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Lenovo Finally Pays $7.3 M Fine Over Invasive 2014 'Superfish' Adware Pre-Installations (softpedia.com)

Leonovo will add $7.3 million into a $1M fund settling a class action lawsuit over their undisclosed pre-installation of Superfish's targeting adware on 28 different laptop models in 2014.

Within one year the U.S. Department of Homeland Security had warned that the adware made laptops vulnerable to SSL spoofing, allowing the reading of encrypted web traffic and the redirecting of traffic from official websites to spoofs, while according to Bloomberg the original software itself also "could access customer Social Security numbers, financial data, and sensitive heath information, the court said."

An anonymous reader quotes Softpedia: According to a "SuperFish Vulnerability" advisory published by Lenovo on their support website following the discovery of the pre-installed software by consumers, the VisualDiscovery comparison search engine software was designed to work in the background, intercepting HTTP(S) traffic with the help of a self-signed root certificate that allowed it to decrypt and monitor all traffic, encrypted or not.... "VisualDiscovery was installed on nearly 800,000 Lenovo laptops sold in the United States between September 1, 2014 and February 28, 2015," also states the settlement agreement. "On January 18, 2015, in response to mounting complaints about the effects of VisualDiscovery, Lenovo instructed Superfish to turn it off at the server level...."

Out of the 800,000 who bought the laptops that came with VisualDiscovery pre-installed, the 500,000 ones who registered their devices with Lenovo or bought them from retailers such as Best Buy and Amazon will be contacted directly by the Chinese company and informed about the settlement agreement. The rest of the customers who cannot be reached straightaway will be targeted by Lenovo using multiple online advertising platforms, from Google to Twitter and Facebook.

A separate settlement with the FTC in 2017 was criticized for its failure to fine Lenovo -- though it did require the company to get affirmative consent for any future adware programs, plus regular third-party audits of its bundled software for the next 20 years.

79 comments

  1. HIgh art by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

    I see /. is approaching high art: "The rest of the customers who cannot be reached straightaway will be targeted by Lenovo using multiple online advertising platforms"

  2. What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or are those obsolete in the Trump era?

    1. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt anyone is guilty of a crime. Someone made either a dumb or honest mistake and it snowballed causing monetary damages to people, which sounds like they will be paid in - wow - honest to goodness greenbacks !

    2. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, it could be a ploy or a tactic to gain some kind of concession in an indirect way. I doubt that would work

    3. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I doubt anyone is guilty of a crime." People went to prison already... oh, you mean with LENOVO. Well, no, it was a crime. Whether "individuals" are held responsible is more corporate/international law cruft than not...

    4. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      7.3 billion is a slap on the wrist for them.

    5. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      If you meant the 7.3 *million* they were actually fined, that would probably be the case, yes.

      7.3 billion, on the other hand, would sting quite a bit- even for a company the size of Lenovo...!

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    6. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean like how Aaron Schwartz was facing 35 years for putting laptops in university closets so he could publish public domain works?

      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/03/3-months-or-35-years-understanding-cfaa-sentencing-part-1-why-maximums-matter

      Surely abusing millions of customers and doing so in the most irresponsible way possible is worse than that.

    7. Re:What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the spirit of petty politics where every failure of a current political factor has to be compared with another:

      I don't recall the fraudsters who called themselves bankers apologizing for profiting from tons of bad debt. If I recall they were quite happy to take credit for all the social good they were doing by giving loans to poor minorities who were only dis-included previously because america is racist. Oh but nobody bothered to give said minorities a raise so they all defaulted on those noble loans and got their credit ruined in the process.

      Current-era politics aside there's just a class of people who will never be held to account for their failings short of vigilante justice. There's a reason said concept has been tarnished so much in the last hundred years.

    8. Re: What about an admission of guilt and apology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most blacks are poorer and most defaulted mortgages were on second homes intended for rent or flipping. Erego most defaults were not by blacks or other poor people, but by middle class wannabe rich people who watched too much hgtv.

      P.S. You had two years with it, but that white hood is out of fashion now. Enjoy your potato.

  3. Wow! Imagine Microsoft's fine!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Forcing to install an adware OS even when people refused. That's bad!

    Forcing the installation of unwanted adware apps. That's also bad!

    1. Re: Wow! Imagine Microsoft's fine!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft? What did they do except provide what was requested by Lenovo? They had the same request from Apple albeit for completely different reasons

    2. Re: Wow! Imagine Microsoft's fine!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their adware is called windows 10

  4. a cultural difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once heard an older person say "Don't trust a chinaman! They're dishonest!".

    No.

    It's not that. It's a different culture. If something is "OK", and you adhere to that standard, does that make you immoral? Certainly not!

    For example, bribery is typical in China. Everyone, every-freakin-one does it. It's essentially part of one's salary, in some positions.

    Well, this is along those lines. In China, this sort of thing is 'just normal', like any other form of 'ripping people off', it's far more caveat emptor than in the West -- which also has that problem! Just not to the same degree.

    For example? The legal framework. We've had hundreds of years of common-law decisions, a vast history of increasing consumer protections both via court decisions and via legislation, that screams "DO NOT DO THIS!".

    Frankly, two things need to happen:

    1) Never buy directly from China

    2) The person that imports a product from China? The corporation that does the actual import? Needs to be 100% responsible for issues such as this.

    3) Because of what will happen in #2, there probably needs to be foreign ownership restrictions in domestic corps that resell, *or* some form of bond placed to ensure that it is easy to fine.

    Because you know what?

    Everything from China is like this. And even if it isn't outright evil like this case, it's just plain *CRAP*.

    Of course, option #4 is that China adopts a pro-consumer legislative framework very similar to the West... but I don't think that will happen.

    1. Re:a cultural difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Don't trust a chinaman! They're dishonest!".

      -More valid than not? Chinese cheater/liar culture is legendary, it puts even Republicans to shame.

    2. Re: a cultural difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That makes sense to me. It will be a long time before Chinese companies adhere to US standards from the get go. EU and US (or wherever) need to cooperatively oversee these kinds of transactions

    3. Re: a cultural difference by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      The "pro-consumer framework", at least in the US, has been completely run over and disregarded in the digital age. Funnily enough the driving forces behind that are big technology companies and the idea that "money makes it right." Wow, just like China!

      But I digress. Let us fixate on how innately terrible the Chinese are. That way we don't have to deal with the difficult task of self-improvement.

    4. Re: a cultural difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair to the racists, most of what passes as minimal QA in China is deemed criminal negligence here in the US. That's why anyone making stuff in the US that forges a UL listing goes to jail if caught, but if it is from China, we shrug our shoulders and just think it figures.

      China is capable of making things to a high spec. They will absolutely not do so unless you have your own QA triple checking it. Your tools will also be running 24/7, even if you only run the plant half time. The rest go out the back door and undercut you. One exception... If they want to make a copy of your tooling. Then they will go out the back door too of needed for a day or two.

  5. $7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by psychic_bacon · · Score: 2

    7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers doesn't leave much room for attorneys' fees, right?

    1. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by bobstreo · · Score: 2

      7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers doesn't leave much room for attorneys' fees, right?

      LOL, as if anyone but the lawyers get any of the money. It will cost more to track down and notify each impacted customer than anyone will ever receive.

    2. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To quote a modern day philosopher "It's not about money; it's about sending a message"

    3. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      Thank you, Anonymous, if that's your REAL name. What do bungling philosophers know, anyway?

    4. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by SirAstral · · Score: 2

      Yes, we all got the message.

      It's okay to screw people over if you are willing to pay the price. Governments think of these things in the terms of compensation.

      It would be better if the citizens thought of these things in the terms... we no longer buy from companies that are caught doing this so they go out of business and other businesses are not likely try this crap or risk losing their customers.

      So if it's about sending a message... we sure sent the wrong one!

    5. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the guy arguing they should be fined half as much because people bought them, so... maybe you're the wrong person to be incorrectly gloating here?

    6. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I stopped participating in these class action things. In only 10 years you'll get 1/8 of a cent for losing all your data from some evil company doing evil shit.

    7. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      That would be because you are intentionally misconstruing what I am saying.

      Let me help you out. There are people that harmed themselves, it is only my opinion is that the fine should have been cut in half, though I certainly don't have any problem with Lenovo losing all of that cash either.

      My other opinion is that people should stop buying Lenovo entirely so that they go completely out of business as punishment for doing what they did and as a warning to other businesses that do the same.

      You see, I care about what is right and proper. It is NOT right and proper for lawyers to get loads of cash like this though they definitely deserve to be compensated for their efforts. Additionally, these people deserved a total refund plus damages for those that purchase them in ignorance. Those that purchased after certain date deserve NOTHING because there is a reasonable expectation that they should know public and readily available information and cannot claim ignorance. The case is civil so preponderance is all that is necessary not proof beyond shadow of doubt despite what many morons think.

      And why do you think I am gloating? What is there to gloat about here?

    8. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ", it is only my opinion is that the fine should have been cut in half, " - Well that's the first time you've admitted that, and sorry, they aren't going to.

      Your argument is stupid and has nothing to do with the law in question EXCEPT as a consideration for mitigating damages as decided by the court.

      They declined to halve the fine. So I don't see why you wasted hours trying to imagine it had to be that way, it doesn't. Wrong. Legally wrong.

      "Prove" is not necessarily "prove beyond reasonable doubt" obviously and you disingenuously tried to correct someone saying you failed to prove your case.

      K
      thx
      BAI

    9. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You see, I care about what is right and proper. It is NOT right and proper for lawyers to get loads of cash like this though they definitely deserve to be compensated for their efforts. "

      Now YOU see, I don't care about what you think is right and proper. Neither does the law. I care about what is the law, now, as it is, as you could expect it, as we were debating what is, not what YOU WANT PERSONALLY.

      If you want less compensation for the legal parties of class action lawsuits THAT IS JUST TOO DAMN MOTHERFUCKING BAD FOR YOU. Capiche? Argument over.

      K
      thx
      Bai

    10. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Customers might, if they're lucky, receive 10c each. All the rest will be sponged up by lawyers and administration costs.

    11. Re:$7.3 million divided by 800,000 customers by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You could always get off your lazy entitled ass and hire your own damn attorney. Of course, that would also mean you would have to shoulder the cost of the lawsuit and assume all of the risk if you lose. Which doesn't happen with class action lawsuits - still sure you want to shit all over them?

  6. just imagine the fines... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if the chinese government (it owns part of lenovo, as well as many others.. plus dictates what they and other chinese companies, without government investment, do) was nailed for all the nasties they put in hardware and software.

  7. Should be cut in 1/2 by SirAstral · · Score: 1

    The fine should be cut in 1/2. I told a few customers one day in Best Buy that Lenovo was installing this trash on systems as well as using the mainboard to store this trash.

    They still bought the things. There is a certain point where you can start blaming the so-called "victims" for being stupid.

    I no longer feel sorry for anyone that buys lenovo, nintento, Sony, or from any other business that felt that screwing customers over was OKAY and good practice. I wish people understood that boycotts are effective, but since they are too lazy to participate in the economy properly I no longer feel sorry for them when they get screwed by big business.

    1. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "They still bought the things" - does not make Lenovo any less responsible though, so your proposed defense of them (cutting the fine in half!?) is very, very odd and victim-blaming in a sense. Not a great look.

    2. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      Most importantly Lenovo stopped everything immediately in this case and gave consumers back their privacy and control. Great that they are paying something. In some cases people literally did lose money for various reasons. Real people.

    3. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NOT TRUE, there were SEVERAL MONTHS where they pretended nothing was wrong and this fine is several YEARS well after the fact. Stop apologizing falsely.

    4. Re: Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people who buy thinkpads format the drive and install GNU/Linux first thing. Practically nobody was impacted by this.

    5. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      At a certain point, people are responsible for their own actions and poor choices. It isn't victim blaming if you tell someone that they have cancer because they spent their entire life smoking cigarettes.

    6. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lenovo continued to ship Superfish-bugged computers. He's saying cut their fine in half because people bought them. Literally verbatim.

    7. Re: Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Many" morons who lie on the internet use "most" when they mean "some unknown number" instead, it's a problem in their lives that they either fix, or they go around looking stupid forever.

      Obviously people WERE affected, so you can suck Putin's dick and call it vanilla ice cream but that doesn't make it so. Go hang out with Luckyo and eat some delicious plastic.

    8. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      Wow... I guess if you are going to blatantly lie, make the lie a whopper.

      Read what I posted again.

      I said people were told that malware was present yet they still purchased them... when people "knowingly and voluntarily" buys a product they "legally" accepted something called "assumption of risk". This means they LOST their right "legally" to bitch about being spied on!

    9. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1

      When it comes to laptops, there's not as much of a choice. If a buyer needs a laptop, it's unlikely that they'll build their own, and thus they have to rely on brand-name equipment.

      Around that time, the major brands had pre-installed garbage that slows down computers or otherwise send telemetry. The question is by how much, rather than which ones.

    10. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the question is which ones can you definitively prove were deliberately or incompetently allowing their customers to be spied on, why, how, and who profited, and who should be due compensation for that.

      Sony was dinged for Sony's fails. Dell was dinged for Dell's fails. Lenovo was dinged for Lenovo's fail. That's the answer.

    11. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      "No, the question is which ones can you definitively prove.."

      This is a class action lawsuit, a preponderance of evidence is what is required NOT definitive proof. How many of you morons are going to fill up the internet with your moronic ignorance? You must be one of those Sunday armchair lawyers that believes everything they see on TV and thinks they know far more than they do.

      There is literally and internet full of people that DO KNOW that can help you. Go and listen to them and read some things!

    12. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " So NO I don't have to prove anything " = you gave up, I accepted your logical surrender and admission you were wrong. It's too bad you couldn't admit that earlier, for your credibility's sake ongoing.

      The fact is Lenovo was fined appropriately and your efforts to halve that based on a sub-legal argument are fruitless. QED, enjoy reality anytime, we'll be here when you decide to join us.

      Lawyers have been consulted, your pseudo-argument lost big. Sorry. You didn't have to ride your ego on this point, that's true. A mistake you aren't quick to correct, but corrected you stand. The system works.

      The fine is paid. Your anecdotal arguments do not stand up, and that's why your compulsion to advocate for halving their fine on a sub-legal BS argument don't do anything. You lose, bitch.

      Enjoy reality when you get here though. It'll be waiting when/if you pass the bar too. (hehe)

    13. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      I don't have to pass the bar, I provided proof already with a link to an actual lawyer, why do you keep ignoring that? Scared to admit you are wrong?

    14. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They still bought the things. There is a certain point where you can start blaming the so-called "victims" for being stupid.

      That's the funny thing about lawsuits and the law in general. Even if the victim is to blame for hurting themselves because they should have known better, the party who malicious and/or illegal in certain behavior will often be still held substantially or wholly financial responsible for the damage. What I question is, why do you believe that lawyers on the defense didn't argue the point or the judge/jury didn't consider this in the resulting fine such that your opinion as stated has relevance?

    15. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by epine · · Score: 1

      The fine should be cut in 1/2. I told a few customers one day in Best Buy that Lenovo was installing this trash on systems as well as using the mainboard to store this trash.

      Your logic is circular. You think they should have trusted "some guy" spouting an opinion, who turns out to be so rational, he's insisting they should have trusted "some guy" spouting an opinion, years later ...

      Moreover, your 15-second anecdotal interaction warrants a 50% revision in how the world turns.

      No idea why Joe Random Consumer might not trust your demeanor on first glace.

    16. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lawyers have been consulted, your pseudo-argument lost big. Sorry. You didn't have to ride your ego on this point, that's true. A mistake you aren't quick to correct, but corrected you stand.

      It is weird though now that you mention it that you for the life of yourself can't admit that you ARE wrong, as evidenced by them paying the full fine and not half as you recommended being a legal whiz, lol.

      Derp. Check in with reality sometime miss, you might even like it who knows? kthxbai you lost.

    17. Re: Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assumption of risk does not mean assumption of risk that the other party is acting in a malfeasant manner.

    18. Re:Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're still installing malware on new computers and it tracks people, just not quite as irresponsibly as with the open keys of "superfish." They're even still contracting with the same software developers who did this, just rebranded the software as being made by lenovo so it's harder to recognize at a cursory glance.

    19. Re: Should be cut in 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cars and Bullets are dangerous SirAsstral. So if you get shot, or run over, it's sort of your own fault, because I warned you. If you are not in a kelvar padded human sized hamster ball all the time... It's your own fault. Right?

      Or are you a hypocrite with double standards?
      Rhetorical question.

  8. Umm... reinstall? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would anyone buy a consumer PC and NOT re-install the OS from scratch?

    We've seen time after time that you cannot trust the mfg-installed OS. The only sane approach is to buy the hardware, and install your own OS from scratch after a reformat.

    The same is now true of smartphones. Trusting the shitware delivered on the device is idiotic.

    1. Re:Umm... reinstall? by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      People are clueless about how to do that. Seriously how many people do you think actually have a clue how to reinstall an OS on a PC.

    2. Re:Umm... reinstall? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are not bricks. They are capable of learning things they do not already know. Nobody is born knowing how to walk. Nobody is born knowing how to read. Nobody is born knowing how to reinstall an OS. All can be learned, and the last of those is far easier than the first two.

    3. Re:Umm... reinstall? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but clueless people don't pay extra to get lenovo hardware quality either.

    4. Re:Umm... reinstall? by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

      Capable sure, but most non-computer savvy peeps I know, and I know a lot, don't have a freaking clue on how computers work, let alone know how to or want to learn more them other then click on an icon and go to a program or a website and for many of them even that is pushing their limits. Everyone's brains are wired differently. Some are wired to be good at certain things and others are wired to be shit at nearly everything. So assuming others can do something just because you think they should be able to is extremely naive and lacks wisdom which is on par with the ignorance of most people's concept of computers.

  9. And the victims in this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, you may have fined Lenovo, but what about the people who had that crap on their machine? What do they get? The middle finger.

  10. Actually I didn't lie, you did. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I said people were told that malware was present yet they still purchased them." -You're asserting everyone who bought them was told that. You have yet to prove that. It's obviously not the case.

    "when people "knowingly and voluntarily" buys a product they "legally" accepted something called "assumption of risk". -Sure, but there are still laws. They don't go away because of assumed risk generalizations.

    "This means they LOST their right "legally" to bitch about being spied on!" = Bullshit, legally. Unless they formally waived those rights in a legal contract, which they didn't, and that contract would have to be upheld.

    Anyhow you can say I'm lying but you are advocating above to halve the court fine based on a fallacious sub-legal argument, so yeah.

    1. Re:Actually I didn't lie, you did. by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      "You're asserting everyone who bought them was told that. You have yet to prove that. It's obviously not the case."

      You have two problems.
      #1. You are assuming that I can somehow PROVE that my story is correct in any meaningful way. I am not in the habit of taking video evidence of people not following my advice. So NO I don't have to prove anything, the comment is anecdotal. Do you automatically believe people when they say they were assaulted? It's the same thing... anecdotal unless some evidence supporting the claims are presented. A busted nose is not good enough.

      #2. People bought items from Best Buy, as in Best Buy was still selling these systems POST MEDIA STORM and still failed to notify customers that malware was KNOWN to be present upon the systems involved. Let me ask you this, if your local grocer was selling products known to contain salmonella would you want to sue them if they didn't pull that stock or warn you? Product sellers do have some incumbent responsibility here. This means that there is some culpability on Best Buy's behalf legally if someone presses the issue.

      ""when people "knowingly and voluntarily" buys a product they "legally" accepted something called "assumption of risk". -Sure, but there are still laws. They don't go away because of assumed risk generalizations."

      You do know that once the "specifics" are out, that it is no longer "assumed risk generalizations" right? If you are going to argue your side you need to be more intelligent about it. The problem is specific in this case NOT general. When specific information is provide and you ACT upon that information POST reception you are "legally" considered informed! This means you LEGALLY accept the transfer of risk because you are informed.

      Yes, people that did not know deserve compensation, but lets be honest... that only works for so long. Or do you think that it is okay for everyone to be walking around like mindless zombies trusting everything at face value?

      "Anyhow you can say I'm lying but you are advocating above to halve the court fine based on a fallacious sub-legal argument, so yeah."

      Go and talk to a lawyer, they argues this stuff all day long! You can even go and listen to one on youtube called Legal Eagle say the same thing.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      So if you disagree with a REAL lawyer there is your chance to challenge one!

    2. Re:Actually I didn't lie, you did. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " So NO I don't have to prove anything " = you give up, I accept your logical surrender and admission you were wrong. It's too bad you couldn't admit that earlier, for your credibility's sake ongoing.

      The fact is Lenovo was fined appropriately and your efforts to halve that based on a sub-legal argument are fruitless. QED, enjoy reality anytime, we'll be here when you decide to join us.

      Lawyers have been consulted, your pseudo-argument lost big. Sorry. You didn't have to ride your ego on this point, that's true. A mistake you aren't quick to correct, but corrected you stand. The system works.

      The fine is paid.

    3. Re:Actually I didn't lie, you did. by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      Don't you know the different between, anecdotal, facts, evidence, and opinions? I guess not so let me break this down.

      Me saying it should be 1/2 is my opinion.
      Me saying that people bought them after me telling them they were loaded with malware was anecdotal.
      Me not proving this to you means nothing, and my desire to not make any efforts to prove it are not tantamount to surrender either, it just means me proving anything to YOU is not worth the time or effort. I don't think you would be intellectually honest enough.

      The fact that you are trying to construe my statements means you are the one without credibility.

      "Lawyers have been consulted, your pseudo-argument lost big"

      You are a titanic moron. You said that "...you are advocating above to halve the court fine based on a fallacious sub-legal argument, so yeah.""

      The argument is not sub-legal. Whether that argument was successful in this case, if used, has ZERO bearing on this. But because you are a moron you cannot tell the difference. There have been more than enough cases where this "sub-legal" argument won a case. How are you not able to figure this out?

      You were told to check with a layer to find out if the argument was valid, NOT if this argument applied to this case specifically. I am sure you know of that saying... better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt? That is you. You have wasted enough effort setting up straw-man after straw-man here to put me on the defensive.

    4. Re:Actually I didn't lie, you did. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " So NO I don't have to prove anything " = you give up, I accept your logical surrender and admission you were wrong. It's too bad you couldn't admit that earlier, for your credibility's sake ongoing.

      The fact is Lenovo was fined appropriately and your efforts to halve that based on a sub-legal argument are fruitless. QED, enjoy reality anytime, we'll be here when you decide to join us.

      Lawyers have been consulted, your pseudo-argument lost big. Sorry. You didn't have to ride your ego on this point, that's true. A mistake you aren't quick to correct, but corrected you stand.

      The system works. The fine is paid. Your entire argument was anecdotal, and now it doesn't even matter. Kthxbai

    5. Re:Actually I didn't lie, you did. by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      Lol, it is shocking how much of a moron you are, but not surprising.

      "The fact is Lenovo was fined appropriately" that is a statement of opinion. Prove Lenovo was fine appropriately. But you can't. no one can because what is appropriate is a matter of opinion, it has always been, hell it's not even in dispute and court rulings are often written as such "in the opinion of this court" for example.

      "and your efforts to halve that" How does a post on Slashdot constitute 'effort' in this setting? I did not file an amicus curiae and neither am I a witness for either side. I am just offering my opinion. You need to take a chill pill or something.

      "based on a sub-legal argument" I have already proven that I am correct with a link to a real laywer. You are free to find a layer to rebut the lawyer in the link I claimed.

      Your attempts to gaslight me are humorous though. A moron that can't even get simple facts straight trying to gaslight someone is always a hoot!

  11. admit when you're wrong, Sir Astral? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you not man enough to admit when you're wrong, Sir Astral?

    1. Re:admit when you're wrong, Sir Astral? by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      The assumption that I am a man huh? I am a man so your assumption is correct. I am definitely willing to admit when I am wrong. Now, tell me specifically what you think I am wrong about, and I will review your claim that tell you.

      If I am wrong I will admit it, if I made a mistake that created confusion, I will correct what I meant. If I am not wrong, I will attempt to show you where YOU are mistaken.

      Your turn! Show me where I am wrong.

    2. Re:admit when you're wrong, Sir Astral? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Different AC)

      Hate to break in on this lovely conversation, lets take a quick ethical angle on this. Even if customers/consumers were informed of the malware, is it right to assume that they have the appropriate knowledge and skill level to make an informed decision from that information? While here on /. I'd assume that there would be (at least 20ish years ago), is that truly the case today?

    3. Re:admit when you're wrong, Sir Astral? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " So NO I don't have to prove anything " = you gave up, I accepted your logical surrender and admission you were wrong. It's too bad you couldn't admit that earlier, for your credibility's sake ongoing.

      Lawyers have been consulted, your pseudo-argument lost big. Sorry. You didn't have to ride your ego on this point, that's true. A mistake you aren't quick to correct, but corrected you stand.

      The fact is Lenovo was fined appropriately and your efforts to halve that based on a sub-legal argument are fruitless. QED, enjoy reality anytime, we'll be here when you decide to join us.

      The system works. The fine is paid. Your entire argument was anecdotal, and now it doesn't even matter. Meanwhile you've literally wasted hours and accomplished nothing. I win, kthxbai

      Nobody asked nor cares what gender you are, lol. Get help with admitting when you're wrong, crazy bitch! That will improve your life 1000%.

  12. System certs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, does Google still use system-provided certificates in Windows versions of Chrome? :P

  13. Arguing on the internet by raymorris · · Score: 1

    At some point, this ancient wisdom comes into play:

    Arguing on the internet is like the special Olympics. Even if you win ...

    He's clearly not listening. Go hug someone or whatever because you're wasting your time here.

  14. Ray Morris, the nazi propaganda pusher, hi.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12520486&cid=57184660 - Want to tell us why you pushed Nazi propaganda Ray?

  15. how to hack by AnaGeorgia · · Score: 1

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  16. blow out and reinstall by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    Usually first thing I do with a laptop, is set it up, then pull and shelf the HDD/SDD until the warranty period ends. I install a blank drive, set it up how I want. Granted, if the bug is embedded in the bios or something, can't really do anything about that, but for the most part, that should clean it out, not to mention getting rid of the bloat.

    1. Re:blow out and reinstall by theurge14 · · Score: 1

      Or you could just not buy it from a company that loads adware.

    2. Re:blow out and reinstall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have one of the Lenovo laptops affected and it would reinstall the adware itself, even with a different image. Why should I have to shelf the HDD/SSD? That's ridicilous. I won't get cash back from Lenovo, because I'm European.

  17. A whole $7m? by schitso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Surely this devastating blow to their financial security will serve as a deterrent for other companies... right? What's that? Their gross profit over the last 10 years has averaged in the hundreds of millions, and this fine serves no other purpose than to demonstrate that it's a more fiscally-viable option to fuck over your customer and then pay the fine later? Color me shocked...

    1. Re:A whole $7m? by Solandri · · Score: 2

      That was my initial reaction. But a little research turned up that Lenovo only made about $250k from Superfish. So the condition that the fine greatly exceeds the profit has been met. Though I would've added a stipulation that in addition to the fine, they have to reimburse users for any expenses they incurred due to security breaches caused by Superfish-related vulnerabilities.

    2. Re:A whole $7m? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Eh. As for penalizing this specific instance, sure that ration is okay - as far as deterring future similar examples, the fine is still missing a few zeros.

  18. completely UNABLE to admit it lol. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's "shocking" is the lengths of time you'll waste in stoic defense of being wrong and completely UNABLE to admit it lol.

  19. Proprietary software is always unwise. by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    Not dealing in (whether commercially or gratis) proprietary software is always wise. $7,300,000/800,000 people is almost $9.13/person. Nobody who can afford a modern Lenovo computer will find $9.13 very rewarding and Lenovo won't find $7.3M a challenge to pay.

    But the structure of proprietary software (being hidden from the user who is legally prohibited from inspecting or editing the software and often prohibited from sharing the software as well) keeps users ignorant of the software they run. Since there's a lot of proprietary malware out there and we can't tell which proprietary software is malware, we are wise to avoid it all. Ethically, all proprietary software operates not in the user's interests. Users aren't well served by software running on their computers which don't respect their software freedom. This is increasingly becoming a health/life or death concern (see a recent story about a CPAP machine hacker, for instance) and have always been an a concern for those motivated by how we ought to treat other people (perhaps the most important consideration we can make in life).