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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store 'Tax' (bloomberg.com)
A backlash against the app stores of Apple and Google is gaining steam, with a growing number of companies saying the tech giants are collecting too high a tax for connecting consumers to developers' wares. From a report: Netflix and video game makers Epic Games and Valve are among companies that have recently tried to bypass the app stores or complained about the cost of the tolls Apple and Google charge. Grumbling about app store economics isn't new. But the number of complaints, combined with new ways of reaching users, regulatory scrutiny and competitive pressure are threatening to undermine what have become digital goldmines for Apple and Google. "It feels like something bubbling up here," said Ben Schachter, an analyst at Macquarie. "The dollars are just getting so big. They just don't want to be paying Apple and Google billions." Apple and Google launched their app stores in 2008, and they soon grew into powerful marketplaces that matched the creations of millions of independent developers with billions of smartphone users. In exchange, the companies take up to 30 percent of the money consumers pay developers.
Since you don't have to use their store. Just like Epic did with their game.
Apple's, however, is a real tax.
A little while ago, I was told by a Slashdotter if I don't like Apple's terms and conditions I simply shouldn't make iOS apps. Try telling that to these companies!
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Just sell only to Windows phone users.
Both of them.
Apple and Google are the abusive employer. Developers need to unionise.
....if they actually enforced their developer policies. Every day my competitors upload pages of 5* reviews for their apps, typically one to two words each (real positive reviews tend to be 1-3+ sentences). And the majority of my competition are copies of the same apps, differentiated only by various insane and obnoxious advertising strategies. Myself and my legitimate competitors have no recourse.
Are you sure you don't want to post about LUDDITE cows going MOOOO?
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
What's valve doing in that list? They have their own store (steam) which is their cashcow.
I think part of the problem is that, back in the day, it didn't seem all that unreasonable to pay Apple a 30% tax on the software you distributed. After all, they would host your app, provide a landing page, handle credit card transactions, handle the electronic distribution, and there were so few apps on the App store discovery was a snap. Because there were so few apps on the App store, it seemed reasonable to spend part of that 30% on a form of "advertising": after all, even something as stupid as a "fart" app that charged 99 cents could make its developer a millionaire.
Apple's gone through a number of redesigns of their App Store, and all have made discovery worse, not better. There are no "related applications", no systematic way for people to browse applications. Worse, on Mobile we lost the ability to browse applications for our phones on a desktop system; instead, we're left shopping for apps on what? A 5 inch screen that only shows you three apps at a time, max?
And it seems Apple's response to all of this is "get bent." Advertising, in other words, is the developer's responsibility. All Apple does--unless you're one of the lucky hand-picked few--is process credit card transactions and handle distribution. And we must now build our own landing pages, engage in SEO, and do the other advertising stuff ourselves--on the 70% left over from Apple.
Well, hell's bells; this doesn't seem like a toll worth 30% of each transaction. This feels like it's worth 10%--because Apple is not standing in as a publisher (who often takes a greater percentage of your income but also provides advertising for your product); they're basically a warehouse full of stuff. They are just doing fulfillment.
And heck, Amazon only charges about 15% of the product's price on average to handle fulfillment--and Amazon has to stock a warehouse full of crap and hire people to stuff boxes to fulfill your product. Apple simply hosts a bunch of bits on a server somewhere.
There's a clear hierarchy in the developer community. There's the people who actually write good apps, and there's scumbag imitators who shamelessly rip them off and load up their stolen versions of decent apps with borderline malware. Neither Apple nor Google seems to give a damn about this. Both app stores are awash with shytte apps.
So maybe it's time for the good developers to simply walk away. The downside to jailbreaking and rooting has generally been that you're losing security. But if the cost of being a bit more secure was that you only had access to the garbage provided by outright thieves protected by Apple and Google, more and more people would want to escape from their walled gardens.
I don't see that as a bad thing.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I believe that if your customer creates an account in the app (like via a "sign in or register" option) then you have to give apple a cut of the subscription. Same for in-app purchases. It's why for example Audible (owned by amazon) has you do all subscription and in-app purchases via a web browser.
It's really not that hard. I won't utilize Google's Play Store. I also won't purchase anything from Apple. My smart phone runs LineageOS and I utilize the Fdroid app "store". For the few apps it doesn't have you might have to do a little hunting on github. I mostly just use a few crypto wallets outside of what is in Fdroid. I also don't utilize Microsoft, Adobe, or numerous other products and services from other companies. I'm a fan of Uber-like services, but don't utilize Uber or Lyft, and not because they take advantage of people either. I don't want there dumb "apps". I won't utilize any product or service that makes me install a stupid "app".
Fortnite (by Epic) is a bit weird with that... the game is free and nothing you buy will give you any game advantage, they only sell cosmetic changes. I was surprised they sell character skins for $20 (and skining the mining weapon can be an extra $20) ... but now I understand that people are paying to have a custom appearance, and the price means you're not likely to come across another player with the same one. It's almost like having an exclusive skin.
As a Slashdot discussion grows longer, the probability of an analogy involving cars approaches one.
Since there's no way for any company to take a 30% hit, they'll obviously pass that cost on to the consumer of the apps. Maybe it should be all users that should file a class-action suit.
AC comments get piped to
If you want to do business, then you gotta pay the fee.
Yah, no. There are little details like consumer protection and antitrust, admittedly taken more seriously in Europe these days.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Capital cost on video games is so enormous, it's hard to get worked up about video game prices, especially for skins in free to play games. If it bothers you then wait for the discounts.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I write MacOS / OSX apps. Don't have any dealings at all with Apple's app store, nor do I plan to — really not a fan of Apple, the company, though I'm reasonably pleased with the computer (not phone) OS. Nor do I plan to "unionize", inasmuch as I'm not employed by them in the first place. Apple does not pay me anything, nor I them.
Tempest in a teapot, at least as far as MacOS / OSX goes.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Golf clap.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
A 5 inch screen that only shows you three apps at a time, max?
This is what happens when business or art majors dictate UI design-form over function. Business majors want to make every website/app/application look like a car brochure, and art majors just care about how pretty something looks. Out the window goes usability.
This tiling of 3-5 item per page design garbage is the worst user-unfriendly trend today, and it's not just found in Apples App store but you see it almost everywhere. Even on a 30" desktop monitor often on websites I see just a handful of giant square fracking tiles instead of a list of a couple dozen items so I can quickly skim over to see if something there is what I want instead of doing scroll-scroll-scroll-scroll or nextpage-nextpage-nextpage. The worst thing nowadays is we seem to put up with horrible UI design.
And by "list-view" I mean something what a spreadsheet looks like, and not one of these pseudo-list views that are 90% white space.
App stores are the ultimate safe spaces. You can trust in any app there.
On the other hand, traditional computers are the Wild West. You take your chances, based on your knowledge.
At what point do we admit that having a computer illiterate population using these complex devices is sure to empower abusive monopolies like Facebook, Apple, Reddit, Twitter, Google, Amazon, and Spotify (F.A.R.T.G.A.S.)?
Alternative Right.
or at very least an adults only and open political part of the ios store to at the very least stop ios content centership
I know who Apple/Google/Amazon are. If they suffer a data breach, they will be able to compensate me for the consequences. I have zero confidence in creators of Fortnite safeguarding my financial or contact info. I don't know about anyone else, but digital content only constitutes a small fraction of my total life expenses. Better write off 30% than p0wned. Plus I can't imagine building out your own payment infrastructure worldwide is free.
We did Mac Software since 2004/5 when Apple was nearly bankrupt. The AppStore only help new competitors who wanted quick money, and Apple takes the extra 30% from us when we already run a web server, and software update for a decade longer. Even dos not allow us to link to our 14-day free trial, refunds money immediately without even getting any customer feedback what was wrong etc. And they change automatic review each months: "reject because of old xcode version", "rejected because invalid binary", "rejected because no xyz screenshot", "rejected because this API function is deprecated", ... and sometimes uploads get just stuck or hang in the automatic binary processing scan process. Without the AppStore we did not had any of those nightmares, total waste of extra time and pain.
There are little details like consumer protection and antitrust, admittedly taken more seriously in Europe these days.
There doesn't seem to be any opportunity for "consumer protection" to have a role in this.
Recall that the iPhone when released had no App capabilities at all --- you could only run apps built by Apple.
To an extent that's still the case: there are private frameworks that only Apple can use, but they partially opened it up
to developers. Consumer protections don't apply to the relationship between Apple and developers of software on
their platforms. Apple can impose arbitrary terms on developers for access to their development tools, Certificates, and
for publication of Apps, For example: Apple COULD have specified that all Apps are free, and No developer can charge the customer
any money for the App or any Subscription or service related to it.
Apple didn't do that, But they would have the right to. Instead Apple allows developers to decide that an App and related services
will have a cost, BUT in exchange for that privilege --- Apple will receive a designated share of all payments collected; this is both to
cover Apple's costs of billing/payment processing, refunds, etc (Because they require all the billing be done through Apple), AND to
provide Apple profit in whatever amount of profit Apple thinks the market will bear.
Apple would be perfectly satisfied if the App was completely free though: Apple is not Fixing the price that consumers will pay, and
the developer independently prices their App and Services referred by Apple's platform.
Because Developers are businesses that sign a contract with Apple, and the cut of any revenue that Apple takes
is defined in part of the contractual relationship required before you begin developing a Paid app on Apple's store.
Paid up developers are allowed to build Free apps as well that don't cost consumers any fees at all. And Apple
only gets a cut if the developer decides to charge for the App or decides to be Paid by people using the app through the
developer platform and standard APIs which Apple has provided access to under the contract.
Assuming Apple is not deceptive in their marketing -- can charge as much for a product or service To businesses as they like:
developers are free to develop for a different Smartphone platform, or even built their own smartphone hardware, software, and app platform.
Apple doesn't have a monopoly on the manufacture of Smartphones Except what Government-granted Patents provide (And
Exploiting the Monopoly created by your government patents in any way is fully allowed), nor do they have a monopoly on Smart Phone App stores, nor Operating Systems or platforms that run smartphones. and End customers always have the recourse to refrain from buying Apple's hardware Or
iPhone developers' apps and find an alternative way.
This isn't an Antitrust situation either --- there's no business relationship created by collusion, etc.
Because Apple's platform is closed not like the PC: Apple's development software and services are technologically very
necessary for anybody to develop software that will run on Apple's hardware system --- It's not because of some
trust arrangement that developers cannot create iPhone apps without joining the Apple developer program and obtaining
the required certificates, software, and publishing through Apple..... Nobody else has come up with a solution to build and
run software on iPhones not hardware-modified or altered by a hack that defeats or disables basic security without using Apple's tools and systems
to develop the software.
It's free enterprise, if you don't like Apple or Google's business practices? Take your business elsewhere. Why is it that so many people are pro-free enterprise until someone else figures out how to make money at it?
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
this is both to cover Apple's costs of billing/payment processing, refunds, etc (Because they require all the billing be done through Apple), AND to provide Apple profit in whatever amount of profit Apple thinks the market will bear.
This is where antitrust watchdogs get interested, because of "market power". You're clear on that, right? If not, then please bring yourself up to speed before replying.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
people forget that in the world before the app store — you had to setup your own website, and promotion, and micro-payment transaction processing system. these were often onerous for small software developers who were at a significant disadvantage when trying to sell software online.
the app store gave you distribution — and micropayment transaction processing (that you could not obtain, since the credit card companies didnt want to deal with you unless you did a minimum of $30,000 in sales — which did not occur for most software developers.
geez. go back to the old system, and see how well you do.
I suppose the vetting process, then, is more designed to keep out apps from free speech sites like Gab.ai than it is to look for actually malicious apps? Terrifying. Then again, not entirely surprising given the monopolistic corporations involved. Thanks for posting that.
Alternative Right.