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Tech Groups Step Away From Gab Network After Shooting (ft.com)
Tech companies including PayPal and Stripe have suspended their services from Gab, a social network catering primarily to US conservatives that had been used by the man accused of killing 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue. From a report: The moves are likely to reopen the debate about the limits of free speech online and the potential for social networks to radicalise users. Gab was launched two years ago by tech entrepreneur Andrew Torba, who became frustrated with what he perceived as a bias against conservative views on California-based social networks such as Facebook and Twitter. His site soon attracted controversial rightwing figures, including Richard Spencer and Alex Jones, who had been suspended or banned from other social networks. Robert Bowers, who has been charged over the shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday, was among Gab's hundreds of thousands of users, the company confirmed on Saturday. Mr Bowers, whose profile on Gab featured images of guns and white supremacist iconography, made anti-Semitic posts and threats on the site just hours before the shooting. Since Saturday's shooting, Gab has been accused of not doing enough to prevent free expression from tipping over into hate speech on its site.
Online payments companies PayPal and Stripe, as well as hosting provider Joyent, all said they would stop Gab from using their services, [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled, alternative source] citing violations of their terms of services, which do not allow hate speech. Gab slammed the moves as "direct collusion between big tech giants" against it. This weekend is not the first time that Gab has been sharply criticised for the content it hosts.Last year, after a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Google removed Gab from Google Play, its mobile app store, claiming it violated its policy on hate speech.
Online payments companies PayPal and Stripe, as well as hosting provider Joyent, all said they would stop Gab from using their services, [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled, alternative source] citing violations of their terms of services, which do not allow hate speech. Gab slammed the moves as "direct collusion between big tech giants" against it. This weekend is not the first time that Gab has been sharply criticised for the content it hosts.Last year, after a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Google removed Gab from Google Play, its mobile app store, claiming it violated its policy on hate speech.
On the other hand, banning such networks only drives them underground where no one can monitor them, creating an even bigger louder more resonant echo chamber.
If it is possible for such people to openly express their views, however disturbing they might be, while at the same time remove the perverse incentives for others who make money or leverage political power off them it would be better than banning them outright.
But it is very difficult to come up with such a solution where there are so many different players and enforcement is very difficult.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Funny, because I was going to chime in to comment about the whole Visa/Amazon/etc dropping the ability to support Wikileaks which definitely came from a push from government legislators. I was against it then, and I am against it now with this. This also extends to the treatment of sex workers and swingers through websites on the claims of traffic. "Self-policing" of others is mostly something I don't want to see with business. The sort of crap I want to see is companies self-policing their own behavior and being punished when they choose to harm people, often illegal, for their own benefit--and I don't mean fines amounting to less the actual damages.
Agreed. I had noticed people feeling censored on Twitter and considering the move to Gab. This is an excuse to demonetize Gab. I don't know Gab (not a social media user) but it's likely that it's not just far right wing people who move there.
I think there's a major censorship operation going on but this is not simple to prove because one person's false positives are another person't real targets. There is so much crap on the web that anyone targeting 'serious' dissident content only has to bundle sufficient crap into each censoring operation to stay under the radar.
Real freedom of speech protects against this so you don't even have to know which of the two scenarios apply.
This. Where I come from, what people call "the left" in the United States would be considered center-right, at the very least. The liberals there are our right-wing conservatives here trying to privatize everything, austerity measures incessantly diminishing our social services, health care and education, zero environmental vision. That's left-wing in America. The right-wing takes the same starting position and launches forward at lightspeed. It's a fascinating yet profoundly depressing shit show.
This.
The reason things are so fucked up is because we, the consumers, are served content that we ask for.
We hate one news outlet and love the other. The providers don't give a flying rat's ass as to how we got there, they just want more of us.
There is a middle ground of sorts with PBS and NPR, but notice that we are not rushing to those sites.
America has two races: Republicans and Democrats.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
The right wing own all 3 branches of government
Republicans do. Conservatives don't. It's still mostly the Establishment Uniparty in charge, which is why so little changes.
and nearly all of the media (they dominate talk radio, Fox News' ratings are much higher than MSNBC and, well, as a lefty I can safely say that MSNBC is right wing on economics
You're very high right now.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Meanwhile the GOP invites Gavin McInnes, founder of the Proud Boys, to speak at their events.
In his own words:
“I think there’s not enough violence in today’s day and age. I want violence. I want punching in the face. I’m disappointed in Trump supporters for not punching enough.” - Gavin McInnes
"We do it cause it’s fun. It’s fun beating you up, because you suck s--t." - Gavin McInnes
https://www.salon.com/2018/10/...
The problem is that any genuine "conservatives" are so bloody bad at drawing the line between themselves and the racist, hate spewing, violent Nazis out there.
They are so similar in many cases that the temptation for "conservatives" is to think that they are the same, only that the nazi scum is a bit more "dedicated", and in any case "better dead than red". Which becomes a particularly thorny problem when you define anything to the left of hard core reactionarism as "socialism" or "communism".
And you're right it's not good for a society. It's what happened in Germany in the past, Nazis to the right, Communists to the left. There are reasons why the people who ultimately bore the responsibility for put old Adolf into power, Alfred Hugenberg and von Hindenburg were very conservative politicians. And there were reasons why the Nazis let Hugenberg retain his place in the Reichstag until 1945, despite all other parties than the NSDAP being banned. These are also the reasons why Europe haven't had the kind of crazy "conservatives" the US has had for a long time; they all convinced themselves that the Nazis weren't so bad, and either joined the "winning" team directly, or allied themselves to them to the extent that they discredited themselves for decades. Only now, when the people who were actually around back in the day are starting to die out, are we beginning to see their ugly faces again - again accompanied by the hate-filled breed of losers they in vain hope they will be able to exploit.
of being Conservative? If change isn't happening then they're winning.
I think you're mixing up the radical right (alt-right?) with actual Conservatives. But even then the radical right wing is doing pretty well for themselves. There's been a massive and successful attack on gov't regulation. Much of Dodd Frank has been repealed. Most of the Obama era EPA guidelines have been eliminated or toned back. Net Neutrality is dead putting control of the internet in the hands of private industry. Mitch McConnell is even able to talk openly about ending Social Security and Medicare. These are policies the far right has wanted for decades and had to back down on.
Meanwhile the left can't get any tracking on Medicare for All, even though a majority of Republicans support it (let alone Democrats). The left are completely on the defensive in all respects. The right is winning on all fronts.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
This is also why corporatists hate the idea of cryptocurrencies. The elitists can't believe that an algorithm-based payment system might be more credible than their own. But then they pull this garbage and try to ban anyone that they don't like for the flimsiest of reasons.
and you shouldn't be using that word. You're misusing it. Perhaps intentionally in order to get real conservatives on your side. I've said this before, but Hilary Clinton was and is the best true conservative in America. She'd have kept everything the same, only making a few minor changes to keep everything on course. She lost because Americans don't want actual conservatism. They want change, and it's no wonder why.
Also nobody is in favor of small government when it suits them. Folks who get it with a natural disaster want the Fed to come in and help. Most people support a large, national military for defense. And our interstate highway couldn't be built by a small government. The "Conservative" Red states get more money from the fed than they put in and if you touch those subsidies expect their Senators to fight tooth and nail against you.
What you're really in for is "small enough to drown in a bathtub" government. In other words, small, local governments that can be pushed around by large power organizations. Even if that's not what you want, it's what the folks who fund and run the "small gov't" movement do. And they make the rules.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Trump's own estimate is that he only controls about 70% of what's going on in America. Even though his buddy Putin says that he's 90% in charge compared to Putin's 80% control of Russia.
Time for another journalist joke:
Q: What's the difference between a Saudi reformer journalist and chopped liver?
A: We know where the chopped liver is!
And MBS is 100% in control of Saudi Arabia. Trump can only be envious.
Hey, here's a solution to solve ALL the problems in one swoop. Trump can build the wall out of prison cells. Several stories tall because he wants a YUGE beautiful wall! Plenty of cells for all the immigrants and asylum seekers AND their children!
"Lock kids up, LOCK KIDS UP!"
My back of the envelope calculation says millions of cells, so there will still be plenty of empty ones for all of Trump's political enemies and journalists, too. If there are still any vacancies, they can convert some of the nice locations on the top floor into condominiums and sell them to Trump's great buddies from Russia, Saudi Arabia, and maybe some really stinking rich Asians who can qualify as honorary white people.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Liberal: The problem with Twitter is that there are too many Racists and Nazis.
Conservative: Oh so you're saying Twitter should ban conservatives?
Liberal: Uh, no, just Nazis, you know White Supremacists/Nationalists, people who describe themselves as such or even as Nazis, and often even include swastikas and stuff in their profiles.
Conservatives: Oh so you think conservatives are Nazis? Well I'll have you know that Nazis only applies to members of the German National Socialist Party between 1922 and 1946, so you ARE talking about banning conservatives.
Liberal: *headdesk*
A sizable number of conservatives have basically decided that Racists and Nazis are just ordinary conservatives. And the Nazis themselves have capitalized on it, with things like the "Unite the RIght" rally which wasn't a rally where people listened intently to speeches by Marco Rubio and Charles Krauthammer, and discussed the merits of flat taxes and deregulation, but, you know, involved flaming torches, chants against immigrants, blacks, and jews, and one flat out murder of a woman who had earlier in the day protested against neo-nazism.
And how many conservatives complained about "Unite the Right" and made it clear this bunch of lunatics had nothing to do with conservatism? None. Because you've gone completely blind in that area.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.