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Researchers Defeat Perceptual Ad Blockers, Declare 'New Arms Race' (vice.com)

dmoberhaus writes: Perceptual ad blockers were supposed to be the "superweapon" that put an end to the arms race between advertisers and users. According to new research, however, perceptual ad blockers will come out on the losing side in the war against internet advertisers and expose users to a host of new attack vectors in the process. Researchers at Stanford tricked six different visual classifiers used in perceptual ad blockers with adversarial ads designed to trick the ad blockers by making nearly imperceptible changes to the ads. "The researchers tried several different adversarial attacks on the perceptual ad blockers' visual classifiers," Motherboard reports. "One attack, for example, slightly altered the AdChoices logo that is commonly used to disclose advertisements to fool the perceptual ad blocker. In another attack, the researchers demonstrated how website publishers could overlay a transparent mask over a website that would allow ads to evade perceptual ad blockers."

"The aim of our work is not to downplay the merits of ad-blocking, nor discredit the perceptual ad blocking philosophy, which is sound when instantiated with a robust visual ad detector," the researchers concluded. "Rather, our overarching goal is to highlight and raise awareness on the vulnerabilities that arise in building ad blockers with current computer vision systems."

144 comments

  1. Why visual? by DogDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would they test a visual ad blocker? Who uses those? All the ad blockers I have ever seen block domains. A visual ad blocker seems doomed to fail.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't hear this

    2. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would they test a visual ad blocker? Who uses those? All the ad blockers I have ever seen block domains. A visual ad blocker seems doomed to fail.

      Domain blocking may not work forever. You could certainly pass through ads so it all comes from the same server, if that is what it took.

      I can just see say 10 years from now.... Hey look with the newest firefox with super U-block with next generation artificial intelligence it only takes a quad SLI video card and 32 cores to effectively render a web page without ads and prevent common malware.

      Maybe we will just boot everything from the internet with the newest daily blockpoint of the OS with the next 100 security fixes installed....

    3. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both Firefox and Chrome, without plug-ins, can still easily creep up to 1 GB+ of memory usage and run slowly on popular sites.

      The future is now.

    4. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Look at Slashdot. It gets passed most ad blockers. And now we have usually less than 100 comments per article... oh, wait....

    5. Re: Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea is for the method to work regardless of anti-adblocking tech employed. Clearly there are flaws.

    6. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really? What is these ad's your talking about ... Firefox+Ublock Origin.

    7. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i have been adblocking for over a decade, my blocklist is staggeringly huge. every conceivable element and filter is mostly covered by now. they will have a hard time gettign through my defenses.

    8. Re: Why visual? by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1

      Usually ads served by the same site I'm visiting are the least annoying. Unless they're paywall notifications.

      If my ad blocker doesn't block my favorite site properly I'll use Stylus instead.

      --
      (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
    9. Re:Why visual? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Those ads that embed the jpeg file in the html itself are a pain to block.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    10. Re:Why visual? by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      For any site you visit frequently, you can always write a simple Chrome or Firefox extension to do it.

      I have one that makes the comment boxes take up full screen width, but I can easily modify it to hide the ads (if my adblock wasn't doing it already).

    11. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's just fine, because one of the biggest problems with ads isn't that people don't want to see them, it's that their data is getting harvested by companies that have no relationship with the page you've opted to view other than to display ads on it. They've long taken advantage of that to build up a profile of you, even though most people don't know these companies exist.

      It's the fact that what used to be seen as a hack, a vulnerability, an exploit, has been used wholesale by the ad industry to create profiles, often illegally, of people whom have never given their consent, and who don't even know it's happening that's the problem.

      I don't care if I visit a site and they show me an ad they're hosting themselves and have sold that space to someone to display the ad.

      I care if I visit a site and a 3rd party I don't even know is there and have absolutely no association with tracks me and builds a profile on me.

    12. Re:Why visual? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably for handling the issue with video material, preferable at real time for the live news streams.

    13. Re: Why visual? by aix+tom · · Score: 1

      Usually ads served by the same site I'm visiting are the least annoying.

      +1.

      I don't really hate ads in general. I only hate *annoying* ads.
      So I don't need an ad blocker that blocks 100% of ads, I just need it to block the annoying/dangerous ones.

    14. Re: Why visual? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Most of the annoying ads can be defeated by simply turning javascript off, or selectively on for only the site serving the actual content.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:Why visual? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Domain blocking may not work forever.

      (Cue an APK rant on how that is not true and how domain blocking is the superior solution)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re: Why visual? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Most of the annoying ads can be defeated by simply turning javascript off, or selectively on for only the site serving the actual content.

      Bingo. Use something like NoScript and 99% of ads just disappear.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    17. Re:Why visual? by Megane · · Score: 1

      I make every attempt to block the player applet every time I find a site pushing auto-play video at me (including the "click to see more" type that still plays silent video) with no way to disable the auto-play function. Doubly so for the ones that have "pop-out" video when you scroll it off the window. If they are so insecure in their self worth that they think they need to annoy you to get seen, then they weren't worth watching. The few times I actually might want to see something, I can open the page in my alternate browser.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  2. Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    If ads get too pervasive and hard to block people could just disable JavaScript completely.

    1. Re:Javascript by ChromeAeonuim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's how I do it. I use NoScript, and rarely ever see ads. The ads themselves are all being served up from some other site anyway, so even if I allow the scripts coming from the site itself, the ads are still blocked, which is fine by me.

      If advertisers really want me to see ads, the simple solution is to stop being assholes. Stop using tricks like native advertising to deceive users, stop redirecting to God knows which questionable and potentially malicious sites, stop advertising scams, and in general stop being so hostile. They'll piss and moan about how I'm taking away advertising revenue, when really, all I want to do is keep myself and my machine safe. You guys are the ones who started the hostile behavior, not me, so don't be surprised when I react accordingly.

      If they really want me to see ads, it is simple. Have an image, using standard basic Img tag, saying 'Drink Brand X Cola!' or whatever, clearly linking to brandXcola.com. There, simple. No scams, no malware, no tricks, transparent and honest. If they don't want to do that, then it's not my problem if someone's unethical behavior bites them in the ass.

    2. Re:Javascript by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Yep. I disable javascript on every website that try to shove videos at me, since they've managed to defeat autoplay-blocking plugins. "Content" videos are more annoying than most advertisements anyway. And while the site may not work without javascript, if it doesn't that simply means it won't get further visits.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    3. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use the ABP element hider instead of more plugins (ublock has a similar thing last time I checked but it's harder to use imo). Open it up, find the largest html structure containing the video player that doesn't have anything else you care about in it, and hit enter. From there 95% of the time you can blacklist either the id or class attribute, optionally after trimming it and/or inserting wildcards where necessary.

      For a site you regularly use the best thing is to go in and aggressively blacklist all page elements you don't care about (sidebars, headers, footers, videos, etc.), all third party bullshit, and all scripts that aren't strictly necessary. Ideally clicking an article should download nothing but a 5kb text file containing virtually nothing except the actual stuff you want to read and load absolutely instantly even on the shittiest connection.

    4. Re:Javascript by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"If advertisers really want me to see ads, the simple solution is to stop being assholes"

      But the reality is, that will never happen. They will never stop using:

      1) Animation of any type (scroll, change, fade, flip, whatever)
      2) Video of any type
      3) Sound
      4) Pop-overs, pop-unders, mouse-overs, and overlays
      5) HUGE portions of the screen

      The genie is not going back into the bottle. Had they never done the above, I would never have had that much motivation to block them. And that is even before considering the security, cpu, memory, bandwidth, speed, battery, tracking/privacy, and all the many other issues with ads.

    5. Re:Javascript by markdavis · · Score: 0

      >"If ads get too pervasive and hard to block people could just disable JavaScript completely."

      Which breaks 90+% of all websites. This isn't 1990 or even 2000. Sure, you can spend countless hours trying to use something like Noscript to select which domains, and which portions, and which scripts, and where, and update them constantly as things change and every time you encounter a new site, and constantly troubleshoot what is breaking what. But the overwhelming majority of people have neither the technical skills to do that, nor the time or patience.

    6. Re:Javascript by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      I wish we could just block tags. Blocking the HTML tag would work for a lot of the ads and the most annoying of them with sound. Maybe there is support for it but I haven't checked recently.

    7. Re:Javascript by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      Whoops looks like it ate <video>, had to type &lt; and &gt; to make it work right.

    8. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't forget, #6: Malvertising. The "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" game with the blackhats, so their ad server "by accident" serves up malware. Because the ad places don't care to clean up their act, ads are a security threat, and arguably the biggest infection vector next to phishing these days.

      I run ad blockers for security. If a website demands ad blockers be disabled, they are lumped in as an accessory to computer trespass, and I go somewhere else.

    9. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to Web 101.

    10. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Which breaks 90+% of all websites. This isn't 1990 or even 2000.

      Which is a real shame. The Internet of 2000 was a far nicer place than it is these days. So much less bloat. Honestly, we could do with a return to that. As it is, if a website breaks due to having something blocked (eg. the google infection which seems to permeate the modern Internet), then fine. Let it break. I just won't use it.

      And yes, I'm firmly in the NoScript + RequestPolicy "allow something to happen only if explicitly permitted" camp. It's why I have no qualms about sticking with an old version of Firefox (ESR 52.9) on my Windows 7-running games machine. A locked down browser combined with a decent inbound + outbound firewall and AV software means that all these vulnerabilities and security holes which keep getting found and patched simply aren't relevant to me.

    11. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One would think that a field that is written as text, and supposed to be presented as text would take text as input. But no. It's some weird subset of html.

    12. Re:Javascript by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      In most of the cases I simply hit Ctrl+A and paste to a text editor.

    13. Re:Javascript by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is basically why the ad industry is in the huge pit they're in today. You might notice that the amount of sites that beg and whine to turn off the adblocker has increased in the past 1-2 years. Why? Because now even the computer illiterates block ads.

      Ads have always been part of the internet. Pretty much since the first time the masses entered with AOL there were banners. And ads got more and more invasive because they could. They'd pop up, over, under, blare from speakers and go fullscreen video. Why? Because advertisers were used to getting away with it from TV. What would you do? Change the channel?

      What they didn't take into account was that on a computer, the owner of the computer can easily turn off their obnoxious invasion. But that was ok. The ones that could were few and far between. And the illiterates were plentiful enough to keep the ad industry going.

      But apparently not enough people clicked their ads. Even when they tricked people by disguising them as "close" buttons. So ads got more and more invasive, because apparently the ad industry thought that people somehow missed that full screen flashing and honking ad. And at some point the breaking point was reached: The illiterates installed ad blockers.

      To give you an idea what we're talking about: We're talking about the user that dutifully closes 20 error messages when he starts his computer from programs that didn't quite uninstall properly. The user that doesn't care that his i7 is slow as molasses when browsing because of the 99 tracking plugins littering his browser, or that he has a browser real estate of a stamp on his 28" screen due to all the plugin bars that somehow got installed. The ad industry managed to piss off THIS user enough to get off his ass and install an ad blocker.

      And he's not gonna uninstall it. Can you imagine just HOW much you have to piss off someone like this to block your ads? You could promise him a new car to uninstall that ad blocker and he won't uninstall it. That ship has sailed.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In most of the cases I simply hit Ctrl+A and paste to a text editor.

      what do you mean by this? how does that stop ads?

    15. Re: Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wired.com invented the web based ad banner.

    16. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot has always been like that. It was originally a site for nerds/geeks, so using html tags in comments for things like italics, bold, links, quotes, etc I guess seemed natural. Stripping anything that looks like a html tag is a byproduct of that.

    17. Re:Javascript by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      That's how I do it. I use NoScript, and rarely ever see ads. The ads themselves are all being served up from some other site anyway, so even if I allow the scripts coming from the site itself, the ads are still blocked, which is fine by me.

      ^^^THIS. NoScript will block 99% of ads just by killing Javascript.

      I use NoScript and Adblock, and I never see ads. I've forgotten what they look like. So much so, that when I used a friend's PC the other day I was just flabbergasted by all the ads littering the page. "Hmmmm," I thought, "this is ungood."

      A few clicks later I had installed NoScript and Adblock, and peace and tranquility reigned throughout the land again.

      He hasn't stopped thanking me since- "And the pages load so fucking fast dude!!"

      He's now on an absolute crusade to install NoScript and Adblock on every PC he sees, lol.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    18. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^^^^^THIS^^^^^
      Way back when ads were not so annoying (mainly small static graphics) I didn't block them. I didn't start blocking ads until they started to get really annoying. Will I disable my ad-blocker for any web site? NO! I WILL NOT! Ads servers these days are too likely to be spreading malware, spyware and viruses! Also, I consider ads themselves to be malware! If ads start getting past current ad-blockers, new ad blockers will be written in response. In addition, if people can't block ads, using the internet will be too frustrating, and people will only use it when they have to. By going too far and making ads too annoying, advertisers have become self defeating! There is no going back now!!

    19. Re:Javascript by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      This is basically why the ad industry is in the huge pit they're in today. You might notice that the amount of sites that beg and whine to turn off the adblocker has increased in the past 1-2 years. Why? Because now even the computer illiterates block ads.

      I've installed adblockers on several grandma's computers to rejuvenate them. Suddenly the thing runs much better. And ther's nothing like Grandma net to get the word out.

      Regardless, not allowing me into their site because I have ad and script blocking means I still won't see their malware bearing bullshit. So it still means they fail.

      The ad industry managed to piss off THIS user enough to get off his ass and install an ad blocker.

      And he's not gonna uninstall it. Can you imagine just HOW much you have to piss off someone like this to block your ads? You could promise him a new car to uninstall that ad blocker and he won't uninstall it. That ship has sailed.

      Exactly. I've used ad blockers since maybe punch the monkey days. Now? Mainstream. Do not piss off the people that are hard to piss off. Especially with assholes like me that spread the word to them.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    20. Re:Javascript by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I've forgotten what they look like. So much so, that when I used a friend's PC the other day I was just flabbergasted by all the ads littering the page. "Hmmmm," I thought, "this is ungood."

      A few clicks later I had installed NoScript and Adblock, and peace and tranquility reigned throughout the land again.

      He hasn't stopped thanking me since- "And the pages load so fucking fast dude!!"

      He's now on an absolute crusade to install NoScript and Adblock on every PC he sees, lol.

      This! The times I have for one reason or another had to ride the net bareback, I've found it almost unusable. And has anyone wondered why smartphone users are getting more and more bandwidth? not to do anything but allow them to get more ads. I used to blow through my cap regularly until I started tethering a laptop to it. Now I have much un-throttled data to use.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    21. Re:Javascript by Espectr0 · · Score: 1

      i wonder what kind of websites do you visit that still work properly with javascript disabled.

    22. Re:Javascript by ChromeAeonuim · · Score: 1

      Most of them more or less work, and even if they don't have full functionality, it's usually still good enough. It's a trade off: security for mild annoyance. But the nice thing about NoScript is that you can select which sites you want to allow scripts from, so I can selectively allow some things but not others.

    23. Re:Javascript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It selects everything on the page and then you paste it into a text doc and read it.

      Some formatting may be required.

    24. Re:Javascript by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      This isn't for stopping ads but dealing with anti-adblocking measures.

    25. Re:Javascript by alvarogmj · · Score: 1

      I agree with the sentiment that a decade ago the Internet was a safer, nicer, and much less hostile place, especially for newcomers. Being a dad now, i can see how the ads work for kids, it is scary how manipulative they are.

      Reg. NoScript: its use is WAY less annoying than one might expect, people does not browse 1000 sites every day, we tend to browse a few most of the time, and a different one every now and then (example: 80% of my browsing is Innoreader, Ars, and Slashdot, and only Innoreader won't work without javascript). This means that at most, you spend a few days getting it right, then it just gets out of the way.

      Unfortunately, the reality is that you need to know how it works and why is it there, otherwise sites break and you don't know why, and that makes it unusable for most people. I have uMatrix installed, but also keep a Chrome instance for those sites which break and take more than a few clicks to get to work, like government sites, or sites which receive payments and do many redirects behind the scenes. The consequences of a site not working are not always just unreachable content, sometimes you might end up paying twice for the same product only because the first time the cookie was not allowed but the processing still went through :)

  3. What the fuck is a "perceptual ad"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps EXPLAIN THAT first instead of going on about a bunch of meaningless nonsense?

    1. Re: What the fuck is a "perceptual ad"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its an ad blocker designed to understand the content of an ad.
      The problem with these blockers is that they usually continuously block ads without reporting the domain. Upgrades to these blockers will integrate fully with standard ad blocking technology. Users can usually see that an ad is present and selectively display ads that may be of interest. This report is outdated

    2. Re:What the fuck is a "perceptual ad"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uses the 'duck test' algorithm...

  4. They can't defeat hosts files... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: APK Hosts File Engine 3.0++ 64-bit for Linux/BSD h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p

    Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any 1 solution (99% of threats use hostnames vs. IP address most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

    Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" slowing u hosts speed u up 2 ways: Adblocks + Hardcode fav. sites u spend most time @ vs. competition loaded w/ security bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + overheads slowing u (messagepass 'souled-out' to advertisers easily detected & blocked addons + firewall filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploit!

    * ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI 4 Linux/BSD & supports port filters!

    APK

    P.S.=> Protects vs. all speculative execution exploits + scripts/trackers (faster vs. NoScript @ kernelmode level)/ads/DNS request tracking + redirect poisoned or downed DNS/botnets/malware/malcript/email malicious payloads... apk

    1. Re:They can't defeat hosts files... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any article even remotely connectable to host files, and you're there. It's like ants at a picnic. Or the smell of piss in the subway. Always there.

      *whistles* Here, boy! THERE'S A GOOOOOOD DOGGIE!

    2. Re:They can't defeat hosts files... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your shit is weak, dude.

      Only a loser has to spam a site for years to try and sell his weak-ass product that doesn't even work.

  5. Moving the wrong way. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you want to get rid of ads, you shouldn't be looking to completely prevent them from loading because that's an eternal game of cat and mouse. Instead, you should be looking to poison advertisers click-though information. Basically, fooling ads into thinking you have clicked them and loading things in the background (after you have loaded the page excluding the ads) would have a very negative effect on advertisers because it spoils the very thing they keep track of: who clicks-through to a site. If most people provided a completely false click-through and browsing information it would diminish the value of ads entirely.

    Honestly, people are fighting ad networks all wrong.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re: Moving the wrong way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Clicking on ads automatically on behalf of users would be very dangerous. I'm an author of the paper discussed in the article, and we looked at one ad-blocker that actually does this (specifically it clicks on ads to check whether they link to an ad statement page). It turns out that you can fool the ad-blocker into thinking something is an ad, which then causes it to click on an arbitrary link of your choice... You could use this for DDoS purposes, cross site request forgery attacks, etc.

    2. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. Have a type of proxy set up for the ad servers based on their DNS call, that allows the original content in, but tells the ad networks you're based in, say, Nepal. Poison the stream with false information. Pretty soon the ad networks will realize they are ineffective.

      I already blackhole every ad network at the DNS level using a Pi-hole. I add new subscriptions all the time. I also block referers, CSS history, the ability for sites to see anything about my computer or it's OS, software/hardware. I falsify my fingerprint, as it were. Works a treat. I test myself against test sites to see how I'm faring once or twice a month.

    3. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesnt sound like fraud to me. The user has not given you a promise to do anything in particular with your advertisement, therefore they are not misleading you when they click but dont visit.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      LOL. Guys, I think we just found a person whose paycheck depends on advertising dollars. Get a rope.

    5. Re:Moving the wrong way. by epine · · Score: 2

      If most people provided a completely false click-through and browsing information it would diminish the value of ads entirely.

      Your analysis is not even on the right set of train tracks.

      Current compensation formulas might well involve relative conversion rates (I don't follow this closely), but that's merely convention.

      What actually matters is the absolute conversion rate: number of widgets sold, and average selling price. As long as those two quantities are in the black, advertising will remain a going concern.

      (There are a fair number of retail ventures where the price paid depends on your history of arrival. Amazon has tried this in house, but other places astroturf apparently independent outlets and then work to steer customers to the most expensive outlet, at or below willingness to pay. Willingness to pay is measured by having the deepest discount associated with filling out many bullshit forms, poor shipping terms, and generally poor terms in every other respect. Professionals very quickly elect to protect their time and energy by paying more under the general heading of "convenience". Gradually the industry trains consumers to accept their general convenience category, and to only shop within those parameters. This is half the function of advertising, as viewed from the systemic perspective.)

      Bullshitting a lot of click-throughs (with no conversion possible) inflates the cost of delivering electrons (very marginal these days, though enough to make to make Amazon even richer).

      It doesn't fall into hardly anyone's convenience category.

      And it's fundamentally non-verifiable. Because while you fantasize over how this creates difficulties at the other end, all this sophisticated new AI isn't fooled (for long) in the slightest.

    6. Re: Moving the wrong way. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      I'm not suggesting using a perceptual ad recognition for poisoning ad networks but rather the list based method. The entire concept of the perceptual ad recognition is flawed and is even more of a cat-and-mouse game than list based detection. If anything, the perceptual ad recognition should be used by list maintainers to identify new ad new domains to their lists... just not automatically.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    7. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Fraud is not an appropriate way to fight.

      And yet this is exactly what they do when they create new tricks to circumvent ad blockers, make ads that look like download buttons or ignore the Do Not Track flag. As we know, everyone ignore it.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    8. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      What actually matters is the absolute conversion rate: number of widgets sold, and average selling price. As long as those two quantities are in the black, advertising will remain a going concern.

      That is correct. That is because such widgets are seen as being valuable. If millions of people are clicking through then it's going to turn into a liability. Suddenly your advertisement is a call for a self-inflicted DDoS. Electrons are cheap but not free and if you are getting DDoS'd because of an ad you paid for and not getting real traffic then it may just be more trouble than it's worth. Sure big players might be able to withstand the strain but smaller ones will be taken offline and going offline is a surefire way to lose money.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    9. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Fraud? What fraud? I just do what the advertiser wants, their ad gets clicked, the system works!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Go a step further. Exchange the information with all the other instances running the ad blocker and have them ALL click the ad. The company paying for the ad gets charged a HUGE bill for all the clicks, notices zero revenue from it and stops advertising.

      Problem solved for good.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re: Moving the wrong way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ddos? Not really. I ran a shitty little ad network 10 years ago serving up a billion ads a day on a moderate number of mediocre servers as a side job.

      If I cared and it was job one today I could do 100+ billion hits a day and make money even if 99% or more were fake clicks.

    12. Re:Moving the wrong way. by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Instead, you should be looking to poison advertisers click-though information.

      Yep- we should make the advertisers efforts useless by filling their click-through databases with mountains of irrelevant 'data'. If we all clicked away like psychos their analytics would be worthless.

      Unfortunately, the prevalence of malware in ads (and in their target pages) prevent me from doing this (plus I use NoScript and Adblock, so I don't actually see the ads).

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    13. Re:Moving the wrong way. by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Fraud is not an appropriate way to fight.

      Oh yes it is. Ask me how I know.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    14. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Fraud is not an appropriate way to fight.

      Oh yes it is. Ask me how I know.

      Okay, how do you know?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    15. Re: Moving the wrong way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Different AC, but that is still dangerous. If that practice became common-place, then malware would be easier to spread through malvertising (after all regular and ad-blockers click and download it), you could put a bunch of divs where class=ad on a forum or whereever to DDoS, or CSRF, and the list goes on. Then there is the fact that many ad places now use JavaScript to verify things, so the clicker would have to execute that too. You'd have to have a curated list of what ads are actually safe to click to do that and hope there is never a compromise. This this list maintenance would not only never scale, but wouldn't provide any benefit for the user beyond not clicking or loading to offset the risk.

    16. Re:Moving the wrong way. by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Oh yes it is. Ask me how I know.

      Okay, how do you know?

      Because I've used it and it works great.

      I "defraud" cold callers, telephone solicitors, and religious cranks who knock on my door, I "defraud" the people who send bullshit mail offers to "buy my home sight unseen", etc etc. I defraud them all by wasting their time, placing dead-end orders, making never-to-be-kept appointments, etc etc.

      It frustrates them and eventually they go away and don't come back. It may not be "fraud" in the classic sense of the word, but I'm happy to extend it to my activities.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    17. Re:Moving the wrong way. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Oh yes it is. Ask me how I know.

      Okay, how do you know?

      Because I've used it and it works great.

      Oh heck - I do that too. I was hoping you'd have something real juicy to share with us 8^)

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  6. Kill all stupid people = Stop adverts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ads are exclusively viewed and clicked by stupid people. Let's gas them all for a better world, with no ads.
    Make the internet non-commercial again.

  7. If only ad blockers by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    would create and update lists of sites they blocked.

    And you can always manually individually block sites/domains.

    Soon it will really suck if the domain you created has the letters ad in it,

    As opposed to AdBlock which exchanges cash to allow some advertisers to "bypass" built in blocks.

    1. Re:If only ad blockers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have been running a Raspberry Pi with Pi-hole and I never see ads. The Pi-hole blocks the DNS calls for the ad networks, so they never even are called to block them. I don't know how long this method will be effective, but this, coupled with uBlock Origin, Decentraleyes, Privacy Badger, Token Tracker Stripper, and some about:config settings leaves me pretty good to go for the last couple of years. Again, I don't know how long before this becomes defeated. I think the best method is DNS blackholing of ad domains and networks. I look forward to the cold war against the ads, beacons, and trackers.

    2. Re:If only ad blockers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need HFT ad blockers. Ad blockers that buy a few ads, test how they show up on sites, and then use it to create the rules.

  8. Dumb redneck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First adblocking isn't an "eternal game of cat and mouse". Install uBO and BOOOOOOOOM all ads are fuckin gone forever.
    Next you can't "poison" the stats because they are already 99% fake. It's all bots and the ad buyer is just getting scammed. But they're capitalists so fuck them too.
    All you're doing is trashing your own privacy, and running dangerous code, for no benefit.

    Ad selling capitalists: Scammers polluting public spaces with shitty ads.
    Ad buying capitalists: Retarded, but just a "cost of doing business"
    You: Retarded redneck NPC, and hapless victim.

  9. APK only stops people dumber than he is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Retarded children can defeat hosts files. You are just even dumber and so detached from reality that you can't accepts facts. Still waiting on that list that you said your shitware software can produce that blocks all possible hosts from APK-is-a-retard.com since I showed how all your efforts can trivially be circumvented. You can't because like you, your software doesn't work. I even said I would accept a list containing only 1% but you can't even produce that because all you offer is lies.

  10. DDos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just start DDos'ing any and all AD Servers.

  11. Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 2

    The problem I have seen with ad blockers (and admittedly, I have only tried a few, and haven't put a lot of effort into trying to find the best or most useful one) is that they work by preventing the loading of certain parts of web sites. Like, they refuse to load images from a certain domain, or refuse to load and run javascript from a certain domain, or whatever. The important point is that I believe they work by not loading content that they want to block.

    It is my experience that sites can detect this behavior - they can tell when you have loaded all of a page but not the ads, because they can see that your browser only fetched part of the page. They probably also embed javascript in ways that require that it be run and show an ad or else some other javascript notices that this did not happen, and then knows that you did not load the ad. And then they run other javascript that blocks out the content of the site itself because they have detected that you are running an ad blocker.

    I don't know why ad blockers don't then just implement the obvious:

    Load the ad. Load the javascript. Just turn all the pixels that you display for those ads to white, and all the sound to zero volume. The javascript won't know that behind the scenes the APIs that would display images have instead decided to show white pixels. The remote server will still see you fetching all the content and "presenting" it to the user.

    I'm talking about switching ad blocking from a detectable and defeatable "don't show ads" to an undetectable (by the ad displayer) "do everything you would have done up to the last possible moment which is the presentation of the ad image/sound, instead showing nothing".

    This seems so much more foolproof to me. It doesn't have the nice property of reducing your bandwidth usage by not even loading ads but ... I personally don't care much about that. I just don't want to see the ads.

    The only recourse of the advertisers at that point would be to make the content of the ads intrinsic to the content of the site; like the site text renders in javascript that also renders ads, or something. At that point, I don't know what we do to stop ads ... maybe stop allowing javascript?

    In terms of how to detect what is an ad, just let users clock on anything that shows up as an ad image, choose a pop-up "this is an ad", when they select that, white out the image, and add the URL of the ad image to a voting database. Then when fetching images, if enough votes have been cast saying that it's an ad ... treat it as such.

    What are the obvious flaws to this design that I am missing?

    1. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it is far simpler to just disable third-party cookies and disable javascript. If the page does not render, then go somewhere else.

    2. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by markdavis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >" don't know why ad blockers don't then just implement the obvious: Load the ad. Load the javascript. Just turn all the pixels that you display for those ads to white, and all the sound to zero volume. [...]What are the obvious flaws to this design that I am missing?"

      1) Because that still causes the page to load very, very slowly. Try it- the speed difference is almost unbelievable on many sites. Many sites that load and render in 3 seconds suddenly take 6, 10 or even more seconds.

      2) Because it doesn't help prevent tracking and spying.

      3) Because it doesn't reduce bandwidth/date usage.

      4) Because it doesn't reduce memory, CPU, and power/battery usage.

    3. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      > And then they run other Javascript that blocks out the content of the site itself because they have detected that you are running an ad blocker.

      If you are blocking content because someone blocked ads then users will just go elsewhere to get that content.

      Forbes does this bullshit. Guess what, I don't care about Forbes anymore.

      Your broken business model isn't my problem.

    4. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uBlock Origin fixes this. Forbes will load like any other site. Another thing you can do if you use Google, which I try not to do, is view the cached results. Yet another is type in the URL at StartPage and proxy the results.

    5. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because javascript can display things. How do you load the javascript and then choose which side effects of running it to allow, and which not to allow?
      No, far simpler to just not load the parts you don't want and ignore sites that don't load if you don't allow scripts.

    6. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Javascript is Turing complete. If you allow web sites to run code on your computer, you agree to play a game of cat and mouse, and you're the mouse.

    7. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't even have to load the content. They just have to allow the HTTP request and the close the connection before anything comes the other way. It would require a fuckton of server resources to start checking whether every HTTP request was actually fulfilled with the correct number of bytes for the resource requested.

    8. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Forbes does this bullshit. Guess what, I don't care about Forbes anymore.

      Same here. I used to go to Forbes, but with their aggressive "Turn off your ad blocker" shit, I abandoned them. Like you, I don't care about Forbes anymore.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    9. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Forbes does this bullshit. Guess what, I don't care about Forbes anymore.

      Your broken business model isn't my problem.

      Never let this die:

      After demanding that people disable their ad-blocker, Forbes served them up the Angler exploit toolkit https://www.networkworld.com/a...

      The article claims it isn't Forbes fault. Well, kindasorta isn't. But Forbes and all other sites using this ad model share in the blame. Fix it so you aren't serving up computer STD's

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite a lot.

      Blocking ads isn't (just) about stopping the user from seeing adverts. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy to view adverts in exchange for using ad-supported websites if that was all that was going on.

      Loading ads and other third party content enables the pervasive, tracking by megacorps, abusive behaviour by advertisers (remember the loud, unclosable, pop up/pop under ads of yore?) exposes the end user to security threats from third party code, and takes an unknown amount of resources (CPU, memory, bandwidth) that will harm the user's experience and potentially cost them money. A few years ago we had a wave of ads that hijacked the browser to mine bitcoin; again, that's not necessarily a problem if the user makes an informed choice, but misusing someone else's computer resources is a felony if you or I were to do it.

    11. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Wow. Thanks for that link! I'm going to coin a new phrase:

      Practice safe hex -- use an ad blocker.

    12. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Wow. Thanks for that link! I'm going to coin a new phrase:

      Practice safe hex -- use an ad blocker.

      Remember, if they insist on you dropping your adblocker, and you just navigate away, they have lost twice.

      The ad service doesn't get their ads seen, and the site takes a hit on page views.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    13. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by Megane · · Score: 1

      Often I find that if I block another chunk of something, it blocks their blocking detector from loading. After all, web monkeys rarely even have the ability to write good and robust code, they just link in some crap from another web site.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    14. Re:Why aren't adblockers implemented like this? by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 1

      And this is why I don't turn off my adblocker just because a site begs me to. It's very rare for a site to have exclusive content that I really, really want to see.

      If it's a news story there will be other sources. If it's a video....maybe I just won't be able to see it. I'll live.

      If there's malware, I'll avoid it.

  12. NoScript + uBlox Origin by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Between those two I can't remember the last time I saw an ad, and if I do uBlox will generally zap it for me if I point it at it.

    1. Re:NoScript + uBlox Origin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Between those two I can't remember the last time I saw an ad, and if I do uBlox will generally zap it for me if I point it at it.

      If you're using noscript, I but you do remember the last time a page didn't fucking work right.

      You may as well just install nohtml and tell everyone how you never see ads.

    2. Re:NoScript + uBlox Origin by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Just because you can't get it to work doesn't mean it doesn't work. Fix your own shit and stop being such a Negative Nelly.

  13. No Script or uMatrix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kind of hard to load your ads when I block everything but html from the first-party page...

  14. Ads are okay if carefully curated by the website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't mind ads placed by the owners of the website. I will look at them and sometimes click on them.

    What I loathe is the outsourcing of the ads to some other server somewhere. That's where the shit gets in.

    AC

  15. no news here by epine · · Score: 1

    Early generation technologies are often fragile in superficial ways.

    Big whoop.

    The main counterexamples come from startup ventures who define turd polishing as job #1.

    Eventually even the sane do have to polish the turd (in the context of an adversarial arms race) to achieve mass deployment. Ideally, you financed your startup to also succeed at stage Number Two.

  16. to much complexity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the arms race is only possible because browsers are to complex and offer advertisers/attackers way to many work arounds.

    the browser is one of the most complex pieces of software on your machine, and its entire purpose in life is to handle the
    parsing and display of completely untrusted and often outright malicious data. In what world does this sound like a good idea?

    seriously we need to dial it back a dozen notches and go back to a base of data display. The web of today is a shit hole
    of spying, exploiting, tracking, and an orgy or advertising. I care less about the web everyday.

  17. It's not that simple, doesn't work that way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ad JS can check what's on the canvas that it renders to, and send that back to the ad server. So turning it to white won't work. And making it render to a different (invisible) canvas also can be checked for, I think.

    The ultimate fallacy of advertisers is exactly the same as with Digital Restrictions Management: They MUST trust the user's computer to act like the instruction list (JS etc) says. Even though *obviously*, given that it's still the user's computer (unless it's a console or non-rooted smartphone), the user can tell its computer to do whatever he wants. It can never work. Period.

    Which is why you will probably some day see sites,that refuse to display, unless you don't own/control the computer it is supposed to render on. E.g. like banking chip cards do it: By first opening a secure channel to the TPM computer inside your computer (probably via the IME computer's networking capabilities in the CPU), to verify that you have no control of the main computer and that it only executes what the advertiser tells the TPM is OK to execute.
    That was the whole point of the TPM when the criminal Content Mafia cokeheads came up with it to steal our money without working for it, after all.

  18. 5)vulnerability by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Because when another drive-by-download or execute vulnerability pop up, it won't help you to load in background you are as vulnerable as loading in plain sight.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  19. Slight Alteration ? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    FTFA :

    One attack ... slightly altered the AdChoices logo that is commonly used to disclose advertisements to fool the perceptual ad blocker.

    Am I missing something here? A slight visual alteration can defeat the recognition of a ad graphic? Yet we are in an era of face recognition and self-driving perception software - and only waxwork dummies' faces look constantly the same, and I doubt that every road "Stop" sign is pixel-perfect identical.

    1. Re:Slight Alteration ? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      What you're missing is that the technology they tricked isn't production-quality yet. It's still mostly a research project. There's no need to improve the image recognition at this point, because that's not where they're focusing. Once the interesting work is done, that's part of commercialization.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  20. Perceptual Ad Blockers by cstacy · · Score: 1

    I am pretty sure that I've seen Perceptual Ad Blockers on Doctor Who. They're kind of like psychic paper, only in reverse.

  21. Why this is silly. by cshark · · Score: 2

    You know, I've given internet marketers a chance to explain themselves. An opportunity to prove they're not complete morons who not only don't understand their product, but their customer. I've been patient with them as they introduce new and ever more obnoxious and invasive advertising techniques that are heavily lauded, but that don't actually work. I've read their blogs. I've commented on their forums. I've tried to speak reason to power. And now... I'm done.

    As I've explained to these intrepid idiots in the marketing industry for the last decade, people block ads because they're a blight. They're implemented poorly. They often contain malware which largely goes unpoliced, and they diminish the reading experience on pretty much any site they're on. If you're on a website, and the ads don't completely destroy both the credibility and quality of the host site, you're probably on buzzfeed. Nearly everywhere else, you're going to notice this nonsense.

    The war on adblockers is a lost cause. Breaking adblockers is not going to result in higher clickthrough rates. It never has, in the entire time it's been around. If a user LOVES your website, they might whitelist you. Short of that, they'll bounce and get your content from somewhere else. Calling attention to and requesting a modification in the software a user runs is a violation of user rights. Period. Plain and simple. And it raises suspicions about the host site, bringing to the user's mind the other invasive practices a site might be engaged in, and the handling of their personal data in general. If you wouldn't demand to look in someone's underwear drawer when selling them a newspaper, you shouldn't engage in the ongoing harassment of your users in this way. There is no moral difference.

    Asking users who are taking aggressive steps not to see ads will only result in lower documented clickthrough rates. It'll result in more bounce traffic. It'll result in fewer people showing an interest in your site, and less exposure over social media. Mind you, a lot of people that have never clicked on an ad in their lives think nothing of sharing your article with their network of followers. If you track the engagement numbers on sites that behave in this way, you'll see a downward trend overall in their engagement numbers -- resulting, ironically, in fewer ad impressions, and fewer clicks.

    I don't know if there's anything to do about it. If the industry wants to sit there and gnaw off its own leg, they're welcome to do it. And I'm sure they will. Like I said in the beginning of this rant, they're not exactly the brightest bulbs to begin with.

    --

    This signature has Super Cow Powers

    1. Re:Why this is silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work at a decent sized hosting company where a frighteningly large number of our customers are "internet marketers".
      They are all, without exception, arrogant dumbfucks.
      I remember one in particular who was hounding us to determine why they weren't seeing the traffic they expected. They knew exactly how much traffic should be coming into their network... because they'd just payed for it (obviously from some Russian botnet based on the traffic they were getting).
      We laughed at them and told them we can't guarantee people will connect to your servers at any particular rate, and no, we're not seeing any networking issues. They were shocked that some other con-artist might be lying to them about the traffic they can deliver.
      What a lot of these customers seem to be doing is hosting advertisements for companies dumb enough to give them money, then paying (less I assume) for fake connections to their own ads.

    2. Re:Why this is silly. by Solandri · · Score: 1

      The war on adblockers is a lost cause. Breaking adblockers is not going to result in higher clickthrough rates. It never has, in the entire time it's been around.

      Two hunters are out in the woods when they run across a huge grizzly bear which rears up ready to charge them. One hunter stoops down and starts tying his shoelaces. The other hunter says "What are you doing? We have to get away from the bear!" The first hunter says "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you."

      That's the situation the people trying to defeat ad blockers are in. They don't have to completely defeat the ad blockers; they just have to do a better job of it than anyone else in order to attract advertising business. So even if the click-through rate is down for the industry overall, if your anti-ad-blocker company's click-through rate is down less than everyone else, it's still a win for you.

      That's the inherent flaw in ad blockers right now. They all try to block the ad, which just results in the advertiser trying to find a way to get around the block. To really be effective, you have to ask yourself why the advertiser is trying to show you the ad, then thwart that. Advertisers show you ads because the money they make from the few click-throughs is greater than the cost of the ad. So instead of trying to block ads, we should be trying to drive up the cost of showing ads. Fake impressions (loads ad but doesn't show it), fake click-throughs, and referral replacement (each family sets themselves up as a referrer and their computer auto-inserts their own referral code). That'll reduce the the key figure driving the ads - sales per impression / click-through / referral. Making ads appear to not be cost-effective anymore.

    3. Re:Why this is silly. by cshark · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. Reminds me of Robert X. Cringely's strategy for defeating phishing. Much the same idea. I'm all for it.

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    4. Re:Why this is silly. by Megane · · Score: 1

      An opportunity to prove they're not complete morons who not only don't understand their product, but their customer.

      The first rule to understanding your customer is to correctly identify your customer. The "customer" is not the one viewing the ad, nor the one who inserts some includes in their web site so that the ad can be displayed in exchange for pennies. The customer is the one who is paying you money, the one who created and paid for the ad to be shoved in front of eyeballs. The companies that shove the ads around have identified their customer, and their product. The product is YOU. (everywhere, not just in Soviet Russia)

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  22. Gentlemen, start your engines by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Use NoScript. NoScript will kill 99% of ads just by stopping Javascript. If they insist on having Javascript enabled then I'll abandon their site and go elsewhere.

    If they force unavoidable ads on us, we'll all just start clicking away like mad motherfuckers and bury them in useless, irrelevant clicks. I'll click on every fucking ad I see and never buy anything.

    I do the same thing (more or less) with cold callers who want to sell me duct cleaning or tree trimming services over the phone. I say, sure, come on out- then I give them a bogus address.

    If they somehow make it to my door (which occasionally happens) I just give them a blank look and tell 'em, "Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about." (Plus, as I point out to them, we have no trees on our property, so why in the world would I make an appointment for a tree trimming service? heh heh heh)

    My hope is that making them respond to the false positives will waste enough of their time and gas and money that they'll eventually sour on the idea, and it may just force them to reconsider if cold calling is really worth it. Three or four wasted trips a day starts to add up for a business that depends on booking valid (i.e. paying) appointments.

    I know I'm just one guy....but just imagine the result if we all did that.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  23. Well, by no-body · · Score: 1

    Isn't this whole throwing unwanted ads in your face against your will and intention abusive?
    Who are the goon-robots programming this shit and the idiots trying to make a buck with this got nothing better to do?
    Popup in your face - please subscribe - and have to act upon plugging an email address like "Ihate..." in..
    The behavior causing this should be penalized with mandatory pot smoking and we will see progress happening very soon..

  24. Its not an ad blocker, its a virus blocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i didnt used to bother blocking ads.

    Ads didnt used to have malware in them.

    Clean up your yard & maybe some day you;ll start building trust again.

  25. Re:But they didn't defeat the NAZI PARTY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That wasn't offtopic, you stupid cunt! Defeating ad blockers and defeating fascism are very closely related. The same tech can be used for both, you fucking moron! Go and eat shit! Fuck off!

  26. IMPERSONATING ME again? apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IMPERSONATING ME again? I catch you when you do as you have now. Hosts stop portsmash https://it.slashdot.org/commen... but not Spectre/Meltdown - so cut your crap - NOTHING "stops everything" but hosts do MORE for LESS & natively vs. other 'solutions' full of security issues & slowdown (DNS/Antivirus) OR that are crippled by default (adblock) + are EASILY DETECTED & BLOCKED by webmasters (all browser addons) with their messagepass overheads & resource hogging vs. hosts greater efficiency in kernelmode (vs. slower usermode) giving users more SPEED/SECURITY/RELIABILITY & ANONYMITY online w/ proof https://search.slashdot.org/co... .

    APK

    P.S.=> Grow up... apk

  27. Hosts work vs. threats w/ proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts work vs. threats w/ proof https://search.slashdot.org/co... & DGA tracker lists exist - & I use them!

    THERE'S YOUR PROOF!

    They generate random names galore & once those appear I block them in hosts too - you lose.

    APK

    P.S.=> You ALWAYS lose vs. me, lol... apk

    1. Re:Hosts work vs. threats w/ proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, shit for brains. Now show me the list or can't you because your retardware doesn't work. You won't because you can't.

  28. Best way to block ads/threats/trackers etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux/BSD h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p

    Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any 1 solution (99% of threats use hostnames vs. IP address most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

    Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" slowing u hosts speed u up 2 ways: Adblocks + Hardcode fav. sites u spend most time @ vs. competition loaded w/ security bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + overheads slowing u (messagepass 'souled-out' to advertisers easily detected & blocked addons + firewall filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploit!

    * ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI 4 Linux/BSD!

    (Better vs. Windows model)

    APK

    P.S.=> Protects vs. scripts/trackers (faster vs. NoScript @ kernelmode level vs. 3rd party script)/ads/DNS request tracking + redirect poisoned or downed DNS/botnets/malware downloads/malcript/email malicious payloads... apk

  29. Security pros etc. QUOTED on hosts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "classic Windows hosts trick to block the Coinhive or Crypto-Loot domains" - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/a-new-player-joins-coinhive-on-the-browser-cryptojacking-scene/ - BLEEPING COMPUTER

    ZD NET http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-use-a-hosts-file-to-improve-your-internet-experience/ "Hosts files really shine by letting you block ads, spyware sites, malware sites, & tracking sites"

    SANS ("A related approach to the DNS issue is to create a hosts file on each system that sends requests for spyware to some place else" hosts by myself & RAMU right @ START of "malware explosion" mid 2005 on) https://isc.sans.edu/forums/di...

    Aryeh Goretsky/ESET/NOD32: hosts = good security https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7442373&amp.cid=49747129/

    Oliver Day (SYMANTEC/SECURITYFOCUS) http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491/

    Spybot S&D uses hosts.

    APK

    P.S.=> Malwarebytes' hpHosts hosts & RECOMMENDS my program forum.hosts-file.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4290

  30. Hosts efficacy recently vs. threats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It's working: Neville... it's working!" See subject & results from the past 2-3 months https://it.slashdot.org/commen... https://it.slashdot.org/commen... & https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... https://it.slashdot.org/commen... https://search.slashdot.org/co... https://it.slashdot.org/commen... that's only recently while I've been on Linux (few months now only) & 100's of times vs. MANY other botnets/malwares etc. in the past circa 2006-early 2018 while I was on Windows: CONCRETE VISIBLE UNDENIABLE REALITY (see those links as proof).

    P.S.=> ... & that's ONLY what /. reported on (there are FAR more)... apk

  31. Registered /.ers reviews #1/5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your software is just fine - well written, functional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine by mmell February 17, 2017

    Your premise that hostfiles are a good way to deal with advertising and malvertising is quite valid - by JazzLad April 20, 2016

    his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant August 10 2015

    his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg September 25 2015

    I like your host file system by Karmashock September 09 2015

    that APK guy, I use his host file by rogoshen1 Tuesday March 03, 2015

    I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017

    * For the Win32/64 model...

    APK

    P.S.=> Linux model's faster/more efficient/better MERGE feature too - More coming... apk

  32. Registered /.ers reviews #2/5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apk has the answer for that - really... kill automatic updates by adding a hosts file entry setting updates.steam.com or whatever to 127.0.0.1. You have to find the right hostname for each software you want to block updates on by raymorris (2726007) on Friday July 06, 2018

    APK your posts on this and the hosts file posts, and more, have never been in error and/or bad advice by BlueStrat (756137) on Wednesday June 21, 2017

    I support APK's stand on the hosts file and can't see why it's not used more than it is. My hosts file is 144247 lines long (4,332 Kb) it & a firewall serves me very well - by Trax3001BBS (2368736)

    ABP is insufficient as a solid hosts file does everything APK reminds us about fast turtle September 17 2013

    You need APK's hosts file - by Teun (17872) on Wednesday August 06, 2014

    * For the Win32/64 model...

    APK

    P.S.=> Linux model's faster/more efficient + BETTER merge feature - More coming... apk

  33. Registered /.ers reviews #3/5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    APK is totally right on this count. Adblock Plus on Firefox mobile is a dog on older, or lower end, phones. A hostfile based adblocker makes for a much better experience in this context. Of course, your phone has to be rooted, which isn't the case with Firefox + adblock." - by chihowa on Saturday May 16, 2015

    APK solution STILL relevant Thud457 June 11 2015

    In a footnote, I would like to note that I find your hosts file admirable - by vel-ex-tech (4337079) on Tuesday November 24, 2015

    APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment - by Culture20 on Thursday November 17

    you're right about hosts files - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26

    APK, I know people give you a lot of shit regarding hosts, but please don't ever stop - by nasredin (958927) on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:34PM

    * For the Win32/64 model...

    APK

    P.S.=> Linux model's faster/more efficient + BETTER merge feature - More coming... apk

  34. Registered /.ers reviews #4/5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works. - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015

    get around to 'installing' a hosts file list, not sure which one, likely the one from someonewhocares.org. If it works as well as what I used for a while about ten years ago, I'll be happy. And grateful to APK for the lesson and the reminder. - by kermidge (2221646) on Wednesday March 27

    I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster. - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17

    dammit MS, you proved APK right about something by lgw

    * For the Win32/64 model...

    APK

    P.S.=> Linux model's faster/more efficient + BETTER merge feature - More coming... apk

  35. Registered /.ers reviews #5/5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (APK) is still right a hosts file really does work. It even blocked a some of the video ads that were inserted into a stream OrangeTide February 10 2016

    the Host File Engine performs exactly as promised - by mmell (832646) on Thursday February 16, 2017

    I do use APK's host file on all my systems at home by OrangeTide December 01 2017

    I've never tried to belittle (APK's work), I've flat out said it's good - by BronsCon (927697) on Thursday February 11, 2016 @06:48PM (#51491263)

    (Toss on 100,000++ users worldwide too!)

    * For the Win32/64 model...

    APK

    P.S.=> Linux model's faster/more efficient + BETTER merge feature... apk

  36. Even CHINA copied me (vs. DNS down/redirected) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who did it 1st: China or me? I did - dates are my proof https://theregister.co.uk/2017... w/ the FACT China rampantly STEALS U.S. Intellectual properties & military secrets!

    * IMITATION truly IS the SINCEREST FORM of FLATTERY!!!

    (... & proves hosts work vs. DNS faults in tracking you via dns request logs (since you avoid it & resolve FASTER locally using hosts) + DNS being downed OR Kaminsky REDIRECT security flaw misdirected poisoned (or vs. DNSChanger))

    APK

    P.S.=> Let me tell you ALL 1 thing: It's NOT EASY being "World-Class" like me (lol - 100,000++ users prove it for me) - enjoy the fruits of my labors for FREE + going FASTER/SAFER/MORE RELIABLY online (w/ a bit more anonymity too via my program)... apk

  37. Obgliatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All Slashdotters should be able to Pi-Hole their network. Combined with client side tools the effect is amazing. Over 15% of the requests on my network are denied now.

    Network-wide ad blocking via your own Linux hardware. No client-side software required.

    https://www.pi-hole.net

    I've been running this for a year or so now, and I looked at the regular unfiltered internet on a public terminal the other day and was aghast. That shit is crazy. No wonder people complain about ads! haha

  38. LOL, time to shoot you down again... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & TAKE YOUR PICK (of many DGA tracker lists) https://www.bing.com/search?FO...

    * You LOSE...

    APK

    P.S.=> It's ALL you KNOW HOW TO DO vs. me (especially ZIP https://developers.slashdot.or... , lol)... apk

    1. Re:LOL, time to shoot you down again... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried some of those links and none of them created a list of all hosts in the APK-is-a-retard.com domain also learn to use a search engine that isn't built for retards by retards. Besides you were the one that claimed that your software gets them so come on prove it you retarded bitch. Post that list to back up your bullshit claims I tried to verify them but couldn't and don't have to you do. I have already proved how simple it is to circumvent all your childish efforts now prove me wrong your retarded little bitch, but you won't because you can't. You just keep trying to deflect from your unending world class failure.

  39. Retard APK lies some more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    APK can't provide any actual evidence that the Chinese copied him so instead he keeps repeating his lie. He has even admitted that he doesn't have any evidence but thinks that if he repeats it enough that it might be true this time.

    APK is world class, a world class loser. Real world class people don't live in a house that their parents sold to them for $1 with a roommate at 54 after living in the basement for years. They also don't spam about their ineffective software on slashdot.

  40. Quote the Rolling Stones, lol... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: "Time is on MY side (yes it is)" My doing hardcoded favorites @ TOP of hosts in my program LONG pre-dates China imitating me.

    * Period - FACTS are facts...

    APK

    P.S.=> You're the BIGGEST LOSER, the "Champion" (I won't try compete w/ you there) - why? You HIDE from me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like the TRUE LOSER CHAMPION (lmao) you are - so 'brave' & being a DO-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" you are STALKING me (always losing to me though - you truly ARE the CHAMPION of LOSERS - hahahaha)... apk

  41. More lies from APK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    APK doesn't understand what those links actually mean, time to tear them apart
    1. A pop computer site with an article written by a tech journalist, not a security expert. Even at that it is the last suggested solutions with other superior ones mentioned earlier and stated as such.
    2. Another pop computer site but this time of lower quality written by someone who has no actual security knowledge.
    3. An open forum where anyone can post and their credentials cannot be verified. It is also only mentioned as an also ran long after better solutions.
    4. A post made by APK, who is a proven liar, where the statement cannot be independently corroborated.
    5. An article where the author goes on about how blacklists are shit and states that hosts when used as a blacklist is shit.
    6. Spybot S&D is program that is more effective and does more than all of APK's efforts.
    7.His work is neither hosted at malwarebytes or at hphosts, it is actually at a site registered to someone else in a different country.

  42. I've USED DGA tracker data before... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Pity you aren't intelligent enough to find ones that WORK as I have & on PortSmash/Meltdown/Spectre? Read on... lol!

    * My program doesn't get DGA tracker data automatically - you have to manually MERGE their data in (easy to do, especially in the Linux model (better merge vs. Win32/64 ones)).

    APK

    P.S.=> The VERY FACT that Domain Generation Algorithm utilizing botnet trackers EXIST (& they do no questions asked & I've used them vs. DGA botnets before) is enough to PROVE hosts can block even dynamically generated KNOWN BAD hostnames/domainnames (like any other malware type - & from a debate I'm having here https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... ?

    POSSIBLY even ALL FORMS of Intel CPU speculative execution attacks (I knew it could portsmash, but Spectre/Meltdown I wasn't sure of - my opponent (who's actually HELPING ME there) says it can on the same grounds hosts can blockout portsmash using malwares (works out GREAT for me IF he is right))... apk

    1. Re:I've USED DGA tracker data before... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your retarded ass said to pick one off that search result list you provided. I clicked on all of the ones on the first page and got nothing that works. I tried to get a list using your shit and it failed so now you need prove that it works, you always did but never do. You won't because you can't. I stated a fact and proved it, you continue to fail to rebut it, this means you lost. However you are just too dumb to realize it.

  43. You attack? I DESTROY (w/ proof)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You attack? I DESTROY (w/ proof) - e.g. https://developers.slashdot.or...

    LOL - best part?

    YOU ADMIT YOU HAVE A registered 'lusr' account & yet you HIDE from me by AC posts + DOWNMOD BOMB my posts that blow you away (see 1st link above, lol) https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

    APK

    P.S.=> I must THANK-you for being SO stupid & making me look GOOD + yourself like the BLOWHARD BULLSHIT ARTIST you are (all talk, no substance)... apk

  44. Results & registered /.ers DISAGREE w/ u... ap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & EVIDENCE to blow you & "your kind" (chattering "ne'er-do-well" do nothings) away https://search.slashdot.org/co...

    * You're the WEAK one with no skills to produce something of VALUE others LIKE/USE/PRAISE as I do, lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> The PRICE of your WASTED life is showing EVERYONE here you have to HIDE from me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts as you STALK me (obviously because you're still "butthurt" from my TEARING YOUR ASS UP many times, lol)... apk

  45. It's not news in ML by Visarga · · Score: 1

    The problem of adversarial images has been studied since 2013. There are over 1500 papers citing the original paper. https://scholar.google.ro/scho...

    1. Re:It's not news in ML by Visarga · · Score: 1

      Off topic, but the same idea, of adversarial images, has been turned into a kind of imagination machine in 2014 by Ian Goodfellow (Generative Adversarial Networks - GANs). https://scholar.google.ro/scho... . (5600 papers!) They train two neural nets engaged in a game of forgery and forgery detection. The generator net takes in a random noise vector and creates an image. The discriminator network takes in the fake image, other times real images, and has to say which is which. This makes the discriminator learn about images, and using backprop, it trains the generator to generate better fakes. In the end it is possible to generate very realistic original images such as these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  46. Retard APK proves he is a world class loser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Retard APK continues to try to dodge criticism and fails to address it. I guess he likes conceding and showing everyone that he really is a world class loser. Like the failure he is, he can't produce any real evidence to back up his claims and only offers wild ass speculation.

  47. LOL! You PROVE who's "retarded" then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL! You PROVE who's "retarded" then if you can't use search results to find a DGA tracking list of 100's shown.

    They clearly exist but you can't find one - lol - try another search engine - one "less advanced" for your FEEBLE skills perhaps (perhaps using BING is too advanced for your "delicate condition", lol).

    APK

    P.S.=> DGA trackers clearly exist & you're unable to find one you can use out of all BING's results? Come on - helpless Henry, you need to learn how to use search engine results (& you call ME 'retarded'?) LOL... apk

  48. Hey retard: Answer a simple question... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Answer a simple question RETARD: Who did hosts hardcodes 1st - CHINA or me https://theregister.co.uk/2017...

    * ANSWER THAT...

    APK

    P.S.=> You'll EVADE THAT to no end as always & yes I did it 1st - NOT china... apk

  49. Retard APK dodges some more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one was questioning who did it first, only that the chines copied you. You are the retard who fails to comprehend the difference and are the retard who fails to provide any real evidence to support your claim. That feature is simplistic, trivial and obvious so it is more likely that they independently came up with it. You are the one making the claim that you were copied now provide some fucking evidence you retarded bitch.

  50. Re:Ads are okay if carefully curated by the websit by Megane · · Score: 1

    This. Because the outsourced ads are generally horrible and annoying. But very few places bother to run their own ad server anymore, since you have to make an effort to get the ads from somewhere.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }