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Rechargeable Zinc-Air Battery Nears Commercial Release (phys.org)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the powering-up dept.

Long-time Slashdot reader necro81 writes: Reported in the NYTimes and in Phys.org: NantEnergy, a company backed by California billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong, announced Wednesday that it has developed a rechargeable zinc-air battery that can store energy at far less cost than lithium-ion. The technology avoids some of the downsides of li-ion, like flammability and the use of cobalt.

Unlike many battery-related announcements, this one is backed by real-world use. Over the past several years, NantEnergy has deployed their batteries for stationary, micro-grid and cell-tower use in nine countries — about 55 MWh of capacity so far. They claim they can now take commercial orders, for delivery next year, at less than $100/kWh of capacity, which is one-half to one-fifth the cost of available lithium-ion grid storage.

64 comments

  1. Re:Garbage by I++Love++BONERS! · · Score: 1

    I'll be the judge of that, LOL

  2. I hope they succeed by DanDD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    More economical energy choices are always welcome and I hope they succeed. I'll be eagerly awaiting the day I can 'add to cart' and have one delivered.

    Zinc-bromine flow batteries are also making inroads, and offer better economics and scalability than Lithium Ion:

    https://redflow.com/

    However, it will be curious to see if mass production for the electric auto industry makes Lithium Ion even more economical over time. Zinc-bromine or Zinc-air are likely never going to be practical for portable transportation, but Lithium Ion has demonstrated both suitability and workable economics for both transportation and fixed energy storage.

    --
    "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    1. Re: I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a zinc battery in my phone and it is wonderful.

    2. Re:I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if it depends on Cobalt thats really a non starter, Cobalt isnt that plentiful globally and usually depends on paying some really fucking corrupt supply chain

    3. Re: I hope they succeed by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone choose zinc bromide over zinc air? Bromine is toxic, like chlorine. Air isn't (supposed to be) toxic.

      --
      (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
    4. Re:I hope they succeed by isdnip · · Score: 1

      Lithium-ion batteries are inherently rather tricky to build. And lithium itself isn't all that widely available, though it's not exactly rare. Zinc, though, is so cheap they make pennies out of it. Lithium has higher density, but for stationary use, who cares? The competition might be sulfur-based batteries. But those run at very high temperatures, and don't scale down well.

    5. Re: I hope they succeed by DanDD · · Score: 1

      I wasn't advocating for zinc-bromine over zinc-air or any other technology. I was only pointing out how it, along with zinc-air, is also a possible alternative to lithium-ion.

      And I agree that bromine is rather nasty. Unfortunately, brominated foods continue to be produced and sold in the United States.

      I wouldn't be too worried about bromine in a battery as it is arguably less of an issue than lead, which is under the hood of every vehicle - including Tesla - and presents an ongoing recycling and environmental challenge. But zinc-air seems even better. Time will tell.

      --
      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    6. Re:I hope they succeed by dargaud · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They won't because the world's supply of zinc will be exhausted within a few decades even without the use for battery. Zinc is used as a coating material, and as such it is impossible to recycle. And there are only a few mines and potential mines on the planet... It's one of those base elements whose supply is already critical, I don't think they'll be able to ramp it up for mass production of batteries.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    7. Re:I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They won't because the world's supply of zinc will be exhausted within a few decades even without the use for battery. Zinc is used as a coating material, and as such it is impossible to recycle. And there are only a few mines and potential mines on the planet... It's one of those base elements whose supply is already critical, I don't think they'll be able to ramp it up for mass production of batteries.

      Link below claims 4 million tonnes were produced through recycling in 2010.
      Global production last year was 13 million tonnes.
      Question is how much zinc is required. A Li-on battery weighing 1000 lbs may only contain 10-20 lbs lithium
      http://www.egga.com/wp-content...

    8. Re:I hope they succeed by Zorpheus · · Score: 2

      I think the most important numbers here are: 250 million tons of zinc reserves, 12-13 tons mined per year. So we run out of zinc in 20 years at current mining rates.

    9. Re: I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would anyone choose zinc bromide over zinc air? Bromine is toxic, like chlorine. Air isn't (supposed to be) toxic.

      Chlorine isn't toxic when combined with sodium.

      I might be talking out of my arse here, but I suspect that zinc-bromide doesn't behave at all like pure bromide.
      If it did then what is the point of mixing in zink?

    10. Re:I hope they succeed by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wikipedia of all places has a very good explanation on why you're wrong:

      Identified world zinc resources total about 1.9–2.8 billion tonnes. Large deposits are in Australia, Canada and the United States, with the largest reserves in Iran. The most recent estimate of reserve base for zinc (meets specified minimum physical criteria related to current mining and production practices) was made in 2009 and calculated to be roughly 480 Mt. Zinc reserves, on the other hand, are geologically identified ore bodies whose suitability for recovery is economically based (location, grade, quality, and quantity) at the time of determination. Since exploration and mine development is an ongoing process, the amount of zinc reserves is not a fixed number and sustainability of zinc ore supplies cannot be judged by simply extrapolating the combined mine life of today's zinc mines. This concept is well supported by data from the United States Geological Survey (USGS), which illustrates that although refined zinc production increased 80% between 1990 and 2010, the reserve lifetime for zinc has remained unchanged. About 346 million tonnes have been extracted throughout history to 2002, and scholars have estimated that about 109–305 million tonnes are in use.

    11. Re:I hope they succeed by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      You are wrong in your thinking, because "zinc reserves" mean ores that are currently found and considered economical to mine.

      As wikipedia article notes, this is demonstrated in the fact that while refined zinc production went up 80% during 1990-2010 period, the "reserve lifetime" for zinc remained unchanged.

    12. Re:I hope they succeed by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Zinc is used as a coating material, and as such it is impossible to recycle.
      How retarded is that?
      Zinc is a metal.
      It is as easy to recycle as any other metal.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    13. Re:I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know a little about Zn vs. Li resources as a geologist. There are probably far bigger reserves of Zn in the world than Li and the grade of economic deposits is more flexible given demand and recovery techniques. Using Zn for batteries than galvanizing would set a higher price for the metal.

    14. Re:I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Zinc is used as a coating material, and as such it is impossible to recycle."

      I guess you have no clue how electroplating/stripping works, do you?

    15. Re: I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would anyone choose zinc bromide over zinc air? Bromine is toxic, like chlorine. Air isn't (supposed to be) toxic.

      yes, toxic like chlorine. You get it in your diet every day, and you'll die if you get zero bromine in your diet.

      Bromine gas is corrosive in the way that chlorine is, which is to say small doses are OK, larger doses are bad.
      I think it could be a problem if a large group of the batteries are enclosed in an unventilated space. If the batteries are failing and leaking bromine gas, and someone opening the enclosure to troubleshoot (for example, a box in a basement) could get a significant dose when the enclosure is opened.
      But otherwise I would not worry about it, but I would not keep a big stack of zinc-bromine batteries in my house any more than I would keep lead-acid batteries in there.

      I've breathed bromine gas. A student dropped a glass container of pure bromine (500ml) in the lab storage room between me and the door. I took a breath and told the student to get out now, and got a good whiff. The sensation was like using chlorox for cleaning.

    16. Re:I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well spoken. Atomic number 30. Friends with magnesium.
      Considered a metal and not rare on this planet we inhabit.

    17. Re:I hope they succeed by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Obviously. Which would cause rapid scale up of mining activities and technological development of extraction and refinement techniques to meet the demand.

      Which is exactly what quote I made above references. Attempts of direct extrapolation from current capacity to determine "when we'll run out" are as smart as the infamous "how many weddings cakes you'll need" extrapolation based on having your marriage day tomorrow. No, you're not going to need 365 cakes in the next year, and no, you're not going to run out of zinc just because current mines will run out.

    18. Re:I hope they succeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an important point. Looking as "reserves" of zinc isn't useful for figuring out how much zinc remains economically mineable in the earth's crust.

  3. Can they build battery walls by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    and bundle solar/wind powered charging, with AC inverters?

    Of course I'm paying something like $.14 a KwH from the electric company. $100 a KwH with my (non winter) electrical needs would take a long time to pay off...

    1. Re:Can they build battery walls by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      Typically solar power is dumped onto the wires, for use by factories during the day...... and then returned to homeowners by the Electric company at night when the solar panel is dark. Few solar users store the energy locally.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Can they build battery walls by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

      Few solar users store the energy locally.

      But *ALL* of them store it remotely.

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    3. Re:Can they build battery walls by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Typically solar power is dumped onto the wires, for use by factories during the day...... and then returned to homeowners by the Electric company at night

      The problem is that netting to grid doesn't scale. Power consumption is higher during the day, but actually peaks between 4-7pm, when many businesses are still operating, but many people are also arriving at home and kicking on the AC. So power demand peaks just as the sun is setting.

      There are several solutions:
      1. Storage.
      2. HVDC long distance transmission, so Arizona sun can power ACs in Florida.
      3. Flexible pricing. People will conserve if they save enough. They don't need to run the dryer at 5pm.

      We will likely need all of the above.

    4. Re:Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like believing that Social Security pensions work by storing money for decades then giving it you back. In truth the money is sent to old people, which is what we wanted to do in the first place, and that's it.

    5. Re:Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Store? Most excessive production is simply turned into heat. Both wind and solar excessive production.
      While renewables are feeding the grid, standby nuclear and coal is producing water vapor.

    6. Re:Can they build battery walls by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      There is also 4. Diversification of sources.

      In reality though, things work best with a mix of all of the strategies.

    7. Re:Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not in my area... more people are storing it locally because the power companies are trying to screw over solar panel users. Essentially they tried to charge one farmer $100 a month just for hookup and maintenance. Others want to charge a pittance for energy put into the grid, but charge nearly full price for getting energy from the grid... eh, no thanks. People that can afford $30k for a 20 to 30 KW solar array can also afford storage now.

    8. Re:Can they build battery walls by Oceanplexian · · Score: 1

      Or..you know..we could continue to build out nuclear energy. Then I can run my A/C and not have to 'conserve' based on the position of the sun or the direction the wind. And as a bonus, it's scalable so a generating station the size of a small office building can power an entire city.

    9. Re:Can they build battery walls by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Or..you know..we could continue to build out nuclear energy.

      Nukes are base load, not peakers, so they don't mesh well with renewables.

      The demand at 5pm can be three times the demand at 3am. Nukes don't produce that kind of variable output.

      a generating station the size of a small office building can power an entire city.

      Bullcrap. There is a lot more to a power station than just the reactor.

    10. Re:Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As more people get their own Solar the next logical step is to get a battery and then go off grid and give the power companies the finger.
      Yes, that final move of cutting the cord is expensive and risky but it is an already an option for a lot of people. A distant cousin has been off grid for the last 5 years. He uses old car batteries as his energy store. Two small wind turbines and a lot of PV keeps his home warm even in the depths of winter. Where he lives never had an electricity or gas or even water supply so he was forced to go it alone. Now he makes a living getting others 'off grid'.

    11. Re: Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You still believe that claptrap? Steam stores a lot of energy. Primitive designs don't store stream but it's not a big deal to put in 2 minutes of storage and that problem goes away.

      You probably believe that the grid was less stable before peakers, but you're wrong. The renewals trashed grid stability and packets haven't completely solved that.

    12. Re: Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      god damn you are retarded

    13. Re:Can they build battery walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $0.14 a KwH? Where the fuck do you live?

      I pay $0.082 per KwH and I have the misfortune of having the most expensive electric company in the state. Most of the others are south of $0.07. Of course less than 1% of my electricity comes from coal fired and other shitty non-renewable sources and the rest is hydro,wind,solar and nuclear in that order.

      numbnuts

  4. We have to stop by Tsolias · · Score: 3, Funny

    "powered by oxidizing zinc with oxygen from the air"
    Before the ecologists find out.

    1. Re:We have to stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "powered by oxidizing zinc with oxygen from the air"
      Before the ecologists find out.

      Like BURNING oil, gas and coal?

      Combustion, no one knows how it works!

    2. Re: We have to stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Combustion, no one knows how it works!

      Magnets and the spice melange.

    3. Re:We have to stop by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

      Combustion, no one knows how it works!

      The release of phlogiston.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:We have to stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when you charge it, does it emanate pure O2? If so, that would do wonders for my home office.

    5. Re:We have to stop by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "powered by oxidizing zinc with oxygen from the air" Before the ecologists find out.

      Zinc-air batteries are already in common use for devices like hearing aids. They put out a pretty good amount of power, but not for a long time. . And they are really cheap.

      What I am interested in is how a zinc-air battery becomes rechargeable. Zinc generally gets the proverbial crap beat out of it in a battery.

      I wish there was a little more detail in the press release.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re:We have to stop by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Combustion, no one knows how it works!

      The release of phlogiston.

      That's what she said.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:We have to stop by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      You might want to read up on Apollo I before charging a zinc-air battery in an enclosed space.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    8. Re:We have to stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just remember: phlogiston contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.

    9. Re:We have to stop by tepples · · Score: 1

      And sex in October causes cancer in babies.

    10. Re:We have to stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Combustion, no one knows how it works!

      The release of phlogiston.

      Yeah, right next to Krzygistan!

  5. Re: Elon fined $20 million, resigns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you mean âoeresignsâ?

  6. Can they build IoT batteries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The IoT of dryers.

  7. Zinc Air Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also known as a "capacitor."

    captcha: snakeoil

    1. Re:Zinc Air Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, a capacitor stores energy in the electric field, not in any particular chemistry.

  8. Power company time-of-day plans by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    Do I need to run the dryer at 5 PM? No, but what if I run it at 7 PM?

    The time-of-day plans I have seen offered by the local power company would require you to run it after 11 PM. I have seen no cost benefit to switching to a time-of-day plan without radical, not minor, lifestyle changes.

    Is my power company not sincere of wanting people to switch? Do they think some customers will switch because they cannot do simple calculations? Or are the lifestyle changes to make a meaningful difference with respect to the mismatch between solar and when electricity demanded deeper than simply postponing running your dryer a couple hours into the evening?

    1. Re:Power company time-of-day plans by G00F · · Score: 1

      Its the fact that their power bill does not end up changing(other than up), and now they are inconvenienced(to say the least).

      Lets say you change things, so you're using only 1/3 the power you normally use during prime, but get charged 3x as much, now in non prime you are using 2/3 of your power at 1/2 cost.

      Those are pretty close to what I remember from using it years ago. My power bill went up dispute the fact I did everything after 5(and really did less, because it wasn't enough time to do everything needed)

      Unless you are a household with no one home from 8am till after 5(and everything is off during that time), you lose.

      --
      The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
  9. Re: Interviewed here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry they fired a lot of fat people since then.

  10. Can anyone find any tech specs for these cells? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I looked all over their website, can't find any data sheets at all. It's very blurb heavy though which always ring alarm bells for me. Their link to nant.com bumping me immediately to nantworks.com was certainly... interesting too.

    I want to see what they're actually delivering. It's all well and good getting manufacturing costs down, but I want to see the specs stacked up against others so I can see its usefulness.

  11. How long to charge? by cellocgw · · Score: 1

    Completely missing from the press release - any mention of how fast these can be charged, and how fast they can discharge.

    The former is of some interest (!!!) to anyone thinking of using these batteries in a vehicle or portable computing device; the latter matters in some instances where peak power output is needed.

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    1. Re:How long to charge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know about charging, but zinc-air discharge rates are pretty poor. One proposed solution for electric vehicles is to have a small lithium-ion battery pack (or maybe even a supercapacitor bank) being kept charged by the larger zinc-air battery. This can provide the extra current for peak acceleration demands.

  12. Giga Factory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if GigaFactory can alter battery manufacturing from lithium to zinc without essentially building an entire new factory. Also, too lazy to look, but will these batteries weigh more or less than the lithium counter part.

  13. pH 11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if this thing is at pH 11 and is exposed to air... it will suck up CO2 like a champ: CO2 + H2O HCO3- + H+

    Leaving you with nice neutral solution with zinc carbonate caked on all the surfaces.