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An Open Source Resistance Takes Shape as Tech Giants Race To Map the World (factordaily.com)
Shadma Shaikh, reporting for FactorDaily: Chetan Gowda, 27, was speaking to a room full of students in IIIT Hyderabad for a workshop on OpenStreetMap for beginners organized by Swecha, a non-profit organization to support free software movement last month. There were close to 40 students in the room. Beginners often ask him: Why use open source maps when we already have Google Maps? For Gowda, it was the fact that Google Maps is a global, commercial product and did not capture local detail. Like the old banyan tree that was a major landmark in his hometown Hassan or public benches just outside the town where pedestrians could stop to catch a break or fire catchment areas in Bellandur lake in Bengaluru, India.
"It was fascinating to add little but important details of my town to open maps," says Gowda who was introduced in 2013 to OSM or OpenStreetMap, a global community of mappers formed as a collaborative project to create a free editable map of the world in 2004. Since then he has been an active contributor to OpenStreetMap and has conducted many workshops in colleges and institutes to induct more people in the community. Gowda has made 8500 edits in the OpenStreetMap, mainly covering areas in Bengaluru, Hassan and Hyderabad. Gowda and a few other contributors from India are part of a tiny yet growing resistance movement which doesn't want giant corporations to own all the mapping data. For the average consumer, this may not seem like a big deal. But mapping is big business.
The market opportunity for suppliers of mapping to the autonomous car industry is going to be worth over $24 billion by 2050, according to one estimate [PDF]. And that's just one industry. A study commissioned by Google in 2015 estimated that industries that run on top of the Global Positioning Satellite Systems and mapping generate nearly $73 billion in annual revenue. Worldwide, that industry is was estimated to generate $150- $270 billion in revenues. Although new research isn't available, with growing smartphone usage and the birth of companies such as Uber and many others it is safe to assume that the industry has only grown bigger. All the more reason why map data can't be held by only a few companies. With Google Maps beginning to charge small and medium-sized businesses and indie developers more for access to its platform, many have started to explore and switch to open source alternatives of Maps, and commercial services such as Here Maps.
Further reading: What OpenStreetMap Can Be, and Ten Years of Google Maps, From Slashdot to Ground Truth.
"It was fascinating to add little but important details of my town to open maps," says Gowda who was introduced in 2013 to OSM or OpenStreetMap, a global community of mappers formed as a collaborative project to create a free editable map of the world in 2004. Since then he has been an active contributor to OpenStreetMap and has conducted many workshops in colleges and institutes to induct more people in the community. Gowda has made 8500 edits in the OpenStreetMap, mainly covering areas in Bengaluru, Hassan and Hyderabad. Gowda and a few other contributors from India are part of a tiny yet growing resistance movement which doesn't want giant corporations to own all the mapping data. For the average consumer, this may not seem like a big deal. But mapping is big business.
The market opportunity for suppliers of mapping to the autonomous car industry is going to be worth over $24 billion by 2050, according to one estimate [PDF]. And that's just one industry. A study commissioned by Google in 2015 estimated that industries that run on top of the Global Positioning Satellite Systems and mapping generate nearly $73 billion in annual revenue. Worldwide, that industry is was estimated to generate $150- $270 billion in revenues. Although new research isn't available, with growing smartphone usage and the birth of companies such as Uber and many others it is safe to assume that the industry has only grown bigger. All the more reason why map data can't be held by only a few companies. With Google Maps beginning to charge small and medium-sized businesses and indie developers more for access to its platform, many have started to explore and switch to open source alternatives of Maps, and commercial services such as Here Maps.
Further reading: What OpenStreetMap Can Be, and Ten Years of Google Maps, From Slashdot to Ground Truth.
There is a point where some things are better left .. you know, explored. If you've ever been on the opposite end of a call where someone claims your business is at one location when infact it is not but they are looking at old or even incorrectly captured GPS coordinates, you'll understand. Or hell even a small rural road suddenly getting flooded with cars trying to avoid the highway.
Fuck Google maps. There's really no need to have that much data available and as some countries are now doing, it should be blocked / restricted on the grounds of national security. It's only very recent that we even have prisons removed from them. Lets NOT make it easier to fly drones into them mmmkay?
Add on Google Streetview and you allow stocking from anywhere in the world.
For Gowda, it was the fact that Google Maps is a global, commercial product and did not capture local detail. Like the old banyan tree that was a major landmark in his hometown Hassan or public benches just outside the town where pedestrians could stop to catch a break or fire catchment areas in Bellandur lake in Bengaluru, India.
"It was fascinating to add little but important details of my town to open maps," says Gowda who was introduced in 2013 to OSM or OpenStreetMap, a global community of mappers formed as a collaborative project to create a free editable map of the world in 2004. Since then he has been an active contributor to OpenStreetMap and has conducted many workshops in colleges and institutes to induct more people in the community. Gowda has made 8500 edits in the OpenStreetMap, mainly covering areas in Bengaluru, Hassan and Hyderabad.
This sounds like a really neat idea. However, I quit contributing to Wikipedia because of the nonsense that comes with it. It was very frustrating to see the constant edit wars on even semi-controversial content. To say nothing of really controversial pages. Or of the people who think they are "experts" on some topic trying to "correct" people who are actual experts.
Then there is legion of "we must add every detail of everything, no matter how minor" pitted against the legion "everything in Wikipedia must meet some arbitrary high standard of significance." And of course, everyone has to put up with the admins (I won't even get into everything that can go wrong there).
I can't help but think that while this will in the macro sense be a good thing for society and for democratizing information, part of the cost will be that you have to actually investigate the history of every thing that actually matters to you. I can also see how over time it will become increasingly difficult for people who want to make just one or two small contributions when there are others with nothing better to do than to "police" their favorite content full time.
I have and albeit being eminently usable, it clearly (and not unexpectedly) lags behind other big players alternatives when it comes to map updates and consistency in general. That detail alone ruins it for end users not engaged with submitting corrections and updates to the maps themselves (I'd say that would be 99,9% of users).
There's a reason Google and others want to charge for maps, and that's because having properly maintained maps is a valuable service. Navigation software can be frustrating with correct maps, imagine using it with maps that aren't current: all the value of modern GPS navigation is suddenly lost and you are back to reading street signs and paper maps.
How about "commodify" the world because that's what is happening.
I use OSMand, which is an Android app that uses Open Street Map. It works pretty well for navigation.
The best part is, unlike Google Maps, I can preload the entire maps onto my phone, like an actual GPS device, so I do not need a data connection to navigate.
Also great is the Wikipedia feature, which automatically pre-downloads Wikipedia articles related to points of interest. On vacation I can walk/drive around, click on interesting things on the map, read the Wikipedia article, and appear amazingly educated, without a data connection. It started to drive my family nuts in Athens as I described the historical significance of everything.
For Gowda, it was the fact that Google Maps is a global, commercial product and did not capture local detail. Like the old banyan tree that was a major landmark in his hometown Hassan or public benches just outside the town where pedestrians could stop to catch a break or fire catchment areas in Bellandur lake in Bengaluru, India.
I'm sure that matters to that person personally but that's a TERRIBLE argument in favor of open source mapping projects. If it proves important to enough people then Google could add that capability in a matter of seconds and then what is his complaint? There are excellent arguments why not having all your mapping data controlled by a few large companies is probably a good idea. They are similar to the arguments why having a decentralized internet not controlled by single entities is a good idea. There is money to be made with private control of mapping data but there is probably MORE money to be made if the data and core code is available as open source.
The problem open source mapping projects are going to have is funding and resources (especially people) unless they can get one or more big companies with deep pockets to fund such projects. You need satellite map, an army of people to pore over and process them, a huge amount of hardware, a well coordinated team to oversee the whole thing and write the relevant code, and a shit ton of money to make it all happen. Not saying it's impossible but it's going to be very challenging and such a project is already years behind what Google, Apple, and others are already doing. You're talking about a project that rivals the linux kernel or other major software project in complexity but requires a lot more people for data processing and hardware to actually function.
isn't that google India IP address vandalized OSM efforts? from OSM blog: https://blog.openstreetmap.org...
The changes to Google Maps licensing means that anyone using it has to pay a heck of a lot more money than they did six months ago. They also track your location.
Use other mapping systems and don't support the evil Big Brother Google.
And this effort, like every other open source effort will fail. Marxism and feelings always loses. Capitalism and meritocracy always succeed.
Well, now that Clinton has been accused of something evil, she is obviously no longer fit for the presidency until she proves that she didn't ever eat babies!
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
I've tried OSM and I may have developed an OSM resistance. Their database is great but the search is totally unusable.
Now? You're still in 1993?
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I would love for Google to charge $$ for Google Maps. Right now, they're completely unreliable, with API calls failing frequently. It's completely unreliable. We would love to have some mapping service that we could pay, so that we could have some sort of guaranteed level of service.
I don't respond to AC's.
Wrong. The Clintons ARRANGED for sex with babies. Or was it children? Anyway, this is okay now. Kavanaugh raped his way through choir practice and Yale. Do they practice choir? Is that like chair? If only Alex Jones could take some more of my money we could find out this, and more things we need to know.
I don't mean that a privately-made map is inherently public, of course, just that almost the only people who found it worthwhile to map were governments. Better put would be "inherently of low value, but to large numbers of people so that cheap access for everybody was the only way to pay for it".
A map has huge value when you need to find someplace new, but the huge majority of travel is to already-known locations. Cab drivers are an exception, but consider London, where "The Knowledge" required for cab drivers, is a memorized map learned on the job.
So there are very few indeed private companies mapping - the paper maps of your town for decades were just purchased data from the city government, sold for a tiny fraction of what it cost the city to make, because the city had to map every pipe and street anyway to maintain them. Indeed, to know where the heck the property lots were. (Land titles are generally a higher level of government, but where I worked, the Province had an agreement with the City to let the City map all lots inside its borders and provide that to Provincial Land Titles).
Google changed that with their cool car-with-8-cameras mapping, but generally also buys the City data because it's sold so cheaply - and is maintained every year, whereas you can see on the Google maps that the photos are only refreshed after multiple years.
For non-commercial use, City data is mostly free these days - "open data" initiatives became common years ago and they post up files in ESRI's "shape file" format (ESRI is the Microsoft of GIS, their formats are like MS office formats). There are also free standards like "KML" files.
Bottom line, there is no reason to let any private companies take over this space. The government mapping efforts have not ceased; the "value added" from information about business and services is *easily* exceeded by the OSM editing described here: people who live there will always have an advantage at highlighting local interests. (Also, the value of a location depends on who likes it, not "who pays google" to flag it.) The streetview is one of those features that's more cool than actually useful.
OSM is available for your phone, by the way, and works almost identically to google: uses your GPS to just show the map around you. Give it a try!
I yet to find something on F-Driod that is as good as Maps.
I don't know if this an app thing or a OSM, but the apps that use it cannot find my address.
http://progressquest.com/spoltog.php?name=Son+Of+Son+Of+DarkRookie
And that is why Gmaps works far better for drivers than those on people who are self propelled. Here in London, and even more in the countryside.
The problem is that autonomous cars need maps with this level of detail in the first place. A truly autonomous car should be able to integrate data from a basic map (i.e. line drawing of how streets connect converted to a node diagram in a database), GPS, street markings, and the outside environment in order to get from points A to B. After all, non-autonomous drivers do this with a set of less-than-perfect cameras and microphones, not even with IR cameras or microwave radar.
Now I know what the APK Host file dude thinks
Maps are becoming more important with the rise of autonomous vehicles. That's why Nokia was investigating the use of cellphones as means to keeping maps current, and accurate. One would also think with all the drones flying around the citizens mapping movement would be in high gear.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
I recall back in 1988, I was working for the US Census Bureau doing something they called a "Pre-Census Survey". They had maps with all their blocks configured. These were compiled from a large number of sources. City maps, State Dept of Highway maps, Planning maps, etc, etc. Was about 85% accurate. I was in rural WV and some of the things they listed as roads had not been roads for 100 years. Other areas were where the Dept of Highways had originally planned to re-route roads to, but never actually did it. We spent a lot of time correcting that.
A couple years later, I am in Colorado at CU working with GPS and GIS data. I recalled that the Census Bureau had done a lot of mapping and maybe it was online. And.. yes. It was. Has been online now for over 20 years.
https://www.census.gov/geo/map...
That is, as near as I can determine it's free as I just downloaded my county map with no issues. Pulling it apart, I see the edge info as well as the .shp shapefile.
This usually is the starting point for mapping efforts in the US as near as I can tell. Start with the TIGER data, then add or correct as needed.
Missed it by one!
Bet you were pissed...
Remember when Renaissance maps of the world were considered to be state (or commercial) secrets, the keys to Really Important Knowledge? Now a good map of almost anywhere is available for a couple of bucks. Important for when you need it but widely available at low cost.
Many GPS units now come with free lifetime map updates, which is a good thing.
However, I have a couple older GPS units that didn't come that option, a Tomtom and a Garmin.
My Tomtom is about 7 years old, the Garmin is 11 years old. The Tomtom is closed as far as free map updates go. However you can update a Garmin to a new map by putting an Open Street Map on an SD card and inserting it into the SD slot on the Garmin. Simple and sweet!
Although I like the Tomtom, my future purchases are going to be governed by a unit's ability to be updated with Open Street Map. My next unit will be a Garmin without a doubt. Compatibility with Open Street Map is a HUGE selling point.
My house is built on the foundation of an old water-powered factory. It was literally built to have water flowing through the basement, all the time, to feed the waterwheel.
But it does not ever flood, and has never flooded in over 200 years, because the water fed from an impoundment upstream through a leat (look it up) was completely controlled when the building was a factory, and the dam and leat were demolished before 1920. Without massive human intervention involving bulldozers, the stream will never reach my house again. But if it did, it would not harm anything, the water would just run through and out.
And prior to the recent FEMA remapping, this was understood, and so my flood insurance was required, but cheap. There was no reason to ever expect it to go up, either - the field below the house floods seasonally, doing no harm, but the house will never flood.
But since I bought the house, everything's changed; now my mandatory flood insurance is the highest recurring bill I have. It will go up 3% to 5% per year, forever, according to the government, so nobody will ever buy it from me. And still, it will never flood.
They need the money to rebuild the homes of people far wealthier than I... again, and again, and again, forever, because they rebuild them in the same places instead of using the disaster aid to move people inland.
At this point I'm not sure that APK isn't posting the "impersonation" posts just so he can respond back in an attempt to try to make himself look good. Too bad he just comes off as a nut job even if one just looks at his response.
See subject: his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & altering /.er's words.
c6gunner tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com...
So I challenge c6gunner to show he did better work than mine & he CAN'T!
YOU DEMAND PROOF of others here?
"I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?
So now I DEMAND IT OF YOU & YOU FAIL!
c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!
* c6gunner's LYING saying I did a MacOS X one - I haven't yet & c6gunner's LYING impersonating me hosts work vs. Intel CPU issues (spectre/meltdown).
APK
P.S.=> You say hosts = shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?
FACTS: /.ers & security pros + RESULTS say DIFFERENT:
1st: /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....
2nd: SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments....
3rd: REAL RESULTS w/ hosts vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments....
EAT YOUR WORDS!
Farmland floods, too.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Not here. High plain, good drainage, before paving it was fine. Lower elevations around here, yes.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Annoying.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I rented an apartment in an old water-powered mill building, where even the historic flood I lived through did not cause any damage. Even the telephone wiring was above even the worst scenario flood level. I know, I helped remove load coils so DSL would work, and then clean up much old terrible Nynex craft so ISDN would work.
Yeah. After 150+ years of operation, with no water in the working spaces, and another 30 years as an apartment complex, still it was never flooded. But I don't dare look at the flood mapping, because it's right there, next to the river, with the channel still below it, and FEMA undoubtedly used 'detailed methods' to determine the risk. That phrase is key. Remember it.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.