After Employee Revolt, Google Says It's 'Not Close' To Launching Search In China (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Reports from earlier this month claimed Google was working on products for the Chinese market, detailing plans for a search engine and news app that complied with the Chinese government's censorship and surveillance demands. The news was a surprise to many Googlers, and yesterday an article from The New York Times detailed a Maven-style internal revolt at the company. Fourteen hundred employees signed a letter demanding more transparency from Google's leadership on ethical issues, saying, "Google employees need to know what we're building." The letter says many employees only learned about the project through news reports and that "currently we do not have the information required to make ethically informed decisions about our work, our projects, and our employment."

According to a report from The Wall Street Journal, Google addressed the issue of China at this week's all-hands meeting. The report says CEO Sundar Pichai told employees the company was "not close to launching a search product" in China but that Pichai thinks Google can do good by engaging with China. "I genuinely do believe we have a positive impact when we engage around the world," The Journal quotes Pichai as say, "and I don't see any reason why that would be different in China." The report says Brin "sounded optimistic about doing more business in China" but that Brin called progress in the country "slow-going and complicated."

Comments

How to use the memory hole

[alternative_right]

Claim the controversial project is not near completion.

Wait a few months for the sheep to lose concentration and have it drift beyond their attention span.

Then, quietly do it with a small elite staff.

When people complain, say, "Well, it's a done deal now, we can't back out or we'd lose money!"

Everyone knows that is bad and unpopular, so no one will support that. We are herd animals.

Moooo.

Google staff are revolting

[Anonymous Coward]

Who'd a thunk it?

The employees only support censorship of their own

[elrous0]

Apparently they're only cool with censoring their own conservative employees.

Keep it Down Home

[Kunedog]

Don't send our thought police overseas when they are badly needed to carry out political censorship at home, especially before the elections!

Re:Keep it Down Home

[elrous0]

At this point I would be surprised if, by the 2020 election, there are even a small handful of conservative voices who haven't been completely banned for YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Alex Jones was a kook, but he was just the low-hanging fruit they used to set a precedent. Anyone who thinks he'll be the last conservative voice effectively banished from the internet is kidding themselves.

They start with the kooks, then they go after the semi-kooks, then they go after the controversial, then the semi-controversial....and by the 2020 election pretty much anyone to the right of Che Guevara is a persona non grata on the modern internet. And that's how democracy dies. Say anything you want as long as no one can hear you.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

They start with the kooks, then they go after the semi-kooks, then they go after the controversial, then the semi-controversial....and by the 2020 election pretty much anyone to the right of Che Guevara is a persona non grata on the modern internet. And that's how democracy dies. Say anything you want as long as no one can hear you

Every four years, the other side has the chance to do the same thing itself. Apparently this is a venerable American tradition...

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Anonymous Coward]

They do? When is the national election for the staff of Facebook and Google?

Re:Keep it Down Home

[CaptainDork]

In other words, the needle swings.

It's pegged all the way to the right at this point.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Mashiki]

Every four years, the other side has the chance to do the same thing itself. Apparently this is a venerable American tradition...

There's a problem with your reasoning. The progressive left, and in general political left across the west have been frothing at the mouth and pushing to censor people for the better part of 15 years now. Now you've got an entire group of people that believe that free speech should be restricted if it hurts feelings and/or desire to expand hate speech laws to cover feelings. If you don't think so, you haven't really been paying attention. Things like deplatforming, pulling fire alarms, calling in bomb threats, and so on have been a staple for quite a while. The last oh 7-8 years or so, they've started moving directly into violence. You can see that with antifa most prominently, but can find it with any communist linked group in pretty much any country in Canada, US, or various EU countries.

Universities are pretty damned cancerous these days in terms of stifling speech outside of what's approved, even here in Canada. The debacle with Lindsay Shepard is a good example, especially since these self declared liberals are now labeled as far-right by various media outlets, student unions, student groups, and so on.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they could be on social media if they weren't so damn stupid. Seriously, have you heard these guys? They are retarded or something.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

There's a problem with your reasoning. The progressive left, and in general political left across the west have been frothing at the mouth and pushing to censor people for the better part of 15 years now. Now you've got an entire group of people that believe that free speech should be restricted if it hurts feelings and/or desire to expand hate speech laws to cover feelings. If you don't think so, you haven't really been paying attention.

I've been paying attention to the fact that the two sides are not really all that different, they just do sometimes things differently. The conservatives have been doing these things for centuries, largely under religious guise and/or in family settings instead. So left-wing activists are doing that in schools? Frankly, I don't see how any of the sides is the lesser asshole in this clash.

The last oh 7-8 years or so, they've started moving directly into violence.

Ahhh, *you* haven't been paying attention to the last century, have you?

Universities are pretty damned cancerous these days in terms of stifling speech outside of what's approved

Maybe in America, not so much in large parts of Europe. In terms of left-vs-right, I have yet to find a polarized school in my country.

Re: Keep it Down Home

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, here you are, uncensored and unoppressed. Your party controls every branch of the government and the companies you disclaim are full of conservative-to-libertarian souls in all ranks.

Youâ(TM)re not oppressed, youâ(TM)re opposed. Lies and propagandists are being rejected. Suck up, buttercup. The system may be hyperbolic but itâ(TM)s still kind of working as intended.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Anonymous Coward]

In terms of left-vs-right, I have yet to find a polarized school in my country.

That's likely because your country is one of those that doesn't even have a right-wing, or you have one but they have to hide. So of course there's no polarization. Everyone is forced to agree with the left-wing orthodoxy, or at least pretend they do.
 

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop calling Alex Jones conservative. He is nothing of the sort. He is a nutbag 9/11 truther who espouses zero principles of conservatism.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Mashiki]

I've been paying attention to the fact that the two sides are not really all that different, they just do sometimes things differently. The conservatives have been doing these things for centuries, largely under religious guise and/or in family settings instead. So left-wing activists are doing that in schools? Frankly, I don't see how any of the sides is the lesser asshole in this clash.

Oh this is mostly true, of course you've just forgotten that the left pretty much has a strangehold on culture and has for oh 60 odd years at this point in most of the west.

Ahhh, *you* haven't been paying attention to the last century, have you?

Sure have. Did you pay attention to the fact that antifa of today are just like the ones of the 1930's?

Maybe in America, not so much in large parts of Europe. In terms of left-vs-right, I have yet to find a polarized school in my country.

European schools were the ones to invent deplatforming under the guise of hate speech. You have yet to find a polarized school in your country? How would you know if the viewpoints you're exposed to have already been censored and curated.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Hehe. Nope. We do have a right wing and they don't have to hide. It's just that our schools don't have this kind of political arena aftertaste to them. That's not to say that individuals in schools have no political leanings on their own but you simply don't get the kind of Douglas-Adamsian idiocracy regularly observed at US and UK schools (WTF is a "diversity officer"? :-p). Schools have also been notably apolitical, political-parties-wise, ever since they stopped being brainwashing centers of the Communist party in 1989. I guess nobody simply wants to repeat the same experience (except for the surviving Communists of course).

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Oh this is mostly true, of course you've just forgotten that the left pretty much has a strangehold on culture and has for oh 60 odd years at this point in most of the west.

Oh, my sweet summer child... You have no idea what it means when the left has a stranglehold on culture

You have yet to find a polarized school in your country? How would you know if the viewpoints you're exposed to have already been censored and curated.

They're not. It's just that nobody gives a fuck in schools what your political leanings are. And why would they? That's not what a school is for. American schools, on the other way...

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Mashiki]

Oh, my sweet summer child... You have no idea what it means when the left has a stranglehold on culture

I don't? Oh you bloody fool, making an assumption like that just shows how badly you're arguing that point.

They're not. It's just that nobody gives a fuck in schools what your political leanings are. And why would they? That's not what a school is for

They're not? So why don't you explain why all those universities go out of their way to remove speakers they disagree with. And the students unions do exactly the same thing. I mean really, in the UK it's become so bad that the government is looking to get involved. And even the guardian is arguing against it. These are not one-off things. You seem to fail to understand the difference between what you linked, and what I'm saying. Universities in Europe are, have, and do actively remove/revoke speakers from speaking at their universities. Whether they're old school feminists who's view points no longer "fit" with the new feminist order. Or speakers who argue for more free speech in Europe.

You seem to fail to understand that universities are the place where your views should be tested, and in European countries your views aren't being tested because they're banning people who would challenge them. European universities have been doing this since the 1970's. This same infestation has been going on in US universities for the last 10-15 years, and the same in Canada.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

why all those universities go out of their way to remove speakers they disagree with.

Because UK is a crazyland, just like the US. Fortunately I don't have to suffer living in either, and I was most not certainly having UK in mind when I wrote "in large parts of Europe". Hell, the UK isn't apparently even considered Europe by many Brits.

Universities in Europe are, have, and do actively remove/revoke speakers from speaking at their universities. Whether they're old school feminists who's view points no longer "fit" with the new feminist order. Or speakers who argue for more free speech in Europe.

As I said, luckily we don't have this problem. Hell, your fictional scenarios look ridiculous from where I stand.

You seem to fail to understand that universities are the place where your views should be tested ...

Of course, that's a major part of their purpose. Why would I fail to see that?

... and in European countries your views aren't being tested because they're banning people who would challenge them. European universities have been doing this since the 1970's

And around here, they stopped doing that in 1989.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Mashiki]

Because UK is a crazyland, just like the US. Fortunately I don't have to suffer living in either, and I was most not certainly having UK in mind when I wrote "in large parts of Europe". Hell, the UK isn't apparently even considered Europe by many Brits.

Do I really need to start pulling articles from german and french dailies to make a point, or do you want to save yourself the trouble and start looking on your own? You can try the "UK isn't part of Europe" all you want, but that's like saying Quebec isn't part of North America.

As I said, luckily we don't have this problem. Hell, your fictional scenarios look ridiculous from where I stand.

Fictional scenarios? You're doing more to prove that you don't understand what's going on in your own backyard, let alone what's going on in your own universities. Pick your poison of speakers: political correctness, Israel, deportation of illegals. Those are all cases from Germany in the last 6 months where speakers have been deplatformed.

Of course, that's a major part of their purpose. Why would I fail to see that?

In the part where you believe that universities are apolitical, they're not.

And around here, they stopped doing that in 1989.

Yes that's right. Because once the media stops reporting on it, it doesn't exist anymore. Never mind that you can find the stories if you dig hard enough.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Fictional scenarios? You're doing more to prove that you don't understand what's going on in your own backyard, let alone what's going on in your own universities. Pick your poison of speakers: political correctness, Israel, deportation of illegals. Those are all cases from Germany in the last 6 months where speakers have been deplatformed.

"My own universities?" There's no German universities in my country.

In the part where you believe that universities are apolitical, they're not.

People may not be apolitical, but institutions can. It's actually codified in our law, at least to the extent that political organizations are banned from universities. That doesn't of course prevent students from organizing outside universities, or participating in politics, but universities pushing for political positions would likely get in deep shit.

Never mind that you can find the stories if you dig hard enough.

OK, start digging, then?

Re:Keep it Down Home

[Mashiki]

"My own universities?" There's no German universities in my country.

Made a point, and you fully missed it. Are you saying that German universities aren't a part of Europe?

People may not be apolitical, but institutions can. It's actually codified in our law, at least to the extent that political organizations are banned from universities. That doesn't of course prevent students from organizing outside universities, or participating in politics, but universities pushing for political positions would likely get in deep shit.

Uh-huh. And in Canada, universities are codified by educational charter to be places of higher learning. That of course doesn't make it true.

OK, start digging, then?

By all means, let me know when you find the repeated times that Germaine Greer was deplatformed multiple times, from multiple universities, in multiple european countries.

Re:Keep it Down Home

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Made a point, and you fully missed it. Are you saying that German universities aren't a part of Europe?

I'm saying no such thing. You, on the other hand, seem to be somehow hell-bent on steering things towards absolute statements. When I voiced disagreement with your (absolute, and false) claim that "universities are pretty damned cancerous these days" by pointing out that world-wide this is far from a universal truth, you somehow went from my "large parts of Europe" (which I have no idea if it includes Germany or not) to your all-encompassing idea that if one European country does something wrong, the whole world of European and possibly also global education is fucked. That is far from being the case.

Uh-huh. And in Canada, universities are codified by educational charter to be places of higher learning. That of course doesn't make it true.

So nobody actually learns there any higher stuff? Is that what you're saying? And nobody noticed it, or at least isn't worried about it?

By all means, let me know when you find the repeated times that Germaine Greer was deplatformed multiple times, from multiple universities, in multiple european countries.

All of them? Interesting. Our media must have hushed it down in that case. Or maybe not, since her opinions don't seem to be distant from the majority sentiment of our rather conservative nation.

Employee’s need more reality

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Google employee’s need more reality about Google. It’s a company involved in world technology development so you have to work with what countries allow and want. Maybe the employee’s have some demented belief every country can become some utopia of freedom and it just won’t happen. Staging a protest doesn’t fix anything, its like having a hissy fit every time something you don’t like. Google probably feels having something there in China is better then having no influence there. Some of these Google people need to get a clue about the world.

Re:Employee’s need more reality

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did you get the idea that "employees" needs an extra apostrophe?

Re: Employee’s need more reality

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck off, bootlicker. Selling to dictatorships should be illegal.

Re: Employee’s need more reality

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, I thought you snowflakes were against the US pushing other countries around.

Re:Employee’s need more reality

[CaptainDork]

The employees need an extra apostle.

Re:Employee’s need more reality

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Google employeeâ(TM)s need more reality about Google. Itâ(TM)s a company involved in world technology development so you have to work with what countries allow and want.

I suspect IBM, Kodak, Coca-Cola, Chase, AP...etc all agree with this sentiment.

Maybe the employeeâ(TM)s have some demented belief every country can become some utopia of freedom and it just wonâ(TM)t happen.

It's your life. You get to decide how you spend it. Perhaps some simply don't want to work on or be associated with shit that will be used oppress millions and reinforce dictatorships? Perhaps they feel they have better things they can be doing with their time?

Google probably feels having something there in China is better then having no influence there. Some of these Google people need to get a clue about the world.

Dam toooot-in. If pepples R gonna be opppresssed Google shld B the 1 2 do it.

Re:Employee’s need more reality

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound bitter, sweet tits.

Bullshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll just spin off another Alphabet company.

Then they can say, "Google isn't doing business with China!"

Organizing all the world's information?

[Anonymous Coward]

"currently we do not have the information required to make ethically informed decisions about our work"

O RLY?

How can you complain if you work for Google

[Anonymous Coward]

that's what I want to know. It seems you are yourself working for an entity that has lost all sense of ethics and morality in its quest to commercialize the profiling of every single internet user for both intelligence gathering and monetary revenue, and you have in effect waived your right to moralize over others because they don't want to let Google loose in their country.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[Anonymous Coward]

Persecution complex detected.

motto

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Be evil.
2. Don't do the right thing.
3. Profit!!!!

They'll just joint venture it in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Share the technology with a China state-owned enterprise.

Re:They'll just joint venture it in China

[CaffeinatedBacon]

I think China is perfectly capable of spying on its own people without Googles help.

Re:They'll just joint venture it in China

[drnb]

I think China is perfectly capable of stealing google's technology and making modifications without Google's help.

Re:They'll just joint venture it in China

[Anonymous Coward]

They need the Google branding to get people to freely give up their information. "Google is your friend." "Do no evil."

"Dumb fucks." is when Zuck lost China.

Re:They'll just joint venture it in China

[CaffeinatedBacon]

Complete idiocy, Chinese people willing give up much more info than you can possibly imagine. They already know the Chinese government scoops up just as much data on them as the NSA collects on you, but they hardly care in the slightest.
They love their Chinese companies way more than Americans love Google. Even when it was allowed in China it had a tiny market share.

Don't be evil

[Anonymous Coward]

Ban Google in more countries.

This entire "employee revolt" store is BS

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody is revolting and management isn't caving. This just a way to stall for a little while until the attention moves on and away from google. Not only is Censorship-Google moving forward in China, it's coming to everywhere else as well (more than it already has). Move along, nothing to see here. Do no evil.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[Anonymous Coward]

SJW detected.

"Not close to launching" is not a denial

[drnb]

"Not close to launching" is not a denial of working on a censored and surveilled product. To be fair though, if that's what the local law require then they have no choice if they want to make a buck, excuse me, "engage with" such a country.

Re:"Not close to launching" is not a denial

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to clarify, there's no "if" here. China definitely requires the ability to censor and monitor searches of its own citizens.

Re:"Not close to launching" is not a denial

[DNS-and-BIND]

Engagement is how you get people on your side. If you're only willing to work with others on your own terms, that makes you isolated. It can also make you a mean bully. This is Trump's policy, you really think it's a good one?

Re:"Not close to launching" is not a denial

[drnb]

Engagement is how you get people on your side.

Nixon and Kissenger's engagement (ie what we've been doing since the 1970s) failed to liberalize China, exported large chunks of American industry and jobs to China, financed China's military growth, update their military technology and capabilities (ie force projection into their neighbor's waters) by decades, ...

Re:"Not close to launching" is not a denial

[DNS-and-BIND]

They were the smart people. You're saying you don't want to listen to smart people when they advise you? This is the same idiocy that led to Brennan getting his security clearance revoked. Now the government has one fewer smart person on the outside doing good.

Re:"Not close to launching" is not a denial

[drnb]

They were the smart people. You're saying you don't want to listen to smart people when they advise you? This is the same idiocy that led to Brennan getting his security clearance revoked. Now the government has one fewer smart person on the outside doing good.

No, I'm saying the smart people [Nixon/Kissenger] had an idea, it seemed reasonable at the time, we gave it a try. They turned out to be wrong as we all learned from Tiananmen Square, but we continued with the failed idea anyway. Further evidence of being wrong accumulated, predatory business practices, fake territorial water claims, etc. Its time for trade reciprocity, favored trade practices have failed. Plus they are no longer a developing nation so some of the favored trade practices no longer make sense in that respect either.

You're Brennan red herring makes no sense. He is out of government, he is *not* working for a private agency consulting with or contracted by the government. He is a journalist and political pundit, his security clearance offers little beyond an opportunity to leak information, which partly explains why the media hates this notion of revoking clearance for people no longer in "the trade". Of course the other reason the media hates it is simply Trump. Sure he had petty motivations, but despite such shortcomings we have a broken clock moment. When you leave "the trade" you should leave your clearance behind as well.

Probably only the USA employees complaining

[drnb]

I think Google employee’s need more reality about Google.

Its likely Google's Chinese employees are far more practical about this than Google USA employees. Google can shift more development to China as necessary.

Re:Probably only the USA employees complaining

[elrous0]

Its likely Google's Chinese employees are far more practical about this than Google USA employees.

Of course Chinese workers all unite to praise Glorious Leader Xi Jinping's glorious censorship program....or else.

Capitalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Capitalism based on ethical decisions of employees these days? What a joke. Just kick them and hire more loyal servants for the task.

Delivering ads is a *service* to users

[drnb]

that's what I want to know. It seems you are yourself working for an entity that has lost all sense of ethics and morality in its quest to commercialize the profiling of every single internet user for both intelligence gathering and monetary revenue, and you have in effect waived your right to moralize over others because they don't want to let Google loose in their country.

But delivering better targeted advertising is a *service* to internet and email users.

Busted

[ElitistWhiner]

GOOG - origin myth was " Do No Evil" . What does this company stand for since dropping " do no evil"? To what purpose does its (evil by explicit omission) platform now support? Each time its employees reveal adverse " Do no evil" moral implications Google is lofted on its petard. Google whines " Sorry" but... we'll keep doing it.

Re:Busted

[elrous0]

They just streamlined the motto by removing the "no".

Re:Busted

[drinkypoo]

GOOG - origin myth was " Do No Evil" .

No, no it was not. It was "Don't Be Evil".

Re:Busted

[CaptainDork]

Google's back is against the wall.

They've hit a brick one called, "customer acquisition," and the next big fool pool is in China.

Money, money, money.

China has lots.

So does the US gubmint.

Re:Busted

[Anonymous Coward]

But you don't, Chris. But boxes full of Funko Pop figurines under your futon.

Re: Busted

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't start this shit again.
That meme is just starting to die.

Of course not

[Anonymous Coward]

They’re too busy censoring conservative speech in the rest of world

Re:Of course not

[CaptainDork]

Like Alex Jones?

Get the app.

It's called the iCrapp.

Re:Of course not

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, I already subscribe to your videos, Chris. THere's a limit to the amount of shit I can stand.

Re:Of course not

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound bitter, sweet tits.

Re:Of course not

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound autistic, man tits.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[K. S. Kyosuke]

I believe it's called Googleplex.

and facebook will shield you too

[drnb]

Its likely Google's Chinese employees are far more practical about this than Google USA employees.

Of course Chinese workers all unite to praise Glorious Leader Xi Jinping's glorious censorship program....or else.

Some actually trust that the government is shielding them from criminals, lies and unhealthy content. Its sort of like some in the USA who are grateful that facebook will shield them from conservative ideas. ;-)

Chinese version ...

[PPH]

... Poohgle

A great quote

[burtosis]

From History of the World Part I
Count de Monet: It is said that the people are revolting
King Louis XVI : You said it. They stink on ice.

Differences in censorship

[alternative_right]

The Right censors those who act against social standards; the Left censors those who fail to be Leftist enough.

Most of our conservatives, in the context of history, are fairly Left-leaning. They support egalitarianism in politics and society; the only area they do not support it is the economy, where they insist on free markets instead of enforced socioeconomic equality.

Fear not; the Left is targeting that next.

Eventually they will win, and produce a socialist society. The good people will all die off, and the proles will have their triumph. Then, that society will slide into third-world status because it is ruled by morons commanding other morons, and so it will vanish from the pages of history because it is irrelevant.

This is what Leftism does: it destroys civilizations.

Re:Differences in censorship

[K. S. Kyosuke]

The Right censors those who act against social standards

Right now it seems that the right in power would really love to censor those who are trying to prosecute those who act against social standards. If the right were actually censor those who act against social standards, that would be a mighty improvement.

Re:Differences in censorship

[angel'o'sphere]

Then, that society will slide into third-world status because
Most "civilized" countries consider yours already on that level ... except for places like most of California and some selected city centers.

Re:Differences in censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never seen such mindless drivel voted up to +5 before on Slashdot! Shouldn't you get an award for that?

I mean, you have achieved something here!

Re:Differences in censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

Most "civilized" countries are whiny bitches pissed off because the US public doesn't give two shits about what they think. If the US is so bad why in the hell are people risking life and limb just to get in? The US Embassies and consulates around the world have waiting lines wrapped around the block for people applying for VISA's to enter the US. Have you ever seen a line with more than 5 US citizens looking to immigrate to some foreign nation?

Trump may be an idiot but he has started asking potential "allies" what exactly does the US get out of these partnerships other than non-stop criticisms and never ending animosity? And why is it SOP for every single "allie" and "enemy" to impose tariffs and attach stricter regulations on the import of US goods and services that are higher than any reciprocal US tariffs.

Re:Differences in censorship

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Most of our conservatives, in the context of history, are fairly Left-leaning. They support egalitarianism in politics and society; the only area they do not support it is the economy...

Except for gay marriage, voting rights, felon disenfranchisement, prayer in school, mandatory standing for the national anthem, etc. And, depending on where the line is drawn for "most conservatives", active and vocal parts are significantly against equality with regard to gender, race and religion.

...[the economy,] where they insist on free markets instead of enforced socioeconomic equality.

I've never heard of anyone serious wanting enforced equality. To say those are the two positions is stupid and wrong.

Re:Differences in censorship

[hdyoung]

I'd be very interested to know who you actually consider a "conservative". If your definition held in today's society, I'd probably identify as one.

However, it we're talking about the current group of people who identify as conservative..... you have it very badly wrong. You say conservatives support egalitarianism in politics and society? What cave have you been living in? Conservatives are spearheading voter suppression efforts at the activist level (targeted mailings to minorities with misinformation) at the local level (purging voter rolls that affect 99% minorities) and the state level (explicit gerrymandering along racial lines). Explicit immigration policies that aim to let in 99% white people. Significantly large groups of conservatives are explicitly anti-woman. Let's not discuss abortion, just talk about the hostility to women's reproductive health and even birth control.

I could write pages on our current conservative administration. Egalitarian? For you to even claim that the current conservative movement is egalitarian is.... absolutely ... that......I .......ohmygod......

I'm simply at a loss for words.

Re: Differences in censorship

[datavirtue]

You have about as much of a right to vote as you have a mandate to vote.

Thank all goodness neither is true because you can't fix stupid.

Re:Differences in censorship

[Mashiki]

Except for gay marriage, voting rights, felon disenfranchisement, prayer in school, mandatory standing for the national anthem, etc

Plenty of wide and very disagreements on gay marriage on both sides of the political spectrum everywhere, US? Canada? Hell even in European countries. Voting rights, well that one's interesting. Conservatives want voter ID. Progressives suddenly want voter ID, but only because of the muh russia narrative. But they then suddenly realize that's racist and backtrack quickly. Who'd knew that law and order(something that conservatives generally like), would be against people who've committed felonies losing the right to vote. You'd also find most are willing to allow former felons the right to re-earn the right to vote by becoming productive members of society too. Prayer in school, that one is interesting. Because we've already seen equity being handed to non-christians to be able to pray in classes, which has led to some very interesting court cases. And mandatory standing for the national anthem? Are you saying that conservatives seem to be more patriotic? Or are you saying that you don't like the idea of standing for it, in which case you should probably find a new country?

And, depending on where the line is drawn for "most conservatives", active and vocal parts are significantly against equality with regard to gender, race and religio

I think the word you meant is equity, not equality. You should be able to tell the difference, if you can't then you should go ask your local asian/asian-american who was denied entry to a major university while an african-american was granted entry because of affirmative action. Whole bunch of court cases on that one these days.

I've never heard of anyone serious wanting enforced equality. To say those are the two positions is stupid and wrong.

You misunderstand. They're saying free markets create equality based on ability and skill, and they're against using the state to force equality. I.e. gender quota's, race quota's, and so on. And schools and or businesses dropping more qualified candidates because of laws. Or to put in a simple word: They seem to believe in meritocracy, something that the left now calls racist, sexist, or a MRA construct when they're being extremely stupid.

Re:Differences in censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that in the EU and definitely in the west of the EU, the conservatives are considered the far right wing. In the Netherlands we have many, many parties but none of them are considered as far right as the Republicans.

Chinese Darwin Award

[alternative_right]

Of course Chinese workers all unite to praise Glorious Leader Xi Jinping's glorious censorship program....or else.

More importantly, those who do not praise the Chinese State tend to fail at a form of natural selection, mainly by experiencing 7.62mm tumors at the base of the skull. Therefore, they no longer exist on Chinese development teams, and everyone else eats their rice.

Re:Chinese Darwin Award

[elrous0]

Xi Jinping would never go so far as to harm his opponents. Though his opposition does tend to show an unusually high rate of suicide-by-throwing-themselves-down-an-elevator-shaft-onto-some-bullets.

Re:Chinese Darwin Award

[Anonymous Coward]

Xi Jinping would never go so far as to harm his opponents. Though his opposition does tend to show an unusually high rate of suicide-by-throwing-themselves-down-an-elevator-shaft-onto-some-bullets.

Three times.

While tied to a chair.

Re:Chinese Darwin Award

[elrous0]

Some people are just REALLY tired of living, man.

Conservative sites fading away

[alternative_right]

Not only is Censorship-Google moving forward in China, it's coming to everywhere else as well (more than it already has).

It seems harder to find non-cucked conservative content on Google of late, at least without highly specific searches (for example, phrases you know are in the article).

Re:Conservative sites fading away

[CaptainDork]

There are other toys you could use.

Vote with your choices.

The market rules.

Re: Conservative sites fading away

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatttttt? Conservatives letting the free market do its job? You don't say.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you disagree with the facts that a Google employee internally posted an item complaining about discriminatory practices and was promptly fired?

Do you disagree that there is now a class action suit against Google for their hiring practices? As an example, Google provided a document which advised HR managers that they should not hire "for traits valued by dominant white male culture" such as "individual achievement" and "growth". https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/04/18/lawsuit-google-instructed-managers-that-individual-achievement-and-objectivity-were-examples-of-white-dominant-culture/

If it is not against the law

[oldgraybeard]

why should any company not fire any employee who refused to do the assigned work. If it is legal and part of the job.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Re:If it is not against the law

[gweihir]

They need them and they are, in this case, not easy to replace? You completely misconstrue the situation. Typical submissive personality. Not everyone is like that, fortunately.

Re: If it is not against the law

[Anonymous Coward]

When an employee actively interferes with the ability of a company to enter a market or participate in a current one, it's time to send that employee packing. Dismiss the most egregious ones and the rest will rethink their position or leave. Either way they can always be replaced. It may cost more in the short term but will leave you with a better workforce. Knuckling under to worker demands over any legal product choice only emboldens them to make more. There CEO decides what product to sell not the peons. Don't like it? Start your own company.

Re:If it is not against the law

[Actually, I do RTFA]

If it's one employee, maybe. If it's a large percentage of your employees, maybe the new work isn't worth replacing a large chunk of your workforce.

Who

[alternative_right]

Right now it seems that the right in power would really love to censor those who are trying to prosecute those who act against social standards.

Who do you have in mind here, and how are they censoring them?

Re:Who

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Scratch that, this is even better. Social standards, my ass..

Google's Being Pretty Evil

[Greyfox]

For a company whose first rule was "don't be evil," they sure have being pretty evil lately. I wonder if some of those Google employees are now asking themselves if they want to keep working at a place where they've had to revolt twice in less than a year (The first one being over AI in military contracts.)

Test it first

[Anonymous Coward]

on the Americans. Then you can ship.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[CaptainDork]

... breitbart ...

Is Alex Jones irrelevant?

As a business owner

[Anonymous Coward]

I would fire people refusing orders of work

Google

[Anonymous Coward]

The crazy left WANTS the censorship here. Not in China. Cant you execs get it right? China is already communist and has censorship. Duh! /sarcasm

Slashdot is totally corrupt along with all big tec

[slashdot_is_fake]

Note the total lack of the biggest tech story in months, if not all year: the deplatforming of Alex Jones. How totally outrageous it is for Slashdot not to run any story about it. It's been a major topic of discussion dead square in the center of Slashdot's subject matter. You can't let that one slide without making some kind of judgement, unless you're truly brainless. There is a conspiracy against free speech, especially conservative speech, perpetrated by all of big tech and the main stream media working in unison. You would have to be brain dead not to be suspicious and perhaps reconsider your stance in politics, because this conspiracy is as filthy as they come and is slapping you in the face. The brazenness of this conspiracy is getting to be unbelievable. It's like the perpetrators are completely confident that thinking people are a total non-factor. The economy relies on 'tech' workers more than any other. YOU have power, so long as you are willing to stand up. If educated people with the wits to see what's going on would leverage their value to the economy (i.e.: mass strikes) we could ensure a functional democratic process. Will you choose to be a non-factor when the time comes?

Slashdot + Big tech = Totally Corrupt

[slashdot_is_fake]

Note the total lack of the biggest tech story in months, if not all year: the deplatforming of Alex Jones.
How totally outrageous it is for Slashdot not to run any story about it. It's been a major topic of discussion dead square in the center of Slashdot's subject matter.
You can't let that one slide without making some kind of judgement, unless you're truly brainless.

There is a conspiracy against free speech, especially conservative speech, perpetrated by all of big tech and the main stream media working in unison. You would have to be brain dead not to be suspicious and perhaps reconsider your stance in politics, because this conspiracy is as filthy as they come and is slapping you in the face.

The brazenness of this conspiracy is getting to be unbelievable. It's like the perpetrators are completely confident that thinking people are a total non-factor.
The economy relies on 'tech' workers more than any other. YOU have power, so long as you are willing to stand up. If educated people with the wits to see what's going on would leverage their value to the economy (i.e.: mass strikes) we could ensure a functional democratic process.
Will you choose to be a non-factor when the time comes?

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[Anonymous Coward]

"Bigot" means you are intolerant of other peoples views.

You are a bigot.

I hope you are not fired from your job for expressing your horribly bigoted views. But if it does happen I can only hope you will find the irony as delightfull as you do when other people who you disagree with are fired from their jobs.

Re:Slashdot is totally corrupt along with all big

[robsku]

Man, you're just full of hot air, ain't you?

An encouraging development, but

[Sqreater]

Futile. The force of business is such that the massive Chinese market will eventually determine the course of events, and the blowback from China will become greater and greater. Google may try to separate out the West and the East, but eventually China will demand changes even in Google's Western attitude and programming. Or, just the expense and difficulty of maintaining two worldviews and code sources will cause Google to eventually make a business decision to make the Chinese way the only way. More than likely both of these things will work together to make Google a force for oppression and denial of freedoms and rights in the West. But hey, it's nothing personal, just business.

One fact is clear

[Jerry]

The Google employees understand and appreciate the 1st Amendment, but the owners and managers, and their lackeys, do not.

tooo many

[Anonymous Coward]

Too many MING BAI,

Crush them all..

ha, I find it interesting.
One of the biggest tech giants in the werld, cant control its employees. Whom has Whom Hostage?
Apple, Trillion dollar company, bitching and moaning about paying taxes on their success.. What kind of community involvement is that?

Ah, Omarosa.

[alternative_right]

But Omarosa Manigault Newman’s new book, “Unhinged: An Insider’s Account of the Trump White House,” released this week, could make it difficult for Trump Jr. to change the narrative about himself anytime soon.

In it, the former White House aide alleges...

I stopped reading there. Gossip is not fact.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[Anonymous Coward]

Smash yo Trotsky-slut face ... bitchboi ... boohoo ...

Brin called progress ..........

[Anonymous Coward]

Brin called progress in the country "slow-going and complicated."
Complicated?
That's what you call it when your conscience speaks up?
Get a fucking grip Sergey Brin, China is a fucked up dictatorship. Do not suck their balls.

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[Atomic Fro]

They are becoming the corporate equivalent of the Evergreen College. The investors should be calling for Pichai's head. The employees in non-leadership positions should not be dictating the company's direction by mob rule.

Ethics Are Easy! NO CHINKS OR SAUDS.

[Anonymous Coward]

Only do business with Democracies. Dictaitors are our enemies and the enemies of their own people.

DEAD CHILDREN ARE ACTORS

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you and fuck Alex Jones. He's going to lose all his money for lying about those DEAD CHILDREN KILLED BY ANOTHER WITH A GUN. And fuck you again for supporting that piece of shit. Youre garbage.

Re: You Sound Like A Slave

[Anonymous Coward]

What a surprise you only have two cents. Peon.

Re: Wah Wah Wah All The Way Home

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey cry smore little piggy, it BIGLY makes you look like the real world leaders you are. KEKEKE

Buy your own servers faggots!! There a no free rides on the internet you fucking mongoloid.

Re:Slashdot is totally corrupt along with all big

[slashdot_is_fake]

Is this how you justify your total ignorance to yourself?
Brainless deflection?
If I'm full of hot air, at least I'm not totally empty

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[mrclevesque]

Quote context from the Breitbart article:

"A document brought to light by James Damore’s class-action lawsuit against Google and drafted by the company’s HR department instructing managers at the company on how to be “inclusive” cautioned managers against rewarding employees for traits “valued by the U.S. white/male dominant culture”, including individual achievement, and meritocracy."

Annotated Pachai quote

[93 Escort Wagon]

“I genuinely do believe we have a positive impact on our bottom line when we engage around the world“

Re:The employees only support censorship of their

[mrclevesque]

Traits of 'white dominant culture' :

https://media.breitbart.com/me...

Alex Jones = Totally Corrupt

[BrianMarshall]

Alex Jones is not "conservative" - he has made a profession out of being a fucking liar.

Re:Alex Jones = Totally Corrupt

[slashdot_is_fake]

If that's true it's totally irrelevant, you absolute pea-brain conflation artist.
It's a person saying their opinions in the public square being banned from the public square.

Obviously you're a brainwashed authoritarian half-wit who accepts any justification for your emotions, so I'm sure any argumentation is lost on you.

Re:Alex Jones = Totally Corrupt

[BrianMarshall]

When the doctor says "Every Day", he means it. You start skipping days, and.... you get your post.

I am not commenting about whether Alex Jones should be banned from social media sites provided by corporations, or as your insane comment suggests, from "the public square".

I am just saying that the lying sack of shit is not "conservative".

Re:Alex Jones = Totally Corrupt

[slashdot_is_fake]

You have no argument whatsoever. You are not a man.

Is there any cure for corporate cancer?

[shanen]

For a company whose first rule was "don't be evil," they sure have being pretty evil lately. I wonder if some of those Google employees are now asking themselves if they want to keep working at a place where they've had to revolt twice in less than a year (The first one being over AI in military contracts.)

Yes, there are still some legacy anti-evil people embedded within the corporate cancer known as the google. Unfortunately, I'm not actually surprised to find so little insight on Slashdot into the deeper issues. Didn't need any more evidence that Slashdot has become part of the problem and no part of any solution or solution approach...

Also miss the "funny" comments of yore. Funniest diversion in this discussion was the stuff about not tolerating intolerant FAKE conservatives. It's like no one has ever heard of Popper's Paradox of Tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

At this point I'm beginning to abandon all hope. Evil is going from triumph to triumph. The google of evil faces a crucial FAKE problem. No amount of money can solve the fake problem of insufficient profit, but in pursuit of more money they have to get those Chinese gen, and the only question is if they passively comply with the Chinese censorship or the google will actively work to help the Chinese deliver improved forms of censorship and intolerance to their victims AKA Chinese citizens.

Re:Slashdot is totally corrupt along with all big

[TigerPlish]

Note the total lack of the biggest tech story in months, if not all year: the deplatforming of Alex Jones. How totally outrageous it is for Slashdot not to run any story about it

Did *you* submit a story about it? No? STFU.

Did *you* upvote any that were submitted in the Firehose? No? Then STFU.

Slashdot, like any other media company, publishes what it wants, not what *you* want.

The First doesn't apply to anything BUT the government. People forget that.

AFAIK, Jones still has his website. He still has a microphone. That he's not on Facetwat and apple podcasts.. boohoo, cry me a river. He still has a way to express himself, his website.

And by the by, when the message is screechy and paranoidy and gives all sorts of impressions of mental unstableness, youbetcha people are gonna mod it down, turn it down, turn it off, pull the plug, change the channel, stop the camera, stop the press, do whatever to mute it. That's not censorship, that's people trying to retain a semblance of sanity by controlling the screeching noises reaching their brains.

Maybe if the message were presented less horror-show it'd find a wider audience, no? Pro tip: If it reads like the front page of The Enquirer, you're doing it wrong.

Free Tibet

[Anonymous Coward]

End the Chinese Occupation of Tibet and any company that does business with China, which entails it is colluding.

Re:Slashdot is totally corrupt along with all big

[slashdot_is_fake]

Oh it's my personal responsibility to make up for the editor's censorship, since I have the complaint.
The media has a SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY to present relevant facts.
Usually the users know this and pressure them for this, since knowing the truth is of the utmost importance.
Usually people aren't completely brainwashed to the point of mental retardation, as in your case, and realize this.

You have no concept of principles, only practice. You don't care about the PRINCIPLE behind the first amendment. You only care about the TECHNICALITIES.
Your entire approach to this situation is motivated by justifying the emotions that you assumed from media cues, hence my accusation of brainwashing against you.

Alex Jones was voicing his opinions in the town square, and we was banned from the town square. If you can't admit that you're dishonest or mentally disabled, or in your case, both.

You are an absolute half-wit reprobate.

Confusing strategy with ideology

[alternative_right]

Conservatives are spearheading voter suppression efforts at the activist level (targeted mailings to minorities with misinformation) at the local level (purging voter rolls that affect 99% minorities) and the state level (explicit gerrymandering along racial lines). Explicit immigration policies that aim to let in 99% white people.

The Hart-Celler act changed American immigration to be mostly third-world in origin because third-world origin people vote consistently Leftist, even when it backfires on them multiple times, as in Venezuela. The American Left wanted a permanent majority; the American public Right is attempting to counteract that.

The Old Right simply opposes diversity. We would have sent the Indians back to Mongolia and the Africans back to Africa, never allowed in the Southern, Eastern, or Irish Europeans, and would have repatriated German Jews to Israel. That is workable policy; diversity and genocide are not workable policies.

Significantly large groups of conservatives are explicitly anti-woman. Let's not discuss abortion, just talk about the hostility to women's reproductive health and even birth control.

Conservatives oppose abortion because it trivializes life by making it socially acceptable to kill for sexual convenience. We also recognize that sexual liberation leads to broken families.

If your definition held in today's society, I'd probably identify as one.

I do not think so, based on your statements above. You are most likely a "classical liberal" who holds Leftist social views.

Re:Confusing strategy with ideology

[hdyoung]

First, let me translate your post. You just explained how conservatives feel that women can't have the same sexual rights as men because it leads to broken families. Oh, and the part about how diversity is bad, and then you listed pretty much everyone except northern Europeans as people who should have been kicked out of the US.

First off, I'd love to get some input from other self-identified conservatives. Is this....... is this really the current conservative way of thinking? Is this guy actually describing the conservative movement accurately? Is this guy actually describing the views of a typical GOP member?

Ok, now onto the logic of your argument. Your original post claimed that conservatives are egalitarian in political and societal areas. I pointed out several "1000 pound gorilla in the room" examples indicating otherwise. Your response was to explain to me exactly why conservatives have these non-egalitarian views. This is the exact opposite of your original assertion. Your explanations were clear and coherent. It's obvious that you're opinions have some real thought behind them. I respect a person who thinks before they speak/type. But, to repeat, those positions are the exact opposite of egalitarianism. Huge inconsistency there.

My personal views - left of center on social issues, more centrist on governmental issues. Far right AND far left governments both have a tendency to wreck countries.

Separating reality from propaganda

[alternative_right]

Except for gay marriage, voting rights, felon disenfranchisement, prayer in school, mandatory standing for the national anthem, etc. And, depending on where the line is drawn for "most conservatives", active and vocal parts are significantly against equality with regard to gender, race and religion.

And yet they can be egalitarian in other areas. How many will talk openly about the bell curve or the IQ/wealth of nations?

Conservatives are not in favor of equality; to us, it is a mistaken value. We like what works, and that requires studying a bit of history instead of airy theory made up in a laboratory setting.

I've never heard of anyone serious wanting enforced equality.

I see you are unfamiliar with Civil Rights law, affirmative action, and of course the long history of the Left from the French Revolution onward. Those are some interesting areas for future reading.

Natural Rights versus Civil Rights

[alternative_right]

They're saying free markets create equality based on ability and skill, and they're against using the state to force equality. I.e. gender quota's, race quota's, and so on.

America was founded on a natural rights ideal, i.e. "all men are created equal" means you are born as equal as you are going to get, and it is not the job of government to enforce equality or equity.

Starting in the 1870s, but really picking up after WW2, the American government dedicated itself to Civil Rights, a regime in which government enforces equality on all people as an ideological platform.

It helps for people to know the difference between Right and Left when interpreting this distinction. Left = egalitarianism; Right = realism + transcendentalism.

Third world USA

[alternative_right]

Most "civilized" countries consider yours already on that level ... except for places like most of California and some selected city centers.

Huge parts of the USA are third world, I agree. There are whole areas in Los Angeles, Detroit, Houston, New Orleans, and even Chicago that look like Mexican suburbs and are appropriately bullet-pocked.

Europe is following our policy example and is quickly achieving the same. Then again, this is not new history; remember the Arab quarter in Paris from the turn of the century. Or even the Turkish slums of Berlin.

Re:Third world USA

[angel'o'sphere]

Berlin has no and never had turkish slums. Or any slums for that matter. I doubt you find a european city with slums, perhaps in greece? But I doubt that, too.

The time of run down Arab quarters in Paris is long over, too. While they still have 'quarters' associated with 'origin' like China or India, those are mainly business related (a quarter with lots of indian shops and/or restaurants e.g)

However other frensh cities still have that problem, Lyon e.g or Bescancon.

US could be better, still better than most

[alternative_right]

If the US is so bad why in the hell are people risking life and limb just to get in?

Human incompetence is simply so vast that the US provides a better quality of life than everyone else.

We could be a lot better, and that really is the target. Competition blinds us to what we could have instead.

Re: The employees only support censorship of their

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. It's why I quit.

Reading comprehension

[alternative_right]

You missed the fact that if there are reasons for conservative ideals, they are not solely a question of egalitarianism. Remember, we are not ideologues like the Left.

Next, you seem to have further missed the point that my criticism of mainstream conservatives was that they were egalitarian at all. Egalitarianism is a Leftist trope, not a Rightist one.

Further, American was founded and pioneered by Western Europeans, so of course we favor the founding group.

Far right AND far left governments both have a tendency to wreck countries.

This is why the Right generally opposes the state. You will find that the "far Right" usually consists of Leftist hybrids like Fascism or National Socialism.

Figures

[spkay31]

I guess it wasn't highly censored enough to make the socialist and communists working at Google happy.