list of subversive acts in case you step out of line.

--
Om, nomnomnom...
1. Re:SHOCKED! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  There is no federal in the UK you dumb fucking paedophile.
  The only reason you're spinning good oversight and accountability of intelligence services as we have here as a problem is because you're upset they fucking caught you raping children.
  Since when the fuck is real actual monitoring and accountability and public shaming of the intelligence services when they do wrong better than every other fucking country in the world that just keeps it quiet?
  If you think the UK holding intelligence services to account and calling out wrongdoing somehow makes the UK a police state then maybe Russia has a spot for you in their anti-reality nation?
2. Re:SHOCKED! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  Whoa! Is it really fare to call me a paedophile? I mean I had no way of knowing your mother was an under age lil bitch just like her offspring.
3. Re:SHOCKED! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 17:42 · Score: 0
  
  HI Elon Musk.
Only one side has to play by the rules. by ErikTheRed · 2018-07-24 02:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

What do you call a government where only the proles have to obey the "laws?" Totalitarian? Yeah, I think that's it. Can we please now stop pretending our governments are in any way, shape, or form represent the peoplpe?

--

Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
1. Re:Only one side has to play by the rules. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 03:40 · Score: -1
  
  What do you call a government where only the proles have to obey the "laws?" Totalitarian? Yeah, I think that's it. Can we please now stop pretending our governments are in any way, shape, or form represent the peoplpe?
  Look at the excuses being made to defend this kind of crap, too:
  1. Hillary! hires Fusion GPS to work with ex-Brit spy to write up bullshit likely spoon-fed from Russia about Trump
  2. Fusion GPS feeds this fake dossier to State Dept
  3. State Dept feeds fake dossier to CIA director John Brennan
  4. Brennan feeds fake dossier to Senator Dingy Harry Reid
  5. Reid feeds fake dossier to James Comey
  6. James Comey starts "counterintelligence investigation" (aka "spying") on Trump.
  7. DOJ lies to FISA court to get FISA warrants
  8. Hillary! loses the election, Democrats involved in totalitarian-style abuse of US intelligence apparatus SHIT BRICKS
  9. TRUMP COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA!!!!!!! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!!!
  Step 9 fools a lot of idiots who refuse to see 1-8 despite all the actual fucking evidence.
  Said idiots ARE A MORTAL THREAT TO THE SURVIVAL OF DEMOCRACY BECAUSE THEY WILL EXCUSE ANY ABUSE OF POWER THEY LIKE.
2. Re: Only one side has to play by the rules. by Type44Q · 2018-07-24 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Can we please now stop pretending our governments are in any way, shape, or form represent the peoplpe?
  Be careful what you wish for; the day we can no longer pretend is the day we have to admit we've conpleted our return to feudalism.
3. Re: Only one side has to play by the rules. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 07:55 · Score: 0
  
  We pretty much have. People get locked into the monetary system to keep them running on that hamster wheel by the time they graduate and then you're stuck playing whatever reindeer games the government decides you need to play until you die. There's the off chance you could make enough money to bribe them into allowing you a modicum of freedom, but the smoke and mirrors are awfully hard to see around, even for the big money people, until they actually get their hands directly into a government official's pocket.
  We're fucked. And way too many people don't see it yet.
4. Re:Only one side has to play by the rules. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 16:52 · Score: 0
  
  What do you call a government where only the proles have to obey the "laws?" Totalitarian? Yeah, I think that's it. Can we please now stop pretending our governments are in any way, shape, or form represent the peoplpe?
  What? No. This merely describes a class system. A totalitarian government is one which has no check on its power and is free to regulate all human activity it feasibly can.
  Also, I don't know how much pretense there really is here. I suspect most people believe that they are being represented. And why should those who are pretending stop? They're either afraid of speaking their mind and being tagged as radicals or they are afraid of the responsibility a free society would entail.
Yes, but it's the Russians by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 02:54 · Score: -1

Bet you thought I was gonna say, The Russians are being cockholstered by Trump! didn't you! Well I did, didn't I!
Nobody is surprised by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 02:57 · Score: 0

And the performance bonuses of incompentent secretaries and their advisors - untouched, and their references for future positions, not damaged by incompetence. Anyone going to be demoted or loose their job?
As schemed, meaningless unenforcable assurances.Just send lots of fake SMS's that look important enough to be investigated.Mention politicians by name, drug references, drop off points, cells, and offshore renumeration. Nothing like creating misunderstandings.
Well I'm shocked, Shocked I say.... by bobbied · 2018-07-24 03:04 · Score: 0

"Well I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say that a spy agency is spying"...
"The information you collected is here sir!"
"Thank You."
"Now round up the usual suspects! I've got some interrogations to do."

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Joke?! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 03:06 · Score: -1

GP was stating fact.
Orwell was a manual and policy writer for the UK years ago. The UK has always had this surveillance. They had to...see Ahmed Goldberg is actively trying to undermine the UK, the West and freedom. And the only way to keep our freedoms is to be spied upon - and it's not illegal.
Same here in the USA. And right now we have what? five or six active military activities going on right now - wars where we're involved. See, we've always been at war with Eurasia.
And I think it's great that we're over there fighting for Freedom, keeping the Peace - War is the way to Peace and tranquility.
And on that note, to pay for it all, we need to cut taxes because cutting taxes raises government revenues and if we cut taxes to zero, then we'll have a chance to pay for Peace! And as long as we're at war, we'll be at Peace!
-Yours,
Graduate of (re) education camp Class of 1984.
The Honorable Ronald Reagan, President.
And when UK gets a puppet... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 03:39 · Score: 0

All that data will be used to ensure only the puppets people get elected. Good guys always think they're doing the good thing, it's true of Trumps followers too, they think they are doing the best for America, that allies and trading partners are screwing them over, and only Russia is treating them right.
Here the people doing the spying are telling themselves they're the good guys protecting UK from its own citizens.
1. Re:And when UK gets a puppet... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 04:57 · Score: 0
  
  All that data will be used to ensure only the puppets people get elected. Good guys always think they're doing the good thing, it's true of Trumps followers too, they think they are doing the best for America, that allies and trading partners are screwing them over, and only Russia is treating them right.
  Here the people doing the spying are telling themselves they're the good guys protecting UK from its own citizens.
  Good thing you are not a good guy! I'm sure you purposefully do the wrong thing just to avoid being the good guy that gets it wrong.
2. Re:And when UK gets a puppet... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 17:27 · Score: 0
  
  All that data will be used to ensure only the puppets people get elected. Good guys always think they're doing the good thing, it's true of Trumps followers too, they think they are doing the best for America, that allies and trading partners are screwing them over, and only Russia is treating them right.
  Here the people doing the spying are telling themselves they're the good guys protecting UK from its own citizens.
  A fair point. I do think this reflects a fundamental part of human psychology and that only very few anomalies feel no guilt/remorse or enjoy the sensation (e.g. George Soros). You're right, Trump's followers clearly demonstrate this kind of rationalization, and perhaps this is particularly evident because wrongdoing is so close to the surface. Ironically, the left wing in the US is another great example, with the offered rationalizations particularly fragile in the light of logic.
  My key problem with the surveillance is that it clearly empowers the most powerful people in the country. It exacerbates the imbalance of power in a way which is ultimately unsustainable and will eventually lead to a period of unrest, shredding the social fabric, and precipitating violence and relative poverty.
now it's totally legit by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 04:15 · Score: 0

what this doesn't mention is that they changed the law in (i think?) 2010, so that now they can do that and not have to worry the sheep about it.
Law is useless by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 04:46 · Score: 0

A law with no enforcement has no practical outcome. This is contrary to enforcement with no law.
US+UK BFF by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 05:07 · Score: -1

Thank you for being a friend Traveled down a road and back again Your heart is true, you're a pal and a confidant
I'm not ashamed to say I hope it always will stay this way My hat is off, won't you stand up and take a bow
And if you threw a party Invited everyone you knew Well, you would see the biggest gift would be from me And the card attached would say
Thank you for being a friend Thank you for being a friend Thank you for being a friend Thank you for being a friend
If it's a car you lack I'd surely buy you a Cadillac Whatever you need any time of the day or night
I'm not ashamed to say I hope it always will stay this way My hat is off, won't you stand up and take a bow
And when we both get older With walking canes and hair of gray Have no fear even though it's hard to hear I will stand here close and say
Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you)
Let me tell you about a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you)
And when we die and float away Into the night the Milky Way You'll hear me call as we ascend I'll say your name then once again
Thank you for being a
Thank you for being a friend (I want to thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I want to thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I want to thank you) Thank you for being a friend People, let me tell you about a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you) Thank you for being a friend
Whoa, tell you about a friend (thank you right now, for being a friend) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna tell you right now, and tell you again) Thank you for being a friend (I wanna thank you, thank you, for being a friend) Thank you for being a friend
Virtue signalling at its worst by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 06:56 · Score: 0

Right, because having an armed population clearly stops government from doing bad shit. *eyeroll*
1. Re:Virtue signalling at its worst by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 07:15 · Score: 0
  
  It sure worked to stop the UK once.
  *eyeroll*
  *EYEROLL*
  *E*
  *Y*
  *E*
  *R*
  *O*
  *L*
  *L*
  #niceguys use *eyeroll*
2. Re:Virtue signalling at its worst by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-24 10:42 · Score: 0
  
  That's the attitude. Bring back the guillotine.