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Microfilm Lasts Half a Millennium (theatlantic.com)

Millions of publications -- not to mention spy documents -- can be read on microfilm machines. But people still see these devices as outmoded and unappealing. From a report: I recently acquired a decommissioned microfilm reader. My university bought the reader for $16,000 in 1998, but its value has depreciated to $0 in their official bookkeeping records. Machines like it played a central role in both research and secret-agent tasks of the last century. But this one had become an embarrassment. The bureaucrats wouldn't let me store the reader in a laboratory that also houses a multimillion-dollar information-display system. They made me promise to "make sure no VIPs ever see it there." After lots of paperwork and negotiation, I finally had to transport the machine myself. Unlike a computer -- even an old one -- it was heavy and ungainly. It would not fit into a car, and it could not be carried by two people for more than a few feet. Even moving the thing was an embarrassment. No one wanted it, but no one wanted me to have it around either.

And yet the microfilm machine is still widely used. It has centuries of lasting power ahead of it, and new models are still being manufactured. It's a shame that no intrigue will greet their arrival, because these machines continue to prove essential for preserving and accessing archival materials. [...] Microfilm's decline intensified with the development of optical-character-recognition (OCR) technology. Initially used to search microfilm in the 1930s, Emanuel Goldberg designed a system that could read characters on film and translate them into telegraph code.
Further reading: 'You Had to Be There': As Technologies Change Ever Faster, the Knowledge of Obsolete Things Becomes Ever Sweeter.

94 comments

  1. You had to be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lingerie catalogs before the internet.

    1. Re:You had to be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was all over them.

    2. Re:You had to be there by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Lingerie catalogs before the internet.

      Sears Roebuck, ftw.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:You had to be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, something probably was. On to Nat Geo...

  2. Microfilm might last a millenium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but a First Post lives forever

    bonjour, m'ladies

    (tips fedora knowingly)

    1. Re: Microfilm might last a millenium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe one day you will find out.

  3. A rock and a chisel would last longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So would the message you could hammer out. I will miss them fondly.

  4. Keep the media, upgrade the reader by MDMurphy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the film will last 500 years, then don't get rid of it. But if the reader takes several people to move then it seems suitable for an upgrade. A transport mechanism for the film along with a camera to display the film on a computer or monitor would seem to be the way to go. It also wouldn't seem to to be too hard to have the reader be able to count frames, making quick access to go forward or back semi-automated.

    1. Re:Keep the media, upgrade the reader by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Digital microfilm readers are a thing, and about the size and weight of a dinner plate.

      An empty one.

    2. Re:Keep the media, upgrade the reader by g01d4 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Digital microfilm readers are a thing.

      Here's a link.

    3. Re:Keep the media, upgrade the reader by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can read microfilm using a cell phone with a microscope lens attachment. All you need is some rack mechanism to let you precisely scroll the film left/right, and move the camera up/down across the film. I'm not sure why this guy insisted on salvaging an outdated reader. Those were bulky in order to avoid the expense of a an electronic camera sensor (which could cost millions of dollars at the time) and built-in monitor. Neither of those are expensive anymore.

    4. Re:Keep the media, upgrade the reader by mikael · · Score: 1

      The microfilm readers that my university had in the library weren't too different from a gaming monitor today. There was a little tray at the bottom under the middle of the screen. You put the microfilm sheet in there, then moved around a lever that slid that tray around so that the selected page was projected up into the screen.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    5. Re: Keep the media, upgrade the reader by chipperdog · · Score: 1

      Make 3D printer models for a reader!

    6. Re: Keep the media, upgrade the reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Probably because the reader will outlast any extant smartphone, and can actually be maintained.

    7. Re:Keep the media, upgrade the reader by baegucb · · Score: 2

      There is a slight difference between microfilm and microfiche. Microfilm is on a spool. You are describing microfiche, which on a sheet. I used to, on occasion, make that crap 40 years ago. Messy process with all the photographic chemicals.

    8. Re: Keep the media, upgrade the reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congrats, you just described every microfiche reader ever built.

    9. Re: Keep the media, upgrade the reader by jwhyche · · Score: 3

      Actually, up grade the media too. I watched a documentary how they are preserving documents on etched sapphire. Supposed to have a shelf life in the billions of years.

      I was expecting it to be a digital disk, basically a big ass cdrom. I was surprised when it was explained that it was basically ordinary microfilm process. The reason was excellent too. Basically, if civilization blew itself back to the stone age, we could read the disks with a basic magnifying glass.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
  5. Microfilm reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know WTF machine you used that it required two people to move and couldn't fit into a car.

    Even as far back as the early 70's the viewers were slightly larger than a Mac of the time or a small 13" TV.

    1. Re:Microfilm reader by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fools in this case were obviously up-sold to the largest most fancy model.

      Its a projector. These fools picked up a 500lb projector for "$16,000 in 1998." When its put like that, there doesnt seem to be much of a story here. Its more of a lesson.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re: Microfilm reader by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      It probably ALSO includes a photographic printer (for high-res, high-quality copies), which would increase the complexity and weight quite a bit. Even if it did Kodak-style B&W "activator" development, the print path would have been pretty complex since the goal was "push-button, print-comes-out" simplicity for users.

      I remember those readers... even back in the early 90s, my university charged $1.00/page to print microfilm & microfiche, back when normal copiers were 10c-25c/page (sometimes, 5c-9c if you had a high-value copycard). The only bright spot was that you could sometimes fit 2 pages on one print (microfilm) or 2x2 pages (microfiche) since the prints themselves were so high-resolution.

    3. Re: Microfilm reader by Rockoon · · Score: 0

      It probably ALSO includes a photographic printer (for high-res, high-quality copies)

      OK I'm with you

      which would increase the complexity and weight quite a bit.

      oh.. on second thought... not with you at all. We are talking about a purchase in 1998, not 1978. The complexity of printers had already been reduced to being disposable cartridge.

      What may be on their grossly expensive device is a way to force people to pay for their copies. A slot for quarters, a bill reader, etc. Now we are talking about weight because we are talking about security. I imagine many of the public libraries in the country have/had a film reader like this.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re: Microfilm reader by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      oh.. on second thought... not with you at all. We are talking about a purchase in 1998, not 1978. The complexity of printers had already been reduced to being disposable cartridge.

      What may be on their grossly expensive device is a way to force people to pay for their copies. A slot for quarters, a bill reader, etc. Now we are talking about weight because we are talking about security. I imagine many of the public libraries in the country have/had a film reader like this.

      Microfilm/fiche printing is still an optical process - not a digital one. The viewer part itself is super light (the heaviest part is the optics and lenses), but the optical printer is basically an analog photocopier. And those things are generally heavy and you have to basically duplicate the entire optical path again (for viewing, the light shines below the film/fiche through the carrier and then a compound lens and mirror array project it onto the screen, making it very light. To print requires reversing the light path (and given the light source is expensive, there's usually only one so you have an array of mirrors to reverse the light so it shines from top to bottom onto a lens projecting onto the drum and the whole toner process within).

      My high school library was lucky - they only charged 10 cents per page. They subscribed to basically every magazine on the planet back then and it would come as a dump of fiche they had in drawers. They were nicely indexed - basically you could browse which magazine and issue you wanted, and it would point out which fiche you needed and even its coordinates. It was a nice dense way of storing lots of pages.

    5. Re: Microfilm reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These are optical devices, not digital ones. You arent going to get images to pop out on your hp laserjet.

  6. Readers don't last by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My former employer put all of its technical records on microfilm. The microfilm is good, but the readers have all died of age and neglect. The current executives didn't care (history started with them) so there is no budget for repair or replacement. That was one of many decisions that made retirement seem like a good idea.

  7. Bureaucrats by inking · · Score: 2

    It is all very romantic until you have to actually use one because some “bureaucrat” refuses to get his collection digitized and a task that would take twenty minutes on a computer takes up the whole afternoon—if you are lucky enough to work with well-organized data, that is.

    1. Re:Bureaucrats by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is all very romantic until you have to actually use one because some âoebureaucratâ refuses to get his collection digitized and a task that would take twenty minutes on a computer takes up the whole afternoonâ"if you are lucky enough to work with well-organized data, that is.

      That's what I'm thinking, if I had an actual microfilm it'd go through the scanner once, be stored as PDF on a HDD and go back into the vault permanently or at least until you lost your last "normal" backup. How many microfilms can you store on a 10TB HDD?

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Bureaucrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last place I worked at had scanners like this and these Kofax cards that connected to the readers that had a CCD camera. They would use software to identify fields on forms and translate the data into searchable data in document management software. In the event there was any question on the data, they could see an actual image of the microfiche or even pull the cartridge out of the vault for examination.

    3. Re:Bureaucrats by Strider- · · Score: 1

      How many microfilms can you store on a 10TB HDD?

      Will your 10TB HDD still be readable in 100 years?

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    4. Re:Bureaucrats by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      Probably. But who cares? The film is in the vault if the media ever gets lost. The film won't be readable in 100 years if it's in constant use.

    5. Re: Bureaucrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Probably

      I mean, not if it uses Helium or something else that leaks out at a predictable half life. All the latest hard drives have this particular programmed obsolesence as of a few years ago.

    6. Re:Bureaucrats by idji · · Score: 3, Funny

      I used a microfilm reader Saturday at my State Library. The Fast Forward scrolled 10 pages/second and the forward took 10 seconds to scroll one page. the speed control dial didn't work.
      It was fun and nostalgic and cool to show my teenage daughter 20th C tech but I would have preferred a PDF of the 500 pages on that reel. The documents were scribbled in 1836 and I will take months to transcribe them. I want to print them out on paper and transcribe when time comes.
      Some of the pages are very faint because whoever filmed them got some light settings wrong. Today we could rescan in full color and read them better.

    7. Re:Bureaucrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh, try like 10-15 years.

    8. Re:Bureaucrats by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      HDDs are probably not the best long term storage medium. The mechanical parts degrade, they are vulnerably to magnetic fields, and if they fail the chances of being able to fix them in a decade or more are low unless you have serious cash and equipment available. Even the data encoding format on the discs is proprietary so building your own reader will be tricky.

      BluRay is probably the best all round option for now. Archival grade BluRay is cheap and robust. No moving parts, no issues with magnets, the standard is open enough to be reproducible in 100 years although drives will probably still be around. And of course if one drive fails you can try another.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re: Bureaucrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The are vulnerable to magnetic fields". You are extremely enlikely to come across any magnetic fireld strong enough to hurt the data on an hdd. They are very difficult to bulk erase and require very specialized equipment. An audio tape degauser won't do it anymore.

    10. Re:Bureaucrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends what resolution you need.

  8. Bean counters ruin everything by optikos · · Score: 1

    If it depreciates to zero, then fill the landfill up more with it, according to the bean counters.

    1. Re:Bean counters ruin everything by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Informative

      It cant depreciate to zero until the lenses are sold. Amateur astronomers will drop a good chunk of change on their objective lenses.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Bean counters ruin everything by Kjella · · Score: 2

      It cant depreciate to zero until the lenses are sold. Amateur astronomers will drop a good chunk of change on their objective lenses.

      Deprecation is an accounting mechanism, not market value. Basically can I keep this as an asset on my balance sheet or to I have to write it off as an expense on my profit & loss. There are strict rules so that companies don't inflate their profits by over-valuing assets that are actually consumed/worn out over time like say furniture, office equipment, company cars etc. while "hidden assets" that are already written off are okay from an accounting perspective. For example presenting future income from long term contracts as assets is what lead to the Enron scandal. Though I'm not sure why you'd rush to throw it away as new expenses are new expenses.

      Three year cycle:
      Year 1: Cash: -$30k, Assets: +$20k, Expenses: $10k
      Year 2: Assets: -$10k, Expenses: $10k
      Year 3: Assets: -$10k, Expenses: $10k
      In total $30k spent, $30k written off so book value is now $0, average cost/year = $10k.

      Three year cycle stretched to five:
      Year 1: Cash: -$30k, Assets: +$20k, Expenses: $10k
      Year 2: Assets: -$10k, Expenses: $10k
      Year 3: Assets: -$10k, Expenses: $10k
      Year 4: 0
      Year 5: 0
      Average is now $30k/5 = $6k/year.

      If you can legally write it off over five years:
      Year 1: Cash: -$30k, Assets: +$24k, Expenses: $6k
      Year 2: Assets: -$6k, Expenses: $6k
      Year 3: Assets: -$6k, Expenses: $6k
      Year 4: Assets: -$6k, Expenses: $6k
      Year 5: Assets: -$6k, Expenses: $6k
      Still $6k/year, just now written off evenly.

      If you lie about it lasting five years:
      Year 1: Cash: -$30k, Assets: +$24k (inflated), Expenses: $6k (inflated)
      Year 2: Assets: -$6k (inflated), Expenses: $6k
      Year 3: Assets: -$18k, Expenses: $6k, Write-Off: $12k
      This is probably not legal.

      Of course there are legal write-downs/offs (and even write-ups, if an antique gains value) but you can't aim for one, then you're not fairly assessing your assets and can go to jail.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Bean counters ruin everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is Slashdot. We don't care if it's logical. It makes us feel smarter to mock bean counters, managers and MBAs because they get paid more than us and we don't understand why.

  9. To transformate the obsolete mediums. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An array of optical BDs and magnetic HDs is the replacement of the microfilms.

    But these storage machines should be separated by departments. By example, they have to separate Science's information, Cinema's movies, Art's films, Political information, etc.

    1. Re: To transformate the obsolete mediums. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole point is that microfilm is much better than those at holding data for centuries- probably.

      I suspect that the high end DVDs you can buy will be readable in a thousand years if anyone cares, but only because the readers will be basically inspecting each groove at a fast rate.

    2. Re: To transformate the obsolete mediums. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we do have MDisc.

  10. COM Cameras by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Around 1980 I got a job as a COM Camera Operator.

    This was a job mounting tapes on cameras, loading the job and film canister, and pulling the tape and film canister. The tapes held the data transported from a data center. The camera displayed and 'shot' the data onto 105mm film that became the master to produce microfiche from.

    We were a Service Bureau so we got tapes in from companies all over the region. Many companies had their permanent financial records shot to microfiche.

    Some jobs came in daily, weekly, or quarterly. The film masters produced on silver halide film, were then duplicated on diazo film (ammonia process, the same chemical process as used for blueprints) to produce the 'use' copies of microfiche.

    The 'dupers' were a lower tier in the labor at the COM shop.

    Some of the cameras were proprietary, but the other group of cameras (called the Betas for some reason) incorporated a PDP-8 minicomputer as their controller. The data tapes were either 800, 1600, or the new high density 6250 bpi tapes.

  11. When the headline has nothing to do with the summa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the headline has nothing to do with the summary. The summary makes zero mention of microfilm lasting 500 years. So what is the headline about?

    I have serious doubts about any kind of film lasting 500 years.

    Much as I like The Atlantic, I will not click on this obvious clickbait bullshit slashvertisement.

  12. you don't need the machines by ooloorie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And yet the microfilm machine is still widely used. It has centuries of lasting power ahead of it, and new models are still being manufactured.

    The reason people don't want those ungainly machines is because they don't need them. You can get all the durability of microfilm storage without the bulk or complexity of the old-style camera or reader by using digital microfilm recorders and digital microfilm readers. A digital microfilm reader is about the size of a cigar box and hooks up via USB to your PC.

    If you're preparing for a post-apocalyptic world, you can still always read those films with a simple handheld microscope.

  13. Microfilm or microfiche? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

    I have used both (a very long time ago), but I remember always hating the film compared to fiche. Random access always wins in my book...

  14. What a coincidence! by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 4, Funny

    Around 1980, I got a job as an LPT Camera Operator!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:What a coincidence! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      I predict 75% of Slashdotters are too young to get the joke.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:What a coincidence! by CaseCrash · · Score: 1

      I predict 75% of Slashdotters are too young to get the joke.

      Then explain it please?

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
    3. Re: What a coincidence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LPT vs COM ports. They still exist, but you only had to know what they were until about 2000.

    4. Re:What a coincidence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Fuck off.
      If you don't understand the joke just turn off the computer and chuck it out the window.

    5. Re:What a coincidence! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Around 1980 I got a job as a COM Camera Operator.

      Around 1980, I got a job as an LPT Camera Operator!

      I predict 75% of Slashdotters are too young to get the joke.

      Then explain it please?

      I imagine it involves COM vs. LPT ports.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    6. Re:What a coincidence! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      COM ports are still alive and well. Okay, they are often USB to COM port now rather than PCI or ISA to COM port, but for example Windows 10 made major improvements to the USB COM port driver.

      RS232 is still very much a thing, especially in industry. It's robust, easy, everything has it or can add it at minimal cost... Perhaps USB's biggest failing was being too complex and frankly a bit half baked in the early days.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  15. Overhead projectors... by cormandy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Back in the late â90s I had to present to a group of academics at a univerisy conference. I was the only non-academic presenting, and at the time I worked as an IT consultant for a major software company that everyone likes to dislike. (Clue: starts with an O.) Wanting to ensure that my presentation was hassle free I asked for an overhead projector having previously printed out some transparencies at the office. All the other presenters were keen to show off their technical skills by presenting from their laptops using what was at the time relatively new technology: digital projectors. Back then they still required a certain degree of fiddling to get to work as this was still the era of Windows 95/98. And a lot of fiddling and delays ensued that afternoon. I didnâ(TM)t want any of that so opted for a good old fashioned overhead projector which worked flawlessly. Fast forward 20 years and it has become a much more reliable technology so wouldnâ(TM)t do the same today, but one shouldnâ(TM)t be ashamed of old-school technology if it gets the job done.

    1. Re:Overhead projectors... by cpotoso · · Score: 1

      In the late 90's I started to use the "ppt projectors", but in the early days had a backup of printed transparencies...

    2. Re: Overhead projectors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OFacebook?

    3. Re: Overhead projectors... by Megol · · Score: 2

      OMicrosoft!

    4. Re: Overhead projectors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama!

    5. Re:Overhead projectors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Opera! Everyone hates Opera.

    6. Re:Overhead projectors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first time I saw computer output projected to a screen (perhaps just the whiteboard or a wall) was when I was in high school. It consisted in a Texas TI-92, a special apparatus and a overhead projector.
      I've looked it up :TI Viewscreen.
      It's a monochrome LCD that you put on the projector.

  16. Go fiche by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Printing a microfilm copy of everything as a backup and storing it in two or more safe places is the essential step. The aliens millennia from now can worry about re-inventing microfilm readers when they dig out the lunar vault where our backups are saved.

    1. Re:Go fiche by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      that's the beauty of microfiche, the document is reduced to 1/25th its original size. You could make a "reader" out of tech the Islamic Golden Age had (those guys were smart, things like Snell's law...guess what Snell was late to the party)

    2. Re:Go fiche by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      We once had a kind of hobby project in a computer magazin, where they printed out data on endless paper in a kind of barcode (little squares). To read in the 'backup' you would use a scanner, and the software to analyse it back.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  17. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Was this written by a stupid fuck in a wheelchair?? Fucking stupid things turn out to actually be fucking stupid; who'd a fuckin' thunk..."

    Why do you dolts insist on writing things like that? See how it looks when it's used against you? If you can't say anything nice....

  18. Re:When the headline has nothing to do with the su by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Decades after somebody's President gets conned into pushing the button you'll be able to boil those microfilms, scrape off the gelatin emulsion and eat it spread on leaves. You'll thank God you have that much, which is nice.

  19. millennium? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing in the summary supports the title. Microfilm hasn't existed for 500 years.

    Perhaps they meant "microfilm lasts half a century." But this is /., I should know better than to expect competent editors.

    1. Re:millennium? by Megol · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should click on the story link...

  20. Allow me by dereference · · Score: 4, Informative

    Much as I like The Atlantic, I will not click on this obvious clickbait bullshit slashvertisement.

    TFA had exactly 1 paragraph out of 17 related to its own title:

    Their longevity was another matter. As early as May 17, 1964, as reported in The New York Times, microfilm appeared to degrade, with “microfilm rashes” consisting of “small spots tinged with red, orange or yellow” appearing on the surface. An anonymous executive in the microfilm market was quoted as saying they had “found no trace of measles in our film but saw it in the film of others and they reported the same thing about us.” The acetate in the film stock was decaying after decades of use and improper storage, and the decay also created a vinegar smell—librarians and researchers sometimes joked about salad being made in the periodical rooms. The problem was solved by the early 1990s, when Kodak introduced polyester-based microfilm, which promised to resist decay for at least 500 years.

    The original linked article from the New York Times in 1964 is actually far more interesting.

    1. Re:Allow me by CaseCrash · · Score: 2

      The original linked article from the New York Times in 1964 is actually far more interesting.

      I know slashdot is a little behind sometimes, but 1964? That's pushing it.

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
  21. Re:WTF? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    indeed the readers I've worked with weighed 50 kgs, normal man who isn't a lazy out of shape cripple can carry them.

  22. digital longevity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is all very romantic until you have to actually use one because some “bureaucrat” refuses to get his collection digitized and a task that would take twenty minutes on a computer takes up the whole afternoon—if you are lucky enough to work with well-organized data, that is.

    It takes time and money to digitize a large collection of analogue data.

    They can budget to digitized and index / OCR everything at a certain rate ("x" rolls per week), but they may not get to the part of the collection that you're interested in right away. However, once you request particular roll(s), then they can perhaps push that up to the top of a stack on an ad hoc basis for future researchers. They can put the original analogue stuff back into storage.

    I'm reminded of the Digital Doomsday Book in the UK that could not be read after 15 years, but the original from 1086 still accessible:

    As a result, no one can access the reams of project information - equivalent to several sets of encyclopaedias - that were assembled about the state of the nation in 1986. By contrast, the original Domesday Book--an inventory of eleventh-century England compiled in 1086 by Norman monks--is in fine condition in the Public Record Office, Kew, and can be accessed by anyone who can read and has the right credentials.

    * https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/mar/03/research.elearning
    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project

    How much stuff was / is out there in Flash video format? How many DDS-1 tape readers are there, with an interface (IDE? SCSI-2?) that can connect to modern computers?

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Magnetic_tape_data_formats

  23. Obsolete technology by doseas · · Score: 1

    The genealogy library of the LDS church (FamilySearch.org), one of the world's largest users of microfilm, with over 2.4 million rolls stored in its Granite Mountain facility (https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Digitizing_the_Records_in_the_Granite_Mountain), has decided to stop making microfilm available for loan, due to cost and scarcity of film as well as the cost of maintaining the readers. They are currently digitizing the existing films and plan to have the project completed by 2020.

  24. No it doesn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tri-acetate or polyester degrades. Quickly. You have to carefully preserve it, to get anything even remotely lasting.

    And if you are OK with low-denstiy storage for longevity purposes, try a carved crystal in space, circling the sun on a trajectory where nothing will come close enough to disturb it for literal millions of years.

  25. Kinda young, eh? by PuddleBoy · · Score: 1

    "Unlike a computer -- even an old one -- it was heavy and ungainly."

    Just how young are you? I can remember taking a disk drive out of a PDP-11 rack and it took two adults to manhandle the drive.

    I'm gonna guess you can't drive a stick shift either....

  26. I bought a microfiche machine in the 1980s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bought a surplus microfiche machine from my university. Very big. Sadly I damaged the optics removing it from my truck at home. Never clear after that. Only cost me $25.

  27. Scanning everything to Digital Sounds Great. BUT.. by dballance · · Score: 1

    I have a customer who paid a company to scan their microfiche records to CD. Makes sense, sounds good. They got indexed and were searchable. The company promised the CDs would be readable forever. "Forever" was apparently until Windows XP was no longer supported. Now, we have to keep an XP VM around for them to read the old CDs because they can't be used any other way. Yes, we tried compatibility mode with no success. The program on the CD for reading the index database to locate the .tiff images would not run any other way except on the VM. The company that bought the original company which digitized the records offered to help us for a $150/hour or to convert the old CDs for a price. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe the Mormons have chosen to keep their microfiche records at Granite Mt. even though they are digitizing them for easier use. The technology turnover in digital storage is happening so quickly that you cannot pick a digital technology and be certain it will be readable for 20 years, much less 500. There is still a need for offline backups that do not require a computer to read them. We are quite vulnerable to hostile nations using large EMPs against our digital tech and power grid. A microfiche or microfilm reader is nothing more than a projector. Simple, easy to reconstruct because it does not require electronics. Seems like a very good way to keep records for the next several hundred years to me.

  28. Re: When the headline has nothing to do with the s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No idea what you're talking about. Hillary didn't get elected President and the one we have is against starting unnecessary wars.

  29. Re:Scanning everything to Digital Sounds Great. BU by Strider- · · Score: 1

    I work with a non-profit with just about 60 years worth of archives. In chatting with our archivist, we have set the following rules for what we archive digitally:

    1) All data must be in open/publicly documented formats, and preferably those that already have a long history.
    2) Filenames and directory structure must be desriptive. If the format supports metadata, it must be filled in.
    3) The data is migrated to new media every 2 years.
    4) Truly important documents (articles of incorporation, insurance paperwork, etc... ) is still printed off on acid-free paper, and kept in dry storage.

    --
    ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
  30. It reminds me of... by VAXcat · · Score: 2

    Angleton's Memex.

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  31. Objections: Speculation and Citation Needed by fibonacci8 · · Score: 1
    From the articles:

    The first micrographic experiments, in 1839, reduced a daguerreotype image down by a factor of 160.

    The problem was solved by the early 1990s, when Kodak introduced polyester-based microfilm, which promised to resist decay for at least 500 years.

    The math may be a bit fuzzy, but I'm about certain it hasn't yet been half a millennium since the earliest Microfilm, let alone the improved Kodak version claimed to last 500 years.

    --
    Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    1. Re:Objections: Speculation and Citation Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based kekker! I too am a fellow magapede. Science cannot be trusted these days. Shadilay to you and your kind.

    2. Re:Objections: Speculation and Citation Needed by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      You should educate yourself then on how media lifetime expectancy is made for various types.

  32. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No hover round rider could compare to the size of your big head.

  33. Re: When the headline has nothing to do with the s by datavirtue · · Score: 1

    That is some funny shit.

    --
    I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  34. So weird... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So weird to read this article. I just bought and transported a telephone booth. The four of us could only carry it for 3 steps at a time. More in my next post...I need some Gatorade.

  35. overhead projectors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This person has got it all wrong. I got hold of a microfilm reader in the 80's and brought it home myself. No I'm not Godzilla. What is this I need more than two people to carry this?

  36. Re:Scanning everything to Digital Sounds Great. BU by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    So what are you whining about? You can run dos 2.11 and windows 1.01 in a VM too. Or old OS/2.

    There is no problem. You don't have a problem.

  37. Re: Scanning everything to Digital Sounds Great. B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or else run procomm 2.4.2 in dosemu.

  38. M-disk? by Thelaststraw · · Score: 1

    Ha, I bought M-disks, they are good for a millennia. Or so they say, I won't be alive then, and if they have the tech to read blu-ray in 1,000 years, we're screwed as a species. So, yes, I paid a crap load of money for them, but hopefully they last more than a year or 2, unlike regular blu-ray recordable disks.

    --
    Nothing to see here, move along please.
  39. Re:Scanning everything to Digital Sounds Great. BU by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    It still seems easier than microfiche. You only need a laptop, and some VM software. And the only thing you've lost is the index database; which I assume is something you didn't have on the original microfiche (or did you? I really don't know how this works). You still have the TIFFs. You still have the database if you can decode it.

    I do agree with your point about the other low tech benefits. Although that seems to be more about data that we want to preserve post apocalypse. Guessing the data format of a piece of film is quite easy. A full newspaper page is probably large enough on fiche to work out that you just need to magnify it. A CD - the data format is designed for error correction, which makes it pretty cryptic, and while TIFFs can probably be decoded if they use RLE or raw encoding, LZW and JPEG will require some insightful guesses to work out how the data might be stored.

  40. Technology and its loss of data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I offered a very large pristine collection of vinyl recordings to a university library and the equipment to be able to play them and all I got from the head librarian is a snort and no thanks. Much of what I own is NOT available digitally. This is the profound ignorance of the digital generation to what came before as if it is not searchable it no longer exists in their mindset. It is a tragedy in the making.

  41. Only since the 90's by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    According to the article, the 500-year film was developed in the 1990s, when microfilm was being phased out everywhere. That doesn't leave a lot of 500-year microfilm out there!