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Google Accused of 'Trust Demolition' Over Health App (bbc.com)

A privacy expert is criticizing Google for taking over a controversial health app developed by AI firm DeepMind. The app in question -- Streams -- was first used to send alerts in a London hospital but hit headlines for gathering data on 1.6 million patients without informing them. DeepMind now wants the app to become an AI assistant for nurses and doctors around the world. BBC reports: One expert described the move as "trust demolition." Lawyer and privacy expert Julia Powles, who has closely followed the development of Streams, responded on Twitter: "DeepMind repeatedly, unconditionally promised to 'never connect people's intimate, identifiable health data to Google.' Now it's announced... exactly that. This isn't transparency, it's trust demolition," she added.

60 comments

  1. Trust by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Funny

    In Google We Trust. It is on all new dollars.

    1. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No thanks Google. I wouldn't share a single bit of info on me or my friends with them.

    2. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many? We won the right for privacy and I cannot imagine what kind of info they are sharing around on us. Threir trust is irreparably broken.

    3. Re:Trust by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Too bad. Your health care provider already shared it with them.

    4. Re:Trust by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      When did you win the right for privacy? I must have missed that.

    5. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This highlights why regardless of the legal merits it's an absolute sham that Google believes it's okay to avoid (and in the cases where it's been fined, evade) tax.

      It won't pay it, but it's willing to take the benefits of tax payer accrued, funded and owned data, then profit off it globally?

      It'd be a little less galling if Google helped pay for the NHS to the degree it's supposed to, but to refuse to contribute to it, to take the data and make a commercial application off it, and to then also try and sell that globally off the back of a UK tax payer funded and owned asset when it doesn't even remotely pay it's fair share of tax?

      Fuck off, hopefully this'll be classed as a GDPR breach and they can finally be forced to pay what they owe one way or another.

    6. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Google We Trust. It is on all new dollars.

      In EVIL We Trust.

      FTFY

    7. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did you win the right for privacy? I must have missed that.

      1776, ratified in 1791.

      A bit before your time, most likely.

    8. Re:Trust by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Naaa, just another false God. We already have more than enough of them.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    9. Re: Trust by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I like how your "citation" never once mentions the word "privacy". Very droll.

    10. Re:Trust by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      Because we are talking about Health data.

      The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy, Security, and Breach Notification Rules are the main Federal laws that protect your health information. The Privacy Rule gives you rights with respect to your health information.Mar 26, 2018

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    11. Re:Trust by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "No thanks Google. I wouldn't share a single bit of info on me or my friends with them."

      So you don't have neither an Android nor IOS phone.
      You must be one of those elusive 2 Windows phone users.

    12. Re: Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how your "citation" never once mentions the word "privacy". Very droll.

      The link is to one "FAQ: Basic facts about the Bill of Rights".

      So, you have no idea what the "Bill of Rights" is?

      Nor how it pertains to privacy rights?

      Jesus H. Mother Fucking Christ, was elementary school the best decade of your worthless life, you brainless shithead?!?

      Sometimes it's best to shut the fuck up and let everyone just think you might be an ignorant jackass, rather than open your pie-hole and remove all doubt.

    13. Re:Trust by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      maybe they're still using blackberries?

    14. Re: Trust by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      It's always entertaining to see insults being flung around by morons who can't even figure out how to link to a citation. If we were offline I suspect you'd be pointing to a phone book while flinging faeces.

    15. Re: Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mock WP users all u want but at least they werenâ(TM)t having their entire life autopsied by google

    16. Re: Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Different AC here. Are you digging in with this guy because you care about the actual content and intent of the Bill of Rights? Or are you just deflecting from having to defend Googles indefensible practices?

    17. Re: Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DeepMind was scraping the UK's NHS medical records. Not sure what the law says about that. All the same, why did the NHS management give DeepMind unrestricted access to their patients' medical records without their explicit informed consent? How does anything like that get past a research ethics board?

    18. Re: Trust by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I got a laugh out of the fact that he's trying to cite the bill of rights even though he clearly has no clue what it says or means ... and that he truly believes there's some all-encompassing "right to privacy".

      Google's shitty conduct is an entirely separate matter. I've started down the road of trying to eliminate as many of their products from my life as possible, but it's a slow slog.

    19. Re: Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a retard. The bill of rights includes being 'secure in your papers'... from the government ONLY. Some sort of privacy protection probably should be in the Constitution, but it isn't and you being too dumb to read and comprehend it doesn't just magically make it so.

    20. Re: Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good deal. I'm in the same boat. Google photos is the one I'm struggling with now.

  2. Well, you CAN trust Google - to do evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even Microsoft at its Gates/Ballmer worst was only about market domination.

    Google has shown they're about ripping your privacy apart and selling it to anyone and everyone, and they sure look like they play political domination too.

    All the while Google is openly selling out to totalitarian governments.

    Google doesn't merely DO evil, Google IS evil.

  3. is it time to die now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So now Google will know the intimate health status of millions for marketing purposes..

  4. Trust Demolition ? Naah, Trust Confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As in you should've trusted your instincts
    when your gut told you that this could happen,
    just like your mind foresaw that it would happen,
    and now those feelings have become fact,
    when it in fact did happen.

    Huray for boobies !

  5. Which is worse? by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Them having some of your health records or them buying access to your MasterCard transactions? And why are you using Android when they keep having "oopsies" where Google services don't honor the privacy controls and keep sending data? And please tell me you're not pissing and moaning about them datamining your "free" email.

    Fact of life, folks: you can't make a deal with the devil and not come out burned and stinking of sulfur.

  6. Would you still complain if it saved your life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a thought - would you complain if this system found something life threatening with you that nobody else did, and it ended up saving your life or at least giving you a longer/better quality of life?

    Kneejerk reactions will cost us all.

  7. Google and Trust oxymoron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google and trust will never work.

  8. Just like Facebook by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 2

    Just like Facebook when it said it wouldn't take any user data from WhatsApp when it bought that company. These companies thrive on user data and aren't going to pass up a chance to get more if they can no matter what they've said before.

    1. Re:Just like Facebook by LostMonk · · Score: 1

      The difference, perhaps, is no one believed Facebook's statement for a second.

    2. Re: Just like Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be young. Lesson learned?

    3. Re:Just like Facebook by wiretrip · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I am conviced that the FB app sees WhatsApp conversations too; via the 'app family' facility in iOS and data sharing in Android. After all, they only state encrypted end-to-end, the 'ends' are plaintext.

  9. Hysterical by jbmartin6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's nothing in the story about sharing data, just the technology. DeepMind said "Patient data remains under our NHS partners' strict control, and all decisions about its use will continue to lie with them. The move to Google does not affect this." The knee-jerk hysteria of privacy nuts is sadly counterproductive, even fewer will listen each time until eventually they are left shouting at each other in an isolated room. Or has that happened already?

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    1. Re:Hysterical by gweihir · · Score: 0

      And if you believe that ... never mind.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Hysterical by jbmartin6 · · Score: 2

      I believe it to a point. There is a certain class of identifier which has no value for Google, such as name and specific street address. So a lot of medical data (and other kinds) are shared widely (not just with Google) after being 'anonymized' by removing the very specific identifiers. This is done for statistical analysis and a host of other reasons. But de-anonymizing isn't overly difficult if you already have other data to match against. Which Google and thousands of other organizations do.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    3. Re:Hysterical by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, I do agree that deanonymizing "anonymized" data is routinely very easy, especially when you only want 95% or so in accuracy.

      However, I do not get your point. Are you saying this latest development changes nothing and they were directly lying before and are just maybe a bit more honest now?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:Hysterical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For AI based systems, the data is the technology.

    5. Re:Hysterical by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      I'm saying I believe that the data as held by DeepMind likely will not be shared. An "anonymized" subset of the data has probably already been shared multiple times.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    6. Re: Hysterical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "will continue to lie"

      The relevant portion.

    7. Re: Hysterical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeat after me- âoe advertising companies have no business EVER seeing my medical dataâ. Say that 10 times in a row. If you want to be in this business then get the F out of the hyper focused ad-tech business.

  10. Re: Would you still complain if it saved your life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously. This type of comprehensive information needs to be studied by all medical fields. I am not sure Google is the one that should be doing it but they seem to be the only actor with the ability to start the conversation.

  11. Evil by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Pretty much what more perceptive people have predicted is happening. Also, anybody working at Google should think very hard about what it means to be complicit and whether that is something they want to be.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re: Evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google thinks they are the internet. Nobody else does. Not amazon, not Facebook, etc. why does google get to pretend they own the internet? Why cant they act like everybody else? Nobody else needs to pretend they are synonymous with information to be successful

    2. Re: Evil by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Such beliefs come easy when you are arrogant and ignorant enough.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  12. If it were only trust by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 0

    They should be accused of making shoddy products. They are supposed to be geniuses, and (e.g.) Android remains an unholy piece of crap, that sort of works, except when it doesn't, at which point nobody seems to know why, and the default remedy seems to be a factory reset. What a bunch of ridiculous clowns. As for the Apple fans, do not rejoice too much, for Apple's offerings in this space are at least as obnoxious and pathetic.

    1. Re: If it were only trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google makes great software products. They should focus on those products

    2. Re:If it were only trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... Your Windows phone finally died?

  13. Privacy Loophole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a company needs access to Google's data, they just market themselves for acquisition.

    Post-acquisition, it's all Google!

  14. Re: Would you still complain if it saved your life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if it found out google was endangering my life through shoddy info practices?

  15. Bevil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google recently shortened their motto to the one work neologism "Bevil"

  16. Trust Me... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    The check's in the mail.

    No, that dress doesn't make you look fat.

    Despite the fact that our entire history screams otherwise, we won't compromise your privacy to monetize your data.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  17. Never trust applications. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Never trust an application to not behave maliciously. If it has the technical capability to copy your information and phone home then you should assume that's exactly what it will do. We need to develop security hardened OSes to prevent this kind of privacy infringement because it will not stop on it's own but it can be prevented from happening in the first place.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  18. The Streams by ilikethings · · Score: 1

    Don't cross the Streams

  19. Need to adjust that wording by bagofbeans · · Score: 1

    and all decisions about its use will continue to lie with them

    is actually

    and all lies about its use will continue to be their decision

  20. Jail Time by sit1963nz · · Score: 1

    The ONLY thing that will stop these large corporations is 2-3 years jail time for senior management. Paying fines does not work, they simply view that as a cost of doing business.

  21. Zach Patterson / ZIP "Greatest Hits" (lol, not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See how STUPID "ZIP" (Zach Patterson) the CHIMP is (tried to take credit for what I solved before him) https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (he needs to LEARN TO READ)!

    I even SHOW ways to do it YOURSELF https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (he couldn't).

    Delphi/FreePascal/ObjectPascal HAS no issue w/ null-term'd string bufferoverflows - C does, C++ can UNLESS you do what I said 1st loser.

    Tell us about CODE SIGNING (which has been STOLEN & ABUSED) https://www.helpnetsecurity.co... MY METHOD CAN'T BE (upmodded +2 INTERESTING in CODING FOR DEFCON no less) https://it.slashdot.org/commen...

    "I'm a much better programmer than APK" - by Anonymous Coward ZIP on Monday October 08, 2018 @11:27PM (#57449082) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... yet nothing to show in programs. I can from registered /.ers liking/using/praising my work (& 100k users worldwide too). He can't.

    LIAR ZIP says he has no account "I don't have an account, so I don't have mod points" https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

    Yet LIAR ZIP says he downmods my posts (IMPOSSIBLE MINUS AN ACCOUNT on /.): "I down-modded a few of your post on other threads" - by Anonymous Coward "ZIP" on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:31AM (#57461058) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

    APK

    P.S.=> KEEP PLAYING PUSSY GAMES IMPERSONATING ME YOU CHIMP - this comes out every time, lol!... apk

  22. Re: Would you still complain if it saved your lif by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am quite sure that google is not the party who should have this data. Why should they? Hey everybody we should encourage medical research and save lives, and we should put our trust in a FUCKING ADVERTISING COMPANY to do it.

  23. The NHS don't realise how valuable their data are! by wiretrip · · Score: 1

    Really, the NHS should have an in-house data exploitation centre. Research should be invited (and the data 'rented out') but should be done on the premises, using NHS hardware; the data should never leave.