Apple's Dual-SIM Tech Ruins Verizon Coverage (pcmag.com)

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Apple's Dual-SIM Tech Ruins Verizon Coverage (pcmag.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday October 30, 2018 @06:00AM from the closer-look dept.

Apple's new dual-SIM function, which lets iPhone XS, XS Max, and XR owners use two cellular subscriptions at once, will come to new phones today. But the current implementation will have a huge negative impact on Verizon subscribers who choose to use dual-SIM in the US, PCMag reported Tuesday, citing engineers who have seen early builds of the software. From the report: Dual-SIM, a popular feature in the rest of the world, is largely unknown in the US. Generally, it's used for three things: roaming internationally, where you get a foreign SIM and also keep your local number; having home and work lines on one phone; or trying out multiple domestic services to see which one is better. Apple's dual-SIM relies on one physical SIM and an "electronic SIM" or eSIM, which is activated from a menu or an app. AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon promised eSIM support at launch, but neither Verizon nor T-Mobile will support the eSIM right now. T-Mobile is working on it and will support eSIM when its software is ready, the carrier told me.

[...] The problem comes when a physical Verizon SIM is pushed into the "secondary" position while the phone is in the US. Under the current software build, that kicks the Verizon connection down to 2G CDMA, an old network with significantly less coverage than the current LTE network. The old network also has no MMS support, and certainly wouldn't work for FaceTime. So Verizon customers may find they have perfectly good coverage with their SIM in "primary" position, but no signal and fewer features with the SIM in "secondary." When I asked Verizon about the CDMA network, the company said that 30 percent of its cell sites were now LTE-only, so there would be a definite coverage hit.

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Skeletons falling out of the closet by Gabest · 2018-10-30 06:04 · Score: -1, Troll

Apple is said to innovate, but their hardware always lags behind.
1. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by Frequency+Domain · 2018-10-30 06:11 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  "...but neither Verizon nor T-Mobile will support the eSIM right now."
  That summary sounds like the problem is with Verizon, not with Apple.
2. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by saloomy · 2018-10-30 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, it is probably with Apple, since the second SIM only supports 2g and no MMS? How are you supposed to comparison shop when one has such limitations?
  I'm not sure if this is an Apple code, something an update can fix, or if this is common on dual sim phones?
3. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  The article says that it is a software issue. Article says Dual-SIM phones are not a thing in the USA, and I've never heard of them before now,... So, extrapolating from that I would say that this is indeed a "common issue" for Dual-SIM phones in the USA...
4. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by RenderSeven · 2018-10-30 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  Google Fi uses eSim to access T-Mobile and Sprint, starting with the ancient Nexus and xconttinuing through the Pixel. So, no, not T-Mobile's fault.
5. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by slack_justyb · 2018-10-30 06:34 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Still a nope. The secondary position only switches to that band because of the US network. Reread the article and you'll note that pushing the SIM into secondary outside of the US works just fine. The thing to note is that when you push a SIM into the secondary position, the device will attempt to ask the cell service to allow only inbound calls, since all outbound calls are done via the primary. Apparently, US cell networks explode in a puff of "WAAAA??" when asked to do this, and just go lowest common denominator in the confusion.
  In short, asking a US carrier to provide an "inbound only" line is witchcraft and the iPhone just deals with the mass pandemonium as best as can be expected.
6. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:39 · Score: 0
  
  The way this works internationally is that you have two SIMs (usually actual SIM cards, not eSIMs) and you can choose which SIM is used for what. In some phones, the SIM card slots are hardwired for use with the different radios, so for example a SIM in slot 1 can be used with 2G, 3G or 4G, but a SIM in slot 2 can only be used with 2G. To use the second SIM with 3G or 4G, you would have to swap the actual SIM cards around. In more modern phones, the SIM cards are assigned to the radios by software, but typically you can still only use one of the cards on 3G or 4G, while the other card is used for voice only and limited to 2G, maybe 3G. There are also phones where only one card can be actively used at a time, so for example if you get a call on the card that is not used for data, you lose the data connection for the duration of the call. There are many different ways dual-sim is implemented.
  The story sounds like the phone can dynamically assign the actual SIM card and the eSIM to the radios, but one of the radios is 2G-only. Without support for the eSIM by Verizon, that's the only way to assign the SIM card to the secondary radio, and if that causes a downgrade, then it must be a limitation of the radio, i.e. the phone.
7. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anubis+IV · 2018-10-30 06:51 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Actually, it is probably with Apple, since the second SIM only supports 2g and no MMS
  By that logic, your up-to-date browser is at fault for using an old encryption method to talk with a site that hasn't yet been updated to work with newer encryption.
  Just as a browser will fallback to an older method in order to talk to a site that hasn't been updated, the eSIM is falling back to what little support it has until the carriers add full support.
8. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by dgatwood · 2018-10-30 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  The fact that Sprint (same wireless tech as Verizon) and AT&T (same wireless tech as T-Mobile) are *not* mentioned makes me wonder if this is a tower firmware bug that will be fixed soon.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
9. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by viperidaenz · 2018-10-30 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  Unless Apple chose a proprietary esim? Because, I don't know, they want to be like Microsoft was in the 90's with a "we're big enough for everyone to follow our stuff and not established standards" attitude?
10. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 07:19 · Score: 0
  
  WTH canâ(TM)t Apple just launch their own MVNO? Iâ(TM)ve been using a Google Fi SIM in my iPhone for the last ~18 months and could not be happier.
11. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 07:20 · Score: 0
  
  It is not. Lumia 950 dual SIM had the same issue on AT&T's network. One SIM had to use the 2G network, so the second SIM was only usable on carriers with 2G network.
12. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by dissy · 2018-10-30 07:44 · Score: 2
  
  Google Fi uses eSim to access T-Mobile and Sprint, starting with the ancient Nexus and xconttinuing through the Pixel.
  The pixel 2 eSIM will not work *at all* on t-mobile, let alone at slow speeds. I've heard the same complaint regarding verizon as well.
  So yes, this is totally a t-mobile/verizon problem.
  If as you say the pixel 3 fixed this, then that's great - but I do have my doubts.
  This article from 5 days ago says pretty much the same thing:
  https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-3-esim-918312/
  
  However, the three major U.S. carriers which have stated they will support eSIM tech - Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile- do not currently have systems in place to support eSIM, at least not yet.
  For the time being then, the Pixel 3 eSIM will only work with Project Fi and other select global carriers which support the tech. But at least you can rest assured that at some point in the future it will work here at home on at least three of the Big Four carriers.
13. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  They are not a big thing here, but they have been available here & there.
  A few years back I carried a Lumia 950 XL which had dual sim support. It was useful when traveling abroad I could put home T-Mobile SIM in the secondary slot and still be able to send/receive calls/texts from home on my main number, and put a local SIM in the primary for high speed data.
  Originally I'd planned to keep the home sim in the primary slot, only ran into an issue like what this describes, that the secondary SIM was limited to non LTE connections.
14. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by RenderSeven · 2018-10-30 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  I can't say where the disconnect is, but Google Fi *is* T-Mobile (and Sprint). How can Fi use T-Mobile towers with eSim, but T-Mobile can't use T-Mobile towers with eSim. Maybe I'm no expert here, but that doesn't sound like a strictly technical problem.
  
  I'm entering this post on a Pixel 2 with no sim card, connected to a T-Mobile tower (LTE), so pretty sure it works.
15. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 08:04 · Score: 0
  
  This is how most dual sim phones have worked. Your primary sim provides LTE data/voice services the secondary just provides 2g voice and texting services.
  The difference with every other dual sim phone is they used physical dual sims, you could easily swap which sim was providing your LTE data services.
16. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, it is probably with Apple, since the second SIM only supports 2g and no MMS? How are you supposed to comparison shop when one has such limitations?
  I don't follow. Why would Apple care whether you are on Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, or some other network? If anyone would want to make it more difficult to comparison shop between telcos, it would be the telcos themselves.
17. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by dissy · 2018-10-30 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  I can't say where the disconnect is, but Google Fi *is* T-Mobile (and Sprint). How can Fi use T-Mobile towers with eSim, but T-Mobile can't use T-Mobile towers with eSim. Maybe I'm no expert here, but that doesn't sound like a strictly technical problem.
  I'm entering this post on a Pixel 2 with no sim card, connected to a T-Mobile tower (LTE), so pretty sure it works.
  That's the thing, I don't know where the disconnect is either, but I have a pixel 2 and do NOT have google-fi.
  Three t-mobile reps have all stated I can not use eSIM with them, they do not sell eSIM access, and the only way to use the phone with their service/accounts directly is to get a physical SIM (Which to their benefit was offered to me for free)
  When searching around to figure out WTF, every forum post I came across was people saying the same thing.
  When it comes to esim I'm no expert either, but all I gather is that it isn't a problem at the tower end, but is within t-mobiles network.
  A sim identifies both you as a subscriber as well as to what carrier.
  The towers must be allowing both t-mobile and google-fi identifications to authenticate and route to the right place properly, but yea it kinda does sound like t-mobile not able to route t-mobile tower traffic to them with eSIM like they do with normal SIMs.
  If you launch your eSIM Manager, you should see clearly that it can support switching carriers separately from what towers/radios it uses to get there.
  So where ever the problem is, it is within t-mobile not allowing it, with the claims they are still setting up esim tech on their network.
18. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  Wow, that's completely wrong. I have a Pixel 2 XL, my wife and daughter both have a Pixel 2 (non XL version). All are on Google Fi which uses T-Mobile primarily in my area (it falls over to Sprint and even to us-cellular when the signal is better on those). And they all use e-SIM and they all work fine. LTE connections, good speed, etc.
19. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by stooo · 2018-10-30 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  >> WTH canâ(TM)t Apple just launch their own MVNO?
  Because they want to sell phones to all their primary customer which are the carriers, not alienate them !
  
  --
  aaaaaaa
20. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by dissy · 2018-10-30 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, that's completely wrong. I have a Pixel 2 XL, my wife and daughter both have a Pixel 2 (non XL version). All are on Google Fi which uses T-Mobile primarily in my area
  So google-fi service can use esims on t-mobile towers.
  But t-mobile service can NOT use esims on their own towers, which isn't completely wrong, or wrong at all, and t-mobile representatives will out right tell you this if you try to get esim on your t-mobile account to work.
  My t-mobile service can also use at&t towers without having an at&t account, so that's hardly the surprising part.
  The surprising part is that t-mobiles own carrier service can't use esims on their own towers, when their own towers support it. The problem must be further back on their network.
  Go ahead and try to sign up for t-mobile esim service on any of your pixel 2's, you'll find they will not sell that to you and claim they don't support it on their end, which not at all clearly means their service/carrier end, not their towers.
21. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by segin · 2018-10-30 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Apple is dual-LTE dual-standby when both operators are pure 3GPP (GSM/UMTS/LTE/NR) instead of 3GPP2 (CDMA) plus 3GPP (LTE). Getting CDMA and LTE to work in Android phones years ago was a fucking clusterfuck for OEMs.
22. Re:Skeletons falling out of the closet by segin · 2018-10-30 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Provisioning. T-Mobile doesn't have the system in place to remote-provision a eSIM. Project Fi works by using their own infrastructure to constantly reprovision the (e)SIM (this is also done for their traditional SIMs.)
  Because Project Fi uses multiple subscriber identities (basically multiple independent SIM cards rolled into one, one for each underlying network - T-Mobile, Sprint, and US Cellular) and dynamically swaps them out throughout the day, they have to handle this themselves instead of relying on regular carrier procedures.
23. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by segin · 2018-10-30 10:11 · Score: 4, Informative
  Multi-SIM phones aren't common in the US because of incompatible networks and frequency bands, and a drive (by American consumers) for high-speed mobile data.
  Most multi-SIM phones limit one or more SIMs to 2G GSM only, which limits those secondary SIMs to the T-Mobile network in most locations. (There are other 2G GSM networks, but ALL of those others are small regional networks with seriously limited coverage, and T-Mobile already has roaming agreements in place with all of them.)
  Getting LTE and CDMA working in the same phone on a single SIM involved enough hacks as it is (this is why Verizon's earliest global phones used the SIM solely for the GSM modem and kept the CDMA modem totally separate, it took OEMs years to work out all the bugs). Getting it working over multiple SIMs is, of course, going to be a nightmare.
  The rest of the world avoids this by:
  
  1. Using a single technology stack (3GPP's GSM, UMTS, LTE, and NR), and completely eschewing (or having already completely shut down) anything on the 3GPP2 (cdmaOne, CDMA2000 1xRTT, and CDMA2000 1xEV-DO) technology stack.
  2. Not charging subscribers for incoming calls. (but everyone pays premium calling rates to call a cell phone.)
  3. Having consumers that are perfectly happy with their mobile internet running at 90s dial-up speeds (EDGE speeds in practice do not go over 70kbit/s on a moderately-used cell site).
24. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by thegarbz · 2018-10-30 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  As a theoretical discussion, why would the phone announce where it is pushing outgoing calls? Why would the network need to know at all?
25. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by segin · 2018-10-30 10:17 · Score: 1
  
  It's not to do with "US networks" and the phone isn't trying to tell the network to refuse outbound calls. It's due to glitchiness in handling 3GPP and 3GPP2 networks at the same time in the same baseband modem.
26. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by RenderSeven · 2018-10-30 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the info! So while Google may be better than others at this, and it probably isn't trivial, it sounds straightforward to implement. It's back-office stuff rather than infrastructure. It still seems as if T-Mobile could do this if they really wanted to? If so what's their downside to doing (or not doing) it?
27. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by segin · 2018-10-30 10:33 · Score: 2
  
  Hell, let me add this: Verizon's earliest global phones were "technically" dual-SIM. The CDMA modem and GSM modem could function (although the firmware programming for this was absent) simultaneously and independently and used two independent subscriber identities.
  From the perspective of the firmware, it was just two independent cell modems, and was handled much the same as a dual-SIM phone was, although with the hacks to make them appear as one for the sake of delivering the user experience Verizon sold the end user on.
28. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 12:35 · Score: 0
  
  That's an issue or limitation common to all dual SIM phones except the newer ones.
  My favorite phone is 2G dual SIM, so I don't care too much either way.
29. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by thegarbz · 2018-10-30 23:15 · Score: 1
  
  3. Having consumers that are perfectly happy with their mobile internet running at 90s dial-up speeds
  Huh? Can you explain this one? From a technical point of view that is. From a human consumer point of view you don't need to explain because it's completely wrong and shitty EDGE is not tollerated much less makes people "happy"
30. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 23:52 · Score: 0
  
  3. Having consumers that are perfectly happy with their mobile internet running at 90s dial-up speeds (EDGE speeds in practice do not go over 70kbit/s on a moderately-used cell site)
  I take it you don't travel much.
31. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by unixisc · 2018-10-31 00:13 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't the solution to this be to have Verizon as the physical SIM, and the GSM 2G carrier the eSIM?? Unless someone's trying to carry both Verizon and Sprint?
32. Re: Skeletons falling out of the closet by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-31 12:57 · Score: 0
  
  I wonder why, though. I mean, what problem is there to register for a standard 2-way, inbound+outbound, and simply not route any outbound data to the 2nd sim? It's the phone that decides which SIM the outbound data is pushed to. Never push any to 2nd sim, problem solved.
What by sexconker · 2018-10-30 06:08 · Score: 3, Insightful

How is this Apple's fault? This is 100% on Verizon. Verizon controls what network a device can connect to. MAYBE Apple's eSIM shit is wonky in some way, but since it works on 2G, that means Verizon can at least get the basic details from the SIM and talk to the device. That means they can associate it with a customer account and can put it on the proper network.
This is Verizon's fault.
1. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:15 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Even the summary says that the networks promised support, then didn't follow through. Why that's being posed as Apple's fault in the summary makes no sense, unless you take into account the click-bait appeal of slamming Apple.
2. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  According to the article, Apple is rolling out unfinished technology. Technology for which there is not an established market in the USA. Thus it isn't Verizon's fault, it is just a "teething issue".
3. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:20 · Score: 0
  
  "Didn't follow through"?
  In this world of push the code, patch it later, how can this be a "didn't follow through". They promised support, and they are still promising support. This is what the modern deployment of new technologies looks like. Stop faulting one or the other, and just read the summary as an objective unemotional analysis. The summary is only click-baity if you read into it an attempt to click bait. Otherwise it is simply a brief description of the fact that Apple is deploying eSIM tech before Verizon and T-Mobile have readied their networks for it.
4. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:42 · Score: 0
  
  I am not so sure it is 100% Verizon. If the same SIM in the same slot in the same phone can work with LTE, how come it can't when it is in the secondary position?
  Does the SIM tells it is not the primary? Does Verizon update their software to downgrade the connection when it detects the SIM is not primary?
  I think this is just a premature launch of eSIM when the networks are not ready.
5. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 07:03 · Score: 0
  
  Well come on, be fair, Verizon only had about two years to support something they REALLY dont want...
6. Re:What by viperidaenz · 2018-10-30 07:08 · Score: 0
  
  Old radio chipsets with dual sim support used to only 2G connectivity on one of the sims if both were active.
  Apple just doesn't want to fork out the extra dollar for better hardware.
7. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 07:43 · Score: 0
  
  they could have made both sims physical.
8. Re:What by Calydor · 2018-10-30 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  That's like saying a gaming console is 'unfinished technology' until the last game for it has been released.
  
  --
  -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
9. Re:What by Darth · 2018-10-30 10:00 · Score: 2
  
  from the article :
  "AT&T's and T-Mobile's systems work fine in either the primary or secondary positions, supporting those carriers' voice-over-LTE networks."
  so, explain to me how this is because of apple's hardware, but is only broken for verizon.
  
  --
  Darth --
  Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
10. Re:What by thegarbz · 2018-10-30 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  According to the article, Apple is rolling out unfinished technology.
  They are doing no such thing. The only new technology in play here is eSIM. The only new feature of eSIM that isn't part of the standard SIM package is remote provisioning. This incidentally is also something that carriers around the world (including the USA) have already implemented.
  It's little more than a curios quirk as to why this technology only fails to work in America and yet works just fine in the rest of the world.
11. Re:What by parkinglot777 · 2018-10-31 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon promised eSIM support at launch, ...
  What does this tell you? It is in the summary as well. Your last sentence is debunked.
Apple? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:08 · Score: 0

More like CRAPPLE!
"apple's tech" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:15 · Score: 0

Always pioneering in things others have been doing for years.
Just like rounded corners, touch screens, and smart phones.
Ugghlimited by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:15 · Score: 0

Under the current software build, that kicks the Verizon connection down to 2G CDMA
Sounds like a clever way to rate-limit the data connection to avoid data overrages.
What is the final frontier? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:39 · Score: 0

Pubes.
Apple forcing progress once again by SuperKendall · 2018-10-30 06:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Apple is rolling out unfinished technology.
Not unfinished on Apple's side though. Works fine in Europe.
All that is unfinished is the U.S. carrier side, where carriers are dragging feet. I think Apple has done the right thing, which is to release it as is and let carriers start to take support calls based on shoddy or incomplete network support for what is a standard feature is many other countries...

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Apple forcing progress once again by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 08:24 · Score: 0
  
  > I think Apple has done the right thing, which is to release it as is and let carriers start to take support calls based on shoddy or incomplete network support for what is a standard feature is many other countries...
  Correct. Reminds me of the 2009-2010 timeframe when AT&T's network was getting absolutely blasted with all the new iPhones coming online. That was a carrier problem exposed by the handset doing what it was supposed to be doing too.
2. Re:Apple forcing progress once again by AmiMoJo · 2018-10-31 00:45 · Score: 1
  
  Even in Europe it's not perfect.
  Carriers are obliged to allow users to roam on to their networks within the EU, but many of them offer an inferior service. For example they might limit roaming users to 3G and slow speeds (Verizon limiting to 2G is exceptionally shitty).
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
3. Re:Apple forcing progress once again by vlueboy · 2018-10-31 10:45 · Score: 1
  
  Apple is rolling out unfinished technology.
  Not unfinished on Apple's side though. Works fine in Europe.
  All that is unfinished is the U.S. carrier side, where carriers are dragging feet. I think Apple has done the right thing, which is to release it as is and let carriers start to take support calls based on shoddy or incomplete network support for what is a standard feature is many other countries...
  This is informative, thanks. More examples for "perfect" is the enemy of the good, but leaving each company to implement things on their own led us to almost two decades of randomness. Prior to ubiquitous Android and Apple accounts every phone switch kept making us face the question "will my next phone support my previous one's SIM card so I can carry my contacts without manual regeneration of my address book? will it even have a sim slot?"
  With this dual-sim situation we'll have another 2 decades of annoying disparate arrangements. The US yet again fosters intentional levels of functional fragmentation on phone service because of greed. From what I hear under other threads, the problem isn't extant in Europe and Asia. Standards in those lands have apparently been implemented properly all across the markets so you don't have to go "Oh, you're on $cheap_provider so I can't do $activity with you there" (though I find it weird that this perfection reportedly requires turning the second SIM into a receive-only call sink). /. historical posts also state that Europe apparently has no fragmentation when it comes to taking any regular non-premium phone / sim across the continent as you travel and just connecting it to any provider.
  I am also thinking of Android fragmentation since the economics follow a similar "we the providers won't establish nor follow nice standards... they are anathema to our business models of vendor lock-in, planned obsolescence."
4. Re:Apple forcing progress once again by SuperKendall · 2018-10-31 15:09 · Score: 1
  
  What you say is true about the U.S. However the EU system of phones supporting dual sims was born of a terrible situation where lots of people might go between different countries often and HAVE to use two sims!! I lived In the Netherlands for a short time, and visiting Germany found I couldn't even roam with a Netherlands sim - I had to have a totally different SIM I bought in Germany, even from the same phone company. Horrible.
  I actually prefer the arrangement I have now with T-Mobile, where I have a single sim and can use it anywhere on Earth pretty much, with no roaming fees (just slower data in some places, but fast enough to use email and maps well and light browsing).
  I agree it will be nice to see the standard slowly spread but I kind of wonder who needs two sims anymore since good roaming abilities seem to have spread to a lot of places now. But I guess at the very least having a sim for business and a sim for a personal number would always be useful.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Patently False by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:45 · Score: -1

Contrary to the headline, the iPhone dual SIM does NOTHING to Verizon coverage. It in NO WAY impacts Verizon's network nor does it impact other Verizon subscribers in any way.
A bad software implementation causes users of the new iPhone who select a Verizon SIM in the secondary slot to suffer degraded performance and coverage. This is an iPhone software problem that affects only iPhone users that have a Verizon SIM in the secondary slot.
Again, this is an implementation failure on Apple's part and not a failure or impact to Verizon's netowrk.
This issue ONLY AFFECTS narcissistic, navel gazing, iPhone hipsters. Fuck you, whoever wrote and posted that headline.
1. Re: Patently False by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  What?
LOL fuck apple by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:49 · Score: 0

more fashion than tech.
Obviously...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 06:51 · Score: 0

This is Trump's fault
1. Re:Obviously...... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 07:05 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks, Obama.
wtf? by viperidaenz · 2018-10-30 07:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

This is 2018. How do you not have LTE on both sims?
This was a restriction dual sim phones used to have like 5 years ago
1. Re:wtf? by Darth · 2018-10-30 10:06 · Score: 2
  
  it does have LTE on both sims. this problem only exists with verizon sims in the united states. at&t and t-mobile sims work with LTE in both primary and secondary positions. verizon sims work with LTE in the secondary position in europe.
  
  --
  Darth --
  Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
2. Re:wtf? by viperidaenz · 2018-10-30 11:26 · Score: 2
  
  Sounds like the secondary radio doesn't support the LTE bands that Verizon uses?
Fourth thing by Colourspace · 2018-10-30 07:21 · Score: 1

OP forgot to list the fourth reason which is maintaining a secret second number for the purpose of having an affair. Side hoe 101.
US cellphone oligopoly by jbr439 · 2018-10-30 07:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's truly ludicrous that outside of North America, dual SIM phones are the norm, whereas in NA, it is impossible to buy a phone from a carrier that is dual SIM (at least that's the case in Canada). That kind of nonsense is the result of having oligopolies. I voted with my wallet and bought a dual SIM Xiaomi from a third party. Will likely do so next time I need a phone as well.
1. Re:US cellphone oligopoly by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 08:22 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It's so common that the dual-SIM version of the Moto G phones are cheaper than the single-SIM versions. Nothing else is different in the phones.
It's a feature, not a bug by aitikin · 2018-10-30 08:04 · Score: 1

Verizon users now have to utilize their Verizon SIM as the primary. As such, Verizon stands to see users utilizing their network as the primary more often and therefore, their data, which they can then charge more for...I don't see this getting solved quickly.

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"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Of course it doesn’t work with our network by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 08:36 · Score: 0

However for an additional fee . . .
Android is the same by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 09:16 · Score: 0

It varies by device, my current phone from Nokia limits the 2nd SIM slot to 3G speeds, no LTE, only the 1st (primary) slot gets LTE access.
1. Re:Android is the same by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 12:41 · Score: 0
  
  This has been the case with every dual-SIM implementation. Most travelers figured out the system a long time ago.
2. Re: Android is the same by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 12:46 · Score: 0
  
  thats not true. chinese phones have dual 4g for a long time. i have one right now.
I looked into getting a dual SIM phone once by prowler1 · 2018-10-30 10:03 · Score: 1

I had a job which forced me to use a company provided phone. This resulted in me carrying my personal phone and the work phone. So I looked into the whole dual SIM thing so I only needed one phone.
Basically none of the mobile providers in Australia would supply a dual SIM phone. Looks like they were scared of the competition and didn't want you to have a competitors SIM in your phone with theirs that you purchased through them. The only real option was to buy a phone outright through a non-telco provider and even then, a number of the models were grey imports from China.
1. Re:I looked into getting a dual SIM phone once by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 11:18 · Score: 0
  
  Fortunately for Samsung phones the dual sim variants are the same as the local models - eg. for the Galaxy S8 you can buy an international g950-fd whereas a local telstra version will be a g950f (no d). The firmware for both however is the same, so you can flash telstra firmware onto the international dual sim model and all features like voLTE and rcs work without a hitch.
2. Re:I looked into getting a dual SIM phone once by unixisc · 2018-10-31 00:20 · Score: 1
  
  But if one has 2 numbers - one for work and one for home from the same carrier, dual SIM phones can be useful. Although one reason for having separate phone numbers is to have separate phones
Actually good for Verizon by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 11:38 · Score: 0

Verizon wants this, because then you'll make Verizon your primary SIM.
Apple is wormed? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-10-30 13:12 · Score: 0

OnePlus 5T does ATT as SIM1 & VZW as SIM2. No problem.
printer not activated error code 20 by maria365 · 2018-10-30 21:35 · Score: 1

Apple's dual-SIM relies on one physical SIM and an "electronic SIM" or eSIM, which is activated from a menu or an app. AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon promised eSIM support at launch, but neither Verizon nor T-Mobile will support the eSIM right now. T-Mobile is working on it and will support eSIM when its software is ready. If anyone face printer error clicks here https://www.hpsupporthelpline....