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NASA's Space-Suit Drama Could Delay Our Trip To the Moon (thedailybeast.com)
Zorro quotes a report from The Daily Beast: After years of planning, NASA is finally launching a new effort to send astronauts back to the moon and then onward to Mars. But one important piece of technology is missing: a new space suit. Fifty-three years after astronaut Ed White stepped outside his Gemini 4 capsule on the first-ever spacewalk for an American, NASA is stuck using decades-old suits that critics say are too old, too bulky, too rigid, and too few in number for America's new era of space exploration.
Astronauts could need as many as three different kinds of space suits for a single mission. NASA has plenty of flight-suit options, but its extravehicular activity or EVA suits are old and dwindling in number. And the agency doesn't have any suits specifically for surface missions. Time is running out to make up the space suit shortfalls. NASA plans to launch Exploration Mission 1, the first test of Orion and its heavy rocket, as early as 2020. The Lunar Gateway station could be ready for use five or six years later. Despite these looming deadlines, NASA "remains years away from having a flight-ready space suit... suitable for use on future exploration missions," the agency's inspector general warned in a 2017 audit.
Astronauts could need as many as three different kinds of space suits for a single mission. NASA has plenty of flight-suit options, but its extravehicular activity or EVA suits are old and dwindling in number. And the agency doesn't have any suits specifically for surface missions. Time is running out to make up the space suit shortfalls. NASA plans to launch Exploration Mission 1, the first test of Orion and its heavy rocket, as early as 2020. The Lunar Gateway station could be ready for use five or six years later. Despite these looming deadlines, NASA "remains years away from having a flight-ready space suit... suitable for use on future exploration missions," the agency's inspector general warned in a 2017 audit.
The people pushing manned space are morons and tourist mongers. There is nowhere to go and no reason to send human petri dishes. This is beyond retarded. People who don't understand the scales involved romanticize the idea.
If "mankind" is going to go far places and do things, robots are going there first to lay the groundwork. Anything else is just space-force stable genius shit, with Virgin Galactic trying to sell you quarter-million dollar roller coaster rides.
If what NASA currently has isn't good enough, how about buying from the Europeans, Russians or Chinese? They should have suitable suits for extravehicular activity.
Delaying the mission seems worse than having to partially rely on foreign technology.
Suits for surface missions might be a problem, as no one has done such missions recently. But a cooperation with the Chinese who are planning their own mission to the moon might work.
Apparently they do, I well remember a few years ago they did a big media splash about a 'design project' wanting public input, mostly on what colour and fashion style they should be.
Perhaps if they had spent just a little more time designing an actual space suit, and less time on PR/Public Image, then they may have one.
Here we go, 2014 (a random story pre, and the results post)..
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/179157-nasa-shows-off-next-generation-z-2-spacesuits-makes-us-question-its-fashion-sense
https://www.nasa.gov/content/nasa-s-next-prototype-spacesuit-has-a-brand-new-look-and-it-s-all-thanks-to-you
I'm no moon landing conspiracy theorist but the combination of losing the Saturn blue prints and not having a viable ship to get to the moon and not having space suits that can allow a person to survive on the moon a pretty strong factors to consider.
Someone else might go to the moon but it won't be NASA
What, are all of Slashdot going to schlep up to the lunar surface? Have we been selected by some secret process?
Don't get me wrong, if you are offering a ticket, I'd be happy to squeeze it in to my busy schedule.
But if not, why would some NASA employees going to the moon (and good luck to them) be the same as going ourselves?
Come on. How long did it take to design and fabricate the Apollo moon suits?
Coincidentally, down in the "Related Links" I see: "We're All Getting Dumber, Says Science".
Wants to sell some space suits...
i.e. design by committee.... and there is no economy of scale here, there is no scale.
Worse, if it includes the Russians, they're busy shooting missiles at US troop positions in Syria, (and hacking US elections), so they're not exactly reliable partners. You maybe don't want any hi-tech designs going to a country firing missiles at troops:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-16/russia-attacked-u-s-troops-in-syria
After it previously saying it would shoot down US planes that bomb Assad chemical warfare plants:
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-attack-us-plane-bombing-syria-military-627241
I know the current lie from Trump is 'cooperate' in Syria, cooperating with the enemy that attacks your army, is called treason.
TFS fails to mention that we've spent a giant pile of money on next generation EVA suits already, and what's missing is... A mission to build the suits for.
NASA has no manned Mars mission scheduled, no manned Moon mission scheduled, and no capability to put men in orbit. Through that lens saying spacesuits are going to delay our moon trip is 9% dumb.
Our next major manned spaceflight objective beyond ISS is an orbit around the moon and the "Deep space gateway", another space station that will hoover up the majority of NASA's budget for a generation.
Sooo... the PR NASA is spewing out all this bullshit for some reason, while the highly advanced and very active military and corporate and international space programs we are *not* hearing about continue to function and operate on the daily?
JUST ANOTHER DAY IN AMERICAN MEDIA
EH
No hurry, the congressional porkbarrel express isn't going anywhere soon. They've got plenty of time to develop and manufacture a new suit design. There'll be a billionaire on the moon before another NASA astronaut.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Just buy SpaceX's suits, or pay them to develop one if the existing ones don't meet the requirements. I bet it would cost 1/1000 of NASA's existing budget projections.
I came to the datacenter drunk with a fake ID, don't you want to be just like me?
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I'm no moon landing conspiracy theorist but the combination of losing the Saturn blue prints
Evidently you are a moon landing conspiracy theorist because you could have easily verified that we still have the blue prints for the Saturn V as well as the Rocketdyne F1 engines used in the Saturn V. That isn't the problem with rebuilding them though. Here is a video explaining why we cannot simply remake the Rocketdyne F1 engines in their original glory. Short version is that the blue prints don't record a lot of important details about HOW these were actually fabricated. Each engine was custom made by hand by skilled individuals who didn't record every detail about how they did what they did. And even if they had, we don't make things the same way today so the design doesn't really make any sense to replicate anymore.
and not having a viable ship to get to the moon and not having space suits that can allow a person to survive on the moon a pretty strong factors to consider.
There is an example of the ship used to get to the moon in the Smithsonian museum as well as the space suits actually used. Furthermore all the hardware is still there on the moon to be inspected if you care to get close enough to look for yourself.
Think about it, we all live in a place that can burn down at any moment. Yet, none of us own blast furnace suits to protect us from the fire. We just try to leave where the fire is at.
Speak for yourself. I keep a portable, unfoldable fire shelter in my car.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
We've got about a decade to come up with space suits for NASA.
First of all, contrary to this summary they won't even consider launching SLS until 2021, and that's being generous since we're talking about NASA.
Secondly, 2021 is only the first version of SLS, not the one that could maybe go to Mars. They haven't even designed that version yet.
As a matter of a fact, we probably have two decades.
So don't worry about it.
Once you have a spacesuit, just go outside (on Earth), and take a walk in the nearest park. Everybody knows that when you do that you will be sure to intercept a distress signal from space. Then you will be kidnapped by an ugly alien and taken to his evil base on Pluto. Once there, your mission would be to go outside in your fancy space suit and activate a transmitter. As soon as you do, the good aliens will show up, kill the bad alien, and take you to another galaxy. There you'll have to explain why humans should not be exterminated. If you succeed in this mission, you will return to Earth in a glorious homecoming.
So just to expand what you said, yes it happens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
Just ask him
Because, well, who else?
First, NASA is not likely to be the primary entity running the next moon mission. They will participate, but that will be done by private enterprise.
Second, of all of the blockers in the way to a lunar mission, a lunar surface suit is smaller in magnitude than things like a lunar lander, which nobody has at the moment. Consider, for example, a SpaceX mission to the moon. The Dragon 2 capsule is not capable of landing and returning on its own. They would need a vehicle for the Dragon 2 to sit on top of. And the Falcon 9 stages are not appropriate, because they are not cryogenic - they don't work when exposed to cold for more than a few hours.
SpaceX BFR still has a lot of risk and is a long way away. ULA is developing a cryogenic stage, but that's also a long way away.
Bruce Perens.
The last interesting thing that NASA will do is launch the James Web Telescope....eventually. Every new president will just kill his predecessors projects until NASA doesn't actually ever have to accomplish anything at all. They get a new mission, they get insufficient money, they make token efforts, the project is cancelled, and the cycle repeats. I give up on them. The only people with the will-power and balls to do anything are the billionaires. And as much money as they have, they don't have the resources of the government so they'll probably end up killing people accomplishing their goals...but they'll at least be more successful than the National Aeronautics and Space Moneypit.
Wasn't NASA working on a new suit called the "Z" Suit?
They've got plenty of time. SLS was supposed to launch in 2017. After a series of delays, it was supposed to launch in 2020. Now that date is said to be "low confidence". The idea that we'll have an operational space station in lunar orbit in 2025 is kind of a bit unrealistic right now.
So they can delay and delay returning to the Moon indefinitely, at this rate. What an absolute load of bollocks it is. They never went to the Moon the first time - quite obviously - since they are making out that it's just SO incredibly difficult to 'go back', with excuse after excuse. Just look at the technology that existed in the 1960s, and yet they claim they can't go to the Moon today?
This phenomenal six-part documentary series by the Science Channel, now available on YouTube and Daily Motion, interviews many engineers who worked on Apollo. There is one episode dedicated to the space suit, for which the contract was awarded to none other than Playtex.
First, NASA is not likely to be the primary entity running the next moon mission. They will participate, but that will be done by private enterprise.
Really? What private enterprise is going to do it and where is the profit motive for them? No profit motive = no private enterprise funding unless you have someone as crazy as Elon Musk who controls a private company and doesn't have to care about profits. Until you can establish a profit motive and quantify the risks private enterprise is going to sit this one out.
Second, of all of the blockers in the way to a lunar mission, a lunar surface suit is smaller in magnitude than things like a lunar lander, which nobody has at the moment.
Lunar lander, human rated launch vehicle, transport capsule, mission equipment, etc. There is no scheduled mission to the moon nor is there any mission parameters to design this stuff around nor is there much in the way of funding adequate to make it happen in the near future. We aren't going to see boots on the moon for quite a long time just like we haven't seen them for over 45 years since our last go at it. I could see a country like China doing it for national pride but it won't happen for at least another decade and probably much longer given current circumstances.
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No.. My space agency is ESA and they are on track for the moon with China.
http://pacificspaceflight.com could probably make a few extra if NASA is in need
Fun fact: The suits used during the Apollo program were made by ILC Dover, which was a branch of the International Latex Corporation.....which was originally famous for making Playtex bras and girdles.
Does this mean that it was "one small step for (trans) man"? ;-)
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
If these "ancient suits" are so unusable how have people been using them in space in the ISS?????? For decades at that!!!!
Biased and misleading fud.
Fascinating story overall, a book called Space Gear mentioned when the contract was finally awarded for the Apollo EVA suit, the ILC guy at a dinner party threw the prototype suit in the fire place in front of the NASA guy, "now you know how I really feel the way we were treated" (or something like that). Since then there have been documentaries that show the old ladies (ILC selected the best seamstresses for this group) sewing the spacesuits (and yes they too wanted to walk the surface of the moon). ILC manager recalls watching Neil and Buzz on the lunar surface thinking, "finish up! finish up! get back into the LM!" because he knew all the things that could fail on the suit. These suits are not exactly indestructible.
There was a program at NASA Ames of a hardsuit design, not bulky with many flexible joints and with higher than 5 psi pressure so reduce the 4-hour prebreath time. John Young wrote in his bio book about spacesuit designs of various ideas but NASA kept with its "monster suit."
Overall maybe need someone with the technical, managerial, leadership talent to head up a spacesuit design. Be able to harness resources and battle the bureaucracy for a usable space suit. But forget about Mars (it will always be 20 years into the future a Mars EVA suit will be needed).
mfwright@batnet.com
You aint going nowhere but to war with China, Iran, and Russia.
The old ones might work on set but not on the moon.
Speak for yourself. I keep a portable, unfoldable fire shelter in my car.
Too many wet years followed by a dry year. Basically you'd be safer if you lived in drought conditions all the time.
"Too many wet years followed by a dry year. Basically you'd be safer if you lived in drought conditions all the time."
I'd be safer if people didn't live in the middle of forests, so that we could let them go through natural burn cycles necessary for forest health. Some of the first laws on the books in California outlawed the practice of setting such fires, which the natives did as a form of land management. The house I lived in for the last eleven years just burned down a week ago in the carder fire, which was apparently caused by the illegally trailer-camping guy across the street. Luckily, I moved out two months ago. Now I live in a clearing in a redwood forest, with substantial flammable undergrowth...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Quite like this comment. I think we can reasonable expect delays in the mission, more than one even.
It's not just manned missions that get delayed. JWST? Delays upon delays. Hubble? Delayed, and then they found the misshapen mirror in orbit, causing yet more delays. I could go on but that makes the point.
Now imagine this. The Moon Mission goes ahead and NASA has to use the old suits, the ones deemed "too rigid, out of date, and too few". They build a few more as needed, then go to the Moon and let's say the suits are indeed inadequate.
You think that won't get corrected? Post-haste? It will quickly become a top priority to get better suits, even if that hadn't happened previously. In fact given the Z-suits, previously announced in 2014, I think we can guess that new suits are already in the pipeline.
The space suits problem can and will be fixed. Nor am I minimizing the effort required to build new generation suits; I'm just saying that adding new suits to an existing space program, does not fundamentally alter the space program. You take the old suits if you have to and you take the new suits when they are available. You are swapping one space item for a new-gen functional equivalent. Does it require more space? No. Does it require more fuel? No. Do the new suits make excursions safer/longer/more capable? Yes, which provides the incentive to build the new suits.
When NASA tries to design things, they get told which States, and sometimes specific companies they have to go with to source the part.
This is a the whim of the government and the many backdoor deals to get various pieces of legislation passed. You support my bill, I'll make sure that part of NASA's X project will be made in your election district.
This causes all sorts of budget problems.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.