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Food Taste 'Not Protected By Copyright,' EU Court Rules (bbc.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from the BBC: The taste of a food cannot be protected by copyright, the EU's highest legal authority has ruled in a case involving a Dutch cheese. The European Court of Justice said the taste of food was too "subjective and variable" for it to meet the requirements for copyright protection. The court was asked to rule in the case of a spreadable cream cheese and herb dip, Heksenkaas, produced by Levola. Levola argued another cheese, Witte Wievenkaas, infringed its copyright. The firm claimed that Heksenkaas was a work protected by copyright; it asked the Dutch courts to insist Smilde, the producers of Witte Wievenkaas, cease the production and sale of its cheese. The Court of Justice of the European Union was asked by Netherlands' court of appeal to rule on whether the taste of a food could be protected under the Copyright Directive. In order to quality for copyright, the taste of food must be capable of being classified as a "work" and has to meet two criteria: That it was an original intellectual creation; That there was an "expression" of that creation that makes it "identifiable with sufficient precision and objectivity."

The court found that "the taste of a food product cannot be identified with precision and objectivity." It said it was "identified essentially on the basis of taste sensations and experiences, which are subjective and variable," citing age, food preferences and consumption habits as examples which could influence the taster.

18 of 107 comments (clear)

  1. Dumbasses should have used Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The dumbasses should have used patents instead of copyrights. They could have easily patented the process used to make the cheese (process patent), the mechanical properties of the cheese (utility patent), and the appearance of the cheese (design patent), and sued in the Southern District of Texas for 49 Billion dollars in real and imagined damages.

    1. Re:Dumbasses should have used Patents by sh00z · · Score: 2

      Actually, Trademarks would have been more appropriate. Patents expire, Trademarks can be protected indefinitely.

    2. Re:Dumbasses should have used Patents by mcvos · · Score: 2

      Maybe they could also argue that the name infringes. Witte Wieven are ghostly witches. Heksen are witches. These are honestly the only two Dutch cheeses I know that have supernatural creatures in their name (though I don't claim to know all). If they're also very similar in content, it's rather obvious it's an intentional copy.

  2. unlike music? by AarghVark · · Score: 5, Interesting
    > citing age, food preferences and consumption habits as examples which could influence the taster.

    So totally unlike music? Wonder what sort of precedent this interpretation may be setting.

    1. Re: unlike music? by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      So totally unlike music?

      Totally.

    2. Re:unlike music? by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 2

      There is a difference between taste and music. Music is more comparable to the composition of the food (which can be objectively determined), whereas taste is more comparable to the enjoyment of music. The enjoyment of music cannot be copyrighted (yet).

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    3. Re:unlike music? by pr0t0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's kind of interesting when you zoom out a little and think of copyright protections as they apply to the senses. The scent of a perfume has long been ruled as something not protected. Taste, as this rule shows, has also been long considered as not protected. Sound though, whether as intricate as a song, or as simple as the old "Sosumi" of early Macs, has always been protected. Almost everything visual can be copyright protected. The Nike "Swoosh" for example is a pretty simple shape, but good luck using a similar one in any context.

      Subjectivity in taste and smell appear to be the largest contributor to the disparity, although I would argue it would be very difficult to prove sight and sound are any less subjective. The true experience of sensory input of someone other than yourself can never be fully understood.

      Why is that a cheese, taking years to craft and refine into a product for which the producer is happy in terms of recipe and methodology, is any less protected than a simple song?

      Not that I'm arguing for cheese protection or cheese rights. I just think it's an interesting thought-exercise that some forms of sensory input have more legal protections than others.

      --
      I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    4. Re:unlike music? by pr0t0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Going a bit further, and to the absurd, can you imagine what it would be like if we treated foods the way we treat music?

      No, you cannot give the cheese to someone else. You didn't buy the cheese, you just bought a license to eat it. Sorry, placing it on a cracker does not constitute significant alteration under fair use. If you want to serve the cheese to your patrons, you'll have to pay a licensing fee similar to ASCAP, and the person who came up with the recipe will also need to be paid royalties. Oh, so you did share the cheese? We will file suit, and since we cannot determine which particular cheese you shared, the damages we seek will be based on all the food in your house.

      --
      I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    5. Re:unlike music? by H3lldr0p · · Score: 2

      Like someone already said above, had they gone after process, ingredients and quantities, and those sort of quantifiable things, they may have done better.

      Probably not. What you just described is a recipe. And save for specific versions of them, they cannot be the subject of a copyright claim. At best they get trade secret protection and that's about it.

      It really was nothing but a waste of court's time for this to have happened. They were grasping at straws for anything to have happened.

    6. Re: unlike music? by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Funny

      That sounds like an unlicensed derivative work!

    7. Re:unlike music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      . Almost everything visual can be copyright protected. The Nike "Swoosh" for example is a pretty simple shape, but good luck using a similar one in any context.

      Yeah, no. The Nike swoosh is *not* protected by copyright, but by trademark law. Trademark, copyright and patents. Learn them, learn the difference, and punch everyone using the phrase "intellectual property".

  3. The problem isn't precision. by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I bet a food chemist can do a pretty good job of telling you why a food tastes the way it does. Besides the basic taste components of sweet, salty, bitter, sour, and umami, the perceived flavor of food is primarily carried by volatile chemicals that can be isolated by chromatography. The remaining psychophysical element is texture, which can be mechanically analyzed.

    Sure, there may be subtle elements that are beyond the state of science at present to characterize, but insofar as elements that can be precisely characterized and are unique, there is just as much fundamental justification for copyrighting them as there is for copyrighting story or melody elements.

    The real problem is that we don't customarily copyrighted tastes. Doing so would introduce a change in the way people expect things to work we're not ready for that change.

    Property is a social construct if anything is. If you were the last person on Earth, it would be meaningless to worry whether it was morally right to break into a house or circumvent the DRM on a book. When politicians created the notion of "intellectual property" around two to three centuries ago, they were intentionally engineering a change in their society. That change isn't as well integrated in our culture as personal possession or real estate, which have been part of our culture since preliterate times.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:The problem isn't precision. by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 3

      When politicians created the notion of "intellectual property" around two to three centuries ago, they were intentionally engineering a change in their society.

      For the ostensible purpose of advancing the arts and sciences.

      Since forbidding people to create works using a cartoon mouse from 90 years ago isn't really doing that, we might need to revisit this stuff ...

    2. Re:The problem isn't precision. by dryeo · · Score: 2

      Actually, to give the full title,

      An Act for the Encouragement of Learning, by Vesting the Copies of Printed Books in the Authors or Purchasers of such Copies, during the Times therein mentioned.

      You're thinking of the American copy 80 years later, though at the time, the arts and sciences covered most learning

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  4. Re:If it was that easy... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

    But part of the appeal of Red Bull is being seen with the can in your hand. Why do you think Red Bull spends so much money sponsoring stunt airplane races, extreme sports, and so on? It's because that gives you the image of identifying with those activities when you carry the can around.

    Being seen with an off-brand knockoff just identifies you as a Grandpa who buys bulk no-name products and drives an old people car.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  5. No. Description, presentation can be by raymorris · · Score: 2

    The recipe for a McDonald's Quarter Pounder with Cheese is:

    quarter pound of beef
    Cheese
    mustard and ketchup ("special sauce")
    onion
    pickles

    That's either true or false. The recipe itself, the list of ingredients and their amounts, are facts. There is no copy right on facts.

    In a well-known commercial, the ingredients are sung in a certain order to a certain tune. That presentation of the recipe is an artistic expression rather than a fact. There is a copyright on that.

    If a recipe book has a paragraph describing the food or the cooking process in prose, that prose description may be copyright eligible. The factual list of which ingredients are used is not protectable.

  6. Chickens ... by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... have a lock on all food taste IP.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  7. Taste isn't in the food, it's in your brain by maiden_taiwan · · Score: 2

    Taste is a perception, an experience involving food and a brain. It's not simply built into the food. You can easily manipulate how things taste to a person just by changing the context. For example, if you tell people that the same piece of meat is or isn't humanely farmed, it tastes different.