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Intel Mum On When Entry-Level CPU, IoT Supply Will Improve (crn.com)

Posted by msmash on from the where-things-are dept.

Intel is staying quiet on when the company expects its shortage of entry-level CPUs to end as it prioritizes production of Core and Xeon processors to meet growing demand in the PC and server markets. From a report: The Santa Clara, Calif.-based company provided more details on its plan to improve processor supply in its third-quarter earnings call on Thursday, when the company reported a continuing resurgence in its PC business and strong continued growth in its data-centric businesses. When an analyst asked Intel interim CEO Bob Swan when he expected the supply constraints to be over, Swan did not provide a timeline in his response. But he answered other parts of the analyst's questions about the company's efforts to improve supply. "We were caught off guard a little bit this year by the explosive growth well ahead of what our expectations were back at the beginning of the year, and that growth came from all different segments of the business," he said. "It put us in the unfortunate situation of constraining some of the demand signals that we were seeing from the market and our customer base."

52 comments

  1. Demand exceeds supply? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Raise prices. Econ 101 here.

    1. Re: Demand exceeds supply? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel has a yield of less than 10% on their latest process. They are scrambling to find a commonality in the doping flaws that will let them find a binning that would be useful for the rest.
      Ryzen has them panicked.

    2. Re: Demand exceeds supply? by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not a particularly huge issue for them as their 14 nm process is very mature and highly performant. Even on Intel's own marketing slides, they indicated that their 10 nm would not initially have as good of performance characteristics as their 14 nm process.

      The real problem for Intel is that they anticipated moving several product lines off of 14 nm by this point, but since that hasn't happened they're unable to supply all markets adequately. AMD can't take all that much advantage of the situation as they're selling Ryzen products about as quickly as they can make them as well. The biggest issue for Intel will probably be in the server market as that's where AMD's 7 nm products will launch first and likely have a massive core advantage over Intel parts given AMD's multi-chip module approach when compared to Intel's monolithic die.

    3. Re:Demand exceeds supply? by barc0001 · · Score: 2

      Maybe for a monopoly, but AMD can already service that market and if Intel raises prices more because their pricing guy only took econ 101, they'll see AMD snap up that market share for a lot longer than the shortage persists. That's econ 202, don't go for a short term gain that will cause you long term pain.

    4. Re:Demand exceeds supply? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      intel can just bully dell / hp / apple to not use AMD.

    5. Re: Demand exceeds supply? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, I'll take "made up shit" for $200 Alex".

    6. Re:Demand exceeds supply? by barc0001 · · Score: 2

      They used to do that, but years ago Dell called their bluff and Intel didn't do squat, then HP joined them in building systems with AMD chips. Go look at Dell and HP's product pages today and you'll see a large number of AMD based offerings.

      And besides, nowadays Intel needs to keep those two vendors - who together represent 45% of all shipped PCs - happy with Intel or that's a major gift to AMD right when Intel is having yield problems. Grandma buys a laptop for home use, John buys a laptop for college, Steve buys a PC for work. None of them really give a crap if its an i3/i5/i7 or a Ryzen on the motherboard, as long as the price is right and the machine works as fast as they expect it to. And a significant segment of the "enthusiast" market is getting positively giddy with the price/performance of the AMD parts over Intel. Ryzen and Threadripper were great surprises when the real world numbers and prices were seen, Ryzen 2 is looking even better. Now is not the time for Intel to badly play poker with its customers.

  2. did anyone actually ask? by nimbius · · Score: 1

    i mean is one vendors supply chain shortage a real issue for the tech industry or is this just a cheap attempt from intel to remain relevant in the face of AMD by implying their chips are in high enough demand to cause a lack of availability in the market?

    and for that matter who seriously cares? when my favourite brand of potato chip is gone i just reach for some other brand. Its just a chip. cant tech companies just switch to ARM or AMD for CPU's? wouldnt they at least consider diversifying away from Intel in light of the meltdown vulnerability? or is intel trying to convince customers that not only has meltdown not been an issue, but they are so unaffected that customers are buying up all their chips?

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:did anyone actually ask? by The+Original+CDR · · Score: 1

      when my favourite brand of potato chip is gone i just reach for some other brand.

      What if switching to a different brand of potato chips required switching out your living room chair and TV? The last motherboard I had that could take processors from different manufactuers was a Socket 7 from the 1990's.

    2. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, what Intel is doing is working. Look at Intel's stock performance versus AMD's this week.

    3. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at Intels price per instruction vs AMD's Intel is still nowhere close to being cost competitive especially on multi-threaded workloads.

    4. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I know it. I'm on the fence about whether my next machine will be Ryzen 2 or Threadripper, but it will definitely be AMD. I'm trying to hold out until Black Friday to see if there are any crazy deals, but I'm not sure I can make it that long.

    5. Re:did anyone actually ask? by kiviQr · · Score: 1

      When was the last time you upgraded CPU without motherboard? It does not make sense, you get way more benefits from new features form MB thank from CPU.

    6. Re:did anyone actually ask? by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. If you don't swap CPU's within a couple of years there's not much point keeping the mobo. Given how overpowered most CPU's are for typical game and productivity, I struggle to figure out why someone would do that. By the time most people start wanting a new computer these days the CPU/mobo are very long in the tooth.

    7. Re:did anyone actually ask? by The+Original+CDR · · Score: 1

      On most of my motherboards, I've done multiple CPU upgrades. Either for speed (Socket 7/A/940) or core counts (AM2/3). The one exception was the Pentium 2 with the Slot 1 connector, which had a dead end upgrade path and I later sold to a friend to fund my next upgrade.

    8. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, why don't you look?

      If you actually looked, you'd see that Ryzen is quite competitive with Intel clock for clock. Intel still wins a lot of benchmarks (but not all by far) partly because they are higher clocked, and partly because many benchmarks are a scam, where, e.g BAPCo is a front for Intel. These test are written and tuned specifically for Intel cpus (and to cripple AMD). Good example: The Photoshop component of Sysmark 2001 used 13 different filters. The Athlon XP beat the competing P4 in eight of them. In Sysmark 2002, all of the eight were removed, being replaced by repeated filters where the P4 did better than the Athlon.

      Actually the fact that Intel doesn't "win" more benchmarks than they do all things considered is kind of an embarrassment, stacking the deck so heavily and not getting more results out of it is pathetic.

    9. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahaha! Ouch! Epic reply.

      Brazilian Fart Porn on monitor 16 please (with audio turned up).

    10. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glorious comment

    11. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There hasn't been an appreciable change for the mainstream platform from Intel between the four 6th generation processors that all came with new motherboard releases. Intel could have saved customers a lot of money had they published more expanded requirements when they first released skylake such that the newer iterations of the same basic architecture could work.

      Of course, in this current situation Intel can't meet demand. If they we're forcing motherboard upgrades with each iteration they would be even further behind in terms of matching it.

    12. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      They already switch to ARM for IoT, Intel is really a tiny player in that market.

    13. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Targon · · Score: 1

      Intel generally tries to force people to buy a new motherboard for every CPU upgrade, but AMD goes with sockets, and tends to allow people to upgrade the CPU on the same motherboard. Since Socket AM2, AMD has made it easy to use the same motherboard when possible. Yes, they do release a + version, generally for additional power delivery for newer chips(so AM2 to AM2+). If the type of memory changes, such as the shift from DDR2 to DDR3 memory, then a new socket was needed as well(though the Phenom 945 and 955 would work in both socket AM2+ as well as socket AM3 boards since those chips supported both DDR2 and DDR3 memory).

      For Intel, new generation has almost always required a new chipset, even if the socket was the same.

    14. Re:did anyone actually ask? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The last motherboard I had that could take processors from different manufactuers was a Socket 7 from the 1990's.

      Anyone likely to upgrade their CPU probably has quite an old one. In which case they are also likely to want to upgrade RAM, better chipset, and other accessories (USB-C?), NVMe, etc.

      Seriously I upgraded my CPU once without a motherboard change and considered it an incredible oddity and only did it because a friend was selling a quad core chip of the same generation as my dual core for cheap. I don't know anyone whose changed CPUs without changing motherboard other than a friend who was reviewing hardware and tried to keep a somewhat consistent testbench.

    15. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you make a video about that? You'll get more than four views in two days, Chris.

    16. Re:did anyone actually ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You never switched to another brand of potato chips, Chris, you eat them ALL!

  3. Who's Intel's Mum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it has no women at all. Intel is manly.

    1. Re:Who's Intel's Mum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mum. Adjective.

      Definition: Silent, and I would also like to inform you that I own a thesaurus.

    2. Re:Who's Intel's Mum? by mrbester · · Score: 1

      "Intel Keeping Mum On..." would have least been the correct use of that colloquialism. The single word usage fell out of favour centuries ago.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    3. Re:Who's Intel's Mum? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You know, I had just finished my BBC news reading when I popped over here to Slashdot, and indeed my first thought was why do we care what Intel's mother thinks about IoT.

    4. Re:Who's Intel's Mum? by Memnos · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that's not a widely known fact because, well, mum's the word on that.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
  4. Precious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "constraining some of the demand signals that we were seeing from the market"

    God, I'll have to remember that when I have to backorder something! Those are the people earning the big bucks :O

  5. There is always AMD to pick up the slack by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

    Calling AMD CPUs Entry-Level in general would be insulting, but they certainly have some decent offerings at low price points. Especially the APUs.
    The AMD Ryzen 3 2200G can compete on CPU performance with the Pentium Gold and offers better graphics performance, replacing a low end graphics card.
    Adding up all components for similarly capable systems, the AMD wins in price, even if it is a little more expensive by itself.

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
    1. Re: There is always AMD to pick up the slack by jd · · Score: 1

      Can't put an AMD into an Intel-designed motherboard, and vice versa. Pins are different.

      AMD also tends to want HT, as well.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re: There is always AMD to pick up the slack by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Especially in the low end market, most people buy CPU and board together and keep the combination for quite a while.
      By the time thy want a new system, the whole platform tends to be obsolete and it makes more sense to replace CPU, board and perhaps the RAM together.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    3. Re:There is always AMD to pick up the slack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AMD is teh ghey, no one wants that

  6. The G5400 seems pretty solid to me by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    the AMD does a lot better in terms of video with the usual caveats that Intel is good enough for 2D nowadays (assuming you're only driving 1 4k display or 2 1080p ones) and AMD is nice and all but their drivers kinda stink if you're playing old games (which, lets face it, you probably are if you're using integrated graphics).

    If they're "mum" on the entry level it's because they've got that base covered. The only thing they could do there is screw up and have their entry level start competing with their mid-range.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:The G5400 seems pretty solid to me by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      I'm playing older games on an older AMD system. Can't complain.
      BTW, the percentage of new games that actually work well with weak graphics is not so bad anymore. There is the whole e-sports genre and some MMOs. Personally, I have discovered Crossout a while ago. Works well even on an old Radeon HD 6670 with 1GB VRAM.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    2. Re:The G5400 seems pretty solid to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The G5400 was a questionable value at release. It's currently "on sale" for nearly double it's msrp.

      https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX78J3823&cm_re=intel_pentium_gold_g5400-_-19-117-875-_-Product $110

      https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-pentium-gold-g5600-g5400-cpu,5679.html MSRP $64

  7. Amd to Intel by voss · · Score: 1

    AMD: Don't worry we can supply all the entry level CPUs the market can buy...take your time.
    Intel: Uh....thanks.

  8. TSMC Ahead by MrL0G1C · · Score: 2

    It sounds like TSMC is leaving everyone else in their dust which is great for AMD. Downside is that these factories cost so much that the barrier to entry to new players is extremely high to the point even intel are scared of building new fabs by the sounds of it. AFAIK / not an expert.

    --
    Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  9. What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intel MOM?

    1. Re:What by dohzer · · Score: 1

      Yup, why is it 'Mom' in some cases and 'Mum' in this one? #alwaysMum

    2. Re:What by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Mom means mother. Mum means silence. Do you English?

  10. Intel Mum wants daycare for Entry Level CPUs by PerlPunk · · Score: 1

    I sure hope things improve.

  11. 10Nm not relavant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally for most devices depending on Intel CPU's the switch to 10Nm is not really important. I haven't bought much hardware in 4 plus years. Seriously reducing size hasn't really done much. Even the latest stuff is just adding more cores and not much else, lot of users never stress their device to the point of any of this even making a dent in their experience. This is why PC sales are flat, unless your a geek running the top end models for gaming or serious high CPU data crunching you really do not care.

  12. Laptops and Allin1 - Not so easy to switch to AMD by williamyf · · Score: 1

    Laptops and all All in Ones are the best selling computers nowadays. They are also the fastest growing (or the slowest shrinking) segments of end user iX86-AMD64 computing. For a Tower, Desktop or NUC, things are so standard, that just geting a premade mobo from the ussual suspects and slapping in in a case is enough. Even the OEMs that design their own computers, like HP or lenovo, are known to use mobos from third parties, like MSI in a pinch, if needed be. So, for Towers/Desktops/NUCs, a switch to AMD is quite easy. And it seems that most of the slashdot audience is stuck in that mindset, and on top of that, in a Build-your-own-computer type of mentality, which is still more uncommon nowadays.

    For the bulk of the market, moving to AMD is not so easy:

    For laptops and all in ones, things are not so easy, there are no standard parts. The motherboards need to be designed from scratch, for every device family (that is to say, a set of models that have the same shell mobo and cooling, and only differ in certain features like clock speed and fetures).

    Being that AMD laptop type APUs (the most ussual type of processor used in Laptops and All in Ones) were anounced just in May this year, is logical that there has not been enough time to design a plethora of models that can be comparable to the plethora of intel based alternatives available in every niche of those markets. Until that is the case, companies will need intel parts, and will pay a premium for the priviledge. Not huge premiums, mind you, but a premium nonetheless...

    So, the intel shortages in the entry level of the market will be in the "Hurt Me Plenty" mode for a long while (the Big OEMs are calculating 6 months at least)

    As for servers, those are also slow to transition from intel to AMD, but that is a very different affaire...

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  13. Re:Laptops and Allin1 - Not so easy to switch to A by Targon · · Score: 1

    Actually, it was October of 2017 when the 2200U, 2500U, and 2700U were released. The Pro versions are the ones that came out in May.

  14. Re:Laptops and Allin1 - Not so easy to switch to A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As for servers, those are also slow to transition from intel to AMD, but that is a very different affaire...

    Opteron sold pretty well for a long time, friendo.

  15. Re:Laptops and Allin1 - Not so easy to switch to A by williamyf · · Score: 2

    As for servers, those are also slow to transition from intel to AMD, but that is a very different affaire...

    Opteron sold pretty well for a long time, friendo.

    Yes, Opteron sold pretty well for a long time. It was in the early 00's. I was there.

    It took AMD from the release of the K8 with AMD64 in April 2003 until april 2006 to achieve a quite high market share in servers (22%). So, a full 3 years from introduction to peak.

    Yes, intel did some less-than-legal moves to prevent AMD from prospering that they (hopefully) can not do now due to higher scrutiny... But at that time, replacement cycles were faster both on user computers and servers, and in servers, consolidation of the high end market (PA-RISC, Alpha, MIPS, Power and Sparc were still relevant then) was at play, allowing the oportunities to forklift upgrades to AMD, and the P4 was CRAP.

    But this is 2018...

    Epyc debuted in May 2017. If the past predicts the future, we still need to wait a while before AMD becomes important in servers...

    Nowadays, replacement cycles are longer, hypervisors do not support their full features on AMD processors (yet), and the high end market is pretty much X86 now, except for some holdouts like Power and Sparec which are much smaller than what they were in the 00's (i.e., no forklift upgrades).

    So, some goods for AMD (EPYC being an EXCELENT product, intel not being able to play nasty tricks, intel security woes, and intel production problems), and some bads for AMD (longer replacement cycles, no rip and replace upgrades, Intel product is not crap, ecosystem not yet fully ready for AMD, server people a very conservative bunch).

    And do not get me wrong, I want AMD and VIA (nowadays Zhaoxin) to grow, and move the X86/AMD64 market from a near-monopoly to a 3-way oligopoly, but this will take time and effort. It will not happen overnight.

    And extrapolating what hapens in the DIY-desktop market to the whole market, or living of past glories, will only set people up for disapointment....

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  16. Re:Laptops and Allin1 - Not so easy to switch to A by williamyf · · Score: 1

    Actually, it was October of 2017 when the 2200U, 2500U, and 2700U were released. The Pro versions are the ones that came out in May.

    Correct! Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of APUs with Vega parts for laptops, and got all confused with old APUs for laptops, and new APUs for low end desktops. That's what happens when one quotes from memory. Your dates are the correct ones.

    But the rationale still stands. It takes 18 months to design a cellphone. Suposing that a laptop or all-in-one is easier because there is more space, and no RF cell modem, it would take something like a year to desing, produce and put in the stores a laptop or all-in-one (if you reused screen, shell and keyboard from an already existing model).

    So, it will take a while before there are computers with AMD inside competing with intel in most niches of the market...

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  17. So where are the good AMD machines vendors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Customers want to buy Ryzen, but vendors are still cowtowing to Intel but cramming Ryzen chips into crap boxes and configurations. Lenovo laptops even have soldered in memory to prevent users from upgrading to a decent configuration.

    Hopefully some vendor will get out from under Intel's thumb soon, and reap a pile of market share.