Slashdot Mirror


Intel Details Cascade Lake, Hardware Mitigations for Meltdown, Spectre (extremetech.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Ever since Meltdown and Spectre were disclosed, Intel's various customers have been asking how long it would take for hardware fixes to these problems to ship. The fixes will deploy with Cascade Lake, Intel's next server platform due later this year, but the company is finally lifting the lid on some of those improvements and security enhancements at Hot Chips this week.

One major concern? Putting back the performance that previous solutions have lost as a result of Meltdown and Spectre. It's hard to quantify exactly what this looks like, because the impact tends to be extremely workload-dependent. But Intel's guidance has been in the 5-10 percent range, depending on workload and platform, and with the understanding that older CPUs were sometimes hit harder than newer ones. Intel wasn't willing to speak to exactly what kind of uplift users should expect, but Lisa Spelman, VP of Intel's Data Center Group, told AnandTech that the new hardware solutions would have an "impact" on the performance hit from mitigation, and that overall performance would improve at the platform level regardless. Variant 1 will still require software-level protections, while Variant 2 (that's the "classic" Spectre attack) will require a mixture of hardware and software protection. Variant 3 (Meltdown) will be blocked in hardware, 3a (discovered by ARM) patched via firmware, with Variant 5 (Foreshadow) also patched in hardware.

8 of 74 comments (clear)

  1. Hardware Mitigations? by ElBeano · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Use AMD instead.

    1. Re:Hardware Mitigations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Use AMD instead.

      Especially since we're mostly talking about servers here. When AMD's EPYC is on 7nm and Intel is still on 14nm++++ or whatever they are calling it, the choice will be a lot easier.

      Even Intel's 10nm doesn't appear that it will be anything like what they had previously told everyone (since they couldn't get it to work).

      If they could have pulled off the original 10nm plan, they'd be on a level playing field with the 7nm stuff, but it's looking more and more like Intel will be behind for a while yet.

    2. Re: Hardware Mitigations? by zilym · · Score: 2

      I hate it when people carelessly claim that ARM is just as vulnerable as AMD and Intel.

      None of the ARM CPUs in my tablets and smartphones incorporate speculative execution, and thus, are immune to these attacks.

      A few high performance ARM cores have speculative execution and are theoretically vulnerable. However, the vast majority of battery powered ARM devices do not incorporate high performance ARM cores! Battery powered devices are more concerned about conserving energy than raw execution speed, so manufactures more often than not choose the more power efficient ARM cores that do not incorporate speculative execution.

  2. "OS/VMM" mean "Not Fixed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the slide in the FA, Variant 1 (Bounds-Check Bypass, one of the worst variants), Variant 2 (Branch-Target Injection), and Variant 4 (Speculative-Store Bypass) are all still relying on OS/VMM mitigations --- which means that Intel has done absolutely nothing to try to address them.

    Still. Broken.

  3. These are kludges, not fixes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Real fixes require a new security-first attitude at Intel, and a complete chip redesign based on that attitude.
    That will take many years to materialize. In the meantime expect to see more vulnerabilities to pop-up (already have) and more ad hoc fixes.

  4. Major concern by TeknoHog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One major concern? Putting back the performance that previous solutions have lost as a result of Meltdown and Spectre.

    It's like getting back the "A" grade you lost after they found out you've been cheating. Sure it's a major concern because now you'll actually have to work for your grade. Meanwhile, there are other students who didn't cheat in the first place. Guess which one I'm going to hire?

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  5. Bug by bug patches? by RhettLivingston · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This seems like an effort to stick a bunch of fingers in holes in a dam when the dam has a systemic design flaw. What are the chances that other problems will be discovered after tape-out of the new processors?

    These bugs are an indictment of the complexity of the speedup techniques Intel has used. With complexity comes extra design expense, reductions in yield, reductions in reliability, and now, security issues that were not very foreseeable.

    Adding more complexity in the form of changes to address all these little problems does not give comfort that the syndrome is fixed.

    This was serious enough to warrant going back to the drawing board and designing in changes that eliminate this class of problems, not the individual problems that we know of. This is a disappointing effort.

    1. Re:Bug by bug patches? by williamyf · · Score: 2

      If Intel completely reset the processor to its previous state after a failed speculative execution, then the processor would be immune to all speculative execution attacks--even speculative execution attacks that haven't been discovered yet. But it doesn't appear that that's what Intel is doing. Instead, their strategy appears to be to design a separate patch for each different speculative execution attack after that attack is discovered.

      What did you expect? It takes about four years to engineer an new microprocessor architecture. More if you are starting from scratch. I am 99% certain that right now, there is a team of Intel Microarchitects designing such microprocessor from scratch, we may as well see the fruits of their labour in something like six years (maybe more, if there are more slowdownd in the Fab side of things). But in the meantime, Intel needs something to sell, otherwise, the company would go bankrupt before that new microprocessor design is out the door, so, we end up with this.

      And before you think about going to some other manufacturer (AMD, Arm, IBM Power, Spark, VIA), remember that their processors are also suceptible to Spectre type attacks, so do a cost/benefit business case analysis before taking the plunge...

      PS: I favour AMD for servers (since this article is about servers) but there are many caveats beyond AMD's control that make it an uphill battle to use their chips. This has nothing to do with obscure machinations from Intel like in the early '00s, and fortunately will get better in the future, but, again, the thing is, do a detailed cost/benefit analysis before taking the plunge.

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!