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US Bans Exports To Chinese DRAM Maker Citing National Security Risk (zdnet.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ZDNet: The Trump administration on Monday announced it was banning U.S. exports to a Chinese semiconductor firm named Fujian Jinhua Integrated Circuit Company, citing national security concerns. In a statement released by the U.S. Department of Commerce (DoC), officials said the Chinese chipmaker posed "a significant risk of being or becoming involved, in activities contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States." DoC officials are now barring US companies from selling any products to Fujian Jinhua, which was recently nearing completion of a new dynamic random access memory (DRAM) factory project. "When a foreign company engages in activity contrary to our national security interests, we will take strong action to protect our national security. Placing Jinhua on the Entity List will limit its ability to threaten the supply chain for essential components in our military systems," said Wilbur Ross, Secretary of Commerce.
They are involved in IP theft. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
In other words, ya gotta pay to play bitches! Call me when your check clears.
Way to go Mr President. While your noose [around China] is surely getting tighter, it may be advisable that you evaluate whether in the end, you may bite the arm that feeds you.
Folks are already paying a bit more for goods coming from China; China could dump the dollar. If this ever happened, we'd be in big trouble, fast.
All rather rich coming from Wilber Ross former vice chair of the bank of cypress.
"Jinhua is nearing completion of substantial production capacity for dynamic random access memory (DRAM) integrated circuits. The additional production, in light of the likely U.S.-origin technology, threatens the long term economic viability of U.S. suppliers of these essential components of U.S. military systems."
If competition is now a national security issue what isn't? Is there any limit to what controls designed to prevent export of Nuclear and military technology be used for? I understand the Micron drama but it's an abuse to misuse export controls in this way for revenge.
Ever since Trump declared Canada to be a threat to national security, it's really hard to take these declarations seriously.
I wonder what deal is he trying to wrangle from the company. Maybe he needs more investments in his golf courses and hotels.
So will China
Better the biting of the arm, well hand actually, happens now, rather than later on when the damage is even more irreparable.
China are clearly IP thieves, have been for some while, and are working against the west with no idea or desire of how to play fair. There is no international law in place of preventing this either, and at this point, it's unlikely there will be either. This is pretty much immutable at this point. So what are your plans for stopping this? No, I'm not an American (thank fuck, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us), and find Trump abhorrent in general, but I do find this his 'even a stopped clock is right once a day' moment.
They, and the communist party, can bare it.
An elected official? (And with term limits) Not so much.
Uh, much as I am loathe to defend a treasonous nazi fraud (and asshole) like Donald Jumpsuit Drumpf, "he" didn't ban anything. Furthermore it's a SINGLE company's products, not "all chinese RAM" as you seem to think.
There's actually a fairly simple rationale in this case - we cannot trust Chinese government ownership (specifically, Communist Party ownership!) of mission critical components ripe for abuse that can't be easily detected.
You are of course absolutely right about the price fixing companies, they should also be sanctioned appropriately. Then you go off into another argument about gun control... it doesn't follow.
So to recap, Trump's a moronic fraud, but let's be very specific about the treasons (plural) he's ACTUALLY guilty of, (with evidence, yes) as opposed to being reactionary weirdos ourselves, yes? Shape up.
Sometimes it takes a unpolished, sometimes a-hole to smash everything that's been going so wrong with globalization back in line. Well planned partnerships and fair cooperation is good for everyone but when someone steps out of line a stiff jab in the jaw will usually get them back in line, fast.
I prefer the "If you throw enough shit at the wall, some will stick" metaphor better when it comes to trump.
DRAM prices have been falling for a couple months now. RAM I bought a year ago for $200 are now selling for $130-$140. It had stayed at $200 until about june/july.
We also can't trust the American government with ownership of mission critical components. And government and corporations are just as entangled here as they are in China, the US government simply does a better job of obfuscating it.
Literally almost everything Trump accuses China of doing, the American government is equally guilty of doing. There are no good guys here.
So will China
China knows Trump will be out by 2024 at the latest. Perhaps as soon as 2020, if everything at Walmart ends up with jacked up prices. Trump's support base aren't exactly the kind of people who enjoy spending more money for things (otherwise they wouldn't be so afraid of the socialism boogeyman).
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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
They are already doing this on a regular basis to the detriment of governments every where. Currency speculation has become rampant and has a negative impact on market trading around the world.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/j...
Arent these made already in China?
Wrong. America can buy that same crap from s. Korea, Japan, Germany, and America. It may go up a bit, but it will drop again. But China will lose 10% of their economy, and that does not include the EU market which is also looking to follow suit.
That's a bit naive, if more or less factually correct, however when the US spies on itself it's at least slightly differentiated from a military adversary spying on us. It's a different mission, for better or worse - it is different.
Consider also, the US has a mission and responsibility to secure systems against foreign adversaries. That's a non-trivial point.
But again, TRUMP is a moron who has about zero point zero say in anything the US does here. He signs his name, that's his core competency. He isn't picking companies out as security threats, thank god. He's the autographer.
So is the US , you have had the 3 letter agencies steal tech foryou for years, you are just pissed the chinese found an easier way to do it ,they use the greed american companies against themselves .
Oh noes there is still a dollar in somebody leses pockets !! got to have it.
There has been little pushback from the left or right concerning the sanctions and increased tariffs the Trump administration has enacted against China or Russia. Hell the Chinese have been practically mute on the increased tariffs. Maybe they are just waiting things out to a new administration takes office? If that's their plan they might be in for a rude surprise when the next administration maintains and even strengthening the existing sanctions and tariffs. Trump has did something none of his predecessors would ever think of. He has rightly pointed out that the existing US trade policies and trade agreements put the US at a disadvantage. Trump's domestic and international detractors are not disputing the unfair agreements they are just upset he has brought the subject up in the first place. He broke the "Never talk about fight club" agreement.
China brazenly ignore 3 of the underlying principles of all the international trade agreements and practices.
The Chinese subsidize manufacturers which lowers the price of their major exports. They manipulate their currency instead of letting their currency value float in the international baskets. This also helps lower the prices of their exports. They do not respect any IP whether it be technical or simple entertainment. They basically steal technologies from others which cuts down on the R&D expenses they would incur if the technology is home grown. China has built their economy on quantity instead of quality and innovation. China has always practiced the China First methodology when dealing with the international community. Trump is only returning the love in terms the Chinese government can understand. The US might have a strong military but that is insignificant when compared against US international financial resources and power. Hell the Chinese government has stored vast amounts of it's wealth in the US. US Bonds and Securities are the most stable and reliable in the world. The billionaires in "the party" want the bulk of their wealth stored some place safe in case China goes tits up and they need to run for their lives.
The Chinese government is still an authoritarian government they are just real good at controlling the information flow to the rest of the world. At this very minute they are operating "Re-education" camps for their indigenous Muslim citizens. People forcibly removed from their homes and sent to camps and forced to renounce their religion. Cameras are installed in houses to watch for any Muslim practicing their religion. They make cash incentives available to any who turn someone in to the authorities if seen breaking the rules.
But again, TRUMP is a moron who has about zero point zero say in anything the US does here. He signs his name, that's his core competency. He isn't picking companies out as security threats, thank god. He's the autographer.
In other words, just because the government did it, does not mean Trump was responsible. If it is highly controversial, stupid, racist, misogynistic, said on fox news in the last hour, etc, well we can look closer at Trump. If it is a reasonable move without fanfare, it is likely just a symptom that the entire bureaucracy isn't broken yet.
The US is making anything in their hands to force the Chinese to become more independent in technology.
Let me tell what is going to happen,
- They are gong to buy the technology from other countries willing to selling it.
- US companies will lose business opportunities because now they are a competitive disadvantage with others companies willing to supply the same goods.
- Chinese companies who weren't able to compete because the preference for foreign technology, they now become an option and recollect more money that will
reinvest so their technology will become even better.
Remember folks, US put a ban on exporting Nuclear Technology to China, guess what nation is going to built HALF of the nuclear reactors in the world in the next ten years, you guessed, China.
How many reactors U.S. is planning to built in the next ten years, ZERO.
China are clearly IP thieves, have been for some while, and are working against the west with no idea or desire of how to play fair.
Is turnabout fair play? "Why America was the China of the 19th century."
* https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/
Thanks for fucking up the market for the whole world America.
China is a communist country first and foremost. Youâ(TM)re forgetting this in most of your arguments.
Chinaâ(TM)s government manipulates the international markets to enable them to eventually collapse the whole thing. If China is able to manufacture and produce everything needed without concern for money, they can effectively cut off the rest of the world. They have taken over market segment by market segment and made it so nearly everything from tooth brushes to airplanes cannot be manufactured without them providing at least some of the critical components. Go ahead and try to build an F-35 without buying epoxy for circuit boards from China. Try to run the oil economy without components from China.
Within 5-10 years, China will be the only self sufficient industrialized nation in the world. They actively collect recyclable waste from every country in the world. As such, they have some of the richest stockpiles of natural resources anywhere and in quantity. Hell, they practically own the entire rare earth minerals market.
By pumping Chinese money enmass into the western economies, they provide greater means for Westerners to depend more on China for bare survival. Letâ(TM)s be honest, why horde the money if you can use it to devalue the currency internationally as well as cause devestating international inflation.
Within 5-10 years, China should be able to implement a token or credit based national income with no dependence outside of China. They can financially seal their borders and deny necessities of life to any country that refuses to either become part of China or that impedes their interests in taking over Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, etc...
Why do people constantly forget that the agenda of China is not capitalism. Itâ(TM)s communism. Watch pretty much every governmental program in China and ask yourself âoeHow can this help further the communist interest?â
Dude. The Orange beast is fed by Russia. It's a natural gas steam engine.
Well, that's an encouraging amount of progress. To admit that the man might be right twice a day is a huge step forward. Not too long ago people were non ironically calling him a fascist dictator, which he clearly is not. Let's keep up this trend and soon enough he'll be just another politician you hate.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
number pulled from your ass...
In 2014, the unemployment rate for black people was over 11%. Now it's under 6%, the lowest in history.
That asshole is signing into law policies that work.
No it was lower before the civil war.
Now that Bloomberg article makes sense: it was supposed to set the stage for this. The doubt thrown on it has made them walk back the rhetoric, so the 'national security' verbiage doesn't make so much sense any more. That said, aside from some novel rowhammer-style attack (was that ever fixed?), I can't see DRAM being a security problem. Reliability, yes, but not security.
In any case, the military will add it to their 'will not buy' list, just like other Chinese/Russian tech. Trying to impede the completion of the factory is unnecessary unless they think it'll produce relabeled counterfeits. Presumably, Chinese-made NAND isn't a problem? The NAND fab they're about to open is going to have 50% larger production than the world's current-largest NAND company, and that's going to cause prices to plummet fast.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
China has been exporting deflation to other countries by keeping prices low you idiot.
No Comma Faggot, is that you?!
You don't really understand the whole 'currency thing,' do you? The Chinese need to keep the value of their currency down if they want to keep their prices low (i.e stay competitive), not the other way around.
...If it is highly controversial, stupid, racist, misogynistic, said on fox news in the last hour, etc, well we can look closer at Trump. If it is a reasonable move without fanfare, it is likely just a symptom that the entire bureaucracy isn't broken yet.
Wish I had mod points, that was very insightful (assuming you weren't trying to be sarcastic).
Wrong. America can buy that same crap from s. Korea, Japan, Germany, and America.
And where do you think they get it from?
You Americans sure loves to feed your middle men.
1 gallon of milk has always cost about the same as 1 gallon of gasoline.
Food in the US is cheap.
Medications are an indication of price gouging made possible by requiring everyone get "insurance".
That distorts the supply and demand curve, much in the way easy to get loans inflate college tuition prices.
Not to mention this jerk who milked it as much as he could.
Rents are going a little crazy in several cities, but only due to the number of people relocating to an area. Prices are quick to rise and slow to fall. Your best bet for rents is to have a generic job that can be done anywhere and move to a location that isn't in demand. Don't get attached to an area if it isn't affordable to you, be pragmatic. You can move back if you like once finances are fixed (i.e. owning multiple rentals in a cheaper city).
The cheapest car I've ever purchased was $800. It drove on the road for a couple years too.
This 3BR/2BA property is available as a rent-to-own for $395/month - within commute distance to Oklahoma City.
527 W College Avenue
Seminole, OK 74868
Work smarter, not harder.
It's really precious that you think the degenerates weren't always here. What you are noticing is that the quality posters have left, so the signal-to-noise ratio has lowered.
You didn't notice the noise when the signal was strong. Now you are straining to hear it through the static.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
".If it is highly controversial, stupid, racist, misogynistic, said on fox news in the last hour, etc, well we can look closer at Trump" - Because Trump himself supports such stupid shit, being a retarded traitor. What's hard about this?
Lots of Americas are dependent on Chinese made Iphones. Not sure how that can be seen as secure. Surely the fact that so many communications devices in the US use chinese made hardware is an even bigger national security risk.
You could replace "China" with "The United States" in your comment above and you would be absolutely spot-on about the early days of the US, as they blatantly broke British copyright laws, printed books cheaply without paying royalties and such.
Somehow, it seems emerging powers, if large enough, routinely take that route.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"When a foreign company is entering a valuable market which we want to control, we will take action to protect the freedom and safety of the American people" blah blah blah.
"We invented all the things (with help of 5 million foreign H1B workers who account for 70% of the scientific output for the last 2 decades) and so everyone is stealing our IP" etc. etc.
The grand American delusion that nobody else knows how to invent, build, or make stuff.
China are as much IP thieves as anybody who ever broke a copyright law. Their idea of the time of copyright is 0 years instead of eternity and more for the US.
Just like the US used to do in the past.
And as there was no risk to national security, he was not right to call that in to block it. That means the blocking of the company is not right.
Just because you shot a convicted terrorist by accident does not mean it isn't manslaughter and wrong. BOTH parties can be wrong.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Don't forget Canada have submarines to blast the US from behind! https://www.theglobeandmail.co...
About secret bugs installed in servers etc....
The notion of crying about IP theft is a bit dated.
The US has this weird corruption that Medicare isn't allowed to negotiate price of medicines.
The analogy with college tuition is apt. I suppose college needs more government funding and less loans. Contrary to "popular belief" that would be efficient and the general public or tax payers theoretically have their say. Very remote and theoretical say, but this shouldn't be given up.
With medications there's far less excuse for gouging. University real estate and professors are expensive, but making 100,000 boxes of pills instead of 50,000 isn't expensive at all. You in the US have an expensive Frankenstein system that doesn't answer any ideology anyway, capitalist or socialist or otherwise. It's some sort of mafia racket with Christian inspired necessity that keeps the emergency rooms open, because you can't be "evil" down to that point of locking ERs to the destitute and the working underclass or it would cause unacceptable health and sanitary problems.
Solving that single issue might solve much of what is wrong with the US (violence, poverty, financial insecurity) because the issue is so big.
very poetic... now take those headphones off and start reading.
It's still bad. With Windows 10 - 56 megabytes used by the calculator!, Ubuntu 18.04 64bit instead of Ubuntu 10.04 or 12.04 32bit , or web pages even with noscript and ad blocking, you just need more and more RAM. I had it better a decade a decade ago with 2GB RAM than today with 4GB RAM. I can't justify upgrading to new PC hardware because 16GB was high end a decade ago and still is high end today, such that it's the highest size on many products and is even unavailable on today's "netbooks" :)
Halved priced per gigabyte would be good, low end needs to go back to 8GB, 16GB more common.
My tab hoarding isn't even helped by RAM starvation, I'm not able anymore to load my tabs and prune them.
how about more fact checking such as this article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/technology/china-micron-chips-theft.html
> The US might have a strong military but that is insignificant when compared against US international financial resources and power.
What are you even blabbing about?
Soft power is a lot easier to lose then hard power and Trump is doing his best to erode US soft power all over the world, for no apparent reason other than to appease his idiot base.
So two wrongs make a right then?
Look, there's no comparing a small agrarian republic printing books and a megapower stealing stealth fighter designs and nanotech fabrication techniques. Not in the same ballpark, not the same league, ain't even the same motherfuckin' sport.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
that were exporting? Does the government make them whole? Of course the Chinese will explore the option of retaliating in kind.
So two wrongs make a right then?
No, actually three wrongs make a right, provided you turn on average 90 degrees.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
So they ban exports to Fujian, but not purchasing and importing from the same company? Did I miss something in the announcement underneath all the chest-thumping?
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
So two wrongs make a right then?
Look, there's no comparing a small agrarian republic printing books and a megapower stealing stealth fighter designs and nanotech fabrication techniques. Not in the same ballpark, not the same league, ain't even the same motherfuckin' sport.
Hey wait a minute, 6 months ago you said "China has TONS of internal problems. They have 300 million "modern" people, and one freaking billion poor peasants that they're responsible for."
So in 6 months they went from backwards shithole to "megapower"?
The Chinese will take the ram, reverse engineer it, and then dump THEIRS on the market cheaper, driving out the competition, then jacking the price up when they have the entire market. How do you think they got so successful in everything else? They COPY everything. In fact, in most places, to do business there, you have to give up some of your property "secrets".
Mute? The Chinese enacted counter sanctions on all their major US import products. Which include agricultural produce and airplanes and airplane parts. They also tried to negotiate with the US, but since each negotiator the US has sent them so far sings a different tune, they have realized it is better to just wait until the US has its mid-term elections until they try again.
There was more to it than that. The USA "stole" things like steel manufacturing processes and railroad technologies like steam engines, etc. Before that a lot of cotton-mill designs were also copied without license.
So two wrongs make a right? It's OK for China to do? I can eat ice cream for dinner because Billy's mom let him do it? This is just whataboutism.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
China are clearly IP thieves,
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. You can't steal IP it doesn't physically exist. You can violate it, you can't steal it.
A very slow clap for you, perhaps one of the most irrelevant pedants of all time.