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SpaceX Successfully Launches Its Used Block 5 Rocket (theverge.com)

SpaceX successfully launched one of its used Falcon 9 rockets from Cape Canaveral tonight at 1:18AM ET, deploying the Merah Putih communications satellite just over half an hour later. This marks the first time that SpaceX reused one of its new powerful Block 5 boosters -- the final upgrade of the Falcon 9 that is supposed to be able to go to space and back up to 100 times. "The Falcon 9's first stage booster also performed another successful landing on one of the company's drone ships in the Atlantic, becoming the 28th booster that SpaceX has ever recorded," The Verge adds. From the report: For this mission, SpaceX is using the very first Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket it's flown, a vehicle that sent up a large communications satellite for Bangladesh in May from Florida. The vehicle landed on one of SpaceX's drone ships after the flight, and the company has since done inspection and refurbishment on the vehicle over the last three months to get it ready for flight again. Eventually, SpaceX hopes to do as little refurbishment on these Block 5 vehicles as possible, if any at all. Limiting the amount of inspection and tweaking needed between re-flights could significantly up the cost savings that SpaceX gets from reusing its rockets. Less money is needed if fewer people and materials are needed to turn around the rockets each time. Ultimately, SpaceX hopes to fly each Block 5 vehicle a total of 10 times before any refurbishment is needed. As for the satellite, it will reportedly provide telecommunications services to parts of Indonesia and South Asia.

85 comments

  1. This just never gets old by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Funny

    This just never gets old. But they've got to do something about losing that drone barge video literally seconds before the booster puts down. Such a tease.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:This just never gets old by Tugrik · · Score: 4, Informative

      Someone actually made a video about why this happens. Found it while looking around after another 'aaaaiugh video cut out!' moment with tonight's landing.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    2. Re:This just never gets old by Barny · · Score: 2

      That was fascinating, and makes a lot of sense. As those things come down, they brake late from supersonic speed, so it's not just the thrust setting the boat wobbling, but four loud thumps hitting the deck as the pressure waves catch up. Thanks for the link.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    3. Re:This just never gets old by sittingnut · · Score: 1

      its old. interest is dying with each launch.
      which is what it should be, if this is going to be a successful commercial operation.

      stable sustainable success is boring. risky novelty is interesting.
      continuous volatility and excitement, indicates high risk of failure.

      hardly anyone watch soyuz launches.

    4. Re:This just never gets old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1st world problem - damn rocket woke me up! Seriously, i live about 15 miles, as the crow flies, from the launch pad.

    5. Re:This just never gets old by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      totally agree.
      The best thing that can happen is for these launches to get boring because it is the same thing over and over.
      Right now, SX has really only a couple of interesting launches coming up. I want to watch the FH, as well as Dragon V2.
      FH really needs to launch at least 3x before it starts to be boring. And V2 is very important to getting ISS and new space going.
      After these, the next interesting thing might be the lunar launches, but I would say BFR is far more interesting. And BO's new Glenn does not happen until 2020/1.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:This just never gets old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is that anything like straight line distance?

    7. Re:This just never gets old by Jerry · · Score: 1

      its old. interest is dying with each launch.
      which is what it should be, if this is going to be a successful commercial operation.

      stable sustainable success is boring. risky novelty is interesting.
      continuous volatility and excitement, indicates high risk of failure.

      hardly anyone watch soyuz launches.

      A LOT of people went out to the Denver Stapleton Airport to watch the first landing of the Boeing 747 airliner, in October of 1970. The newness lasted about a week. After that only occasionally did people stood on the side of the road near the end of the runway to watch a 747 fly over head.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  2. Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Big advances for humanity.

    1. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How so?

    2. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They've already brought costs down dramatically. If they can do rapid, low-labour reuse of rockets - the whole point of Block 5 - it will let them bring down prices even further. Two more aspects that are important for them in this regard are learning to capture and reuse fairings, and to recapture the upper stage (they haven't attempted the latter yet; they're looking at a balloon-based entry system).

      Of course, their longer term goals are BFR, which is to be even cheaper, but it's critically important that they learn from the (lower production cost, greater-mass-production scale) Falcon 9s.

      --
      Assuming ethanol comes from murdered children and the hydrogen from magic, hydrogen saves 132% more lives than ethanol.
    3. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If it's not their win, how come others are not competitive? Even countries with cheaper labour like Russia can't push the price down, not to mention ESA's Ariane that is directly threatened.

    4. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you are really saying is that the other companies did the R&D 50 years ago, and have been coasting off that without reducing cost until spaceX came along.
      Even so, why aren't they able to reduce cost to match with spaceX?

    5. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doing anything hard... like reliably landing, refurbishing and relaunching a first stage?

      Everybody is in a position to “ride the last 50 years of R&D” as you put it, yet only SpaceX went the way of saving costs by reusing rockets. And it’s not like the likes of Boeing and Energya are still bleeding and suffering for doing that R&D in the first place, those are sunk costs by now, there’s no “decades of liabilities” as you argue in your other post. What the hell does that even mean?

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      they invested in an implementation of a long existing idea obviously

      And what was the more expensive part: coming up with the idea, or putting it into practice? Sure, plenty of research into this has already been done by others, but it's not like SpaceX just copied the blueprints from a couple of research papers, they had to do the hard engineering themselves in order to build the first LEO-capable reusable 1st stage.

      Also, SpaceX doesn't do space tourism. They do commercial launches for a variety of customers.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    7. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      What "costs"? All shit that Space-X does is NASA developments, which Space-X got on the cheap, and fewer safety restrictions, which are unavailable to NASA due to legislation.

      Also, Space-X's financing is from NASA.

      So, this small piglet of corporate socialism is even farther from capitalism than Tesla or the former Solar city.

    8. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every single one of those existing companies could have taken advantage of the same best practices and research based on cash spent decades ago.
      That doesn't explain why they can't compete right now.

    9. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, those other companies didn't get massive amounts of money from their governments, right...

    10. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was reading an interview earlier this year with one of the top execs at Ariane about why - despite SpaceX showing that it's not only doable, but looks to be a big cost saver - that they're not doing so. And he responded something along the lines of, "if I do that, we'll only make a few rockets per year, and what am I supposed to do with all of my workforce then?"

      Obvious reaction to that statement...

      Of course, it's a fundamental problem for heavily-government-backed (some would say "propped up") rocketry companies: their backing is contingent on them being effective jobs programmes in the regions that their backers represent. They need to be burdened with high labour costs in order to be supported.

      --
      Assuming ethanol comes from murdered children and the hydrogen from magic, hydrogen saves 132% more lives than ethanol.
    11. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Rei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're ignoring their point. The first version of Falcon 9 was developed at a cost of $300M, by a company that had to build up its workforce and experience and software and manufacturing and everything else from scratch. Why exactly couldn't literally everyone else have done the exact same thing? Why are they still so far behind?

      Everyone is standing on the shoulders of giants. Why has only one been using that shoulder to climb even higher? Why have the others been content to just wander around on the shoulders for the past couple decades?

      --
      Assuming ethanol comes from murdered children and the hydrogen from magic, hydrogen saves 132% more lives than ethanol.
    12. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The entire development cost of the Falcon 9 has been around $350 million, whereas NASA estimated that developing a similar rocket would have cost them over $3 billion. NASA funded development dues to the obvious potential for cost savings over their existing launch providers. How the fuck you think this is socialism rather than capitalism ... that's just mind boggling.

    13. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Rei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1. The overwhelming majority of SpaceX's revenue is from commercial launches.

      2. NASA launches with SpaceX because it saves them money. That was the whole point of COTS in the first place, and it's the current whole point of Commercial Crew. The savings have been massive.

      Your argument is akin to saying that because there are US government employees who fly on commercial aircraft rather than running their own private planes, because that saves them money, that commercial carriers are "piglets of corporate socialism".

      Lastly:

      3. NASA sets the safety standards and testing requirements for its launches with SpaceX - same as it does with its ULA launches. Which is why among other things SpaceX will literally be destroying a rocket on purpose for NASA later this year, to test the abort system. Also, with 61 launches having one failure and one partial failure, and one ground failure, the Falcon 9 is above industry average in terms of reliability. Furthermore, there has not been a ground failure in 32 flights (aka, over half of their launches have happened since their last ground failure), and not an in-flight failure in 42 flights (aka, over 2/3rds of their launches have been since then).

      --
      Assuming ethanol comes from murdered children and the hydrogen from magic, hydrogen saves 132% more lives than ethanol.
    14. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't get his point. It's not (just) about preserving jobs for the sake of it. It's about preserving the capacity to produce rockets even though you make only a tiny amount a year. You need launches in the dozens per year to have reusable rockets and still manufacture enough to keep production capacity going. Arianespace has no path to this, at least not unless they somehow found a way to out-compete SpaceX drastically.

      But yes, the end result is that Arianespace is going to shift from being the biggest operator of civilian launches world-wide to a minor operator dedicated to strategic European launches and little else.

    15. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why have the others been content to just wander around on the shoulders for the past couple decades?

      Perceived high barriers to entry prevented entrants and a desire of the incumbents to suckle the teat of the Federal government.

      $300M is cheap compared to the incumbents, but still a large sum of money.

    16. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "entire development cost" is the know-how that has been accumulated from tax funded expenses by NASA over decades. Discounting that is so plain stupid it hurts. Saying "Musk and his few men built Space-X from nothing" is like saying "Robert Goddard built the American space industry" totally ignoring the fact that the US had no usable rockets until it plucked the best of the Nazi rocket engineering and brought it to America.

      But then Americans love to ignore the facts and live in the propaganda world that their media create for them.

    17. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      ...yet only SpaceX went the way of saving costs by reusing rockets

      Why do Carmack and Armadillo Aerospace never get any credit?

    18. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. The overwhelming majority of SpaceX's revenue is from commercial launches.

      LOL. SpaceX launches 55-60% commercial/40-45% government, and the price of government contracts is, by rumours, about 25-30% higher than private launches. That means the revenue is split half/half.

      Now, the more interesting question is, how did SpaceX get its commercial business? And the answer is, by piggybacking it on government missions and dumping the price. Why can it dump the price? Because of the government sponsorship.

      2. NASA launches with SpaceX because it saves them money.

      Nope, NASA launches with SpaceX because it no longer has the budget to launch itself AND maintain investment in its other programs, due to government funding cuts.

      because there are US government employees who fly on commercial aircraft, that commercial carriers are "piglets of corporate socialism".

      Much more so, because government employees don't buy half the tickets of the commercial airlines.

      3. NASA sets the safety standards and testing requirements for its launches with SpaceX

      And these are not the standards NASA had to adhere to when it was launching itself. So yeah.

      Furthermore, there has not been a ground failure in 32 flights (aka, over half of their launches have happened since their last ground failure), and not an in-flight failure in 42 flights (aka, over 2/3rds of their launches have been since then).

      So what? That is beside the point, and on top of that, there are launch systems for the kind of launches SpaceX is doing that have better records. It doesn't matter anymore, because the way satellites are being built is changing, and that has little to do with SpaceX.

    19. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is some serious bullshit from a Musk shill.

    20. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Armadillo had plans for reusable rockets, but did they ever build one? IIRC much of their focus was on lander designs.

      Maybe you were thinking of Blue Origin, who did fly, land, and relaunch a reusable 1st stage (they were the first who succeeded in soft landing one), but at the moment they are playing in a different league (suborbital flight), with their rocket capable of launching a payload into orbit not expected before 2020.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    21. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by mykepredko · · Score: 1

      There's no plan for SpaceX to reduce prices even if they can recover the 2nd stage and the fairings - the business plan calls for increased profits as they have more reusable pieces.

    22. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The "entire development cost" is the know-how that has been accumulated from tax funded expenses by NASA over decades. Discounting that is so plain stupid it hurts.

      No, including it would be absolutely idiotic given that spacex spent $350 million when NASA by their own estimation would have spent $3 billion to accomplish the same damn thing. Why stop at just including the cost of the original rocket programs? Let's include ALL technological development since the time man first developed fire. That makes just as much sense as your asinine suggestion.

      Saying "Musk and his few men built Space-X from nothing" is like saying "Robert Goddard built the American space industry" totally ignoring the fact that the US had no usable rockets until it plucked the best of the Nazi rocket engineering and brought it to America.

      Nobody is saying spacex was "built from nothing"; that's a figment of your overactive and deeply misdirected imagination. I also love the "hurr durr Nazi scientists" complaint; you (and so many others like you) are so butthurt about the success of the American space program that you'll grasp at any straw to try and downplay it.

      But then Americans love to ignore the facts and live in the propaganda world that their media create for them.

      Simpletons love to tell themselves how much more informed they are than "Americans". I guess your ego needs something to make up for your obvious lack of intelligence and rational thought. You probably even believe it ... but everyone else sees right through you.

    23. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Even more obvious reaction, lower launch costs, and there will be more launches. Rockets won't be endlessly reusable. There will be jobs.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Actually, they have already learned all they need from F9/FH for the BFR.
      BFR is 1 stage, with an upper load that is part stage/part carrier. IOW, like the shuttle. As such, they will be landing BOTH stage 1 and the carrier similar to how F9's stage 1 lands.
      There will be no fairing. At least at this moment, there will not be. Instead, it would just be the cargo version of the carrier.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    25. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Uh, I think that YOU are the one that does not understand.
      SX KNOWS that they need loads of launches. That is why BFR is not just devoted to mars solely. It would make the BFR as pricey as SLS or Ariane 5. Instead, they are building new markets. Markets that Russia OR Europe could be building.
      1) launches between continents. Considering how fast and relatively cheap these launches are, it will mean that some business ppl will use it, but the military is also looking into this now. The ability to send first strike back-up in a manner of hours is a huge deal.
      2) launches of LARGE sats. Hubble comes to mind. So, does other telescope. The ability to put up Starlink with only 33 launches is huge. In addition, it could launch MULTIPLE BA-2100s and set up a real space station in orbit. All for relatively low prices.
      3) Going to the moon. This is huge. If they can go to the moon with a craft every month at first, followed by weekly, then it means that the lunar base is a trivial matter. It will happen quickly and cheaply.
      4) going to mars and other parts of the solar system.

      All of these will require constant building of new vehicles. Not just the carriers, but the launchers as well. For example, Mars and moon would ideally have these on them as well. Come up to orbit, mate with carrier, then land. Europe pulling back from launch vehicle is a mistake. Hopefully, they will push to get axiom up there and vetted on the ISS. At the least, they should help get lunar exploration going. Axiom with a tug would be a great way to go to the moon.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    26. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      huh?. Really?
      Russia and Europe fully fund all of their launch vehicles.
      ULA gets 1B / year subsidy for nothing
      Boeing and L-mart are jokes when it comes to their cost+. They are as inefficient as China, Russia AND Europe.
      SpaceX got .3B for building out F9/dragon. NASA has saved well over that amount already. The DOD even more so.
      SX has/is getting some 2B for dragon v2 (along with another 1B for 6 launches to ISS). It remains to be seen how long it will take, if at all, to get this to pay back. Even if it does not pay back, then the 3B to SX and 5B to Boeing will provide redundancy so that HSF is never lost again.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    27. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      If they're able to increase launch cadence to the point where they can do more launches than they have customers for, that's when they'll lower prices to try to grow the market (to companies that currently aren't considering satellites due to the launch costs).

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    28. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Amazing what you "invented" comrade!

      Oh cool. So where in Russia, China, or North Korea are you from?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    29. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Im curious. SpaceX has gotten space going again. It has been doing NOTHING since Apollo. Now, we are really looking at deep space (hopefully LOP-G dies), WRT the moon and mars. More importantly, we are looking SERIOUSLY since it is now economically possible. The BFR should make it easy enough to conqueror the moon quickly, and mars over a decade or two.

      So, with that being there, and expanding the space economy, why do you want to see SX die?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    30. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      a musk shill? He asked a question. You seem to be afraid to answer it.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    31. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      lol. Uh, no. BO was not even close to being the first to succeed.
      First off, we have all of the planetary landers.
      Secondly, the Delta CLipper had travelled to 10K' and then softlanded as well.
      Thirdly, SX had already sent a stage 1, grasshopper, up to what, 6K feet and then brought it down? It was their attempts at trying the boats that prevented them from being before BO.
      All BO did was go a little bit higher, and then come down. Not that big of a deal.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    32. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      I think you are confused about the concept of "economies of scale".

      If you only make a few rockets for a few missions, they will cost a lot of money per rocket.
      If you make many rockets for many missions, cost per mission will go down because of economies of scale (efficient production line,...).
      However. if you make few rockets for many missions, that costs EVEN LESS! Making lots of rockets makes them cheaper per rocket but still raises the total price. A production line that makes half as many rockets is never going to cost twice as much per rocket.

      So no, it really was about preserving jobs for the sake of it. Which is normal for a government funded operation.

    33. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Of course, the Germans got their engine technology from where? Goddard.
      Basically, space, like most innovations, is a case of building on the work of others with the initial work typically not even recognized. Nobody but the Germans recognized how great Goddard was. They BEGGED him to come work with them on developing his stuff. And when we captured V2s, and examined them, apparently a fair amount of Goddards work had gone into it, along with improvements. It is said that Von Braun was EXCITED to meet Goddard, but not the other way around. Sadly, that was missed by 1/2 year.

      But hey, so many AC hate to give credit where credit is due.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    34. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SpaceX charges ~25% more for the government because of the additional bureaucratic overhead they have to go through for their missions. For instance, military missions require addition precautions and operational secrecy that results in less efficiency.

      So what? That is beside the point, and on top of that, there are launch systems for the kind of launches SpaceX is doing that have better records. It doesn't matter anymore, because the way satellites are being built is changing, and that has little to do with SpaceX.

      There are launch systems that have better records but cost triple. That's what.

    35. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      You would rather see them developer and deploy new technology so that you can bitch and complain about how wasteful they are when they could use something that already works. Morons like you will never be happy, no matter how companies do things.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    36. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Ariane space has a unique problem that is a fair assessment in regard to labor. They are ostensibly working on "Rockets" but in reality they're maintaining their solid-rocket motor know-how and ICBM capability. Reusable ICBMs ready to launch at a moment's notice aren't really feasible at this point. So Europe can either just have a bunch of rocket engineers sitting around in between ICBM refreshes or else they can give them something do designing "expensive" rockets.

    37. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Why has only one been using that shoulder to climb even higher? Why have the others been content to just wander around on the shoulders for the past couple decades?

      2 things.

      1) Some of these competitors still don't believe that there is sufficient demand to make it cost effective. Let's say there are 100 customers in the world and you need 80 customers to break even with reusable technology. By competing you both lose money until one or the other fails. So whichever is 1% more money all else being equal will win. SpaceX has the experience and time on their side.
      2) Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin is presumably doing precisely that.

      But saying "Falcon 9 only cost $300m" isn't correct. Falcon 9 re-usability alone cost around $1B. Again, Jeff Bezos plans to spend $1B a year so they'll probably get there pretty soon but it's not a small investment. Especially when #1 will scare away most investors who want to see a return on their money. "Why should we compete against SpaceX when they need high volume of launches to pay back R&D."

    38. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by oobayly · · Score: 1

      Yeah, people don't seem to understand how big the difference between getting into space and getting into orbit is.

      But getting to space is easy. The problem is staying there.

      The delta-v required to get something up to the Karman Line (100km) is 1,400 m/s, assuming an instance impulse and no atmosphere. In reality you need about 2,000 m/s because of atmospheric and "gravity" drag. That's a mere 20% of the delta-v required to get into LEO where you not only have to get into space (2 km/s), but also travel fast enough to stay up (8 km/s).

    39. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      This was not a discussion about karmen vs orbit. This was about soft landings. Clipper and grasshopper were doing landings long before BO, but from lower altitudes. however, 2 miles vs 60 miles vs 200 miles up, does not change the landing . As such, I say dcx and grasshopper were before New Sheppard.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    40. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      And meanwhile, NASA doesn’t think it could get to the Moon starting from today even as fast as it did the first time. So much for sitting around waiting for governments to do high technology.

    41. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itâ(TM)s not really necessary for them to compete with SpaceX to be viable. They can always serve niche markets where SpaceXâ(TM)s approach isnâ(TM)t practical. If youâ(TM)re launching something like the Parker probe on a one way trip to the sun, reusabilty probably isnâ(TM)t going to be high on your list of priorities. Specialty services have their place too.

    42. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has been doing NOTHING since Apollo.

      LOL. Are musk shitbags really so ignorant?

    43. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Germans got their engine technology from where? Goddard.

      Is that in the Marvel universe, or in the DC comics one?

    44. Re: Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are so butthurt about the success of the American space program

      Success of the "American" space program is based on two things, both rooted in a historical accident, the government of Roosevelt. One is the vast amount of resources the US could appropriate with "soft power" after the WWII (which it helped stir, but did not participate in except as a lender of last resort), resources that allowed the US to spend huge; and the other is, of course, the kidnapping of the scientific potential of its allies and the enemies they occupied for the US in the aftermath.

      The coasting from the impulse of these two will carry some minor shit for another decade, and then what's left will be sold off to China and India for small change.

    45. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [some] missions require addition precautions

      Yep, for example the extra safety that was required from NASA by law.

      but cost triple.

      Possibly. And then there are some that are better and cost roughly the same.

      Thanks for supporting my points.

    46. Re:Capitalism and private industry victorious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is SpaceX? In Los Angeles. All of the major aerospace players have plants located within fifty miles (Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed, Raytheon, Rand, Air Force SAMSO, Plant 42...the list goes on and on). These all have built up a cadre of engineers who made SpaceX possible. While the R&D is essential, the human capital made it possible.

  3. Some more information on the sat here.... by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    https://spaceflightnow.com/201...

    he Merah Putih satellite launched Tuesday will provide C-band telecommunications services over Indonesia and India. The new telecom craft was built by SSL in Palo Alto, California.

    SSL completed construction of the Merah Putih satellite ahead of schedule, according to Telkom Indonesia, also known as PT Telkom. The new satellite will replace Telkom 1, which failed in a mysterious debris-shedding event in geostationary orbit last year.

    Officials from Telkom Indonesia expected the Telkom 1 satellite, which launched in 1999, to remain operational until Merah Putih’s launch. But Telkom 1’s failure last year forced the operator to re-route communications traffic through other satellites.

    The Merah Putih satellite is designed for a 16-year life, its owner said in a statement. The spacecraft will be positioned in geostationary orbit more than 22,000 miles (nearly 36,000 kilometers) over the equator at 108 degrees east longitude.

    1. Re:Some more information on the sat here.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People caring about space is good. If it takes fanboyism, so be it.

    2. Re:Some more information on the sat here.... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Up to now the gating factors in getting to space have been the cost of getting out of Earth's gravity well and dependence on government programs. Now that both of these barriers have fallen, we no longer have to listen to that 'priorities' argument.

    3. Re:Some more information on the sat here.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The comment you replied to mentioned a lot of different things. Merah Putih (the satellite), SSL (Space Systems Loral, the manufacturer), PT Telkom (Telkom Indonesia, the customer).

      There's no mention of SpaceX or Elon Musk.

      It's not clear why you're bringing Elon Musk into this thread while at the same time complaining about his fanboys.

  4. Elon Musk's next project should be Anti-Gravity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If successful, it would be a major boost for both his Space-X and Hyperloop projects

  5. Company structure by sjbe · · Score: 4, Informative

    If it's not their win, how come others are not competitive?

    Mostly because the competition is primarily government contractors who built their businesses around cost plus pricing or government agencies like NASA. Once you design a business model around a cost structure like that it is nearly impossible to change to adapt to severe price competition from a private company focused on cost reduction. They didn't design their rockets with cost as a primary driver and more importantly they didn't design their company cultures with cost as a primary driver. It's the same problem a lot of retailers have in competing with Walmart or Amazon. Those companies designed their entire organizations around efficient infrastructure and once you fall behind in building that it is nearly impossible to catch up unless you are willing and able to lose a LOT of money in the process.

    In many cases they also had to please political entities with goals that had no relationship to cost reduction (see the Space Shuttle) which isn't their fault but it makes it impossible to do low cost rockets. Also if someone comes along with a better design than yours then it is difficult for these companies to respond quickly because building a new rocket design takes many years and big capital investments which aren't easy to do even under the best of circumstances.

    Even countries with cheaper labour like Russia can't push the price down, not to mention ESA's Ariane that is directly threatened.

    Russian labor isn't all that cheap, particularly for the sorts of people you need to build and launch rockets. (we're not talking sweatshop labor here) To make cheap rockets you need to do at minimum two big picture things. 1) You need to design the rockets with cost reduction as a primary goal and 2) you need to build the organization structure and culture to support designing and operating less expensive rockets. Russia knows how to make good rockets but they've taken the approach of using proven designs which work well but which have all the efficiencies already worked out. Basically they are already as cheap as they can make those designs. To make cheaper products they'll have to build new designs from scratch and at that point they really have no advantage over companies built like SpaceX.

    The biggest risk to SpaceX is probably Chinese companies with substantial government subsidies. China has shown they are willing to throw the government weight behind industries they think are important and don't mind taking losses to gain market share.
     

    1. Re:Company structure by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Not just taking losses. The second that we open up our markets to China again, they will dump here, just like India wants to.,

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:Company structure by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      China has shown they are willing to throw the government weight behind industries they think are important and don't mind taking losses to gain market share.

      They'll get around to it eventually unless their moles in SpaceX can pilfer enough secrets but they simply lack the cultural attributes needed to pull it off smoothly; expect a lot more 'sudden releases of kinetic energy' than Western efforts - just don't expect to actually hear about them.

    3. Re: Company structure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the second someone competes in a district with voters who vote,up go the trade barriers.

  6. How much is insurance? by sabbede · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm curious to know what it costs to insure a SpaceX payload launched on a reused rocket vs. a traditional rocket.

    1. Re:How much is insurance? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      reused rocket vs. a traditional rocket

      I like "tested vs untested."

    2. Re:How much is insurance? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      The last mention of it I can good is from last October and states that -- as of October 2017 -- the insurance price was exactly the same for a flight-proven rocket as a new rocket. Odds are that remains the case today, since there've been no Falcon 9 launch failures since.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    3. Re:How much is insurance? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      *good=google somehow.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    4. Re:How much is insurance? by jlv · · Score: 2

      CPF: Certified Pre-Flown.

    5. Re:How much is insurance? by sabbede · · Score: 1

      It's a shame I can't mod up a reply to a comment I posted. If I could, you'd be getting a heartfelt +1 Informative.

  7. T-ball vs the Bigs by PackMan97 · · Score: 1

    Blue Origin isn't in just a different league, it's basically the difference between little league t-ball and the major leagues. Suborbital is something college kids and maybe even high school kids can do with the right help. https://www.bostonglobe.com/id... Putting a very heavy satellite into space is something entirely different. The Falcon 9 can put 18,300 lb into geo-stationary orbit of 55,000 lb into low earth orbit. The Falcon Heavy should be able to do 2.5x those numbers and has put a Tesla Roadster out into a heliocentric orbit past Mars. A Blue Origin rocket can't even get to orbit without a payload.

  8. Just for fun... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's play "out of context". It's a little game I like to play to see just how bad mainstream media can distort things.

    Let's take the MSM sound-bite version:
    "the amount of inspection and tweaking needed between re-flights could significantly up the cost"
    Desired public reaction:
    WHOA!! This is freaking stupid expensive! Why are they doing this! Think of the children!

    vs.

    Actual statement:
    "Limiting the amount of inspection and tweaking needed between re-flights could significantly up the cost savings"
    Undesired public reaction:
    WHOA!! This is freaking awesome! Why isn't every launch company doing this! Think of the children's future!

    I clipped a single word off each end and totally changed the meaning. Fun, huh?

  9. Recorded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Recovered? Who's your editor, Microsoft Word?

  10. Rei is a Musk shill either way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rei is a Musk shill either way.

  11. Isn't capitalism great by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 2

    China has shown they are willing to throw the government weight behind industries they think are important and don't mind taking losses to gain market share.

    Random startup has shown they are willing to throw money behind industries they think are important and don't mind taking losses to gain market share.

  12. Re: Elon Musk's next project should be Anti-Gravit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not time travel? Just think what that could mean for his Hudson Bay Company.

  13. Where's the webcast? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0