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Microsoft's Stock Market Value Pulls Ahead of Apple's (reuters.com)

Microsoft's stock market value surpassed Apple's and pulled ahead by as much as $3 billion on Wednesday as the Windows software maker benefited from optimism about demand for cloud computing services. From a report: Shares of Microsoft jumped 3 percent, pushing its market capitalization up to $848 billion. With the broad market rebounding following a recent slump, Apple also rose, but less than Microsoft. Its 2.17 percent increase put Apple's market capitalization at $845 billion, just four months after the iPhone maker breached the $1 trillion mark for the first time. Microsoft and Apple briefly traded at about the same level after the bell on Monday, but Microsoft's intraday lead over Apple on Wednesday was more substantial. Further reading: 'This is Not Your Father's Microsoft': CEO Satya Nadella On Helping a Faded Legend Find a 'Sense of Purpose'.

119 comments

  1. This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    About as well as the windows phone...

    1. Re:This should last... by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to see what percentage of Microsoft's money comes from installs v consumer products. Microsoft probably makes most of their money from companies having it on the server, and collecting desktops to domain servers, collecting seat licenses of $100s of dollars per year for Office, Outlook, seat licenses for various packages, etc. Obviously, every machine shipped by all of the computer makers gives some money to Microsoft, but when you can go a decade between replacements, that drops your annual cost to about $5/yr/machine. The important thing about the home machines is it keeps people on Windows so it's easier to keep people on it, and employees can trust most people to know it when hiring employees.

      As for the current stock price, I think Microsoft is more stable due to their strength in the corporate world, and so during the next down turn, they'll probably weather the storm the best. When luxury returns during the next recovery, I'd expect the other companies to outperform and some will pass Microsoft, since more people will be able to afford Apple's luxury items during times when things are improving.

    2. Re:This should last... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Microsoft latest line of success seems to be offering services outside of what Apples normal scope. Sure Apple may have a competing product, but it is often second or third fiddle to the company.

      Nearly everyone who I met who had a Windows Phone, actually liked it. However I think its biggest problem wasn't technical, but the fact we suffered too much from the Microsoft Monopoly, and being Microsoft main grab was the fact that all your programs worked in Windows. And Windows Phone didn't run windows desktop apps, it just made it a compelling reason to not get the phone.

      However Microsoft is slowly leaving the consumer market (with perhaps the XBox as an exception) and more focused on B2B type of services. You can still use your Mac, Linux system or your Google Phone, but the service goes via Microsoft Servers then they are doing just as well as having physical copies of the OS on every PC

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft doesn't actually have products that can compete 1:1 with Apple, so your "luxury item" dismissal is kind of silly. The reason people don't buy M$ phones isn't because Apple phones are some great luxury. It's because they work.

    4. Re:This should last... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      About as well as the windows phone...

      Might last longer. Apple is losing it's niche. The Apple phone and tablet used to have the perception of better quality to android (arguable I'm sure) - now it just looks like an uncool old person phone. Apple phone is no longer cool or perceived as better quality.

      Laptops- they've not really had much innovation in a long time.

      Unless they have a new idea or new product I can see their star waning. They've got enough capital to last forever though and still very profitable so they're never going away in our lifetime.

      Microsoft... everyone hates Microsoft and they seem to fail at most new ventures they try, but their core businesses Windows and Office are still the standard almost every office in the country. They are a major player in video game consoles and cloud platforms. They might not be able to launch any new successful products- but their cash cows are still strong.

      I can easily see over the next 20 years MS continuing to be MS and Apple slowly waning.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    5. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows phones worked really well. They just had a dismal mobile app store.

      You can always tell when someone has never used a Windows phone.

    6. Re:This should last... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Microsoft latest line of success seems to be offering services outside of what Apples normal scope. Sure Apple may have a competing product, but it is often second or third fiddle to the company.

      Nearly everyone who I met who had a Windows Phone, actually liked it. However I think its biggest problem wasn't technical, but the fact we suffered too much from the Microsoft Monopoly, and being Microsoft main grab was the fact that all your programs worked in Windows.

      Most non-technical people probably paid a lot more attention to hype than anything else. Windows Phone was ridiculed from day one. I never used one so can't comment on it's features but it simply wasn't "cool" and as much as we'd like to believe that doesn't, or shouldn't matter- it does... for many many people. When smart phones began to take off Apple was at peak "cool" and Microsoft was at peak "establishment meh" - now neither company is considered cool... they're both "establishment meh". Microsoft still has it's domination of office and home PC to fall back on with no real threat (unless you consider chromebook a threat)- Apple's realms of dominance the phone and Tablet were challenged from day one and it's just going to hemorrhage market share in the next decade.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    7. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows Phone was good. Windows 10 Mobile was not good - on my Lumia 930 at least. All the benefits: Very very long battery life, rock-solid reliability, superior performance, better quality DNG files etc. were turned upside down when Windows 10 came around. Even the unlimited free music and HERE Maps went bye-bye in exchange for inferior alternatives (Bing Maps and Groove respectively)

      People are correct when they say iPhones just work. That is where I went following the demise of my 930.

    8. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When not if these tech stocks pop like the stacks of empty hot air they are, fun will be unleashed.

    9. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft are quietly improving there product lines and will always be 1st for Business colaboration tools, whereas the mobile phone market peaked a while ago.

    10. Re:This should last... by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      It's not about direct competition, it's about who is spending the money. With Microsoft, a huge portion of their revenue comes from companies who have to spend the money to make money. It's just another cost of business, when the next market downturn happens, they'll lose companies that go bankrupt, but the rest of their customers will still have to spend to use their computers. Now, I was just reading an article on with an analyst who is thinking along the same lines as myself:
      https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/28...

      Apple on the other hand depends largely upon people's disposable incomes. If I'm somebody who makes 200k, the extra cost of buying Apple products isn't much of a consideration on what I'm buying, I'll choose based on device control, ease of use, image, features, etc. But somebody who makes 30k a year, maybe they decide to by a $50 instead of a $1000 iPhone. Unfortunately for Apple, when recessions hit, the people who are hit hardest are often people who make more money. Teachers, nurses, firefighters, etc are not laid off at near the rate of high earners in corporations that cut upper management, and commissioned sales people have a more difficult time closing deals as money becomes scarce.

      So, when the next crisis happens in the markets, possibly when the next recession starts, probably due to the Fed raising rates and pulling money out of the markets through a reverse quantitative easing, Apple is likely to be harder hit with lost sales. I'm not against Apple, I'm just saying that business wise, their eggs are in a basket that's going to be harder hit by recession. I have no idea who will be ahead 5, 10 or 20 years from now. If I knew that, I'd put my money where my mouth is and invest accordingly. But I'm not certain, and that's not a risk I want to take on either company right now.

    11. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a Windows phone... It was a total shit fest. The tile system was retarded. You were supposed to rely on that for notifications, but unless you're watching the tiles one by one as they flip, you'd miss something. When Microsoft finally copied Android's notification shade system, then you didn't need to waste so much time on the home screen.

      Everything about that shit reminded me of Yahoo's search page: Loaded to the brim and packed tight with shit that just doesn't matter (that, plus ads.) Microsoft finally figured out that flat UI is crap last year, and now Windows 10 is using a design language that somewhat resembles the material design language (Microsoft calls theirs "fluent design")

      That, and completely ditching skeumorph was stupid. The purpose of skeumorph is to make UI objects somewhat resemble everyday objects so that the UI is more intuitive and easy to understand. But you don't need to make them look exactly like everyday objects using bitmaps like Apple did. Example: for the phone dialing app, arrange the numbers to resemble the layout of a bell era telephone, as opposed to just listing the numbers in sequence on one line. But you don't need to make it lookexactly like a bell era phone.

      Microsoft built a UI that people just didn't like, and IMO, very much resembled a Fisher-Price toy.

    12. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are sorely underestimating the power of the iOS installed base.
      ~1 billion active users.

    13. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please to have some of your drugs

    14. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple at this point is a style/fad company. Barely innovating and just creating more me too products/updates to products at elevated prices. Because their brand name recognition will allow for those prices for now. When apple falls out of fashion, as most fads do over time you can expect them to tank as the young crowd gravitates to whatever the next fad is

    15. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At one point blackberry was damn near 100% of the installed base of "smart for the time" phones. Look where they are today. Nothing lasts if you don't innovate.

    16. Re:This should last... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      It was the only smart phone I ever considered buying because I found reviews from people that hadnt already decided what their opinion would be before getting one.

      Ultimately I decided they were still too expensive for the actual experience. The issue is that all these mobile OS's are still bringing down performance and taking up more and more storage and memory space with each iteration. The phones around the $100 mark today would be an easy buy if you could still run a mobile OS from 8 years ago, but instead they need one of the latest bloat-monster OS's.

      I also wont buy a $100 convertible like a chromebook for the same reason. The value just isnt there because performance and storage are too limiting.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    17. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Apple failed to defend its smartphone monopoly (luckily for everybody) while Microsoft did defend its PC monopoly (unluckily for everybody).

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    18. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You are sorely underestimating the power of the iOS installed base. ~1 billion active users.

      Android still sells over 1 billion handsets per year even with the flat smartphone market. What do you think that's going to do to Apple's installed base?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    19. Re:This should last... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So, it's 3rd place behind 2.7 billion Android and 1.4 billion Windows users. Seems there's no underestimating going on by the GP. 3rd place OS probably will have, long term, 3rd place capitalization.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    20. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Relevance?

      Not all customers are of equal value, and Apple has the majority of the most valuable ones.

    21. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong.. I continue to use apple, just because of the better permissions and privacy control. That's all

    22. Re: This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Shrink, shrink, shrinking away.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    23. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irrelevant _and_ wrong. Well done.

    24. Re: This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      The more Apple shrinks, the better for everyone.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    25. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely no reason to believe that. Apple has made far more profit than all the Android vendors combined.

    26. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the spyware and shit UI you mean.

    27. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are sorely underestimating the power of the iOS installed base. ~1 billion active users.

      Android still sells over 1 billion handsets per year even with the flat smartphone market. What do you think that's going to do to Apple's installed base?

      Well, Apple's marketshare increases, Android's drops.Everyone but you gets the picture.

    28. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more Apple shrinks, the better for everyone.

      Well, bad for you then that they don't.

    29. Re: This should last... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Nice pivot! Talking about the user base, and now pivoting to profits. Sweet!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    30. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? The thread is about market cap, which is obviously related to profitability. Apple has a very large and profitable user base that isn't going anywhere. Microsoft also has a large and profitable user base, but obviously it doesn't make as much per user.

      "Android" doesn't even belong in the conversation. It isn't a single company, and $50 emerging market Androids sold with razor-thin margins are irrelevant.

    31. Re: This should last... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1
      From the post I responded to:

      You are sorely underestimating the power of the iOS installed base. ~1 billion active users.

      You're welcome.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    32. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The power of the iOS installed base comes from its size, loyalty, and its profitability per user.

      You're welcome.

    33. Re: This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      What happened to that trillion dollar market cap?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    34. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You are sorely underestimating the power of the iOS installed base. ~1 billion active users.

      Android still sells over 1 billion handsets per year even with the flat smartphone market. What do you think that's going to do to Apple's installed base?

      Well, Apple's marketshare increases, Android's drops.Everyone but you gets the picture.

      Really? Android has now reached 88% worldwide market share and still climbing, how does that square with your wishful thinking?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    35. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you falsifying an irrelevant number?

    36. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1
      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    37. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the average of 18, 14, 11, 12?
      Further, what is the weighted average?

      (protip: 18 is the Christmas quarter, and the 14 is the Chinese New Year quarter)

    38. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      As you know, Apple just cut back its I-phone parts orders by 30%. Merry Christmas to you too.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    39. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it may have cut orders with some suppliers. Which happens frequently, and for any number of reasons.

      Your falsified irrelevant number is still false, and still irrelevant.

    40. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You're quite the denier.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    41. Re:This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're quite the fabulist.

    42. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happened to that trillion dollar market cap?

      Shifting goalposts to places where the competition doesn't really look good either? You are sooooo dumb.

    43. Re:This should last... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Fact: Apple global smartphone share = 12%

      Slightly going up YOY from 11.8% to 12.4% while Android's going down (because nothing else could have gone down) - thanks for disproving yourself.

      You didn't actually understand the numbers, right?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    44. Re:This should last... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      As you know, Apple just cut back its I-phone parts orders by 30%. Merry Christmas to you too.

      Say the same people who said the same last couple of years - when it obviously turned out to be false. So it must be right this time. Because they can't always be wrong.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    45. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      12% global share is eensy weesny. The slightest bit of downside price pressure translates to big revenue collapse. Merry Christmas.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    46. Re: This should last... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False and irrelevant

    47. Re:This should last... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      12% global share is eensy weesny.

      No, your dick is eensy weesny. What's your point? Your dick.

      You know what's fucking huge? Your insecurity about Android's ever more rapidly declining market share. Almost as big as the insecurity about your tiny dick.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    48. Re:This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Poster child for the Apple community ------^

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    49. Re: This should last... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Looking forward to single digit I-phone share

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    50. Re:This should last... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Poster child for the Apple community ------^

      So you admit having posters of Apple users hanging over your bed when you play with your tiny dick and when you don't admit you are wrong. Typical self-hating Apple-Hateboi.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  2. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the arbitrary base 10 number which is calculated from share price and shares outstanding. Irrelevant to anyone who knows the stock market well but fodder for sites looking for ad clicks.

    1. Re:Thanks by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      The market cap is a meaningless number, but only in a sense that is more sophisticated than how the number is used. In reality, the various prices paid for company stock of various types, that would allow you to calculate a more contextual number (leaving out all the *really meaningful* numbers, such as you would find in financial statements and annual reports) are kept under lock and key in the big company's main accounting system. Anyone who claims to have those details outside of the company are telling you something less than accurate.

    2. Re:Thanks by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      For most stock trades you are correct. However market cap is a good indication on the health of the company and its size compared to others.
      Stock Traders may not care, but if you are going to do business with a company and you see they have a large market cap, you can probably expect you can deal with a long term business plan with them.

      Now comparing MS with Apple, Google, and Amazon is more just grandstanding.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  3. This is not your father's Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:This is not your father's Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/old-apple-logo.jpg

  4. And then the MFA problem occured. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    :-D

  5. Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matter by bobstreo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is just as true regarding Internet Karma and Stock Values.

    I guess we'll see some Microsoft Executives unloading their stock shortly.

  6. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How on earth did they do that? Is there a manual? Everybody seems to want to be the next google, when I only want to be amazon or Microsoft.

    1. Re:Wow by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Back in the 1990's people wanted to be the Next Microsoft.
      Microsoft is falling into the IBM type of company. Old, Traditional, Predicable. May not be the best, but isn't that bad either.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  7. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Funny

    What about my Karma on slashdot? Surely that is important and real?

  8. New Private Message for msmash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody cares.

  9. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

    It doesn't appear on any official documents so you might have to wander in the desert for a while before you figure it out.

  10. Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vendor lock-in. It's guaranteed they'll continue to make money.

    Our cost to upgrade our ancient Exchange infrastructure? $45k

    So we moved to Linux and used Roundcube. Cost: $1,200.

    Employees keep bitching they like Outlook better until I send them a quote to move just their department to Exchange.

    1. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft.

    2. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both those options suck, majorly:

      Even at $45,000 over a 10 year period is still $4500/year - that's pennies compared to staff costs!
      RHEL is still $1200/year ($12,000) and then $2.42/user/month for enterprise-supported Roundcube (Kolab Enterprise)

      Both of these are missing decent spam filtering and anti-virus scanning which costs extra. Additionally both require expensive maintenance, as in paying folks like me and you to keep it running and to intervene in an emergency. Yes, it's possible to have decent policies in place like banning emails lacking a full pass on SPF checks (despite being against spec) and making aggressive use of spamassassin heuristics but it's still inferior to the AI driven facilities that major providers have, which are powered by a lot of learning data from a large range of users.

      Compare your solution with the major cloud equivalents:

      Office 365 is $4user/month and gives the full Exchange capabilities, with integrated spam filtering, anti-virus facilities and MDM for legislative adherence
      Google Apps is $5/user/month and offers full Exchange compatibility for how end-users access the system, has integrated spam filtering, MDM and anti-virus

      Both of these options require little/no support post-migration beyond basic desktop support in the case of using Microsoft Office. But as your user base is not using Outlook, they could simply use the web interfaces with zero maintenance required! The only scenario under which on-prem works out better value on Windows or Linux is when the business has enough users and internal resources that the operational cost overheads of renting are vastly greater than the initial upfront capital investment in the hardware and support contracts.

    3. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Except at Apple.

    4. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Spam filtering? I get at least twice as much spam at work on Outlook than I do at home without it.

    5. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's because of all the porn you watch at home.

    6. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vendor lock-in. It's guaranteed they'll continue to make money.

      What vendor lock-in? LibreOffice can open MS Office documents, often more reliably than MS Office itself. And you even go on to then disprove your own bogus claim by making the claim that it is not just possible (due to lack of vendor lock-in) but actually even cheaper to switch to a different vendor than to upgrade with Microsoft.

      Employees keep bitching they like Outlook better until I send them a quote to move just their department to Exchange.

      Why would employees care about that? Why are you sending your quote to the employees? It would be cheaper, in terms of outlay, to use The GIMP rather than Photoshop but saving the company a couple hundred dollars a year doesn't make any difference to me, I'd rather use the programs I prefer.

    7. Re:Why do people still trust Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cults are tough like that.

  11. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even Chinese drivers would've made it out of there in 10 years... either the god isn't very impressive or the worshipers aren't. Or both. Given the "holy texts" I'd say neither are worth much.

  12. Remember by jd · · Score: 2

    Stock values are according to what stock broker's computers think they can buy at in order to sell for a profit, according to a genetic algorithm nobody understands. Prices have no relationship to what the brokers think the stocks are worth, or what the company itself thinks it is worth. There is a slight negative relationship to what the company is actually doing. Real research and new products are more dangerous than playing it safe.

    Although brokers are often thought of as investors, they invest nothing in the companies they buy shares of. They're just buying and selling shares. None of that money is seen by the company itself, unless the company itself sells shares it holds in reserve. Directors selling shares can become rich, but that money doesn't go into the company. Company finances and director finances are kept seperate.

    So what this means is that a computer has decided Microsoft shares will go up in value by enough to make day trading in Microsoft shares highly profitable.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Remember by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      I would expect that research would also be playing it safe, if perhaps, research didn't get in the way of the normal course of trading. But I believe I agree with how you boiled down the ocean in the last sentence. Simplicity perhaps is always best. I'll have to check my encyclopedia tomorrow about all those other words you used :)

    2. Re:Remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stock values have no meaning. Only APK and his hosts file engine protect you from threats such as malware and pop-ups.

      Why are you worried about petty stock market nonsense? APK deserves your full attention. Give him your support. Spread his software far and wide.

      Until you commit your ENTIRE LIFE to him, your existence has no meaning.

      ALL HAIL APK

    3. Re:Remember by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Laying off employees is a reliable way to get a temporary boost to stock prices.

    4. Re:Remember by epine · · Score: 1

      So what this means is that a computer has decided Microsoft shares will go up in value by enough to make day trading in Microsoft shares highly profitable.

      None of these algorithms would work were it not for the boundary condition that many people invested in the market are investing for value, i.e. a future share in the underlying profit stream.

      The second stable semi-stable pool are the people busy hedging their bets to create a stable business environment. A proper hedge is conceptually a moving target. Hedge positions need to slosh around a bit all the time. What the speculators are doing is projecting where all this sloshing will find its natural equilibrium. For this service, they extract a profit, sometimes a large profit.

      Otherwise, all the hedge funds would attempt to debark on the same appealing tropical island to ride out a storm, and there would be serious run on coconut milk, and soon the "pomegranate" Pina Coladas would be haemoglobin infused.

      Moral of the story: you can't all hedge to the same shelter at the same time. Speculators increase the convergence rate to acceptable shelter occupancy levels. They're the PID controllers of nervous nelliehood.

      The mathematician who cracked Wall Street — March 2015

      Chris Anderson: But should we worry about the hedge fund industry attracting too much of the world's great mathematical and other talent to work on that, as opposed to the many other problems in the world?

      Jim Simons: Well, it's not just mathematical. We hire astronomers and physicists and things like that. I don't think we should worry about it too much. It's still a pretty small industry. And in fact, bringing science into the investing world has improved that world. It's reduced volatility. It's increased liquidity. Spreads are narrower because people are trading that kind of stuff. So I'm not too worried about Einstein going off and starting a hedge fund.

      Right, the average physicist couldn't math the hell out of a wet paper bag. And it's almost complete bullshit on another level, too, because much of the profit is driven by having a pre-eminent vantage point, which is extracted by rent rather than mojo.

      But it's not complete bullshit. Underneath all that, the speculators are indeed performing a small, valuable service in smoothing out the dynamic behaviours of a too-complex system.

      This is hardly ever explained at length by anyone competent on the inside, because very quickly any smart person can tell that this explanation's dick is small compared to the total volume of proceeds extracted (which only serves to heighten attention to the rent side of the business).

      But since (for this reason) it's rarely mentioned, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.

      Jim Simons: We stayed ahead of the pack by finding other approaches -- shorter-term approaches to some extent. The real thing was to gather a tremendous amount of data -- and we had to get it by hand in the early days. We went down to the Federal Reserve and copied interest rate histories and stuff like that, because it didn't exist on computers.

      We got a lot of data. And very smart people -- that was the key. I didn't really know how to hire people to do fundamental trading. I had hired a few -- some made money, some didn't make money. I couldn't make a business out of that. But I did know how to hire scientists, because I have some taste in that department. So, that's what we did. And gradually these models got better and better, and better and better.

      Maybe it's something else I read about this guy (he's directly connected to a controversial Robert Mercer, and Peter F. Brown, and a huge pile of NLP research papers I once amassed myself back in the 1990s) but he does point out that the cream here

  13. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

    That's because Chinese drivers may care less about running over pedestrians than in the US or the UK? :)

  14. Don't be a sourpuss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least cheer for these guys if you cheered for apple when they got biggest.

    1. Re:Don't be a sourpuss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats not the way apple cultist work.

    2. Re:Don't be a sourpuss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheer for Microsoft? In Slashdot? AHAhahahaha

  15. Re:Fuck Micro$oft by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Embrace, extend and extinguish the stock market?

  16. Re:Fuck Micro$oft by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    I don't think Microsoft is the good guy. They are a For Profit company, they will do what will make them money.
    However they found out they lost their monopoly hand. Not every device runs Windows, and the device that Runs Windows may not be users may not be using IE/Edge, and they will could be switching to other devices depending on what they are doing.

    Microsoft is playing the Good Guy Card, because their old game plan isn't viable.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  17. IS value or profits more important? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many question whether stock value or profits are better for a company. Obviously Apple beats everyone in technology on profits. Microsoft probably is a better bet for a stable tech company investment as its core cloud services will probably create more stability for stock holders. Apple can be a fickle stock to own these days although it an still bring to those who buy in at the right time. Both Apple and Microsoft are more diverse in their company profiles then say a Google or Facebook who depend mostly on ads for revenue.

  18. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go stand in the road and test your theory.

  19. no bully zone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    plz no bully

  20. What is it with this stupidity? by gweihir · · Score: 0

    Clearly MS is in steep decline. They have nothing new of any real value. They have lost technological control of their flagship OS win10 and stumble from one tech failure to the next. Large enterprises (I know at least one Fortune 100 that plans to do this) plan to not ever move to win10, but move to a web-client and at least seriously consider dropping MS Office as well in the process. And the stock becomes more valuable? Are these morons creating the next big bubble?

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Um, I don't think the problem is Microsoft, I think the problem is that you don't know anything about what Microsoft does.

      They've seen massive growth in important areas in recent years, such as in cloud computing where they're now the biggest player, or second biggest (depending on which source you believe, but either way there's not much in it) alongside Amazon.

      But they've also acquired GitHub and become the largest contributor to open source products on the planet. They've had a lot of success with developer tools such as Visual Studio code and languages like TypeScript. Contrary to your wholly incorrect statement about MS Office, it's still seeing a lot of growth, helped in part because many companies and individuals have been happy to move to the more profitable Office 365 cloud model.

      Xbox is still doing well, albeit not as well as Playstation currently, it's still profitable. About the only area they still have no presence is mobile, but as we've seen recently the sale of both tablets and mobile phones has slowed right down, whilst the growth of PC sales has picked up again, which can only help them.

      What rock have you been living under to seriously believe Microsoft don't have anything of value, no new products, and are in decline? It's pretty clear they're not, their revenue and profit both still continue to grow rapidly. They certainly were declining, but the last few years has seen them resurgent, in large part due to their move towards being much more open and their contributions to open source. In fact, one reason Azure has been so wildly successful is because Microsoft have been a major driving force behind current darlings such as Visual Studio Code, TypeScript, and Docker.

      You should probably seriously re-evaluate your current understanding of the IT world, as being that ignorant of the industry is fatal for your career prospects - you cannot be that ignore of IT products and trends and expect to have a future in the industry.

    2. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Large enterprises (I know at least one Fortune 100 that plans to do this) plan to not ever move to win10, but move to a web-client and at least seriously consider dropping MS Office as well in the process. And the stock becomes more valuable? Are these morons creating the next big bubble?

      Or maybe they simply don't suck at math as much as you. You know 1 Fortune 100 company that plans to do that, does it really escape you that that's 1% of Fortune 100 companies that have not yet, but you think are "planning", to move away from Windows and maybe MS Office. Meanwhile MS is attracting more and more customers to its cloud offerings, that's why they're making so much more profit and why the company's value is going up.

      How you feel about Microsoft isn't relevant, they know Windows is not the platform of the future which is why they have gone multi-platform with their major products and have built out their cloud services. Even if your assertion that 1% of Fortune 100 companies is abandoning Windows is correct that has an infinitesimal on Microsoft not just because it's a tiny tiny portion of the market but of a market that Microsoft themselves are not even focussing on anymore and is not driving their revenue.

    3. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Microsoft still enjoys significant lock-in with office software, games and OEM control. Microsoft's revenue is still increasing while its operating costs are not. I would not call that steep decline. Maybe later.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They dont have OEM control, nor do they need it. All the big OEMs have at one time or another sold Linux systems but Microsoft simply enjoys the fact that for whatever you think about Windows their other mass market competitor in desktop operating systems is Linux and it's rubbish. Microsoft managed to crap out Windows ME, Windows Vista and Windows 8 yet all of these had massively more users than all of the hundreds of Linux distributions combined had managed to garner over the years. It's not that Windows is good, it's that Linux (on the desktop) is garbage.

    5. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      They dont have OEM control, nor do they need it. All the big OEMs have at one time or another sold Linux...

      No, you're wrong, they still do it, they are just marginally more subtle about it. Try and find a big OEM that sells a Linux system running the exact same hardware as their Windows box. Try and find a big OEM win a configuration menu that lets you select Windows or Linux. You can't because Microsoft contractually prevents it, using the same old thugish license pricing threats they always used.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    6. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Try and find a big OEM win a configuration menu that lets you select Windows or Linux. "

      Correlation is not causation, you think big OEMs aren't offering PCs with Linux because of OEM lock-in, when the real reason OEMs aren't offering PCs with Linux is as the GP said, because it's fucking garbage on the desktop. No OEM is going to want to deal with people accidentally buying the Linux version of their PC, only to return it because Linux is fucking awful on the desktop and they wanted Windows.

      Until people get past this attitude that Microsoft today is the same as Microsoft of 10, or 20 years ago, then they'll never be able to get Linux on the desktop in any meaningful way because making up conspiracy theories about the competition doesn't make Linux not shit on the desktop, which is the real problem.

      If there was a Linux distro that was actually as good on the desktop as Windows, could run everything, wasn't buggy, and was easy to use, then people would jump on it. The closest example we have of this is OSX which is constrained only due to the fact that it's limited to Apple hardware and isn't available for bundling on PCs, if it was, manufacturers would undoubtedly have at least some OSX offerings.

      Ubuntu has tried, and gotten close, but not close enough. I installed 18.04 LTS the other day - a supposedly stable version and after a fresh installation on common Intel/Nvidia hardware it simply just sat with a blank screen and cursor permanently and never made it to the desktop. That's pathetic, it's inexecusable, for all Windows faults you just don't get problems like that, in the absolute worst case it at least times out and tells you something went wrong, and options for fixing it; if Linux can't even get the basics right, then it's definitely not Microsoft's fault Linux isn't ending up on the desktop other than the fact it offers a superior desktop OS.

      It's largely the fault of OSS developers - they're not interested in user friendliness, they just assume that if you get a blank screen with no instructions then you know how to drop out to a terminal, grep a bunch of log files, hack a bunch of config files, grab some new packages, and get going again. That's naive, stupid, and hopeless, and that's why unless that attitude changes and things are made to "just work" like Windows and OSX do nowadays then Linux doesn't have a hope in hell and again, making up conspiracy theories wont change that.

    7. Re:What is it with this stupidity? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Correlation is not causation, you think big OEMs aren't offering PCs with Linux because of OEM lock-in

      I didn't say that at all, troll. I said that when OEMs do offer Linux, which is quite often these days, they do not offer it on configurations that you can directly compare. Microsoft enforces this because Microsoft doesn't want customers to be able to easily determine the exact Windows tax they are paying.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  21. Re:Fuck Micro$oft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YES! Everything M$ does is bad because M$ does it!!!11 REEEEEEE

  22. $3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    Wow! A WHOLE 3 Billion?!?

    Color me completely unimpressed.

    By the time this article posts, Apple will probably be back on top.

    Plus, the entire stock market is extremely volatile right now.

    Non-News.

    1. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation required or shut the fuck up

    2. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by Darth · · Score: 3, Informative

      > By the time this article posts, Apple will probably be back on top.

      a quick check on google shows apple is up by $6 billion right now.

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
    3. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure shilly. Microsoft is DOOMED. Been hearing that from you appletards for years now.

    4. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 1

      More like decades....

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    5. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Color me completely unimpressed.

      I'm equally unimpressed with Apple's iPhone sales growth, or rather lack thereof. Even less impressed by their pathetic excuses about why it doesn't matter when in fact the size of the market is key to application developers, of course Apple have a vested interest in hiding any decline in that market.

    6. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      > By the time this article posts, Apple will probably be back on top.

      a quick check on google shows apple is up by $6 billion right now.

      Yet of course, Apple Hating Slashdot won't make an Article out of THAT; nor even UPDATE the original Article...

    7. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MAYBE you should CALL apple and REQUEST a different SITE to SHILL. That would PROBABLY be BEST for EVERYONE involved.

    8. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh shut the fuck up, you thrive on it and that's why you're always here getting all upset and posting rants at every little criticism of apple

    9. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yet of course, Apple Hating Slashdot won't make an Article out of THAT; nor even UPDATE the original Article...

      But if we didn't "hate" on Apple then you would be bored out of your mind and would leave. And we would miss you.

    10. Re:$3 Billion for them is like $20 to you and me by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Yet of course, Apple Hating Slashdot won't make an Article out of THAT; nor even UPDATE the original Article...

      But if we didn't "hate" on Apple then you would be bored out of your mind and would leave. And we would miss you.

      Actually, when I originally joined /. In 2004, I was initially attracted by the fact that there was a generally SUPPORTIVE attitude towards Apple and OS X. As an engineer and log standing Apple supporter and user myself, I found it gratifying that other "techies" recognized the power and elegance of OS X, and so I stayed.

      Then, over the next few years; something happened: With increasing frequency, posters, almost ALWAYS posting as AC, would create posts alleging the MOST ridiculous, over-the-top "Motives" on the part of Steve Jobs and Apple. I've frankly never been that big of a SJ fan; but, being an Apple enthusiast since the earliest days of the Company, and having a casual relationship with Steve Wozniak, I knew that Apple was, and still is, a VERY user-centric company, with far closer ties to hackers than stock brokers.

      So, when I saw these completely-baseless attacks, I felt the need to "defend" Apple against their bald-faced lies and mischaracterizations, (which are almost ALWAYS nothing more than JUST OPINION), with FACTS and CITATIONS whenever possible (and a quick look through the /. discussion threads will bear that out); but one thing that most ACs and ALL Apple-Haters seem to have in common is the ability to conveniently IGNORE those FACTS, and keep moving the goalposts and arguments around and around, until there was nothing to do in most cases but "let them have the last word".

      Which they, and their ilk, then gleefully count as a "victory"...

      So why continue to come here and suffer this abuse? IDK; but I guess I just don't want the smug, karma-proof ACs to have the FINAL "last word", and feel like they were ultimately able to drive "TheFakeTimCook" to commit "Slashdor Suicide".

  23. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by lorinc · · Score: 2

    This is the top 5 market cap according to wikipedia:

    1. Apple (1091B)
    2. Amazon (976B)
    3. Microsoft (877B)
    4. Alphabet (839B)
    5. Berkshire Hathaway (523B)

    When you realize none of these companies have heavy industries, that's just crazy. Even Apple that sells products does not have any factory. All of their money is made without owning much actual physical matter. How come does a website has more value than, for example, a plane factory? You're right, the global economy is just as meaningful as karma points on the internet.

  24. Re:Fuck Micro$oft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything M$ does is bad because they do it badly... I don't see you arguing that point....

  25. I have faith by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 2

    Once the leadership at Microsoft green lights the plan to make Windows a subscription only service coupled with the fact that they can't seem to get a software update right to save their f*****g life, that stock will collapse so hard it will create a singularity.

    Apple will likely fall off a cliff as well, ( just not as quickly ) due to the fact that innovation doesn't appear to be in their interests any longer and they have far too many competitors in an already saturated smart phone market.

    1. Re:I have faith by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has been brilliant in diversifying their income streams. Azure and business cloud services, Office and business software, and personal computing such as the Surface and XBox each got about a third of revenue. Windows OEM sales were actually up! So even if Windows stumbles, well, what, are you going to see Linux finally reach the desktop in 2019? I wouldn't bet on it, buddy.

      https://venturebeat.com/2018/0...

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    2. Re:I have faith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows has already gone subscription for their business offerings. I am currently on Office 365 subscription, but this includes everything Office related. We also use MS SharePoint an OneDrive which are integrated into Office 365. It all just works together.

      I don't know what people think is going on in the business world, but there are NO alternatives to Microsoft. Sure you can find MacOS in offices, but Windows is at 90% for business productivity applications.

      Stock evaluation does not really mean much. Blackberry still had 79 million users when their evaluation nose dived. The Value of the stock is not really the value of the company, at least not if they are still making money.

      A company like Apple, which arguably is 'to big to fail', is exactly the kind of company that could still be making billions, but could see their stock values drop. It's technically happening in small numbers, but nothing remotely catastrophic.

      Microsoft definitely has the edge in diversification. When your Cash Cow is the iPhone, and you can't wring anymore profit from it, you better be working harder then hard to find alternative cash flow.

       

  26. Re:Fuck Micro$oft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The spyware and ad-centric experience that is Windows 10 alone is enough to catalog Microsoft as a really evil company.

  27. I question Apple not having much physical matter by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Apple probably has very large amounts of actual matter that they technically own - at least in terms of materials.

    Not to mention Apple has a huge real estate holding at this point due to store locations.

    At some point I heard they were planning to build a fab even, though have not heard much about that since.

    Considering Apple's death is mostly from physical products I think they should be looked at almost the same as a company that owns more factories than they do, Apple is reliant on physical production.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  28. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of their money is made without owning much actual physical matter.

    Because defining what to build and how to build it is more valuable than actually just following those instructions.

    How come does a website has more value than, for example, a plane factory?

    I don't know about a website but in terms of a plane factory the expense is in design, engineering and the materials, the labor of putting it together in a factory is much less.

  29. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you mean you just can't understand why Foxconn isn't able to simply kick Apple to the curb and produce its own smartphone and own the market? You really don't know?

  30. Re:Everything is Made up and the Points Don't Matt by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Berkshire owns lots of manufacturing; Buffet buys stable, cash-generating companies and that includes quite a few manufacturing companies.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  31. Typical by garote · · Score: 1

    Computer geeks understand websites, and make money. Therefore the profitability of, say, Amazon, must be measured by its website.

    Do you have any idea how complicated and far-reaching Amazon's shipping, warehousing, tracking, and packing infrastructure is?

    Computer geeks understand software. Therefore the profitability of Apple must be measured by its software.

    Do you have any idea how involved Apple is in the manufacturing process of its products? Any idea how involved it is in the sale of its products - training its own staff at its own brick-and-mortar stores?

  32. Also! by garote · · Score: 1

    Also the earth will eventually tumble into the sun! Or get eaten by it, depending on your point of view.

    You heard it here first!