Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Chinese Telecoms Giant ZTE is Helping Venezuela Build a System That Monitors Citizen Behavior Through a New Identification Card (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on from the your-rights-be-damned dept.

The "fatherland card," already used by the government to track voting, worries many in Venezuela and beyond. From a report: In April 2008, former Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez dispatched Justice Ministry officials to visit counterparts in the Chinese technology hub of Shenzhen. Their mission, according to a member of the Venezuela delegation, was to learn the workings of China's national identity card program. Chavez, a decade into his self-styled socialist revolution, wanted help to provide ID credentials to the millions of Venezuelans who still lacked basic documentation needed for tasks like voting or opening a bank account. Once in Shenzhen, though, the Venezuelans realized a card could do far more than just identify the recipient.

There, at the headquarters of Chinese telecom giant ZTE Corp, they learned how China, using smart cards, was developing a system that would help Beijing track social, political and economic behavior. Using vast databases to store information gathered with the card's use, a government could monitor everything from a citizen's personal finances to medical history and voting activity. "What we saw in China changed everything," said the member of the Venezuelan delegation, technical advisor Anthony Daquin. His initial amazement, he said, gradually turned to fear that such a system could lead to abuses of privacy by Venezuela's government. "They were looking to have citizen control."

The following year, when he raised concerns with Venezuelan officials, Daquin told Reuters, he was detained, beaten and extorted by intelligence agents. They knocked several teeth out with a handgun and accused him of treasonous behavior, Daquin said, prompting him to flee the country. Government spokespeople had no comment on Daquin's account. The project languished. But 10 years after the Shenzhen trip, Venezuela is rolling out a new, smart-card ID known as the "carnet de la patria," or "fatherland card." The ID transmits data about cardholders to computer servers. The card is increasingly linked by the government to subsidized food, health and other social programs most Venezuelans rely on to survive.

109 comments

  1. Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    They shouldn't attempt to control them, but monitoring is necessary for good and efficient governing. Chill. Nobody's coming for your guns anytime soon.

    1. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As government agent, we appreciate your support. The check is in the mail :-)

    2. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Completely backwards. It’s citizens who should be able to monitor their governments. A private citizen might be able to do a fair bit of evil (see the Oklahoma City bombing) but nowhere near what a government is capable of doing (see the Soviet gulags) even when it thinks it has good intentions (just about anything Mao did) and the support of the people.

    3. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They shouldn't attempt to control them, but monitoring is necessary for good and efficient governing. Chill. Nobody's coming for your guns anytime soon.

      You are downright fucking scary.

      Seriously.

      People like you are what make actual revolutions against totalitarian governments both necessary and bloody.

    4. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by anegg · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Monitoring can provide very efficient government. Whether it is good government is another question. An efficient tyranny would not be good. If we have learned nothing else from our experience with the adoption of the internet, we have shown just how a technical capability enables both positive and negative behavior. Removing âoenaturalâ limitations on systems can result in significant increases in undesirable behavior. Adapting the new system by introducing artificial limitations that recreate the beneficial effects of the lost natural limitations takes insight, planning, time, and will. Genies are hard to partially bottle back up. Color me skeptical.

    5. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the left speaks.

      You have no privacy. We want to know everything. Don't worry, we won't abuse it.

    6. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wanna bet. Government is a system of control by definition.

    7. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah. Conservatives are the ones who crave fascism. The police state is their comfort zone. They advocate never questioning authority, support the state crushing any form of protest, violently if necessary. No issues with militarizing the police, in fact in favor of deploying troops stateside. All good in GOP land.

    8. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But it's cool if the government monitored my political enemies yes?

    9. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They shouldn't attempt to control them, but monitoring is necessary for good and efficient governing. Chill. Nobody's coming for your guns anytime soon.

      Should or not is irrelevant... THE US DOES THE SAME DAMN THING. Except in the US the government has largely outsourced this to the private sector which in the name of "marketing" and "advertising" or credit checks have accumulated specific profile information on each and every person in the US.

      The data clearing houses of course have government contracts which allows the government access to this information. And the political parties can pay to access this information.

      And don't tell me that the profiles are "anonymized" because replacing a persons name with a uniquely identifying key is easy enough to reverse when you know the person's address, the person's employment, the persons credit history, their location history, their affiliations, their shoe size, their clothing preferences, their paid subscriptions, what their interests are.

      Make no mistake that this data is used to manipulate people. It isn't generally used to target individuals until they come to the attention of law enforcement and then it is used to target individuals. But it can be used by the parties to target groups of people or even target individuals.

    10. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      In Venezuela, the third box of liberty was misused. Now all that is left is the fifth box.

      That's how fast it happens. One minute you're complaining about something, anything, everything. Before you know it, complaining is a crime.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    11. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by rickb928 · · Score: 2

      And, lest we overlook this, the words 'monitoring', 'efficient', 'good', 'positive', 'negative', 'natural', 'undesirable', and 'beneficial' mean different things to different people.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    12. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In Venezuela, the third box of liberty was misused. Now all that is left is the fifth box.

      That's how fast it happens. One minute you're complaining about something, anything, everything. Before you know it, complaining is a crime.

      Welcome to late-stage socialism, when they've run out of other people's money.

      What had to start with at least the threat of violence (you can't take the "means of production" from the original owners without it) is bound to end with even worse violence.

      Someone tell all those sheltered, starry-eyed, brain-dead, entitled, snow-flake suburban U.S. twits enamored with socialism.

    13. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by RoccamOccam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nah. Conservatives are the ones who crave fascism. The police state is their comfort zone. They advocate never questioning authority, support the state crushing any form of protest, violently if necessary.

      Citation needed. In general, it is absolutely clear that conservatives favor less powerful central government and support the rights of individuals to protect themselves from overbearing government.

    14. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why, at least in the US, does the government grow under conservative leadership?
      Similarly the 'fiscal conservatives' would be the opposite...
      Or for the newest one: 'drain the swamp' .... Said the swamp monster.

    15. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ask Snowden just how the US responded to him revealing such.
      But lest we forget:
      * Government we do not like -> evil oppressive socialist nazis
      * Our government -> protecting our freedoms

    16. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by edris90 · · Score: 1

      Governing is a appplication of control over people. You have contradicted yourself. I thought we tried to avoid doublethink on slashdot

    17. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by sarren1901 · · Score: 2

      It's like saying you are a Liberal but voting Democrat. Being liberal does not make you a democrat. Being conservative does not make you a Republican.

      Sure, many liberals will vote Democrat and many conservatives will vote Republican, but those terms aren't interchangeable.

      Many old school blue dog Democrats are nothing like their socialist/communist nuts. Just like the nazi element is nothing like the fiscal conservative, small government type libertarian.

      If we didn't have a first past the post voting system and winner take all, I'm sure we would see less broadly defined parties. This is especially true for the middle of the road people that still join a D or R for primary purposes but really only agree with half or less of what the party stands for.

      It's why Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul both had to join "mainstream" parties to get a real chance, otherwise they would just split the ticket. Ross Perot did this in the 90s when he ran against Clinton and Dole. Clinton won what a typical democrat candidate would win but all the rest of the votes nearly divided equally between Perot and Dole.

    18. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by edris90 · · Score: -1

      The concept of private property was created and maintained by countless acts of violence and bloodshed, and maintain Ed by threat of violence and Targeted terroristic acts by the government against those who would dare to disassociate with the concept. Private property is not to be confused with the concept of personal property. Private property breaks the world. Because it is a privatizing of the means to production the creates the horrific amount of influence and control over other human beings by those who hold private property.

    19. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by I75BJC · · Score: 1

      " Chill. Nobody's coming for your guns anytime soon." -- Funny? Or Serious? Nice for someone to acknowledge that Government intrusion IS a problem.

    20. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by I75BJC · · Score: 1

      Fascism and Socialism have the same goal -- total control of the population. This is Totalitarianism, plain and simple. (IMHO) once a Right-wing movement (so-called Fascism) begins to take control of the populace and production, they have shifted to (or towards) Totalitarianism. Totalitarianism, whether beginning with a Right-wing or Left-wing movement is Always a Leftist movement politically. The politically Right moves toward less and less Government and governing while the Left moves toward more and more Government. If a Rightist flips, they become Left. Conservatives do not crave Fascism -- Faux Conservatives do. Regardless of how scary it may be to any particular Conservative, the basic premise of Conservatism is an increasing amount of freedom. In the USA, we banter terms around quite liberally -- nothing means what it started out meaning and, in this case, many people are trying to equate "Conservative" with completely Totalitarian ideas, principles and practice. (That's what this particular AC did; is he a puppet of Russia?(/sarc))

    21. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You DO know that the China is a Far Left Communist Authoritarian government, right?

      Holy fuck you God Damned fucking Butthurt assholes are pathetic.

      If Obama had proposed this, you'd be right there singing his praises.

    22. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah. Conservatives are the ones who crave fascism. The police state is their comfort zone. They advocate never questioning authority, support the state crushing any form of protest, violently if necessary. No issues with militarizing the police, in fact in favor of deploying troops stateside. All good in GOP land.

      You must be one true idiot through-and-through if you believe that bullshit.

      It's the LEFT that has literally institutionalized the silencing of opposing viewpoints.

      And who is dressing up all in black threatening violence for merely disagreeing with them politically? I give you the LEFT: laughably call yourself "anti-fascist" while dressing up and literally acting just like one.

      Gawd, you must have been dropped at birth.

      On your head.

      Six or seven times.

    23. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      extremists are the ones monitoring. For example, it was first reagan/GOP, and later W/GOP, that pushed all of the NSA's spying on Americans.
      Likewise, the far right wing NAZI party of Germany, along with Russian far right winger Putin, was/is huge on monitoring.

      Then we have the far left wingers of USSR, China, and North Korea that pushed massive monitoring.

      As to the claim that conservative favor less powerfull central gov, that is like claiming that conservatives love balanced budgets. Conservatives are happy to run deficits, as long as it is 100% of what they want.

    24. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by edi_guy · · Score: 2
      While I understand your point, you must agree what you have written is strictly theoretical at this point. As a flurry of posters will mention the US Govt under multiple conservative administrations has greatly expanded in scope, cost, and people. The surveillance state has multiplied dramatically, defense of course, and even ginormous social programs like Medicare Part D under George W.

      Conservatives are also supposed to believe in not spending more than you take in, but that went the way of the dodo bird decades ago. It would be interesting for you to point out a US national politician that best reflects true conservatism.

    25. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      That's about as backwards as it can get. Private property is the foundation of individual liberty, for if there is no such thing as private property, you can't even stand up in safety and be left alone.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    26. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The concept of private property was created and maintained by countless acts of violence and bloodshed, and maintain Ed by threat of violence and Targeted terroristic acts by the government against those who would dare to disassociate with the concept. Private property is not to be confused with the concept of personal property. Private property breaks the world. Because it is a privatizing of the means to production the creates the horrific amount of influence and control over other human beings by those who hold private property.

      Are you really deluded enough to think that private property's effects don't include advances in science and medicine that among many other things include eradication of entire deadly diseases like smallpox? Improvements in agriculture that allow Earth to support 7+ billion people?

      Because guess where just about every major breakthrough that made those advances possible came from?

      Yeah, Western Europe or it's cultural descendants.

      CAPITALIST Western Europe.

      CHRISTIAN, CAPITALIST Western Europe.

      The ONLY civilization in the history of the world to voluntarily give up its slaves. Christian, capitalist Europe then IMPOSED that abolition on the rest of the world - because the power of Western Europe's capitalist-fueled industrial economy gave them the power to do so.

      It's the non-private property collectivists that have resulted in the deaths of one hundred million or so.

      Khmer Rough Killing Fields - 3-4 million dead out of a country of 7 million - collectivist LEFTISTS.
      Great Chinese Famine - 40 million dead - collectivist LEFTISTS
      Soviet Famine - 10-20 million dead collectivist LEFTISTS

      And I think it's fucking hilarious how you think statist collectivism is better - of all the millions and millions killed by your favorite form of government, many of them starved to death.

      Your fucking leftists can't even grow food properly, yet you tout their advantage over private property?

      YOU ARE A FOOL

    27. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by mangastudent · · Score: 2

      No, citation is definitely needed, it's the conservatives who (mostly) approve of the people being well armed, while gun control has now become the absolute dogma of the Democratic party at the national level.

    28. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah. Conservatives are the ones who crave fascism. The police state is their comfort zone. They advocate never questioning authority, support the state crushing any form of protest, violently if necessary.

      Citation needed. In general, it is absolutely clear that conservatives favor less powerful central government* and support the rights of individuals** to protect themselves from overbearing government.

      * Excluding law enforcement
      ** Excluding immigrants, no amount of red tape is too much red tape

        Ask a few conservative voters what our immigration GOALS are sometime, what are the odds that conversation goes darkly xenophobic... we both know the answer.

      At the state level and lower the dynamics are all different. Your local HOA-nazi complaining about your garage door color and grass height is as likely to be a staunch conservative as anything else, but thatâ(TM)s not central, itâ(TM)s just shit governance.

    29. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      '3 eyes' started under FDR, formalized under Truman.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    30. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by edi_guy · · Score: 1
      Fine you are into guns I am not. I recognize the second amendment, appreciate it's original intent, and don't have an interest in subverting any parts of the Constitution. But politicians on both sides are adept at ginning up the electorate on this issue, while really big and bad structural problems are weakening the country.

      By all standard definitions I should call myself a conservative, but cannot because there is no political party/person that reflects even a shade of true conservatism. In the past people calling themselves 'conservatives' inserted themselves and their government into citizens personal affairs (gay marriage, religion, etc) which is the opposite of what it should be. They continue to run up huge debts to pay for huge government (yes, Defense Dept counts as government) , which should also not be considered conservative. Trample on states rights when deemed political convenient, massive surveillance on citizens in violation of multiple amendments, and so on.

    31. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      You mean Jeff Bezos.

    32. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes it is generally true that conservatives want the least amount of government regulation of capitalism. We would compete with Chinese laborers making $0.12/day if they had their way.

    33. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse them with facts when all they have is emotion.

      How many times do we have to go through this before people finally learn? How many more millions have to die before we put a stop to it?

    34. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nazis Christian capitalists
      Conquistas christian capitalists
      North Americans responsible for the death of millions of native americans christian capitalists
      Hey this game is fun...
      But sadly what you seem unable to comprehend that, like in Nazi Germany, the whole Socialist thing was simply a carrot to get people to elect a dictatorship.

    35. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They only want less government oversite so they rape the county.

    36. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citations:

      https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=conservatism+and+authoritarianism&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

    37. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded down by the snowflakes afraid to hear the truth. America is so ass backwards.

    38. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice right wing revisionism! Too bad slavery still exists in the US, and is even chartered into the constitution as punishment for a crime. So there went your entire point.

      If you don't like socialism, you should definitely stay away from computers. They can only possibly exist with open source software, aka socialist software. And the internet is a complete no-go. So I trust you'll destroy your computers and never get online ever again in order to avoid being a hypocrite?

    39. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you know you are espousing literal Nazi propaganda? History soundly disagrees with you. Luckily the youth nowadays recognize that, as the right wing is shrinking massively as they get more extreme and fascistic.

    40. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At this point, totalitarianism is the ideology of conservatives in the United States. There is a huge amount of dog-whistling about 'being a conservative', but this translates directly to 'being a Republican', and in turn, being a racist and without doubt an extreme-right-wing person. The Republican Party has cornered itself into an unenviably tight spot.

      In most places, political parties are either progressive or regressive. The Democratic Party is progressive, but it may run the danger of becoming regressive, if they allow too many self-styled socialists to gain power over the party. Many self-styled socialists do not even know what socialism means. Worse is, if they do, and have an agenda (don't forget, though, that Republicans and the extreme-right-wing have an agenda, too), and go on in the farther future to implement the destructive policies of Venezuela, though they're currently far too restricted in enacting those. It would take a while from progressive social democrat values and measures to something that's in Maduro's Venezuela.

    41. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by edris90 · · Score: 1

      All the technology in the world's useless if it's inaccessible. I have decent health insurance and I still have to fight an uphill battle to get my doctors to obey. And because I'm not a doctor I can't order stuff directly and Bill to insurance. So you spend 6 months leveraging your doctor into finally ordering the test you want, you can confirm and finally get treatment for what's been hurting you, that's if you're lucky.

    42. Re: Governments SHOULD monitor citizens by edris90 · · Score: 1

      and perhaps you're right maybe it was worth it to put up with the all the shitty tradeoffs of capitalism in order to develop the technology level that we have now but now that we have already developed that technology, its job is done. Because at this point capitalism and private property is maintaining suffering proactively in order to stabilize marketspace. The capitalists have finish their job and much like a war hero becomes a demon if he keeps killing people when the war is over so has capitalism overstayed.

  2. Where are they now? by Syncerus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where are Sean Penn and Danny Glover now? Sigh ...

    --
    "Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
    1. Re:Where are they now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "fatherland card."

      Also where is Mossad? They clearly missed a few in South America.

    2. Re:Where are they now? by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      They're pieces of shit. Always have been, always will be. They have zero credibility, and any intellect they espouse is just dog vomit for other statists to lap up.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:Where are they now? by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      Pretty much. I wonder if they ever thought to take pay cuts so that the grips, gaffers, and other set crew could be paid more. Shouldn’t they make just as much as the director or the actors?

      After all, if anyone should own the means of production, it would be the crew of a film set.

    4. Re:Where are they now? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Informative

      How about Oliver Stone? There's a man whose art is taken seriously by the intelligentsia. Heck, look at what our own politicians think:

      "These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, VENEZUELA and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?"
      -- Bernie Sanders

      This is democratic socialism, as much as Slashdot refuses to accept it. The Venezuelan government was democratically elected by the people to seize the means of production and ration out the benefits. The United Socialist Party of Venezuela instituted democratic socialism built on the socialist policies of Hugo Chavez. It was failing long before the oil prices fell, there were chronic food shortages back in 2013 when the oil was close to a $100.

      This is socialism, it has lead to ruin and misery in many states before. At some point when its failed economic policies start leading to starvation, the people start revolting and it inevitably starts demanding more authoritarian power to maintain its control. You know, like is happening in this very story we're discussing.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:Where are they now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are part of the resistance. Why not try it in the good old usa.

    6. Re: Where are they now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be great to be able to use the dictatorship in Venezuela as the straw man against socialism to divert your attention to your own failings. Better to stay defiant and die because you cannot afford health care and are wracked with debt from the for-profit college you got your useless degree from.
      Under no circumstances should you copy what most other industrial nation has done and used the money to help all their citizens and create a healthy and intelligent populace.
      Nah, better to make sure all the wealth remains in he hands of a few that will do what they can to remain on top.
      And definately be sure to swollow the fear they sell you ... better to hate those below you then to focus on those selling you said poison and their scheming.
      Surely you must also never question youself why the system where everything you want has to be as cheap as possible somehow does not have a job such a highly qualified dead-beat like yourself, but some brown skinned uneducated person has zero problems finding low wage jobs, simply because they are willing to work hard. No, darn it. They should take you because of some right you have never earned.

      And the best way to fight a problem is to not understand the problem ... because that just might mean you could find out there are better ways and that you were the problem all along.

      Nah, better to blame some people kneeling during the anthem at a dumb game.. not like you ever stood for anything.

    7. Re: Where are they now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeremy Corbyn said in 2013 that Hugo Chavez "showed us that there is a different and a better way of doing things. It's called socialism, it's called social justice and it's something Venezuela has made a big step towards."

    8. Re:Where are they now? by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      So just like the left wing Republican party is doing to America? Massive government subsidies to agriculture has nothing to do with Conservative values. A member of the Tea Party would say let Mexico have the $1 per day farm jobs so we can have cheap food. There is nothing Conservative about running $1+ Trillion deficits per year during the "good years" (not recession) when you should be paying down the debt.

    9. Re:Where are they now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, socialism has been a great success in countries that aren't infiltrated by CIA members instigating coups. Chile only recovered from their version of Hitler (Pinochet, a US installed puppet) by returning to socialism. And now it is highly unlikely they will ever return to capitalism after the horrors they experienced.

      Even mentioning Pinochet to a Chilean will likely get your ass kicked, just like mentioning how great Hitler was to a Holocaust survivor. Chances are, with your beliefs though, you likely believe the Holocaust was fake.

    10. Re:Where are they now? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Whataboutism.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  3. But... by Nutria · · Score: -1, Troll

    Voter ID cards are designed by Republicans to prevent black people from voting.

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    1. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that a ballot measure in Florida has granted ex-felons the right to vote, we shouldn't have any more close presidential elections for a long, long time. Inmates, where people of color are over represented, turn into ex-felons, who will now be able to vote (1.4 million of them in Florida). Basically we've dumped 1.4 million new voters who skew heavily African-American, who skew heavily Democratic. Game over Conservidudes. Game over.

    2. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean the same Republican party that freed the black slaves and lead charge for the Civil Rights Act? Go home and come back when you learn your history.

    3. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then give up on importing illegals. We know you needed to hold their kids hostage for votes, but now that you've got a criminal army, let's stop importing another.

    4. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Only because the Democrat's Jim Crow laws failed to do so.

    5. Re:But... by BlackOverflow · · Score: 0

      So why exactly do you want to destroy America so badly?

    6. Re:But... by harrkev · · Score: 2

      But democrats want to use ID to prevent black people from buying a gun, opening a bank account, boarding an airplane, getting a library card, or getting a fishing license.

      All of those are uses of ID that are not considered racist. But requiring it to vote? Yup, racist. Explain the difference.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    7. Re:But... by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      You mean the same Republican party that freed the black slaves and lead charge for the Civil Rights Act? Go home and come back when you learn your history.

      It certainly was not the same party that freed the slaves. No-one involved in freeing the slaves is still alive.

      As for the Civil Rights Act, support for that was very strong among both major parties except for in the South. It's pretty misleading to give Republicans the primary credit, although if you're willing to pick your facts carefully I guess you can justify it. But even so, that was more than fifty years ago, and again the party has changed a lot since then.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    8. Re:But... by I75BJC · · Score: 1

      Many historians give the Republicans credit for passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If it had been a partisan bill and only the Democrats voted for it, the Civil Rights Bill would have never become an Act. There just weren't enough Democrat votes, even with a Democrat majority in the House of Representative & Senate to pass the bill into law. Remember POTUS LBJ was a Southern Democrat -- his support of the Civil Rights Bill was to gain political advantage among black voters to ensure his party's success at the polls.

    9. Re: But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm.. republicans could always vote...

    10. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what your saying the original Republican party disappeared sometime between 1860 and 1960? Then some other republican party took its place rather recently in history? Do tell what history book you learned this from?

  4. US tech is used to bomb kids by johnsie · · Score: 0

    Easy to make the Chinese tech companies look bad. But who do you think develops the weapons that are killing so many people in Yemen?

    1. Re:US tech is used to bomb kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel

      Next question

    2. Re:US tech is used to bomb kids by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      And who who do you think develops the weapons that are killing so many people in Venezuela?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  5. self-styled? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Chavez, a decade into his self-styled socialist revolution,

    What, was it not certified by the socialist revolution certification board or something?

    It's so funny watching you all try to disassociate yourselves from Venezuela ...

    1. Re:self-styled? by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not funny. Over 100 MILLION have died as the result of communism. I guess we're going to make it a few billion on the planet? Fuck it, why not. People are stupid.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:self-styled? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Only true Scotsmen will ever be able to live in a real socialist country.

    3. Re:self-styled? by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      And I think, upon minimal research, your number is low.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    4. Re: self-styled? by edris90 · · Score: 1

      Everybody born is already dead in the long run, it's just a matter of time. If we don't modify our culture to stop promoting fear of death then that fear is going to continue to be exploited, to prevent any real progress or change. Death is inevitable but fear of death is relative 2 cultural values. Example, the Vikings,

    5. Re:self-styled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there are the Bolivarian ideals, the Mao's interpretations, the Juche ideals of North Korean, the East Germany style communism, the Soviet style communism, the Cuban communism, the "communisms" of terrorist movements like the RAF and various Maoist rebel and terror movements of the present and the past and the idealist communists movements and parties in Europe and in the US of the 20's-70's. There are so many kinds of communists and socialists that the heads should spin. Chavez did proclaim his socialism as following the Bolivarian ideals, construing as a Bolivarian Revolution.

      It's so funny watching you all try to disassociate yourselves from Venezuela

      But the question is: who do you think is associated with Venezuela here?

    6. Re: self-styled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vikings were also conquerors. Communism brings out the Hunger Games in everyone....or at least those that wish to survive.

    7. Re: self-styled? by edris90 · · Score: 1

      But then least everybody has a fair shot at achieving something acceptable versus right now where what you are born into determines most of your opportunities in life

    8. Re: self-styled? by edris90 · · Score: 1

      No they weren't. The Vikings were not conquerors . they were Raiders. They harvested and gathered from other cultures much like we Harvest and gather from nature. and the way the Vikings were putting the English out of their misery. Apathetic people who tended to hold up and wait to die rather than show any self worth and fight to defend themselves. Churches full of gold and other things they are just sitting around, doing nothing. people who have lost their basic skills and life running and hiding like vermin. They may have been inconvenience and sometimes violent but no more so then the casual Violence by English and French aristocracy against the Common Man.

  6. Yeah but thats not REAL socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it was real socialism everyone would be holding hands and singing and unicorns would be dancing.

    This must be some sort of fake socialism! Shame on you slashdot! You must be racist and homophobic!

  7. Shhhhhhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's keep this story on the down-low. Agent Orange might hear about it, and want to implement in the US.

    1. Re:Shhhhhhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely some future Dem President will want it.

      Have to control "Hate Speech" and all.

  8. who better for the job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    china can do it to 1.4 billion people.. tracking a measly 32 million is a cruise through Tiananmen Square in armored tanks.

  9. Nazi germany 2.0 trump needs to cut them off by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Nazi germany 2.0 trump needs to cut them off

    1. Re:Nazi germany 2.0 trump needs to cut them off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nazi germany 2.0 trump needs to cut them off

      You needed more hugs as a child.

  10. mod d0Wn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    All major surveys practical purp0ses, fear the reaper are allowed to play charnel house. Let's keep to For successful

  11. I don't know why people act outraged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're not doing anything Democrats wouldn't do next time they gain power.

  12. Opression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is what happens when you go too far left.

    I hope one day people realize that going too far left or too far right for that matter is no good.

    1. Re:Opression by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      This is what happens when you go too far left.

      You wont be able to convince people that going this far left turns you into nazi's.. because the left has been telling everyone that the nazi's were right wing for over 60 years now. It doesnt matter how obviously wrong the left is on the matter of the nazis... even if yet another leftist nation is calling itself the fatherland.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Opression by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "It doesnt matter how obviously wrong the left is on the matter of the nazis... "

      This is not a matter of the Left being 'wrong'. This is another deliberate misuse of words, and plain lying, to avoid responsibility for past crimes, cast the unfavorable light of their own actions on their opposition, and redefine the Left as good. All lies, all false, all the time.

      It is a common political tactic to preemptively accuse your opposition of that bad act which you, yourself, have done, is doing, and will do in the future.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    3. Re:Opression by mangastudent · · Score: 1

      You wont be able to convince people that going this far left turns you into nazi's.. because the left has been telling everyone that the nazi's were right wing for over 60 years now.

      Longer, FDR compared Calvin Coolidge to a Fascist, and exactly 80 years ago Thomas Dewey (!) was compared to Hilter in the presidential election where he was trying to defeat Truman, and infamously did in those newspapers that went to press too early in the morning.

      You would think by now people would have woken up to this blatant lie, but it's probably more powerful than ever.

    4. Re:Opression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you go far to the right you get the American Revolution. I don't think going far right is a bad thing.

    5. Re:Opression by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'THIS time it's true!' is part of the derp.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re: Opression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think the founding fathers are anything like the repubtards we have today, then I have a pack of used condoms to sell you.

  13. "fatherland card." by lkcl · · Score: 2

    "fatherland card... fatherland card...." where have we seen that before? oh yes!
    apartheid in south africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    hitler's nazi germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    yeah i'll stop there.

    1. Re: "fatherland card." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      âoeReal IDâ

    2. Re:"fatherland card." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are sexists, they should call it "motherland card".

  14. You're the beast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, the 666 revelation dragon woman will monitor its citizens! You can't buy or sell, you can't get a job, unless you comply with the ruling party! Evil is good, good is bad! Come and get your mark everyone! May God have mercy on your ignorant souls! Do you no realize that you are blind and naked?

  15. Digital Communism by Zorro · · Score: 1

    Wait till they learn they can just infect a tracking chip directly in to the body.

  16. Viva la socialismo, VIVA che guevaraaaaaa.... by gDLL · · Score: 1

    what's that? the big GESTAPO helping the little komrad /tavarisi Gestapo ? who would have thought ?

  17. Soft Socialism replaced by hard Communism by mi · · Score: 0

    After it fails, if you are lucky, your country's soft Socialism is rejected — as happened in Scandinavia, even if Sanders' fans don't know it.

    If you aren't lucky, it is replaced by the hard Communism...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  18. Re:US tech is used to bomb kids..Neda! by I75BJC · · Score: 1

    The Russians! They invented the AK family of weapons that Venezuela use. And the Chinese who are the largest producers of AK weapons! Please get your facts straight. Amazingly, you forget that the Spanish and the South American Indians were quite brutal without USA help -- long before the USA existed! They passed their wisdom and knowledge of torture, maiming, killing and warring down to their descendants, the Venezuelans.

  19. Progressives at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is what Progressives are wanting. They will help you make the RIGHT choices.
    If the government tells you what to choose, is it really a choice?

  20. Re: US tech is used to bomb kids..Neda! by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    My facts? The weapon being used in Venezuela to kill so many is Socialism. Guns are a tool to the Socialist, for their exclusive use, because everything else is illegitimate to the Socialist.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  21. Certainly not Marx! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > What, was it not certified by the socialist revolution certification board or something?

    Don't even get them started on how the National Socialists weren't. Apparently the history of Socialists betraying and murdering other Socialists in the pursuit of power only proves that there are no true Socialists. Somehow violent revolution never leads to the magical state of equality they promised.

    It's almost like history is telling us that tearing down the state with a violent revolution doesn't lead to utopia. Weird, right? Who knew?

    1. Re:Certainly not Marx! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Privatizing public services, as the Nazis did continously, is not so much a socialist endeavor as it is a capitalist one. If you go by names, then NK is a democratic republic. And buffalo wings come from flying cattle. Most Americans do not know how to ignore the words and pay attention to the actions. When you learn to do that, life will make a lot more sense, and the obvious authoritarian tendencies of the right are impossible to ignore. Hence why vested interests started rewriting history in the 70's to disassociate the right with the myriad brutal dictatorships that seemingly always stems from right wing governance.

      Did you know that before the 70's, it was unanimously understood that Nazis were far right? It has only become muddied recently. Ask anyone old enough to remember and they'll tell you.

  22. Re:Governments SHOULD monitor citizens FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nah. Authoritarians are the ones....

  23. We have the same thing here in the United States by BoFo · · Score: 1

    It's called a smartphone.

  24. Chinese morals.. by h8sg8s · · Score: 1

    .. and other oxymoronic word pairings. Seriously, China has morals completely in line with those of Venezuela, at least under Maduro.

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
  25. Not much confidence. by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    If you have to monitor people so much. What you think your system is not up to par.

    --
    [($)]
  26. Finally? by ememisya · · Score: 1

    Are we finally admiting that we are doing this globally and that every person born in the Internet enabled world has no privacy? I mean everybody already knows this but are countries owning up to how screwed every person is going forward because our lives can be played with like Sims characters? China was never pretending, they said smoking cigarettes in prohibited areas gives you -100 points and helping an old lady cross the street is +100 points. U.S. chased Snowden off to Russia and just sort of beat everyone talking about him to shut the fuck up. But is this it? Now that we realize policy is the only solution, we are going to stop playing with everyone unable to purchase their privacy? Boy that would be wonderful news. Evil loses in global politics where money is everything.