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China Aims To Narrow Cyberwarfare Gap With US (zdnet.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the two-can-play-that-game dept.

According to the Department of Defense, China is looking to narrow the gap with the U.S. in terms of cyberwarfare capabilities. "The Pentagon report said that in recent years the Chinese army has emphasized the importance of cyberspace for national security because of the country's increasing reliance on its digital economy," reports ZDNet. "It said Chinese military strategists see cyber operations as a low-cost deterrent that can demonstrate capabilities and challenge an adversary." From the report: The DoD's annual report to congress (PDF) points to a Chinese international cyberspace cooperation strategy in March 2017, which called for the expedited development of a military "cyber force" as an important aspect of the country's defense strategy. However, the U.S. report said that China also believes its cyber capabilities and personnel lag behind those of the U.S. and that China "is working to improve training and bolster domestic innovation to overcome these perceived deficiencies and advance cyberspace operations."

The report lists "cyber activities" directed against the DoD by China and said: "Computer systems around the world, including those owned by the U.S. government, continued to be targeted by China-based intrusions through 2017." It said these intrusions focused on accessing networks and extracting information, and said China uses its cyber capabilities to support intelligence collection against U.S. diplomatic, economic, academic, and defense sectors.

55 comments

  1. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Everyone is KILLING the US in cyber everywhere. Esp. China and Russia.

    1. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah there is no gap to be narrowed. China has infiltrated most major American companies and I have been part of dealing with that for one of the biggest. APT 27? Yeah, I know them.. there are more.

    2. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is your evidence to back up this claim? As far as I can tell it seems like Russia and China can't do anything without getting caught. And getting caught doing something really annoying to a powerful nation state just provides the coordinates for the retaliatory missile strike. And it also provides a target for those looking for their opportunity to express their nationalistic animosity towards the foreigners needing a good smackdown in the internet discussion threads. Besides Israel makes everyone look like rank amateurs when it comes to cyber warfare and intelligence capabilities. It's one of the biggest reasons the US supports Israel. They have been at war for 70+ years while surrounded by enemies on all sides trying to protect a land area smaller than New Jersey. Kicking the snot out of their locals is one thing but they also need to keep tabs on weak kneed pussies living in the commune known as the EU. The EU is still burdened with a large number of morons who do not understand that in a war the losers don't get to set the terms. You can't start war after war and then ask for a do over when you get your ass kicked. The Jordanians and Egyptians who got hung out to dry by their own countries in the aftermath of the 67 war and re-branded themselves Palestinians have as much chance of getting any land back as the Mexicans would have trying to reclaim the entire US Southwest as Mexican territory. The thing is it is really not that hard for a Mexican to successfully enter the US and disappear. A good number are caught but a lot of others succeed. This is SOP and has been going on for years and contrary to popular belief it has not caused any real damage to the US. Slipping over the Israeli border is a little more involved to say the least. And the disparity between crossing these two borders is that Mexicans have been successfully entering the US in great numbers because when they enter the country they aren't running at the first congregation of US citizens they see and blowing themselves up, shooting people, or stabbing anyone in the vicinity.

      Eventually state sponsored cyber attacks will need to be explicitly placed under the same MAD doctrine that have kept nuclear weapons in their silos all these years. And a nation state will always keep it's true capabilities under the radar and off the front page. Even to the point of letting some cyber intrusions to succeed but only up to a point. You save your real capabilities for big problems.

    3. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not reading all this shit you wrote but yes, they have active actors

    4. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, the best answer is: Does the company have any high-level Chinese nationals? If the answer is yes, then it's highly likely that any data that person has access to has been exfiltrated to China.

    5. Re:LOL by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I have only two words for you: La Raza

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  2. Bloody North Korea is trying to narrow that gap by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    you think China isn't? This is less than a non-story. What's annoying about it is that crap like this is why we've got a perpetual arms race. It's why we've got our president talking about a space force for Pete's sake. After all, we've always been at war with Eurasia...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Bloody North Korea is trying to narrow that gap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But does the US aim to widen the gap? All they want is to have tax cuts and kill the environment and have parades.

    2. Re:Bloody North Korea is trying to narrow that gap by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      IIRC, the divisions between Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia would mean that China, Russia, and North Korea are all Eastasia

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  3. Build A Firewall! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    And make the Chinese pay for it!

    1. Re:Build A Firewall! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chinese already have a firewall. The trick for us (U.S.A) is to get a copy of the configuration. That will tell us exactly where the Chinese spies are based, and we can block those networks that have no Great Firewall policy.

  4. Non-story by marcle · · Score: 1

    Every nation's military targets every other nation in every way, including the cyberinfodiginet. The only news would be if somebody had elected to forego such hijinks. Unlikely.

    1. Re:Non-story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be honest, with how badly the US handles their data, I briefly thought this meant China was doing just that to "narrow the gap"! ;)

    2. Re:Non-story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every nation's military targets every other nation in every way, including the cyberinfodiginet. The only news would be if somebody had elected to forego such hijinks. Unlikely.

      Almost.

      Every nations military plans and practices to target every other nation in every way.
      There are only a few cases where they are currently carrying out those plans.

      Someone carrying out a psy-ops attack against you (a.k.a propaganda war) isn't something to shrug off.
      Wars doesn't typically end because you shot every single one of the opposition, but because they gave up.

      A country securing their computers and practicing people to carry out attacks against them is totally fine.
      It's when they start to target other countries that they need to be stopped.
      You can try to secure your computers but they are only going to keep trying and they only have to get through once.
      The way to stop civilian hackers typically involves the police showing up at their place.
      If you want to stop military hackers then you have to at least threaten to show up physically, and be willing to carry that threat out.
      Anything less is your permission for them to keep trying.

  5. Breaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DoD says adversary is getting stronger, requests bigger budget

  6. Sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You can't keep up with our own cyber team at destroying the US. Hands down we have the best at taking ourselves down.

  7. Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is amazing news. I never knew that they would be trying to narrow the gap. Now I do.

  8. Ambient Authority by ka9dgx · · Score: 2

    Stop using systems that are based on ambient authority to get work done, and this problem goes away... we figured this out in the 1970s, but seem to have forgotten that lesson.

    It is possible to build systems that are much, much harder to hack, thus making herd immunity high enough that worms and virii won't spread, no matter how clever.

    10 more years until people wake up enough to take action.

    1. Re:Ambient Authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capability-based security is bullshit. Give it up.

    2. Re:Ambient Authority by gtall · · Score: 0

      President Kelly: Mr. President, we have an Ambient Authority Problem?

      el Presidente Tweetie: No shit Sherlock, I need to take it every night just to keep my fingers off my phone.

      PK: ??? Errmmmm....not Ambien, Ambient.

      ePT: Damn, what did they have to change the name for? I'm confused enough as it is. Why is this a problem?

      PK: Some guy on Slashdot has pointed it out as a problem.

      ePT: What does it mean, man?

      PK: No sure, shall I bring him in for questioning?

      ePT: Sure, he'll confirm what I already know. I'm very smart, y'know.

      PK: Sure thing, Boss....(goes to Flunkie Central Command)...Order some Big Mac and shakes, he'll need a reward after that decision.

    3. Re:Ambient Authority by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      10 more years until people wake up enough that government takes action.

      Fixed that for ya.

      What's the ol saying, never let a crisis go to waste or some such?

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  9. Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mr. President, we cannot allow a cyberwarfare gap!

    AC

    PS - When Ronald Reagan was inaugurated, he was taken on a tour of the White House security apparatus, and this guy, who had been an actor (and President of a Union) asked to see the 'War Room'. It had to be gently explained to the leader of the free world that there wasn't one, the difference between fact and fiction. No wonder he's still worshipped in certain political circles.

    1. Re: Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation, please.

    2. Re:Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Tablizer · · Score: 0

      The Orange Guy would say, "But I want shiny lights and Star Trek screens! And a big logo, 'Space Force'! And cup-holders, don't forget the cup-holders. Putin has great cup-holders, believe me!"

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    3. Re:Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      So we can build the situation/war room every President from here on out is going to want anyway with just a few walls of screens and a comfy chair with cup holders and a big red "NUKE" button on an old WICO trackball?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Make it all fake so they can't do any real damage.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    5. Re:Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Yep. Just give him a 48 screen version of missile command on a real map background, tied to nothing.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:Dr. Strangelove was supposed to be fiction by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      For once his "fake news" complaints will be legitimate.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  10. So China is laying off people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the subject covers it.

  11. Treaties BAD no Profit by rtb61 · · Score: 2

    All this shit is down to US contractors, treaties bad, not profit for doing worthless shit. No attempt to prevent this issue, just insane greed driven demands by US tech corporations to accelerate this to internet collapse and that is where it is going, billions wasted to eventually collapse digital communications because more fucking profit for the war industrial complex contractors. The most insane faction, in the factionalised US system of corporate controlled government governance, each group of corporations looking to suck as much out of the treasury as possible whilst of course paying zero taxes.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    1. Re:Treaties BAD no Profit by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

      Did this stream of consciousness word salad have any point, Grandpa? I think it's naptime.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  12. So, just doing their job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, how stupid would they be if they are NOT preparing against US aggression on that front?

    1. Re: So, just doing their job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US aggression?

      Is that why the Chinese now have all my info including my fingerprints when the Chinese hacked the OPM?

      Fucking Chinese shill. Go die, scumbag.

  13. Who wants to see the pix on Xi's iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody actually, he just seems to like furniture for some reason.

  14. China is already leading on defense by shanen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The story is not very well written. Should I cite the best book I've read on the topic? I bet no one cares within the context of today's Slashdot.

    Anyway, the story is obviously about offensive capabilities, where the Chinese have lagged behind. Amusingly enough, a lot of that is because of the language problems, mostly the human languages, but also the computer languages, especially as related to the inaccessible source code. Right now it seems clear that the leaders in offense for cyber-war are the Russians.

    On the defensive side, the Chinese are probably the leaders. They have the Great Firewall of China as a fairly serious line of defense and they think (and have always thought) in terms of partitioning and isolating and controlling their networks. Not just the computers, but the human networks, too. However it is probably more important that their society is less dependent upon computers and therefore less vulnerable to cyber-warfare attacks.

    America is supposed to be one of the leaders in offensive capabilities, but the weaknesses on the defensive side are overwhelming. Almost no defenses and high vulnerability. Only tiny traces of defensive thinking.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:China is already leading on defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was about to put in much the same thing. China vs America in a cyber war? China hands down no contest. It would be like a kangaroo getting into a kicking match against a caterpillar.

    2. Re:China is already leading on defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Russia certainly leads in "active measures" -- immoral spy dirty-tricks campaigns designed to attack and undermine "enemies" from within. They've been at it since the days of the Tsar. The original 'active measure' was the racist forgery, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which is still being peddled as fact in much of the Middle East.

      However -- as far as we know however, Russia has not built anything that comes close to Stuxnet in terms of sophistication. The Russians are boorish, loud, crude and obnoxious. There is no word for "finesse" in the Russian language.

      In terms of defence, closed societies do have an unfair advantage. And with a fifth-column of technolibertarian idiots in Silicon Valley, helpfully stoked up by the Russians, we are doubly screwed, because the libertarian fifth columnists through their demands for ideological purity, are forcing us to fight with two hands tied behind our backs.

    3. Re:China is already leading on defense by mwfischer · · Score: 1

      While I appreciate your bitterness towards Slashdot Millennial Edition (tm) some of us are interested. What is the book, please?

    4. Re:China is already leading on defense by shanen · · Score: 1

      You surprised me. The one in my mind at that time was Cyber War by Richard Clarke. It's a bit older than I thought it was. Reviewing my records, I see Our Final Invention by James Barrat may include some relevant material and Wired for War by Peter Singer, which had more of a hardware focus. I didn't notice any others that I would recommend on this topic, though The Shallows by Nicholas Carr caught my eye, and I always feel that one is worthy of being recommended.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    5. Re:China is already leading on defense by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      You missed the granddaddy that turned us on to the concept of cyber war to begin with: The Cookoo's Egg by Cliff Stoll.

      Your list of course has more recent technology (the teenagers hired by the KGB were using a Commodore 64 with a 1200 baud modem after all...ancient history now) but the primary defense remains the same (limit bandwidth of attack profile and log everything).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:China is already leading on defense by shanen · · Score: 1

      Actually I read Stoll's book, and fairly recently, too. It fell off of the second search because the publication date was so old. The version I read was published in 1990.

      I also considered including several books about international spying, especially histories related to the KGB in Russia and the CIA in America, but I ultimately decided against the ones I noticed for similar reasons. Adversarial spy-craft, yes, but computers were not much involved in the old days. However, the NSA has always been deep into computers, so I should have included The Shadow Factory by James Bamford, even though it's already become another oldie-but-goodie.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    7. Re:China is already leading on defense by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I think the last time I read it was right before he came to talk at my college in 1991, when he was on the initial book tour.

      I think he only succeeded against the KGB because he is terminally ADHD and OCD. Was chomping down Hershey's bars on stage and throwing his slides around the room.

      But sometimes, that's what you need in a hacker.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  15. What about Russia ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the US complains about is 4D chess playing Russia. China :)

  16. Need international law - soon by joe_frisch · · Score: 2

    Cyber warfare has the potential be extremely destructive - collapsing economies, destroying means of production, destroying critical information, etc - and that is without the possibility of direct damage. I don't see cyber warfare as necessarily a step down in damage potential from conventional weapons, it may be a step up. Meanwhile various nations seem to feel free to launch cyber attacks, on other countries nuclear facilities, election systems and critical infrastructure, without any sort of declaration of war. Cyber weapons seem completely ungoverned by international rules of war.

    Its a type of conflict that could escalate very quickly, and which could cause so much damage to a country that a conventional or possibly even nuclear reprisal might seem warranted.

    "Rules of war" may seem pointless, but they have at least helped over the last century. There has been limited use of gas, at least by the major powers, no use of nuclear after WWII, no large scale bio weapons attacks etc . They don't prevent violations, but they help clarify what sort of responses might be expected after various types of cyber attacks

    1. Re:Need international law - soon by aberglas · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between the lights going out and being blown to bits. So not the same thing.

      The USA legitimized cyber war with Stutnex.

      Now, when those atomic drones get taken over by an enemy, things get more interesting...

    2. Re:Need international law - soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cyber warfare has the potential be extremely destructive - collapsing economies, destroying means of production, destroying critical information

      Nothing compared to the psy-ops capabilities.

      A war is won when the enemy stops fighting. I can't recall a single case where it was because all of them were dead.
      With a successful propaganda attack you can make the enemy back away before the fighting even begins.

    3. Re:Need international law - soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deceit is as natural to Russians as breathing. Deceit, spite, racism, hatred... the Russian national character in few words.

    4. Re:Need international law - soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Its a type of conflict that could escalate very quickly, and which could cause so much damage to a country that a conventional or possibly even nuclear reprisal might seem warranted.

      And because the Russians are a pack of crude, vulgar, reflexively dishonest peasants, led by gangsters and prostitutes... they won't know where to stop. They'll push, and push and keep pushing until somebody finally snaps and gives them a massive blood nose. Then they'll whine and complain about "Russophobia" and how unfair the world is to poor, innocent Russia.

    5. Re:Need international law - soon by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      LOL, your naivety is so cute. If the government has its way, developers and CompSci folk won't be allowed to work on computer without a security clearance and a history of military service. Computing now falls under National security and all that. Oh, and everything is backed-doored.

      Be careful for what you wish for, because you might not like the end result.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  17. Easy by thunderclees · · Score: 1

    The PRC and so the PLA has had an easy time of it since they make all of the electronics the US market consumes they have unprecedented opportunity to insert back doors in everything.

  18. It's about time. by drew_kime · · Score: 1

    Cyber is a war-fighting domain, just like the land, air, and sea.

    --
    Nope, no sig
  19. That's actually a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're all in agreement we need more cyber defenses. China is #1 for hacking us, trade tariff their asses off and build a good system. /still pissed they hacked/ripped off the new US fighter jet designs.

  20. Fighting our own shadows again. by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

    Wow, and what does that mean for America?
    It means STOP INTERFERING WITH CRYPTOLOGIC DATA!
    NO more back doors!!

  21. Caught your post on Cliff Stoll &... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Almost no defenses and high vulnerability. Only tiny traces of defensive thinking." - by shanen

    I got to speak to Mr. Stoll directly here on /. telling him his book (which my Dad gave to me to read AGES ago) inspired me. He told me "It's your turn to help make a better internet" so I told him I was already & his work inspired me to do APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux & BSD h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p &/or APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-1 32/64-bit for Windows https://www.google.com/search?...

    * I'm one of "the few, the proud" TRACES you speak of - it's about defense & more speed.

    APK

    P.S.=> He's 1 of my "technical/intellectual heroes" & our conversation's here (in case you're interested) http://it.slashdot.org/comment... (that's his response, mine are before/after) - it's NICE to find those you respect are good folks that wish you to do the same as they did! apk