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US Air Pollution Deaths Nearly Halved Between 1990 and 2010 (eurekalert.org)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from EurekAlert: Air pollution in the U.S. has decreased since about 1990, and a new study conducted at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill now shows that this air quality improvement has brought substantial public health benefits. The study, published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, found that deaths related to air pollution were nearly halved between 1990 and 2010. The team's analyses showed that deaths related to air pollution exposure in the U.S. decreased by about 47 percent, dropping from about 135,000 deaths in 1990 to 71,000 in 2010.

These improvements in air quality and public health in the U.S. coincided with increased federal air quality regulations, and have taken place despite increases in population, energy and electricity use, and vehicle miles traveled between 1990 and 2010. [...] Still, despite clear improvements, air pollution remains an important public health issue in the U.S. The estimated 71,000 deaths in 2010 translates to 1 of every 35 deaths in the U.S. -- that's as many deaths as we see from all traffic accidents and all gun shootings combined.

134 comments

  1. It worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Mission accomplished! We can roll back all the regulations now!

    1. Re:It worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      All the ones on the books from 2011 onwards? Sure. They weren't designed to help anyone. They were designed to bring down a dying industry.

    2. Re:It worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TBH, I don't know if I trust this particular lying AC more than I do Trump. It's kind of where we're at as a nation, as a society. The lowest fucking common denominator of trustworthy opine.

    3. Re: It worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump can fix that I'm sure! Gotta keep the medical industry working.

    4. Re:It worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mission accomplished! We can roll back all the regulations now!

      We can thank all the nuclear plants that came on line in the 80s and early 90s for help in eliminating the need for more coal.

      Too bad we are too stupid to realize we need more.

    5. Re:It worked! by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mission accomplished! We can roll back all the regulations now!

      Yeah, it's kind of like the anti-vaxxer thing. Now that a whole generation has grown up without the threat of debilitating diseases because the majority of people got vaccinated and avoided those diseases they don't see them as a threat anymore. Maybe they'll learn better when their unvaccinated kids come down with the diseases but they'll probably mostly be lucky and avoid them since the vaccination rate is still over 90%.

    6. Re:It worked! by Rob+Y. · · Score: 2

      Or the voting rights act. John Roberts apparently thinks that, because Barack Obama got elected twice, there's no racial discrimination in voting any more - or none requiring Federal oversight. And then the next day, North Carolina enacted a voting law that was 'surgically targeted' to suppress the black vote. And this year, well the ostrich court thinks phony 'voter fraud' fears are a perfectly good reason to throw eligible voters off the rolls, etc, etc, etc...

      Ruth Bader Ginsberg, in a catchy turn of phrase, likened Roberts' stand to "throwing away an umbrella in a rainstorm, because you're not getting wet". But unfortunately, such logic does little to trump the naked political concerns of the SCOTUS majority that thinks, all things being equal, that "money == speech" is a more important value than "one person, one vote".

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    7. Re:It worked! by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      You're calling what comes out if the mouth of one of the four communists on the Supreme Court "logic". It's propaganda.

      The Supreme Court is supposed to render decisions based upon the legal merits of a case, not engage in senile political activism.

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    8. Re: It worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a new catchphrase: "Trump'll Fix It." No negative connotations there...

    9. Re: It worked! by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      Bringing down the dying industry helps way more people than propping it up. That's the difference between the "public interest" and the "special interests".

    10. Re:It worked! by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      Sorry man. When it comes to the Supreme Court, the biggest dose of propaganda you're gonna get is the whole 'originialism' philosophy. That's nothing more than a well-crafted fig leaf for a philosophy that more or less is happy with the power structure as it is, and so finds a juditial philosophy of resistance to change convenient. Except, of course, when it conflicts with a change they want to make - in which case some other lie will be crafted to justify a decision at odds with that 'deeply held' judicial philosophy.

      Ginsberg hit the nail right on the head with that quote - and your calling her a Communist (deep thinker, you) does nothing to refute the obviousness of her point - and the obviousness of Roberts' twisted logic.

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    11. Re:It worked! by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Calling anyone who has ever been a member of SCOTUS a communist is propaganda of the ridiculous kind, especially coming from a Nazi* like you. Either you don't know the definition of communist or more likely you're just using it as rhetoric to denigrate someone you don't like. In either case it has no relationship to reality.

      * Do you see, my calling you a Nazi is my rhetoric to denigrate you for your ridiculous assertion. But then I see you're promoting Ayn Rand in your signature so that explains a lot.

  2. Almost none since 2017 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Incredible!

  3. NOOOOOO\ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    This news isn't radical climate scaremongering! How dare you not spread the word that we're on the ragged edge of total clipocalypse at all times?! Gaia is angered! Our glorious Prophet Gore came down from the mountainside where his 4th enormous mansion was built, to tell us the many ways we have sinned. Lo! The transferring of our wealth to the poor and humble, for the world is indeed theirs, that is the only way into grace! The Church is going to need its cut, of course. Have to spread the word; denounce heretics, travel to important gatherings. Which happen to be held at 5 star vacation resort villages, obviously so we can see first hand just how threatened these majestic paradises are.

    1. Re:NOOOOOO\ by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Informative

      Greenhouse gases cause long-term harm to Earth. The pollutants that cause more immediate deaths are things like nitrogen oxides, hydrocarbons, and particulate matter.

      You can remove the three pollutants above and still emit CO2 and methane, which causes long-term harm to climate which will harm humans in other ways.

    2. Re:NOOOOOO\ by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Thou shalt have no other political parties before me.
      Thou shalt not make unto thee any other parties yard signs.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:NOOOOOO\ by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps it is because science is exposing what is. Climate change is real, however Carbon Dioxide which is considered the major factor in climate change, at current and projected levels will not effect our health directly, like with the other chemicals that are in smog, that we got good at filtering out.

      Despite the fossil fuel industry paid claims, the left isn't trying to get rid of your energy, take away your car. The do see science for what it is and wants measured regulations to slow down such effect, unfortunately fossil fuel is the primary cause. As we are quickly expelling carbon, that took these plants millions/billions of years to collect. However if we slow down fossil fuel consumption and replace it with alternative energy then we can slow down globabl warming, and allow the earth to heal some of its problems.

      But normal Air Pollution, is full of other chemicals that are directly bad for us, and we have little evolutionary strategies for dealing with.

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    4. Re: NOOOOOO\ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Affect

    5. Re:NOOOOOO\ by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Greenhouse gases cause long-term harm to Earth.

      It's hard to write anything sillier. How do you harm the Earth - send it spiraling into the Sun? If you want not to be ridiculed, write sensibly and name specific things on Earth that are harmed, and how they're harmed. The Earth itself is pretty much invulnerable.

      Humans generate nitric oxide internally; it's essential to human life.

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    6. Re:NOOOOOO\ by Namarrgon · · Score: 2

      Us. Human civilisation is harmed. So are a lot of animal and plant species. If you want a full list of the main ways in which things on the Earth are harmed (and occasionally benefited) by greenhouse gases, see here.

      Nitric oxide is present in human blood at concentrations of around 2 ppm - but exposure above 25 ppm is considered dangerous, and above 100 ppm will harm you in minutes. Also undesirable is how contact with water forms nitric acid, i.e. acid rain. And particulates are just as bad. Air pollution in general is still responsible for nearly a third of lung cancers and other respiratory diseases - we have a lot more improving to do.

      --
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    7. Re: NOOOOOO\ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the meme on Facebook VERY CLEARLY stated, "I Will Take Your Cars and Jobs", there was even a photo of OBAMA, very conspicuously not holding his BIRTH and BAPTISM certificates. If you want to convince ME a Muslim-Negro isn't here to plunder, you'll have to do better than that!

  4. Coal is dead by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a labor-intensive, dirty way of extracting energy from Mother Earth. It wasn't killed by regulations, either. It was killed by labor costs, and the final death knell was cheap natural gas from fracking.

    Also, many coal jobs were utterly shitty. Imagine being the poor schmoe who drove a steam engine or shoveled coal into the boiler. Sounds romantic? Now imagine standing in a cab when it's 100F outside and 120F in the cab. Turn some valves while watching for signals and danger ahead, or shovel enough coal per minute to power a freight train in these conditions...

    1. Re: Coal is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, soon, it was killed when the Obama administration stonewalled all coal permits for 6 years. You can't ruin a biker you're not allowed to fix, and you won't invest in a field that's run by crooks. Obama's watt on coal was won by the bureaucracy.

    2. Re: Coal is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, soon, it was killed when the Obama administration stonewalled all coal permits for 6 years. You can't ruin a biker you're not allowed to fix, and you won't invest in a field that's run by crooks. Obama's watt on coal was won by the bureaucracy.

      The pugs are rather fond of: "The ends justify the means", they should love the hell out of that.

    3. Re:Coal is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Running a steam engine is fun. RUMMM...RUMMMM ... like running-down SJW Trotsky-slut gaffots who come protesting ... blood all over ... RUMMM ... RUMMMM ...

  5. Moved factories to China by AHuxley · · Score: 0

    No more work in the USA so no more industrial exposure to investigate.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Moved factories to China by dcw3 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that manufacturing jobs in the US have been on the rise since 2010...
      https://data.bls.gov/timeserie...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    2. Re:Moved factories to China by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a flaw in your argument.
      You just flat out wrong.
      The industrial economy in the United States has continues to be top in the world. While labor costs in the US may be higher, labor in the US is much more efficient. Many of these jobs that have been outsourced to other countries on the individual company may had been from some penny pinching, but many had found it wasn't as good of a deal as they thought. Also a lot of foreign countries will move their manufacturing in the US as well.

      Now such a perception is because manufacturing is very closely tied to the state of the economy + hiring a lot of low-mid skilled workers (that creates lower turnover cost) means these industries will often be first to take a hit during an economic hit, thus getting all the stories of layoffs.

      Raised in a blue collar family, I understand the tension that happens, and why my parents pushed me to go to college and get a degree. So now I am a few levels up. Where recessions will need to last a big longer until I am affected. However this had always been the case. However after WWII where the rest of the world was rebuilding, the US had a near monopoly, so such cuts in manufacturing didn't happen.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Moved factories to China by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      It's possible for both things to be true - if the dirtiest manufacturing jobs all got exported and replaced with cleaner ones.

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  6. Crank up the coal! by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With all the other progress being rolled back by this government, we may as well start indirectly killing people in order to prop up an industry well into death spasms already. But hey, you'll win the electoral votes from West Virginia and Kentucky!

    Oh wait, you would have anyway.

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  7. More of this by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The war against CO2 is sadly overwhelming the real war we should be fighting, the war against emissions and real pollution.

    Luckily as we can see emissions have naturally gotten a lot better, and with the inevitable switch to more electric cars along with improved ICE emission control tech in the next decade we should see even greater improvement...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:More of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Emissions have not "naturally" gotten better.

      They got better because the government passed laws saying "Meet these mileages by these dates."

      Pollution did not "naturally" get better.

      It got better because the government said "Reduce emission of particulates, NOx, SOx, and other crap to the following levels by the following years."

  8. The Coal Age by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was a kid, we had a coal fire, and you'd shovel coal onto it hourly to keep the house warm. It was a PITA to light in the morning. When you went out, and came back to the house, the house was cold. You'd try to revive the embers and the house would take an hour or two to warm up.

    Diesel trains had already replaced coal fired steam engines. There were still some coal fired power stations, and quite a few blackened buildings/lungs around those.

    That was the age of coal. Long gone.

    You can see Murray *Energy* trying to revive it with PAC bribes and revolving door EPA officials and marketing MEMES, but even old man Murray calls his company Murray *Energy* and not Murray *Coal*. Even his own company name shows, he's ashamed of coal.

    Trump can pretend coal is "clean coal", but there's no way he'd let a coal fire power plant near his hotels or golf courses.

    1. Re:The Coal Age by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure showed those greedy politicians, grandpa. They'll never stand up to your blinding self righteousness.

    2. Re:The Coal Age by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure showed those greedy politicians, grandpa. They'll never stand up to your blinding self righteousness.

      ooooo... back in the day, we kids were lucky if we got a single piece of coal for christmas each year

    3. Re:The Coal Age by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You actually had a Christmas every year? You lucky bastards.

    4. Re:The Coal Age by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      I remember helping haul my grandma's long-unused boiler from her basement, est 500 lbs. We tied a rope and looped it around the fence outside to snug up to keep it from falling. The fence groaned quite a bit.

      Her coal chute had heh long hehe heheheh long since been bricked up ehehehehehe.

      --
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    5. Re:The Coal Age by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Diesel trains had already replaced coal fired steam engines.

      Coal fired steam engines were initially replaced with oil fired steam engines. Some were even converted.

  9. Cause of death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can one tell that a death is due to air pollution?

    1. Re: Cause of death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If it fits your political agenda and narrative, then the cause of death is 100% known to be caused by pollution.

    2. Re: Cause of death? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 3, Informative

      Statistics and data. For example, if you have elevated lung cancer rates in a conical plume downwind from a coal generating station, decreasing with distance and spread / concentration.

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    3. Re: Cause of death? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also animal models give risk factors at various pollution levels, and levels can be measured. This can then be checked against large cohort longitudinal studies.

  10. But the survivors donâ(TM)t know it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Surviving due to regulations is not likely to be noticed by the survivor. Like not dying due to a prevented accident thanks to technology. So, Americans can keep going blasting big government and regulations, their favorite pastime, and lament on the price of medical insurance while spending their money on churches that never cured anyone instead. Growing trend: ignore experts as your personal opinion trumps their expertise. ....

    1. Re: But the survivors donâ(TM)t know it by MachineShedFred · · Score: 0

      It's a sad day when this stereotype horseshit gets modded insightful.

      What, too busy to call all Americans fat too? Got somewhere important to be and can't lay yet another cowboy reference on us?

      --
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    2. Re:But the survivors donâ(TM)t know it by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Surviving due to regulations is not likely to be noticed by the survivor. Like not dying due to a prevented accident thanks to technology. So, Americans can keep going blasting big government and regulations, their favorite pastime, and lament on the price of medical insurance while spending their money on churches that never cured anyone instead. Growing trend: ignore experts as your personal opinion trumps their expertise. ....

      You know what also isn't noticed by the survivors? How many of their friends and family died because progress lagged behind where it otherwise would be.

      This accrues like compound interest over the decades. What it 5% behind where we otherwise would be, in terms of deaths?

      --
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  11. Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Required+Snark · · Score: 5, Informative
    That's why they want to roll back auto and industrial emission standards.

    Dead Americans are the only certain result.

    Republican Party Death Cult

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's time to take this literally and defend our future selves.

    2. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's OK. Fetuses that dies to pollution is an unavoidable accident and part of Gods plan.

    3. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh stop it. Yes regulation is important and helps direct but too much regulation kills advances in technology. What you have seen is a continuous improvement in automotive technology, more mileage and efficiency in vehicles. What's even better would be better to make all cars run in 91 plus octane which gets causes the ice to perform better and improve mileage. Electric cars are no where near ready for long distance travel and especially autonomous driving which most people wouldnt trust because who takes responsibility of the cars actions?? Power plants are running natural gas which is better. It has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans but society. With reasonable regulations, technology will fix most issues over time.

      Geekpoet

    4. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coal is not advancing anything. It isn't even a chemical feedstock anymore, oil has replaced it.

    5. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      That's why they want to roll back auto and industrial emission standards.

      Dead Americans are the only certain result.

      Republican Party Death Cult

      Good lord. Are you incapable of discussing politics in anything but such an infantile way?

    6. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Leave Trump out of this.

    7. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by drinkypoo · · Score: 3

      Oh stop it. Yes regulation is important and helps direct but too much regulation kills advances in technology.

      But that hasn't happened here. All automakers were on course to hit prior CAFE targets. In fact, all automakers were ahead of schedule and also capable of exceeding the standard.

      Electric cars are no where near ready for long distance travel

      They are 100% ready for long distance travel where there is a quick charging network available, and if our government were competent, it would have participated in building one by now.

      and especially autonomous driving which most people wouldnt trust because who takes responsibility of the cars actions

      Irrelevant red herring, since ICEs can be autonomous as well. FUD DETECTED.

      Power plants are running natural gas which is better. It has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans but society.

      Increased natural gas production depends on fracking, and fracking both increases seismic activity and contaminates aquifers with the refinery wastes they are euphemistically referring to as "fracking fluid". Fracking is a predominantly republican-supported activity. QED, you are full of shit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, right? Required Snark almost sounds like a Republican.

    9. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Democrats are pushing 700,000 abortions a year. I'd be careful where you're swinging that "death cult" moniker.

      --
      -Styopa
    10. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean 700,000 women choosing to end their pregnancies?

      At least they have that choice. That'll be going out under Republicans. Enjoy paying for all those unwanted babies too. Oh wait, Republicans don't care about them, or the mothers, once they are actually born.

    11. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      Pollution is bad for expectant mothers, the unborn, infants and children.

      Your argument is vile and immoral. It shows ignorance of fundamental principles of moral behavior: defending one side by claiming bad behavior on the other side is both illogical and morally bankrupt.

      What you should have learned from your parents is that two wrongs do not make a right. Even if your were correct, and you are not, you expressed an overtly un-Christian point of view. While you pretend to take the moral high ground you are in fact abandoning both reason and religion.

      --
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    12. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      fracking ... contaminates aquifers....

      Liar.

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    13. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      fracking ... contaminates aquifers....

      Liar.

      Stop me when I'm wrong, but be damned sure I'm wrong, first.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Trump and the Republican Party want you to die by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Who said that I exonerated anyone?
      OP claimed the GOP were a death cult, I pointed out that the Dems have their own windows.

      That doesn't excuse ANYONE.

      L2READ. Dipshit.

      --
      -Styopa
  12. Re:MURDER THIS LYING FAGGOT KEN DOLL by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Wow, that's a pretty bad NPC repeating dialog glitch there at the end. Can someone get a programmer in to fix entity 57515590?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  13. Why one or the other? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You talk as if CO2 reduction is antagonistic to airborne pollutant reduction. As if you can have one not both.

    But if you're lowering atmospheric mercury, for example, swapping coal for solar tackles BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

    And swapping gas for electric vehicles reduces both NOx and CO2 pollution at the same time, as long as the car is recharged with solar or renewables, and not a coal fired power station.

    I'm struggling to think of an instance where CO2 pollution isn't from the same source as the other airborne pollutants.... Asbestos maybe? That is an airborne pollutant not directly connected to CO2 that was eliminated.

    1. Re:Why one or the other? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 0

      But if you're lowering atmospheric mercury, for example, swapping coal for solar tackles BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

      Swapping coal for nuclear tackles BOTH AT THE SAME TIME and gives you baseload power to boot....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:Why one or the other? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm struggling to think of an instance where CO2 pollution isn't from the same source as the other airborne pollutants

      Tire and brake dust come to mind.
      Although it's stretching it, you might say the source is cars, which are also (often, indirectly) a CO2 source.

    3. Re:Why one or the other? by lazarus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And swapping gas for electric vehicles reduces both NOx and CO2 pollution at the same time, as long as the car is recharged with solar or renewables, and not a coal fired power station.

      I did the math on this some time ago and can't put my finger on the sources this instant, but it turns out that (because of the economies of scale) an electric car using electricity produced by a coal power generating station emits less CO2 than an equivalent-sized gasoline vehicle. Obviously, power generation with renewables is clearly better for the environment, but electric vehicles are better for the environment no matter what source the power generation comes from.

      --
      I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    4. Re: Why one or the other? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's a good chance that recharging an EV from coal-fired generation still emits less CO2 than an equivalent ICE per mile, because it will be burning at optimized levels to extract as much thermal energy as possible, which is easier than extracting mechanical energy.

    5. Re:Why one or the other? by PPH · · Score: 2

      I'm struggling to think of an instance where CO2 pollution isn't from the same source as the other airborne pollutants

      Not many. But sometimes they have a complex relationship. Want lower CO2,unburned HC and particulates? Increase combustion temperatures. But Whoops. NOx goes up. Volkswagen made the wrong decision and got their ass handed to them.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  14. Alternative explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People spend more time indoors than ever before.

  15. Wood smoke is increasing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The number of people heating homes by burning wood in cities is increasing rapidly. That is going to reverse the trend soon enough.

    1. Re: Wood smoke is increasing by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Trees take carbon from the air. Burning a tree puts it back, minus what stays in the ash. There isn't magic carbon coming from nowhere when you burn firewood.

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      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    2. Re: Wood smoke is increasing by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Although some places do require filters on fireplaces and wood-burning stoves, there's a lot of wood burning that goes on unfiltered. Wood smoke is NOT clean, although generally it's not as nasty as coal.

      Even if you burn only hard woods, lots of creosote builds up inside the chimney, and much more gunk gets into the air. I love a good wood fire, but I don't pretend it's clean.

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  16. You greatly underestimate ground pollution by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You talk as if CO2 reduction is antagonistic to airborne pollutant reduction. As if you can have one not both.

    Although theoretically you can do both, think of all of the money spent on warning about CO2 that could have been spent of pollution eradication measures and education.

    Just as a for-instance, you could take any anti-CO2 ad campaign and pay thousands of people to walk roadsides picking up long discarded trash, including a huge number of plastic bottles and bags. That would have a huge real impact on the environment, and possibly the ocean in the future as that stuff filters down the coast.

    But instead, some big NYC ad firms get fat and probably produce a metric ton of plastic waste from all the things they buy with "green (Ha, first typed as "greed")" ad dollars.

    But if you're lowering atmospheric mercury, for example, swapping coal for solar tackles BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

    Yes, that is true, and why I am a huge proponent of solar energy.

    I'm struggling to think of an instance where CO2 pollution isn't from the same source as the other airborne pollutants

    Again, it's more about where a huge amount of money is being diverted to try and convince people CO2 is a problem, while they ignore other real physical pollution which could be addressed to a greater degree.

    However, you are way too limited thinking of airborne pollutants when we have so many problems, yet another problematic vector of the CO2 hysteria. As we can see here airborne pollutants are actually getting better anyway so it would be way better to really focus on the other stuff which is maybe even worse than it used to be, even with plastic bag bans and a push away from bottled water.

    I clean up a lot of roadside and trail side trash throughout the year, and to me it seems like trash wandering around the environment is maybe worse than it ever has been in the past. That is not getting better on its own and we need to focus there much more than we are.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:You greatly underestimate ground pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I clean up a lot of roadside and trail side trash throughout the year, .

      Someone needs to stop tossing trash out the car windows, then.

      I suggest a two-pronged approach. First, have interesting punishments for such unnecessary littering. A month's pay is a fine one - because it'll hit the rich guys too. And of course, a couple of days of picking roadside litter. In the day of the dashcam, chances are some people will be caught by others not liking what they see. (Or simply not liking the other person in general - thus wanting to see them humiliated picking roadside litter).

      The other part is a move away from plastic, making the roadside litter biodegradable. Outlaw styrofoam/plastic wrapping for fast food, for example. Cardboard & wooden litter won't look nice either - but it will break down in a timely manner. Such litter is not pollution - merely ugly.

      We will never have 100% recycling. Some percentage of "products" & "wrapping" will be tossed in stupid places. Education & punishment may lower the percentage, but it won't be 0%. Which is why it is necessary to move away from non-degradable stuff in general. This is the reason you can't have mercury thermometers anymore - a few was always going to get broken outdoors and that was too much.

    2. Re:You greatly underestimate ground pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where CO2 pollution isn't from the same source

      pollution
      the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance or thing that has harmful or poisonous effects.

      CO2 is not pollution it is plant food. If you eliminated all CO2 you'd eliminate all life on this planet. And don't claim that CO2 causing temperatures to rise is a harmful effect. The only harm that anyone has pointed out is it might wash out some coast lines. Boo hoo. Our planet has been much hotter before than it is now and life thrived.

      And CO2 is only poisonous when concentrations get up to around 40,000 PPM, that is when there is a chance at oxygen deprivation. CO2 is sitting at 400 PPM (1 in every 2500 molecules) so it would have to rise by 100x to be a threat.

      Saying CO2 is pollution is like saying H2O is a pollution because it is harmful in smaller quantities than CO2.

    3. Re: You greatly underestimate ground pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CO2 is pollution because it is a greenhouse gas, dipshit, much like methane. Some level is expected, and more than that can become a huge problem, because physics is actually a thing.

    4. Re:You greatly underestimate ground pollution by nightfire-unique · · Score: 2

      yet another problematic vector of the CO2 hysteria

      .... how are you still not getting this?

      There is currently no greater threat to human civilization than atmospheric CO2 concentration.

      There is no excuse dude. This isn't new information.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    5. Re: You greatly underestimate ground pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we don't deal with NOx, etc now then some people will die now. If we don't deal with CO2 then people may die in the future, as well as loss of GDP. So it's about discounting rates. However, as noted, there are things that can be done that address both, and so no reason not to do this.

      As for plastic bags at the side of the road, maybe people should be a bit more responsible and not litter?

    6. Re: You greatly underestimate ground pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No moron it is not a pollutant and was never considered a pollutant until the AGW zealots started labeling it as such. Couldn't gin up all the ridiculous hyperbole by saying "plant food is dangerous", no had to relabel it as pollution. It isn't pollution because it is an absolute necessity for life on this planet and is physically pumped into green houses.

      You drink carbonated drinks don't you? Do you also eat coal tar? No, why? Because one is dangerous the other is not. Or should we go after the soda companies for filling our drinks with more pollution from CO2 along with the corn syrup?

      But according to you because it is a green house gas it is pollution. Well, genius, considering the fact the largest green house gas in the atmosphere is water vapor, I guess you consider that to be pollution too, right?

      And physics really is a thing, you know like claiming 1 molecule out of 2500, with a black body IR absorption rate of less than 11%, has the ability to alter the temperature of the other 2499 molecules that surround it. Laws of energy transfer and thermodynamics be damned, right?

    7. Re:You greatly underestimate ground pollution by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      How do you deal with the jerks who put their used cups in the back of their pickups, and find the cups magically gone when they get to their next destination?

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    8. Re:You greatly underestimate ground pollution by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      There is currently no greater threat to human civilization than atmospheric CO2 concentration.

      Oh jeez, another humorist.

      Islamism

      Progressivism or whatever is the best name for modern leftist beliefs generally.

      For historically verifiable events, an asteroid collision with Earth is something that's happened multiple times, and a bad one could wipe out humanity.

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    9. Re:You greatly underestimate ground pollution by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      What the honest fuck are you talking about? The fuck does any of this have to do with religion?

      Anyway, there's no significant threat to humanity from asteroids or comets at the moment. Runaway global warming due to atmospheric CO2 concentration, causing sealevel rise and food chain disruption is happening now, and getting worse. Again, this is not new information.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    10. Re: You greatly underestimate ground pollution by Obfiscator · · Score: 2

      The observational evidence we have collected shows the global temperature reached one degree Celsius above pre-industrial levels in 2017 (the difference between the global mean surface temperature from 1850-1900 and 1987-2017...Figure 1.2 from the recently released IPCC special report "Global Warming of 1.5 C"). Previous studies have found solar activity and volcanic eruptions to be of minimal impact, in particular over the past few decades.

      Atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations, on the other hand, have been increasingly steadily since pre-industrial times. Scientists, being sceptical by nature, are quick to point out to each other that correlation does not equal causation. Through the use of increasingly sophisticated methods and models, they are now reasonably sure that carbon dioxide is one of the primary drivers (though methane and nitrous oxide are not something to forget about). Incidently, these models include water vapor, but water vapor doesn't explain the temperature increase, so no, I would not consider that a pollutant.

      Carbon dioxide, at the concentrations we are currently seeing it, does seem to be negatively (for us) impacting the environment. So yes, despite that it is necessarily for life on this planet, I would start calling it a pollutant. "Good for you" and "bad for you" is often a matter of concentration.

      --
      "Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." -Indiana Jones
  17. Those numbers are pure speculation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many of those people would have fallen out of a window and broken their necks, or gotten run over by a bus if they didn't get sick from their bad diet and sedentary lifestyle?

    Next they'll tell us that 3000 people died from Hurricane Michael

  18. Too early to report Trump statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Under Trump, the death count is bound to go up, depending on how the Trump Administration counts cause of death.

    1. Re:Too early to report Trump statistics by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Poverty and war are very significant causes of death. As poverty goes down during Trump's administration, the resulting increased lifespan will outweigh any likely loss of life from increased air pollution.

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  19. Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Solar long surpassed coal for jobs. By 2017 its more than 3 times the number of jobs:
    http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/us-solar-jobs-2016/

    I wonder how much old man Murray made dollar for dollar for all the investment he made in getting Trump elected. He did a real dodgy deal, Trump announced a rescue plan for coal, on the back of it Murray swapped debts for equity. Then Trump's plan disappears with the equity holders screwed for the money:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-04/murray-energy-swaps-debt-on-heels-of-trump-plan-to-boost-coal

    "U.S. Energy Department makes plans to exercise emergency authority to force grid operators to buy electricity from struggling coal and nuclear power plants."

    Ha ha, as if you can force grid operators to subsidize coal. Of course it was fake, enough to let Murray cash out a little, but at 78 he doesn't have long to spend it.

    1. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      Solar long surpassed coal for jobs. By 2017 its more than 3 times the number of jobs: http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/...

      Coal generates ~30 times more power than solar, meaning it takes about 90 people in solar to produce the same unit of energy as in coal.

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    2. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Coal generates ~30 times more power than solar, meaning it takes about 90 people in solar to produce the same unit of energy as in coal.

      Coal plants require constant maintenance to function, but solar plants don't, at least not PV ones. They are set-and-forget except for a battery replacement every decade or so — and newer batteries are extending that lifespan. Those 90 people in solar can produce as much lasting solar capacity every year than those 30 people in coal can produce through ongoing labor. And while they do it again next year, the 90 people working in solar will be putting in new capacity.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And yet, it costs less per MWhr. Lower capital requirements, higher employment. Sorry, what was your argument?

    4. Re: Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But solar power causes communism and gay frogs!

    5. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      That's false, though. Solar does not have the capability for 100% availability without backup or massive storage - and those costs are never factored in to the "cost" analyses. In the US, that backup IS natural gas, coal, and nuclear - meaning solar is in addition to the base power generation we use.

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    6. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand the power grid, do you? Coal is a baseload resource, meaning it provides a constant source of power, not a backup. That spinning reserve is provided by fast response turbines, typically hydro or natural gas.

      Solar and wind are not 100% available, but neither is coal. All utility grade power sources are subject to downtime, whether that is scheduled maintenance, lack of resource or unscheduled breakdown. The down-time is covered by other resources on the grid, served by power trading in regions like CAISO. This results in spikes during peak consumption periods, and negative power pricing when there is a surplus of baseload (usually coal and nuclear).

    7. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong, base load is just the smallest amount demanded in a given service area. Typically for market reasons you use the cheapest generator to meet it and you keep in use as much as possible to reduce costs. That isn't coal by a long shot now, just look at some actual screen curves and you'll see that its the combined cycle gas turbines that fill that role now.

    8. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So, we can shut off coal (30% of our electric supply) and natural gas (32% of our electric supply) and have no issues? Solar is about 1% of the US electric supply - it simply cannot support the US without massive support from all the other supplies. It is simply not viable without 100% support from all the other sources, and thus the cost of those alternate supplies should be considered (and in the US, it would be at least 63% as fossil fuels).

      --
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    9. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Solar panels have to be kept clean to maintain top efficiency, and other maintenance is required. It's nowhere near the maintenance required for coal, but it's not zero.

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    10. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Solar is about 1% of the US electric supply - it simply cannot support the US without massive support from all the other supplies

      1% right now. At it's current growth rate, 10% in 5 years and 100% in 10 years. It can't scale to those volumes, but it does give an idea of how fast its currently growing.

    11. Re:Solar jobs 260k, coal 77k by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      And until it's well over 80% (assuming we keep that 20% in hydro), it will still need that nuclear, natgas, and coal backup to operate. Meaning you have to include the costs of nuclear/natgas/coal into the cost of solar right now, to be accurate in what it costs.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  20. MURDER THIS LYING FAGGOT KEN DOLL CAUGHT DAILY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SERIOUSLY, it is time to deal with these disinformation superfaggots in our midst. MURDER KEN DOLL.

  21. Thanks for the NPC dialogue patch by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thanks to the programmers for the quick fix for the NPC dialogue repetition bug I mentioned above, you can close that ticket now.

    I would like to see a little more variety in the dilig offered, but I guess there are only so many reaction trees you can program that get across the core Democratic Party values so clearly.

    Keep up the good work!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  22. So you're PRO CO2?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never met a person who is PRO a gas before. Usually they're just paid for mouthpieces trying to push coal or oil or whoever the sponsor is pushing.

    But you seem genuinely enthusiastic about CO2 as a gas.
    And you seem to have a hatred of people who don't like CO2 the gas.

    I've always been quite fond of Oxygen myself. All those advertising agencies pushing their "Anti-Oxidant" creams. Why can't we have good old American oxidants anymore!

    I too wander the streets digging in trash cans throughout the year. They should focus on keeping those trash cans topped up and not let Soros and his anti-oxidant agenda be on my TV all the time.

    1. Re: So you're PRO CO2?? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I'm pro-oxygen.

      Now you've met two pro-gas people!

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  23. No, itâ(TM)s just irrelevant by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    If we are lucky, the warming we see from CO2 would stave off the next ice age a while longer - but that does not mean Iâ(TM)m eager for greater CO2 emissions, I just find it itrelevant and like I said, a huge waste of resources that could be used to fight real pollution like ocean plastics and lots of bad land based pollution.

    The money going to fight CO2 today is having virtually no impact - countries are doing what they would be doing anyway in general. Letâ(TM)s fight a battle against pollution where we can make a real impact in making the Earth a cleaner place.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:No, itâ(TM)s just irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, if we don't fix the CO2 problem very, very soon then we definitely won't be worrying about another ice age.

      We're nearly at the point where it becomes irreversible and goes runaway. Once that happens, there will never be another ice age.

      The only real question at this point is exactly how uninhabitable the earth becomes. Do we just end up with a 20 degree rise, which leaves the vast majority of the planet uninhabitable for humans, or do we go on ahead to full Venus, with virtually all life impossible?

      No, CO2 IS the real pollution. If we don't fix it, every other kind of pollution will become irrelevant. Fortunately, fixing CO2 will reduce other airborne pollutants at the same time.

    2. Re:No, itâ(TM)s just irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      , or do we go on ahead to full Venus, with virtually all life impossible?

      Well for that to happen either the Earth has to move about a billion kilometers closer to the Sun or wait a billion years for the Sun to start shifting into it's red giant phase.

    3. Re:No, itâ(TM)s just irrelevant by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      Well for that to happen either the Earth has to move about a billion kilometers closer to the Sun or wait a billion years for the Sun to start shifting into it's red giant phase.

      Yikes.

      Please, .. please stop talking. :(

      If you're interested in planetary or environmental science, there are online courses you can take. You can often audit lectures at a nearby college/university.

      Please don't say things like the above in public. It is factually incorrect, and completely irresponsible given the tipping point we humans presently find ourselves at.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  24. Got a bad case of gas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so you telling me this won't matter? Some one or thing slipped me soy. This is not good and I don't care what some study says. I'm dying here.

  25. It wasn't air pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Air pollution deaths have declined massively. Hooray.

    These are in no way related to the marked increase in deaths from asthma, black lung, TB and other respiratory related diseases.
    Fortunately, those mostly impacted are the poor and they aren't considered people for governmental census purposes.

    1. Re:It wasn't air pollution by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Tuberculosis in the United States is largely due to illegal immigration.

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  26. What kind of deaths are these? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

    We recently had a similar study conducted in my country as well, with (of course) a much more alarmist summary: we must reduce pollution NOW or else... And while a further reduction of pollution is good, the urgency with which we do so and the expense and disruption incurred by that urgency must be weighed against the benefits. So... what kind of deaths are these? Normal people with healthy lives tragically cut short, as is the case in traffic accidents and shootings? Or people with respiratory ailments that are exacerbated rather than caused by pollution ? Not that we shouldn't care about the latter, but in terms of public health these are not comparable.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    1. Re: What kind of deaths are these? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if you have inherited asthma your life is worth less? Is that what you are saying?

  27. Re:MURDER THIS LYING FAGGOT KEN DOLL by dcw3 · · Score: 0

    Can we start with the Antivaxers, Gluten-Free, and anti-GMO crowd.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  28. Curious by dcw3 · · Score: 2

    I was curious how they determined the number of pollution related deaths...

    Zhang, West and colleagues analyzed concentrations of two pollutants, known as PM2.5 and ozone, from a 21-year computer simulation of air pollution across the U.S. PM2.5 are very small particles suspended in the air that come from power plants, motor vehicles, industries, and some commercial and residential sources

    They then related the declining concentrations of PM2.5 and ozone to the geographical areas in which people live and the causes of death in those areas, using data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, to estimate deaths from air pollution during the period. They estimated deaths from ischemic heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, lung cancer and stroke related to PM2.5, and from respiratory disease for ozone. .

    Interesting, but I'd be looking for some validation of this before pointing to it a fact. I've seen too many simulations, and estimations (both used above) that ended up being garbage in, garbage out.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  29. The end of polluting automobiles? by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

    Why did it fall so rapidly? Reason: the phase-out of leaded gasoline and the disappearance of automobiles that don't meet today's emission standards (EPA Tier 2 Bin5/CARB ULEV-II). Indeed, Los Angeles has experienced a lot less serious "smog days" since the late 1990's.

    1. Re:The end of polluting automobiles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I heard that regulation is bad and kills industry!

  30. Clearly...this is due to Global Warming by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    I mean....global warming, the planet is getting hotter, less deaths from air pollution. ;-P

  31. Thanks Nuclear Power!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just think how much dirtier the air would have been if we didn't have nuclear power. Just think how much more coal we'd have burned then and how much we will have to burn in the future if we abandon nuclear power.

    Here's a question, why is it always solar will save us and nuclear was something. What evidence do we have that solar will do anything than continue to be a money pit? Nuclear power has done very well, why not assume it will continue to do so? People bring up the tiny fraction of nuclear power plants having accidents as evidence against nuclear power, but ignore that solar power has killed far more people per energy produced. These global warming alarmists keep screaming "SCIENCE!!" and can't be bothered to do the simple science of comparing deaths from solar power to that of nuclear power and realizing that nuclear provides far more energy per the number of people killed.

    These solar power advocates will compare future technology that is not yet on the market to busted down and known flawed Chernobyl and Fukushima. Well, if you compare the ideal imagine of what solar will be to the worst of nuclear power then of course solar looks good. How about we compare apples to apples? Compare the future of solar to the future of nuclear? Or the past of nuclear to the past of solar? Or, most of all, the present of solar to the present of nuclear? We live in the present after all.

    Right now nuclear provide 20% of our electricity with as little pollution and CO2 as solar wishes it could. You want clean air RIGHT NOW? Then get some nuclear power. You want clean air in the future? Then build more nuclear power today for clean air tomorrow. Do your solar power research in the mean time, that's fine, just don't abandon all the progress we made in keeping the air clean from nuclear power. We can do two things at once, we can build nuclear power plants while we build solar collectors. Building both will clean the air far faster than abandoning one or the other.

  32. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to di by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Octane does nothing for fuel efficiency by itself. It is merely a rating of resistance to pre-detonation under compression, e.g. "pinging"

    What gets you the better MPG with cars that require octane 91 is the turbocharger that creates the higher cylinder pressure.

    Also my Model 3 disagrees that it's not ready for a road trip. Seems that the supercharger network has me covered, for cheaper than filling my BMW.

  33. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to di by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    That technology came along because of regulation. When California says "raise your mpg or don't sell cars here" the mpg magically goes up, and smog goes down.

    Funny, that.

    --
    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  34. I remember the haze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    at the horizon in the 70s and 80s. I also remember coming home from Manhattan I had to clean my nostrils. The air is now cleaner but can still be a lot cleaner. On occasions I take the IRT subway and I can still see soot coming out from some of the apartment buildings. It looks like some of them are still burning oil especially #6 oil. NYC has a plentiful supply of natural gas which is also cheaper. The landlords won't change out the furnaces because of the one time cost. The government needs to provide them with financial help.

  35. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to di by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    What gets you the better MPG with cars that require octane 91 is the turbocharger that creates the higher cylinder pressure.

    It's not just turbocharging, though. Higher-compression engines have higher output, too. I drove a 1.6 liter Nissan Almera with a slush box in Panama and it was an absolute knockout, but it did take high-octane. I was stunned at just how good it was. Later in the same trip we had to rent a Toyota Echo, and I was equally stunned... but in a different way :)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  36. Anyone questioning the stats themselves here? by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I'm just wondering how they come to these conclusions that "1 out of 35 deaths" has a cause of air pollution?

    Seems pretty suspect to me, since it's not extremely common you hear of a coroner's report stating "air pollution" as the cause of death.

    I mean, is this total counting every single time somebody stupidly runs a fossil fuel burning space heater indoors with no ventilation? Is this making an assumption that COPD sufferers who damaged their lungs by decades of cigarette smoking and now require oxygen are dying from air pollution? What determines these stats? I have a feeling the totals aren't really showing a reality where otherwise healthy individuals die prematurely because of the pollution in the air they're breathing in the city they live in ....

  37. Donald Trump and The Republicans: HOLD MY BEER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, you had a good run America.

  38. ? - ? === success by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 1

    I will claim ignorance here, but could someone explain to me how you KNOW a single death, little lone a concrete number of them was caused by air pollution?
    Contributed too? maybe. Even then , seem REALLY hard to prove unless you are using blatant coloration = cause type thinking.

    so how do a say a number, that can't be reliably estimated went down? I read the abstracts and whatnot, but don't see anything publicly available that describes how they measured this. Did I miss it?

    --
    âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
  39. Re: Trump and the Republican Party want you to di by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Some cars have had knock detectors for at least 30 years now. Use low-octane gasoline, the detector senses pre-ignition, and the timing is retarded to stop the pre-ignition. Both power and efficiency suffer when timing is retarded.

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  40. No U! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where does the fracking fluid go then, Einstein? Does the fracking process cause the formation of hermetically sealed storage tanks underground while it does its drilling magic? The drillers certainly don't recover and recycle it. A driller couldn't recycle it if they wanted to because it's leaking all over the goddamned place. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Not even enough to properly lie about it.

  41. Lies, damn lies and statistics by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Except that manufacturing jobs in the US have been on the rise since 2010...

    Except that's ignoring the economic crash that started in 2008 and got worse in 2009. Your own link shows that manufacturing jobs are down in 2018 by over a million from where they were ten years ago. And when you take population increases into account, manufacturing jobs have kept shrinking as a sector of the economy, even as new jobs are "added".

    1. Re:Lies, damn lies and statistics by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Except that the economy of pre-2007 was a well known bubble, and beside the point that I was refuting with the GP. An 8+ year increase in manufacturing flat out refutes his statement. The reason that it's a smaller sector is simply because of other sectors growing faster...back at your Lies.

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      Just another day in Paradise
    2. Re: Lies, damn lies and statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest you go to Detroit or Cleveland and tell everyone how great the manufacturing sector is doing. When they disagree, call them liars.

      Before attempting this, please make sure your Obamacare plan actually covers access to a doctor. You'll need it.

    3. Re:Lies, damn lies and statistics by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Except that the economy of pre-2007 was a well known bubble

      A well known financial bubble. Not one for manufacturing, which has been in steady decline since NAFTA.

      An 8+ year increase in manufacturing flat out refutes his statement. The reason that it's a smaller sector is simply because of other sectors growing faster...back at your Lies.

      Back at your lies, damned lies and statistics. Picking a Great Recession as your starting point for looking a job numbers in just about any sector of the economy is as dishonest as picking 1998 (a record hot year for record hot years) as a baseline to argue the climate has actually cooled.

    4. Re:Lies, damn lies and statistics by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      The starting point isn't the point, or don't you get the fucking point?

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