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In an Open Letter To EU's Competition Commissioner, 14 European Shopping Comparison Services Say Google is Not Making the Search For Products Fairer (bbc.com)

Google is not complying with European demands that it must make the search for products fairer, rivals say. In an open letter to the EU's Competition Commissioner on Thursday, they wrote: We are writing to you as leading European comparison shopping services (CSSs) to express our collective view that Google's "compliance mechanism" in the Google Search (Comparison Shopping) case does not comply with the European Commission's June 2017 Prohibition Decision. It has now been more than a year since Google introduced its auction-based "remedy", and the harm to competition, consumers and innovation caused by Google's illegal conduct has continued unabated. We therefore respectfully urge you to commence non-compliance proceedings against Google. BBC offers some background: In June 2017, European competition commissioner Margrethe Vestager ruled that Google had abused its power by promoting its own shopping service at the top of search results, and demanded that it provide equal treatment to rival comparison sites in future. She issued a record fine of $2.7bn -- the largest penalty the European Commission has ever imposed. She also demanded that Google end its anti-competitive practices within 90 days or face further costs. Google is still appealing against the fine, but has come up with a system that it says makes shopping fairer. It changed the shopping box, which is displayed at the top of search results, so that it is no longer populated with just Google Shopping ad results, but gives space to other shopping comparison services, who can bid for advertising slots.

113 comments

  1. Contradictory goals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making a search engine "fairer" in this sense means making it less fit for purpose.
    A search engine should give the most relevant results, not the most "fair".

    1. Re:Contradictory goals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So many posts about the EU and google. I bet sometimes google talks about something that has nothing to do with the EU and sometimes the EU talks about something that has nothing to do with google.

    2. Re:Contradictory goals by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The shopping stuff isn't part of the search results, it's an advertising box at the top that used to display results from Google Shopping. Now it also displays results from other shopping sites.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Contradictory goals by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      I don't know about your browser but on mine it's one of a group of links at the top after a search.

    4. Re:Contradictory goals by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's Google Shopping. But normally there is also a box below the menu bar and above the search results with shopping links.

      Obviously if you have an ad blocker you won't see it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re: Contradictory goals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? What's "relevant"? The things the search engine sells, or what the user is looking for?

    6. Re: Contradictory goals by fred911 · · Score: 2

      Relevant results are landing pages that provide high utility, functionality, and are trustworthy for the majority of users entering said query for the users location.

        It's really not complicated. Ads are plainly marked. If the service doesn't provide useful results, you are free to use other indexes. Contrary to popular belief, if Google didn't exist the majority of the network would still be (and is) indexed, one way or another. Google IS NOT the network, just the crutch Joe Sixpack has become dependant upon.

        People need to get over their dependency of using one provider for all services. Whereas the said provider does a pretty good job, there are just as useful alternatives for all services they offer.

      tcp/ip .. the cat's outa the bag

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    7. Re: Contradictory goals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Contrary to popular belief, if Google didn't exist the majority of the network would still be (and is) indexed,

      The argument here isn't about the IP network infrastructure, but about the search services market, where Google has a dominant position, which it was found to abuse.

      Saying "Google isn't the network" is like saying "logistics Monopoly doesn't matter if it happens on the road that isn't owned by the shipping company."

      The two are not related, and the complaints about Google's behaviour aren't about their use of the internet protocols.

    8. Re:Contradictory goals by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      ...sorting them not by relevancy but by how much they paid Google.

      So much for "the most relevant, not the most fair".

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    9. Re: Contradictory goals by fred911 · · Score: 1

      A monopoly implies that there's no alternative resources for consumers. The playfield is populated with players with equal funding/resources. If and when consumers find better value elsewhere, they will gain users. Currently we see consumers using Google. If you don't like it, do better than them. Otherwise STFU and man up, this world rewards those that do better than others for a reason.

        Just because someone plays better ball than everyone, doesn't mean there's not equal opportunity for an even better player to shine.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  2. ??? What is wrong with Google's solution by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    It allows all of the 'stores' to bid on the items at the top. I mean do these ppl think that they get it free? Obviously not. Google is not giving away things.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:??? What is wrong with Google's solution by Luthair · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The people complaining aren't stores they're "comparison" sites, aka sites that have a bunch of generated pages with referral links. These sites were a plague before Google started lowering their page rankings.

    2. Re:??? What is wrong with Google's solution by SharpFang · · Score: 2

      Are you asking what's wrong if your search results are ordered by "paid most to Google" instead of relevancy?

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  3. Build your own ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can't say I like the way google has been going lately but Google's business is part helping people find things, part pointing them at particular things, why in hell anyone would think they should be forced to host their competitors in their place of business is a complete mystery.

    Should they give free adds to Amazon ? After all Amazon serves as a shopping service ? What about Ebay ?

    The EU has always been horribly obvious about being bought and paid for by European aristocrats, the ancien regime that never really went away, this is just a further attempt by them to shakedown a deep pocket.

    1. Re:Build your own ? by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      why in hell anyone would think they should be forced to host their competitors in their place of business is a complete mystery.

      Because that's what the law says ?

    2. Re:Build your own ? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I agree that it was not really fair. However, it is absolutely no different than when Google first set-up. That is, the first row is for whomever wants to bid top price. Obviously, Google has to bid on it as well. I see nothing illegal with this set-up.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Build your own ? by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Obviously, Google has to bid on it as well.

      This would be fair if Google Shopping was its own company, completely independent from Google Search. I don't know if that's the case.

    4. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't really matter. Someone has to buy the products. That's a much stronger dynamic than what either Google or the EU want.

    5. Re:Build your own ? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The EU's explanation of the ruling is quite enlightening: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-r...

      Imagine, you want to look for a product online. You type the product into the Google search engine. What you will see right at the top of the page is a box with Google Shopping's results, with pictures and a selection of deals from different retailers. They are placed above the results that Google's generic search algorithms consider most relevant.

      At the same time, Google has demoted rival comparison shopping services in its search results. The evidence shows that even the most highly ranked rival appears on average only on page four of Google's search results. Others appear even further down.

      (emphasis mine)

      Google abused its position as the dominant search engine by artificially down-ranking rivals and giving its own service top billing. In the EU this is illegal as it leads to massive monopolies and a lack of fair competition.

      Note that the solution proposed by Google and accepted by the EU is to auction slots in the special shopping area at the top of the search results page, not to offer anything for free.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Build your own ? by scamper_22 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, in general no, but when you get into 'monopoly' law then it can become a yes.

      This is not a new area of law here. Whenever you have a monopoly, you need to handle it to have an open market. They had a lot of caselaw back in the day on rail road monopolies. Would you want a rail road operator preventing certain goods from being shipped? If I'm a railway company and I also own an apply farm, is it right for me to not ship apples from other companies? That's an abuse of monopoly. Network system, especially infrastructure are especially prone to such abuse.

      Build your own railroad is not a 'good' answer to apple farmers.
      Digital networks/monopolies are more interesting because it is theoretically easier to build a competing product, but in practice it's very similar to railroads. It's not hard to build a google competitor, but it is much harder to get all the users google has.

      If google, being the top search engine is classified as being in a monopoly position, then it is reasonable to have measures in place to make sure they don't unfairly mistreat competitors or trump up their own services too much.

      The details can work themselves out in the courts and lawyers, but it's a pretty reasonable ask.

    7. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they instead left the spot open for auction, there would be a company willing to pay top dollar for that spot.

      Google using that own space means they don't get that top dollar. Of course, the incentives are probably that they'll get more profit this way, but it's not like the spot was totally free - it comes with an opportunity cost.

    8. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they did a bad thing in the past they should be allowed to keep doing bad things again in the future.
      Just like America with all it's CO2...

    9. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      why in hell anyone would think they should be forced to host their competitors in their place of business is a complete mystery.

      Because society belongs to all of us real people, not to Google. We paid the taxes to fund its services and contribute to its defense. Although, companies like Google have shirked their tax responsibilities so arguably they should have even less say in our society because they haven't paid their fair share towards its maintenance. However, to answer your question, Google can be forced to follow our rules by force of our laws which are backed up by our police and ultimately by our armies. In short, by force of arms and right of victory from which flows sovereignty. Humans have been using violence to organize society and enforce rules since the beginning of history, there's nothing mysterious about that.

      Should they give free adds to Amazon ? After all Amazon serves as a shopping service ? What about Ebay ?

      They should pay their fair share of taxes and follow the rules. How about we start with that.

      The EU has always been horribly obvious about being bought and paid for by European aristocrats, the ancien regime that never really went away, this is just a further attempt by them to shakedown a deep pocket.

      On the contrary, the Europeans have rendered us Americans a great service by enacting the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and I salute them for having the courage to do it in the face of corporate lies.

    10. Re: Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't the EU make its own competing search engine? Aren't Europeans geniuses? It should be easy for them. Their own product would dethrone Google immediately. So why don't they make a competing engine? Do not tell me that (gasp!) they can't!

    11. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 2

      These companies are complaining that they don't receive free advertising for their 'comparison' services which make all of their revenues via affiliate kickbacks. Maybe there is a reason why people don't use these competing services, ie they don't offer the lowest prices. So their 'remedy' is for Google to spend its resources promoting their service -- which is just a program which generates a website with the affiliate kickbacks embedded in the links.

      That's a great business! Can't fail to make money since you have shifted all of your marketing costs onto another entity and all you do is collect the profit.

    12. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Crimson Tsunami(Caffeinated Bacon)
      What is a git like you doing here? Did you finish Xi's knob yet? Tell the next bloke to not smash your head against the wall. You IQ continues to drop as you finish with your head in the bloody bog.
      As windy points out, the yanks continue to drop their emissions, while yours continues to rise. Even now, you Chinese have your CO2 well above what we do. By the looks of it, you idiots will be above the Americans in the next 2-4 years. The only good news is that China will suffer more than we will as the temperature rises because of blokes like you.

    13. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Imagine, you want to look for a product online. You type the Foundem into the Google search engine. What you'll right at the top of the page is a link to Foundem's comparison shopping engine. Click on that link and you be taken to a shopping engine completely devoid of Google content.

      Maybe if these sites made an effort to marketing themselves people would use them.

    14. Re:Build your own ? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Because we don't allow them to both help you search for goods *and* sell them to you. It's anti-competitive.

      One likely result based on history is that you (Crashmarik) will get results which result in you paying a higher price for those goods than if you got fair search results.

      In "high moat" businesses, it also allows them to drive competitors out of business, buy them up, and then charge much higher prices once they have no competition.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    15. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Foundem is not an apple farmer it is a competing railroad. They are demanding that since they don't have tracks and Google does then their trains should get to run on Google's tracks for free. Google is willing to allow Foundem trains on its tracks but says they have to pay for the privilege since it is not free to build and maintain tracks.

    16. Re:Build your own ? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Obviously, Google has to bid on it as well.

      This would be fair if Google Shopping was its own company, completely independent from Google Search. I don't know if that's the case.

      How would making it a separate company change anything?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    17. Re:Build your own ? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Obviously, it is not independent. Or are you meaning that it is say a subsidiary? I agree with you that they can not be working together in any way shape or form. That was the issue with MS and IBM. They used to have groups working together that should not have been.

      I would like to think that they are isolated from each other, but with the google CEO, we will have to see.
      It is kind of sad. Google has gone from do no evil (and they were actually good about that, IMHO), to lets be like MS and IBM. Hopefully, Page is not allowing Pichai to cheat much more.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    18. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      interesting argument considering the most effective form of marketing is google which has been accused of messing with its search results so that competitors are down voted... smells of extortion to me. If you are typing foudem into google then you already know about the site, the issue comes when people search more generic terms such as "price comparisons" etc

      The problem is that there is no solution, google cannot show how its algorithm works as that will lead to gamification and you cannot separate the advertising of google from the search as that is how the search is funded.

    19. Re:Build your own ? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      ...why in hell anyone would think they should be forced to host their competitors in their place of business is a complete mystery.

      Perhaps a 'search engine' shouldn't be competing with their clients.

    20. Re:Build your own ? by fred911 · · Score: 1

      "That is, the first row is for whomever wants to bid top price."

      That's complete bullship. If you are referring to the ads that are plainly marked, well yes their placement is there because of compensation. As far ranking past ads, it's done by the algorithm. The algorithm attempts to provide the most useful, relevant and high quality result for every query and is constantly being updated.

        Besides, they're a company not a utility. As far as a company is concerned, they pretty much do better than most (look at the market cap).

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    21. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Google has very nice options for paid advertising. Maybe foundem should advertise itself instead of demanding free marketing.

      My company has to pay for advertising, no one gives it to us for free. Why is foundem special?

    22. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Because we don't allow them to both help you search for goods *and* sell them to you. It's anti-competitive.

      Someone should talk to Amazon about this.

    23. Re:Build your own ? by kerashi · · Score: 1

      Seems to me the ultimate problem is the limited available space. 14 comparison shopping sites all want that space. There's only, what, 5 slots in that all-important shopping bar at the top of the page? There's simply no way even a majority of them are going to get a spot on it in a given search. There is no solution to this problem that will satisfy these comparison shopping services, since Google would have to ruin the search experience by adding a godawful wall of shopping results before you even get to search.

      And as far as search results go, when shopping for a product, you want a link to purchase the product. Search results SHOULD point you to retailers carrying such a product - not comparison shopping sites that refer you back to a retailer for an affiliate kickback.

    24. Re:Build your own ? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      That's why Google created an auction, same as they use for other advertising space. And also stopped down-ranking comparison sites in search results.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they are a monopoly, and it's illegal to use a monopoly in one area (web search advertising) to gain an advantage in another area (product search). If they want to vacate the product search business entirely, or decouple their product search from their web search, that's A-OK. What they can't do is use their monopoly to promote their other products.

      The same thing applied to Microsoft and web browsers; they illegally leveraged their monopoly in the OS field to gain a monopoly in web browsing, and we had years of technological stagnation as a result.

      The EU isn't anti-US, it's anti-monopoly. The US is run by monopolies, so tends to run afoul of anti-monopoly laws. China doesn't allow foreign monopolies in, the EU requires them to open their platforms or face fines. Other markets are a lot smaller and generally more hostile to foreign competition.

    26. Re:Build your own ? by dryeo · · Score: 2

      They went public, so now the unwritten motto is "do whatever necessary to increase the stock price"

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    27. Re:Build your own ? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the compromise reached was to auction off these spots, not give them away free.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    28. Re:Build your own ? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Google agreed to auction off the right to use its rails as there is only room for so many. They also agreed not to put the other rail companies terminals in the back of beyond but to fairly go by usage.
      No free rides, just no abuse of the monopoly of having the only tracks in an area.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    29. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Read the article. Foundem is complaining that it does not want to spend money for the auctions and want the EU to change the terms so that the spots are free.

    30. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Read the article, Foundem is complaining that Google's prices are too high and it should be able to ride the rails for free.

    31. Re:Build your own ? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Read the article?
      Anyways my apologies for maintaining the tradition of being wrong by not reading the article. The auctioning seems best as long as Google isn't allowed to bid.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    32. Re:Build your own ? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      I believe I just answered you in another thread. Expecting us to read the article, what next.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    33. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      So to use the train analogy, you think it is ok for Google to build and maintain the tracks and then be prevented from running trains on them? With rules like that Google is not going to build any more tracks.

      And that may be the outcome here, the EU may succeed in incentivising Google to shut down both Google Shopping and Google News in the EU. What the EU is missing here is that if they force Google to shut down Google Shopping they've pretty much handed the market over to Amazon. But that's ok, they don't consider Amazon a competitor. I would suggest looking at the US where Amazon dominates shopping and most people don't even know Google Shopping exists.

    34. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Search is the railroad. Product search is maybe a railway wagon?

      Google own the railroad and some of the rail wagons; Google are making sure that the trains with Google's wagons arrive on time, and that Foundem's wagons get delayed. That's pretty much textbook monopoly abuse.

    35. Re:Build your own ? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      So to use the train analogy, you think it is ok for Google to build and maintain the tracks and then be prevented from running trains on them? With rules like that Google is not going to build any more tracks.

      The problem is that Google can bid a billion dollars as they're paying themselves. Not sure how the bidding could be made fair.
      Another idea is that Google, as the owner of the tracks, gets to use them but there is a randomization process to make sure that Google doesn't always get the prime times, or the top of the page in search terms. Something like the top 4 bidders and Google get randomized, or just Google is randomized, for the 5 placements. Perhaps these numbers need tuning.
      It's a problem, especially the part where Google was screwing with the actual search rankings, but even only having Googles stuff on the ad section.
      Ideally would be more competition. It's why I started using Google back in the day as the other search engines were crap and full of ads. Now I use DDG as the search results are usually good enough, and the ads seem less intrusive, though they seem to be getting worse as well. As a bonus, searching from SeaMonkey means that DDG gives a few cents to the SeaMonkey foundation. They need the money since Mozilla cut them off.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    36. Re:Build your own ? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      The Foundem comparison engine is just a bot. The owners go around getting affiliate kickback deals from the various vendors, then they generate a site containing those links.The reason people don't flock to it is because it doesn't produce actual good deals. This is not a website that can exist without a constant, expensive push marketing campaign.

      Now enter Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to disrupt Google search. Microsoft put a huge amount of legal backing behind Foundem's complaint to the EU. The EU declared this unfair and took $3B for their troubles. The EU didn't even bother to come up with a remedy, they told Google to come up with one. I think the EU was just looking for an excuse to take $3B from Google since they are upset about Google's tax deal in Ireland.

      So now with are stuck in the situation where Google is being forced to put Foundem into its Google Shopping results. So enter bidding on the ad placement. Google doesn't sell physical goods on Google Shopping, Google only sells ads to people who sell the goods. But wait -- that's exactly what Foundem does too via affiliate links. Is it surprise that Foundem's model which has another layer of middle man in it is not very profitable? Foundem is not offering any value add that consumers are willing to pay for, in fact most of their 'deals' are at list price. The other vendors purchasing ads for direct sale via Google Shopping have no problem paying the price of the ads.

      So Foundem cries "unfair" with Microsoft amplifying that cry. Is Google suppose to provide enough free marketing to this bot so that it owners can get rich tricking people into buying stuff at list price? The core problem here is that Foundem business model is only profitable if it can figure out a way to get lots of free advertising. There is not enough margin in their model to pay for all of the advertising they want.

    37. Re: Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      the yanks continue to drop their emissions,

      "The Yanks" have not lowered their emissions in 30 years.

      In the meantime Europe has gone down by nearly 20 percentage points.

      Go kie somewhere else.

    38. Re: Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't Google make its own EU and make the money it's making I the real one there?

      I mean, those Russkie emigrants who made it are geniuses, it would be easy for them to do it.

    39. Re:Build your own ? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Note that the solution proposed by Google and accepted by the EU is to auction slots in the special shopping area at the top of the search results page, not to offer anything for free.

      Auctioning slots does no good when Google is one of the bidders. Google can just bid $1 trillion for each slot. Since it's Google paying Google, their net cost is zero no matter what they bid. (Actually, if you take opportunity cost into account, their net cost is whatever the next highest bid was, since they are foregoing that revenue to advertise their product instead. Except that's how it works currently. They don't make any ad revenue listing competing shopping comparison sites, so they lose nothing by adopting a strategy which results in them not accepting any ad revenue from competing shopping comparison sites.)

      I'm pretty critical of most of the EU actions against Google, but I fully support them on this one (just not with them accepting the proposed solution). If Google is going to run a search engine, its results should be agnostic, not biased towards their own product or against their competitors'.

    40. Re:Build your own ? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      It depends upon how Google promotes searches. If Google promotes, search Google for the paid results Google is willing to allow you versus search the internet for what you are looking for using Google, one would be true and one would be fraud, Google is obviously choosing the fraud route. Google should be required to public disclose their search as tainted, controlled and misleading and that you use it at your own risk or they can be honest, simply disclose the search algorythms and disclose how they affect your searches. Google is crap for search, gave up and went https://duckduckgo.com/?q=duck.... As it was they didn't like me and made me do anti-robot searches because I noticed and disclosed a pattern in advertised searches (when an ad would appear, the search for that item would disappear below the fold, so you would click the ad, rather than the valid search item, even when searching a specific company name, the company name would be first in the ad section and way down in the actual search and find the buses in this picture over and over again PS what they did was fraud, they were cheating their advertisers who were paying unnecessarily for an ad).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    41. Re:Build your own ? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Then Google Shopping would need to balance the value of the promotion against cost of the space and decide if it's worth the expense. A serious business decision. The money's not getting back to them unless they can make them back in increased sales. Can they? Is their site's offer strong enough the spot will be worth paying more than competitors are willing to pay? Managers lose jobs for decisions like that: ad expense higher than ad returns.

      Currently the space can be taken by manager's fiat: "We bid a billion dollar which goes right back to our pockets, and you can piss off." The only cost is the lost opportunity cost - and that's not something managers need to worry about. You don't lose the job over dubious missed opportunities; over risks you've not taken. Even if the spot sold to someone could have generated more revenue than it does being held by Google Shopping, the revenue keeps coming - plus competition is held at bay.

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    42. Re:Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Market cap? You're an idiot. The market cap has goner down so the search results must be getting worse?

      Logic much?

      Market cap is high because they get away with illegal shit like what was mentioned. You truly must be daft.

    43. Re:Build your own ? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      why in hell anyone would think they should be forced to host their competitors in their place of business is a complete mystery.

      Because that is by definition an antitrust issue when you're in a position of market dominance.

      Should they give free adds to Amazon ?

      No one is asking for this. What they are asking for is level playing fields. You may not like it but the reality is even in your own country it's illegal to use a strong position of power to further your own products over the competition.

      The EU has always been horribly obvious about being bought and paid for by European aristocrats

      If that is your definition of actually enforcing the anti-trust laws that are on the books of most countries and in the USA completely ignored for corporate interests then I say fetch me another cigar so I can sit here and be smug and aristocraty, because it's a fuckload better than the alternative; Which all brings me to the title:

      Build your own?

      Yes that would be possible in perfect market. Unfortunately we're not in a perfect market, we're in a free market where competition is inherently an unstable condition and without regulations these market always tend towards the stable condition of a monopoly. So yes, I agree with you, we should build our own. We can start by regulating those abusing their position of power.

    44. Re:Build your own ? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      In the EU this is illegal

      It's illegal in the States too, it's just that no one gives a crap over there. No sorry that was wrong. People do give a crap. They cry foul, and socialism, and scream for small government every time the idea of regulating the free market (a market where monopolies are the only stable condition) gets raised.

    45. Re:Build your own ? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Google is willing to allow Foundem trains on its tracks but says they have to pay for the privilege since it is not free to build and maintain tracks.

      Not quite. Google is willing to allow anyone on its tracks on a fair and non-discriminatory basis providing they don't directly take from Google's resources, and decide due to competition that Foundem trains would need to pay for the privilage.

      Back a long time ago Google's search results were the product of a great algorithm, and if they still were just an algorithm then there wouldn't be a problem. The problem now is that it's not an algorithm. It's a curated result with specific competitors punished regardless of where the algorithm would rank them.

      Unfortunately for Google, that is actually illegal. It is in the USA too, just people are too afraid to actually enforce laws against companies over there for fear of not getting those lovely donations.

    46. Re:Build your own ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      That's not law that's persecution under the color of law.

    47. Re:Build your own ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Abused ?

      I suppose by that logic Macy's abused its position in Herald Square. Nevermind Gimbels was across the street, or Harrods is abusing its position

    48. Re:Build your own ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Because that is by definition an antitrust issue when you're in a position of market dominance.

      Would that be Amazon or Walmart that you actually mean ?

      Should they give free adds to Amazon ?

      No one is asking for this. What they are asking for is level playing fields

      Read the complaint that's exactly what they are asking for.

      The EU has always been horribly obvious about being bought and paid for by European aristocrats

      If that is your definition of actually enforcing the anti-trust laws that are on the books

      Yeah you need to talk to BASF about that. Hope you don't mind high food prices or energy prices, or high taxes

      But that's probably why the EU is holding together so well.

    49. Re:Build your own ? by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      This isn't even about Amazon or Target or shops like this. This ruling is about SHOPPING AGGREGATORS.

      There are a bunch of sketchy shopping aggregators sites. Their entire business model is to trick you into visiting them and searching via their site, instead of the actual retailer, so that they can get referral commissions.

      Google is gradually putting these sketchy sites out of business by cutting them out of the picture, and this is a GOOD THING FOR CONSUMERS. The world will be a better place if they all die.

      The EU ruling found in favour of these sketchy sites and said that if you go into Google and type "price of Pixel 3" that Google can't just give you the price and a bunch of links of places to buy it - they also have to show you links to these sketchy sites so they can collect their referral money.

    50. Re:Build your own ? by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      What is the value to the consumer of these shopping aggregation sites?

      Why would I, as someone searching for product, EVER WANT TO BE SENT TO THEM?

      These sites are a scourge on the internet and the sooner they all die, the better.

    51. Re: Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh... straw men are so boring.

      But I will explain anyway like you are a 6 year old:

      Google is a general search engine. Amazon is not.
      Google can hurt their shopping competition by abusing their search monopoly. This is called anti-trust. It is illegal because it hurts consumers.
      Amazon can not hurt their retail competitors in that way because they are not a search company.

      Boring boring boring straw man.

    52. Re: Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the yanks continue to drop their emissions,

      "The Yanks" have not lowered their emissions in 30 years.

      In the meantime Europe has gone down by nearly 20 percentage points.

      Go kie somewhere else.

      Crimson Tsunami(Caffeinated Bacon), you remain a liar.

    53. Re: Build your own ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lemme help you out here shillden. MAYBE you should not be shitposting in a discussion about google antitrust allegations when you happen to be a google employee. I like to fuck with you on here but this is serious shit and can cost you your job.

    54. Re:Build your own ? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Read the complaint that's exactly what they are asking for.

      No they are not. Try reading it again. All they are saying is that what Google did in response to the previous request doesn't actually meet the intent of the original ruling and then they lay out reasons why.

      Yeah you need to talk to BASF about that.

      Gladly. Let me know what I should talk to them about.

      Hope you don't mind high food prices or energy prices, or high taxes

      I really don't. My food is far higher quality and healthier than in the USA and Beef aside most of the meals we eat are actually cheaper too. Energy prices are high but we don't pay much for them as a result of the average EU home using less than half the energy of the average American home to say nothing of our cars. As for taxes? I gladly pay them. I receive great benefits including health care, infrastructure and social security in return in a way that has been shown time and time again in economic studies to be more efficient and cost effective compared to the "free" market approach in the USA.

      But that's probably why the EU is holding together so well.

      I'm genuinely confused at what you're talking about here. I mean the EU is a group of nations united more than ever before with one rogue set of idiots breaking away due to political stupidity against the will of their own people (even pro-Brexit publications admit that a referendum held now would result in staying in the union, as does basic statistics given the time since the previous vote).

      So I'm sorry you may need to explain this to me since as far as anyone can see the EU is holding together very well indeed.

  4. Why would we expect anything different? by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    Google's "compliance mechanism" in the Google Search (Comparison Shopping) case does not comply with the European Commission's June 2017 Prohibition Decision.

    Is there a reason why we would expect those fellas to say anything different or in support of Google? They need to hammer and keep hammering hard till some court smacks them down.

    1. Re: Why would we expect anything different? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon doesnâ(TM)t have high market access in the EU. Does the EU expect google to be fair? Yes. At the same time google isnâ(TM)t going to promote a product it doesnâ(TM)t have at least some confidence in. So I doubt google is going to do a free for all just to make the EU happy. Something in between maybe. Donâ(TM)t forget if a product is on google search the EU doesnâ(TM)t care about that. Itâ(TM)s the promoted products the EU wants done fairly. So google wants people on the ground in the EU to at least understand whatâ(TM)s out there and ideally to handle affiliate marketing. Anyone who fits the bill is likely to have deals with companies other than google. If anyone is looking exclusive arrangement that is unlikely

  5. This was predicted long ago: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "We expect that advertising funded search engines will be inherently biased towards the advertisers and away from the needs of the consumers." -- Google founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page, 1998.

    1. Re:This was predicted long ago: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They really said that? Damn, talk about fulfilling the prophecy all by yourself.

    2. Re:This was predicted long ago: by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      I think you're misunderstanding Sergei & Larry here.

      It is the EU ruling that is acting in favour of advertisers. Google Shopping is the one acting more on the consumer side.

      Google Shopping shows you products that match exactly what you are looking for and lets you buy them from whoever you want with the lowest price - IE, best interest of the consumer.

      The EU ruling says that Google can not act in best interest of consumers, and must instead allow sub-optimal results to also be returned from other sketchy shopping aggregators, to allow these sub-par sketchy companies into the results.

      Google wanted to at least charge companies for this privilege to offer these sub-par results, these companies are now complaining they want this for free as well.

    3. Re: This was predicted long ago: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Results should be returned sorted by price. That would put an end to any question of fairness or best for consumers.

  6. Wat by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 1

    Aliexpress for cheap stuff I don't need real soon, Ebay for used stuff, local stores for stuff that's a ripoff to get shipped, Amazon for everything else. People use google's shopping results?

    1. Re:Wat by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I use google shopping results when I'm shopping for wacky crap that I'm not having luck finding on amazon or eBay. (Aliexpress is a last resort for me, mostly since their site is so crap but also because nothing is warehoused in the USA.) Also you forgot newegg for computer parts :p

      It's actually been a huge help in finding tools in particular...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Wat by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 1

      Do you mean googling a product, or specifically using their "Shopping" feature? I google products all the time, hell, it's more reliable than Amazon's internal search. I've NEVER had a useful hit from their shopping service though.

      Aliexpress I used to have similar feelings about, but the trick is, you buy from then when you know you're after something that's dominated by scammers and review buyers anyway. If Amazon can't be arsed to enforce honesty, I might as well go to China for what I want.

    3. Re:Wat by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      I agree that this is a huge uproar about a service that is in decline. As soon as Amazon gets established in the EU no one is going to care about Google Shopping anymore in the EU.

  7. You all built a monopoly.. now you don't like it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google owes you nothing.

    If you don't like it, do what i do. Don't use it. I know it's really hard to believe, but there are other sites on the internet besides Google, Facebook, and Amazon.

    It's amazing. It's almost like the internet gives you choice. Including the choice to create or destroy monopolies. Maybe you should think twice before creating them instead of baaaahing like a sheep and doing whatever the marketeers tell you to do.

  8. This site is a joke.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it links to a story, and copies whole paragraphs from said story, which is again an article that copies whole paragraphs from a complaint on another website. It's almost like the bar to entry for a story is n +1, where n is a story from another website, and the number is the percent of words needed to be added to the original story to become a new (non)story. At the very least make it seem less like plagiarism by rewording it.

  9. Re: You all built a monopoly.. now you don't like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you wear sunglasses at night, don't you?

  10. Re: You all built a monopoly.. now you don't like by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 1

    Because when you're cool, the sun shine on you twenty four hours a day!

  11. Do the complaining sites link to Google? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I'm curious if the sites demanding the government force Google to link to them, for fairness, also are fair in that their search links to Google.

    That would be fair, right? If I demand your search has to link to me, obviously I make my search link back to you, right?

    1. Re:Do the complaining sites link to Google? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, they are just asking that Google doesn't illegally discriminate against them. The EU found evidence that Google was down-ranking competing sites to page 4 or beyond, while ensuring that its own very similar site appeared at the top of page one.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re: Do the complaining sites link to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, searchking made the same argument in favor of having the right to pollute search results with spam. He was arguing that Google should be regulated as a UTI and thus be "fair". He lost outright stateside. If he was in the EU, he probably would have won, especially if he happened to be nobility.

      (Ok I made that last one up, but it seems to be the general mindset of the EU.)

    3. Re: Do the complaining sites link to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a utility*

  12. There is only one true "fair" in a market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is value for the consumer. Provide or just get off the market. Quit whining about it if you cannot compete.

    1. Re: There is only one true "fair" in a market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See comments above about anti-trust. Thank you for educating yourself before joining the conversation.

  13. Google Must Be Broken Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Global freedom will not survive Google.

  14. What page do they put Google on? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    In their search results, on what page do they put the links to Google?

    1. Re: What page do they put Google on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't. What's your point? I bet it's a doozy!

    2. Re:What page do they put Google on? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Link at the top of every page, and in the ad box.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  15. I don't see it by raymorris · · Score: 2

    I'm happy to finding thrm anywhere on any of the sites from companies who are complaining. I don't see a link to Google at the top of any of these pages.

    http://www.foundem.co.uk/searc...
    https://www.redbrain.com/
    https://pricespy.co.uk/search?...

    The only mention I see of Google is that Redbrain promises advertisers that they can manipulate Google search results for them.

    1. Re:I don't see it by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      . I don't see a link to Google at the top of any of these pages.

      So? How's that relevant. None of those companies are abusing a monopoly in a different area to push more business towards themselves.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  16. Hey apologist (WindyBourne) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your tiny little country is only half China's total, good for you. But why is your Country 10X Canada or 13x Australia of 8x Germany?
    Why are you more than all 28 EU countries added together? You are the 2nd worst in the world but think you are good? Did one of your daddys drop you on your head when you were little?

  17. Still stumbling around looking for a clue are you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't have to be a subsidiary to be independent.
    You aren't necessarily independent if you are a subsidiary(why would you be?).
    Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about?

  18. Seems they should be pleased by lfp98 · · Score: 1

    If these shopping sites are so much better and more efficient than Google in identifying deals, surely word would get out and their popularity would soar. What I find is that, so often, they link to sites that don't even have the product available. Mostly, the aggregators just clutter up the search results when I am trying to find actual vendors. Yes, Google should pay much more to governments in the countries where it operates, but fining them for ad practices that are the only possible means of supporting their many free services, is not the way to do it.

  19. The answer by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2
    The European Union knows what is fair. The European Union needs to create it's own search engine. This will ensure that the European Union will have exactly precisely, and EU approved search engine that it needs.

    Seems so simple, and if fair, Google should be out of business very quickly. Perhaps even blocked in the EU.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:The answer by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Seems so simple, and if fair, Google should be out of business very quickly.

      It's a great idea. First we need to start by regulating Google to make competition possible.

      Or do you think competition is the natural state of a free market? If so then you should go find your economics professor and give him a right old kick in the balls for leading you so astray.

      The USA knows what is fair as well. They just chose to ignore it in favour of that sweet sweet brib... errr campaign donations. Or did you not know that the EU ruling is actually a law in the USA as well? If so you have a lot more ball kicking to do.

    2. Re:The answer by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Seems so simple, and if fair, Google should be out of business very quickly.

      It's a great idea. First we need to start by regulating Google to make competition possible.

      Google ia a company based in the evil USA. We are constantly haraunged about how inferior we are compared to Europeans. Next up, it would seem that our betters would easily be able to put Google right out of business.

      The first thing is to use the EU's willingness to have a lot of Government intervention, provide a superior search experience, and subsidize the bejabbers out of a search engine and shopping experience. When Google cannot compete with the Government subsidized prices, they will either adapt, or die.

      The trick is to use your willingness for Government control for th ebenefit of Europeans, rather than just try to tax the "Murricans.

      Seriously - there is a metric shit ton more money to be made by running the business instead of just parasitizing it. Use your power of government control.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:The answer by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Google ia a company based in the evil USA.

      The USA* is not evil. You people do stupid shit and smart shit, so does every country in the world. If you think that this side of the Atlantic says the USA* is universally evil then you haven't been paying attention.

      We are constantly haraunged about how inferior we are compared to Europeans.

      If that is what you understand out of all comparison between the USA* and Europe then I would suggest you start with the comment that you people in the USA* are inferior at understanding English.

      Next up, it would seem that our betters would easily be able to put Google right out of business.

      And inferior at understanding economics and business.

      The first thing is to use the EU's willingness to have a lot of Government intervention, provide a superior search experience, and subsidize the bejabbers out of a search engine and shopping experience. When Google cannot compete with the Government subsidized prices, they will either adapt, or die.

      And you don't seem to understand the difference between Socialism and the EU.

      The trick is to use your willingness for Government control for th ebenefit of Europeans, rather than just try to tax the "Murricans.

      Somehow you don't seem to understand taxes, and government handles on the economy and their use either.

      Seriously - there is a metric shit ton more money to be made by running the business instead of just parasitizing it. Use your power of government control.

      Nope. We don't want governments to run or prop up private enterprises. What we want is to not get shat on by corporations, and then thank them for it the day after Thanks Giving.

      *USA is often used generally, but quite frequently it is targetted at specific individuals. In this post, USA means you.

    4. Re:The answer by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And inferior at understanding economics and business.

      So edumacate me. Seems a little odd we are so inferior about business and economics

      And you don't seem to understand the difference between Socialism and the EU.

      Explain why the extent of your business acumen appears limited to taxing and fines.

      What exactly have you created lately? because it appears that you function much much better as a parasite. A superior parasite that is.

      Or use Yandex. Tell the Russians how they have to run things. They will no doubt do your bidding.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:The answer by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You missed the comment at the bottom. The USA isn't inferior, I'm calling out your specific understanding. For example the endless conflation of a free market and a perfect market. Every time you talk about one you actually talk about the other defined in the text book.

      Even in this very thread the two are confused. For example the ability to create a competitive product or service depends on a perfect market. A perfect market can not exist without heavy government regulation in a capitalistic system. A capitalistic system fundamentally depends on the principles of a free market, and a free market is inherently unstable from conception right until the entire market is dominated by a single monopoly.

      The USA knows this. You also have antitrust regulation and laws on the books for this very reason. However money talks, and it especially talks when its donated to people in order to preserve the free market conditions which ultimately prevent future competition from being created.

      That's economics 101. It does get far more complicated than that.

      Explain why the extent of your business acumen appears limited to taxing and fines.

      Because ultimately that is the only handle any government has on a *foreign* entitiy. It's also the only handle any government has on any entitiy where the continued operation of that entity in that country is in the mutual interest of both parties. This is why it's so laughable every time you see someone suggesting that either a country nationalise / kick out a company, or that a company leaves said country. It's unrealistic that hurts both parties far more than taxes and fines, even *if* such a regulation is possible and legal. And for all the cries of socialism it actually would be legally impossible to do far worse in Europe despite it's reputation as a big and overbearing government.

      Taxes and fines have their purpose and in general work quite well. On a more local scale you see quite a bit more servere reactions with laws passed to effectively eliminate undesirable business practices. But before you cry Volkswagon it is also worth remembering that big local companies underpin the big local economy, and in that specific case also prop up the finances of the government through public/private partnerships.

      Politics 101: The more high level and abstract the government (and it doesn't get more high level or abstract than the EU) the more soft levers like tarrifs and taxes are approriate for control.

      What exactly have you created lately?

      Oh I don't know. Just last week I read in the paper about a new system developed in an EU nation by a large producer of medical devices which will dramatically improve infant mortality during CPR by analysing and regulating airflow through the mouth. I'm sure you don't hear about that in your echo chamber of local news though, just how you don't hear about the EU and local governments here cracking down quite heavily on local anti-competitive behaviour too. After all, when you live outside the EU everything must be us vs them and we only crack down on "evil" USA companies because we "can't" innovate. But hey, many of us consider your aggresive mistreatment of people in the rest of the world (data collection) parasitic, and your superiority shows Mr Black Pot.

      Or use Yandex. Tell the Russians how they have to run things.

      Why? Yandex aren't doing anti-competitive practices pushing their products through their monopoly (at least not in countries where antitrust laws exist). And there's also no reason not to use Google search. Why would we do that? The only demands here is that they don't cross bundle unfairly. If you want an explaination as to why your suggestion is silly just go back and read 4 paragraphs further up. The intent is not for anyone to "stop using Google" that would be bad for both Google and the EU.

      Take an economics class.

    6. Re:The answer by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You missed the comment at the bottom. The USA isn't inferior, I'm calling out your specific understanding.

      I actually do get it. the EU cannot compete, they cannot create. Parasites.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:The answer by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0

      Why? Yandex aren't doing anti-competitive practices pushing their products through their monopoly (at least not in countries where antitrust laws exist). And there's also no reason not to use Google search.

      I missed that part. Using Yandex instead of Google should be the moral choice for the EU. If you use Google, you support Google.

      I don't support Google. I have all of their scripts blocked on all my machines. I use DDG as a search engine. In every possible way, I avoid using Google.

      There is some disconnect here, perhaps some cultural divide, where to me, avoiding the poison is the best way to get rid of the poison. Wheras there are some others who believe that continuing to drink the poison while yelling at the person poisoning you to stop poisoning you is somehow smarter.

      So yeah, if I was a Internet based company in the EU, I would be setting up for a EU centric search engine provider. Might take a few years, but seems that the stage is set for a little competition, and with the sort of control the Europeans want, it can be molded into something the believe is correct.

      And yet, I'm certain that any reply you send will have the same low-key insults about how stupid I am. Perhaps I understand a bit more about economics than you would give credit for. Whatever the case, the ability to control - which at heart is what the EU is demanding - is a lot easier when the entity you demand control over is within your borders.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:The answer by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I actually do get it. the EU cannot compete, they cannot create. Parasites.

      You clearly don't get it, but then it's hard to describe to you your poor reading comprehension skills through a medium that requires you to read.

      Using Yandex instead of Google should be the moral choice for the EU.

      That is the most retarded thing I've read on Slashdot. And I browse at -1.

      If you use Google, you support Google.

      We do support Google. That is the thing you don't get. We all support Google. We will continue to support Google while we protect ourselves from very VERY specific illegal activities they conduct. The response to that is not to dump Google. If you think it is then you have fundamentally failed to understand my entire post.

      avoiding the poison is the best way to get rid of the poison

      Define the poison. The poison is not Google. The poison is not search or the various services that Google provides. The poison is that a company this entrenched uses its power to prevent competition in other areas where they are not so entrenched. It is a posion which we are actively getting rid of by enforcing the antitrust laws that are on the books not only here, but in your country too.

      I would be setting up for a EU centric search engine provider. Might take a few years

      You should try doing just that. Maybe you'll finally get an appreciation for what market power actually means. Certainly I have failed to make that clear to you and I've run out of ways to explain this.

      I'm certain that any reply you send will have the same low-key insults about how stupid I am.

      You're not stupid. I am however critiscising your ability to understand written language, economics, and .... actually reading your bit about "control" I think you may have understood what I said about politics 101 so at least that is a plus.

    9. Re:The answer by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      We do support Google. That is the thing you don't get. We all support Google. We will continue to support Google while we protect ourselves from very VERY specific illegal activities they conduct. The response to that is not to dump Google. If you think it is then you have fundamentally failed to understand my entire post.

      So let me get this straight - you just wrote that you support criminals. Seriously - you call my writing retarded?

      Very specifically, I do now understand some aspercts of Europe that explains their very interesting history.

      I belive that we have taken this about as far as I care to, because you support criminals, you are a criminal.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:The answer by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight - you just wrote that you support criminals. Seriously - you call my writing retarded?

      No I didn't call you retarded. I said you don't know how to parse an English sentence. Something you clearly still don't know how to do since you seem to think Google is this singular take all or leave all thing.

      I belive that we have taken this about as far as I care to, because you support criminals, you are a criminal.

      You're retarded.

  20. Venezuella will welcome you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Communist all the way, and what's more they are experiencing a depopulation for some reason or other.

  21. Re:Hey apologist (Caffeinated Bacon) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck? Has Xi pounded your head against the wall too much?
    UK has one of the lower emissions, and we continue to drop ours.
    And comparing us to EU shows a real lack of IQ on you.
    Now,go back to your bog, you git.

  22. You're getting desperate now WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must really hate that guy for showing all your lies. Enough to blame him every time you disagree with random AC's.
    Or did you just make up shit again to blame on someone else because you could never find an actual lie of his?

  23. hey complete moron (WindBourne) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who even mentioned the UK?

    Oh no one did, you are just trying to change the topic to hide your lies again. Pathetic.
    Is American CO2 more than the whole EU or not?
    Stop pretending to be clean loser.