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FCC To Probe Whether Carriers Gave Inaccurate Broadband Coverage Data (zdnet.com)

The FCC is launching an investigation into whether one or more major carriers gave the agency inaccurate maps of their broadband coverage, violating the rules of an initiative that provides subsidies for rural coverage. ZDNet reports: The initiative, called the Mobility Fund Phase II program "can play a key role in extending high-speed Internet access to rural areas across America," he continued. "In order to reach those areas, it's critical that we know where access is and where it is not."

The initiative is reallocating $4.5 billion in previously-approved funding to bring high-speed mobile broadband service to rural Americans over the course of 10 years. The agency is using a competitive reverse auction to distribute the funds to private providers. To determine eligibility, mobile providers were required to submit current, standardized coverage data.

57 comments

  1. Easy way to tell by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    1) Get a Magic 8-ball.
    2) Remove the inside octagonal die.
    3) Paint on every surface "All signs point to YES".
    4) Re-insert, and shake for answer.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free money. Of course there is an incentive.
      More effective would be to publish the reports and offer the public a reward for incorrect notifications. The reward would be rebated by said telcos to send the message makeup will not be tolerated.

    2. Re: Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this is like how apple pulled out of the EU back in the 1980s.

      There are parties with something to gain and parties with nothing to gain.

      You can tell the difference because deep down you hear those three little words...

    3. Re: Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blah blah blah

    4. Re: Easy way to tell by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      Dang! You had me going there for a minute! :)

    5. Re:Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The magic 8-ball that Ajit Pai will use is going to be rigged the other way, in favor of the carriers. They might as well pay his salary.

    6. Re: Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This will only hurt for a little while,
      Iâ(TM)ll never put the head of it in,
      I promise that I never will come in your mouth

    7. Re: Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod blah blah blah up, that was classic timing. Those three little words. Damn, Trump ALSO gets positively connected to Russia simultaneously. Awesome synergy, I love it.

    8. Re:Easy way to tell by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      In theory yes, in practice I doubt it. Remember, this is Ajit Pai's FCC, not the FCC of old, their task will be to figure out how the carriers' positions can be interpreted so that no action is required, not to slap the carriers upside the head for lying to them.

    9. Re: Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you never put the head in, how are you getting in?

    10. Re: Easy way to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Call their own customer service about setting up a new connection. Watch as they fail to send a guy out three times because he lies about you being home at the time then finally can't set up service because there's no cable lines going anywhere near your house, but somehow the house next door has service anyway but they have no knowledge about that or any clue how to connect your house that doesn't require running 1000 feet of fiber at over $10k cost to you.

  2. Telcos will always lie by WCMI92 · · Score: 1

    There are the three laws of telcoms:

    They will:

    1. Overpromise
    2. Underdeliver
    3. Overcharge

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
    1. Re:Telcos will always lie by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      Why just telcos?

      All companies lie when they have an agenda.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Telcos will always lie by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Companies are made of people. Companies lie if people lie. I work for a company that doesn't lie. That's because people like me don't lie, and we don't allow people around us to lie.

      The telcos lied. So lets find the people who lied and hold them personally accountable for their lies. None of this "fine the corporation" stuff. And not all the liars are executives.

    3. Re:Telcos will always lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why just telcos?

      All companies lie when they have an agenda.

      All companies have an agenda too. It's to make more money by cutting costs and raising prices every year.

    4. Re:Telcos will always lie by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      What is next? Any guesses?

    5. Re:Telcos will always lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. If you ask a company a question where the answer reveals their competitive advantage...well...they will always overstate themselves. By the way I have a bridge to sell you, and I know I make the best bridges ever. I know because I say so.

      But sure, let's regulate telling the truth. I know the American government NEVER lies.

    6. Re: Telcos will always lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The American government lies far less than American companies do, many of which have employees that go on the work in government.

      Bad government officials can get voted out for being corrupt. Bad business employees aren't on so short of a leash.

    7. Re:Telcos will always lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So lets find the people who lied and hold them personally accountable for their lies. None of this "fine the corporation" stuff. And not all the liars are executives.

      You should really read the side-poster's comment. The point of fining companies is precisely that there are plenty of companies that are top down crooked because executives do run companies that way. It doesn't mean every executive lies. It doesn't mean every peon at the bottom lies.

      Fining companies is the only realistic method to force a company as a whole to change. That doesn't exclude punishing individuals, but adequately engaging in justice by charging and convicting hundreds of individuals is almost always going to be incomplete. Companies that engage in systemic fraud should be punished either with fines or be totally shutdown. The fact that the government refuses to do either to companies or to people in companies is a large part of the corruption issue in America.

  3. Does it show nascar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh it's easy - anyplace that votes Trump en-masse ,doesn't need the net as they lower the average iq of merica.

  4. Based on the accuracy of their cellular coverage m by Mspangler · · Score: 1

    I don't even have to look at the broadband maps to tell you they are hopelessly optimistic.

  5. Re:Based on the accuracy of their cellular coverag by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    I don't even have to look at the broadband maps to tell you they are hopelessly optimistic.

    If you zoom out far enough in coverage maps, everything is fine. There is a limit on how far you can zoom in though.

    As to why the FCC accepted and didn't verify the accuracy of the "providers" data, that is a question some congressional investigatory body should dig into.

    Is there any way I can get a chunk of the 4.5 billion available for rural broadband? I promise to do just as well as any existing corporate provider has done thus-far.

  6. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, they did. Everyone knows this.

    Next, they'll tell me I don't really have 4G LTE everywhere in my state.

  7. Re:Based on the accuracy of their cellular coverag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last map I saw showed most of Seattle had broadband coverage. We all know that is a lie since the city doesn't force Comcast to provide service to their entire monopoly area. Too many people here are still stuck with dial-up or ISDN with per minute charges.

  8. Re:Trump wants faster Internet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, but the Internet flourished despite Clinton's and Obama's attempts to kill it. Both pushed for higher universal service taxes, but reduced the requirements to spend that money on upgrades.

  9. Re:Based on the accuracy of their cellular coverag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt you saw that since so little of the Seattle city limits has broadband.

  10. Re:Based on the accuracy of their cellular coverag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But most cities aren't nearly as anti-Internet as Seattle that has the wife of a Microsoft executive on the city council.

  11. "whether one or more major carriers" by fred911 · · Score: 1

    I bet for the later.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  12. gave the agency inaccurate maps? by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

    Of _course_ not. Inaccurate you say? They're completely accurate. Oh sorry, but they're some old ones I grabbed by mistake. Here's one that's a month newer, that should be good enough to get by, right? (Hmph, I didn't realize we had a broadband customer back in the 1900s.)

    If not, please let us know and we'll keep feeding you an ever-so-slightly-updated map Every Single Time until you finally accept one. Oh, and if your request gets lost in the email -- well that just happens occasionally, doesn't it?

    --
    If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
  13. I fire liars on the spot by raymorris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My companies had a very simple rule about lying:

    We do not lie, cheat or steal or tolerate those who do.
    (Borrowed from Texas A&M)

    One time a new employee didn't know better and told the customer there was "a hard drive problem" when actually we screwed up. I let him know that if he lied again, he'd be be immediately fired. Then I called the customer and explained that we had in fact messed up.

    So no, not "all companies" are the same, because all people are not the same. Companies do what the leaders establish as the company way.

    If the leaders of an organization use funds from the organization's charity arm primarily to fund their own travel and pay themselves a large salary for running the charity, that type of thing establishes a culture and the organization will be crooked from top to bottom. If the leaders make a habit of lying to the press, everyone in the organization will lie to each other - especially to the leaders. On the other hand, if the leader writes a personal check to buy an old computer that the company is throwing away (buying it at the appropriate garage sale price), then makes sure that $25 is properly reported for tax purposes, that sets a tone of honesty and absolute integrity for the company.

    Some people may not like to work in my companies, or work with me, because I'm strict about telling the truth, even when the truth is ugly. That's okay, they can go work for a car dealer or politician. We don't want them working in my companies.

    1. Re: I fire liars on the spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you being serious? You are egregiously niave if you think all your employees are being completely and totally honest with you in every way possible regarding your business and its practices.

      And small companies absolutely do not become gigantic corporations in the competitive marketplace in the US if they aren't cutthroat and taking advantage of their customers, their regulatory environment, investors, or all of the above.

      So that begs the question, why do you think you are any better and no one in your company lies? Do you only have a small number of employees? No regulatory oversight? No investors? No competition....?

      Yeah, Pretty much knew the answer to that before you even gave it. So the question is, is why are you trying so hard to appear otherwise? To sell the heck out of being super honest? Do you have a history of not being honest and are overcompensating for it....

    2. Re:I fire liars on the spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh please, bettercgi/strongbox employees (and you) lied all the time about support and other crap about your barely working product, stop trying to be holier than thou, GFY is filled with stories of your shit product.

    3. Re:I fire liars on the spot by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      When you refuse to use deceit, you leave yourself wide open to those who do. Why do you think successful people rely on deceit (and its cousin secrecy)? It's because it works really, really well. If nobody can know what your goals are, how can anyone oppose you?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:I fire liars on the spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think OP meant that all companies owned by shareholders, rather than individuals, eventually turn out the same. People are capable of amazingly horrible things when they're acting in groups.

    5. Re:I fire liars on the spot by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of a company I worked for way back when. I was doing internal IT work. One time, I can't remember the details now, but I screwed something up.

      So the first thing I when I realized what happened, was to notify the people who would be most immediately affected, detailing what happened, how it affected them, what I was doing to fix it, and what they should do while I'm fixing it.

      The part I remember well was when someone expressed how impressed they were with my integrity. I remember being confused, because I figured this was the least I could do because not doing so would potentially compound the damage orders of magnitude more than the original mistake did.

      I was fairly young and inexperienced then, but that plus other incidents made me feel uneasy working there, and I found another job. I found out later that the company went under because of embezzlement a couple years after I left.

      So yeah. I guess the lesson here is to be open to warning signs indicating sketchy leadership.

  14. Ha! by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    I know of exact street corners where there's 3 bars of LTE with no data, or texting or phone service. Verizon lies not just on their maps but on what they tell the damn phones to display.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re: Ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Verizon lies about call completion and call drops, too

    2. Re:Ha! by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to defend ISPs/telecoms but... it's very possible that you can have a good signal but not a good connection. The value shown on your phone comes from the RSSI, which is measured at the phone. It tells you how strongly you see the tower, but it doesn't mean the tower also sees you just as well.

      Now, of course there's a bit of handshaking so that the phone can tell the difference, but there are a lot of reasons this may not work correctly in specific circumstances. The phone could "think" there's a good connection, until you actually try to push any real data through it and suddenly it tanks. There may also be an asymmetry in the direction (e.g. you can transmit faster than you can receive). The bars you see are only an indication of how good the connection should be, based on what the phone and tower can measure about each other's signals... but it's not exact.

      It's kinda like if you measure a resistor and you say "Ok that's 1ohm, so if I put 1V on it I should get 1A through it." Except the second you actually put 1A through the resistor it heats up which means the resistance goes up and suddenly the current starts dropping (assuming in this case you are using a constant voltage supply). It doesn't mean your ohmmeter lied to you - or that Ohm's Law is wrong, it just means that the system under load behaves differently.

      The fact that you indicate it's a specific location (i.e. exact street corners) indicates that it's probably something environmental which is causing what you're seeing.

      Verizon is probably full of shit about a lot of things... but this isn't necessarily one of them.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    3. Re:Ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By value shown on the phone, are you talking bars or decibels? Both need to be logarithmic to be of any use, and AFAIK the former doesn't have any kind of standard for how they're shown, and different radios (and tower equipment) have different decibel thresholds for whether they have a good signal or a weak one. Though these days, phone resolutions are so damn high that I don't see any reason why they couldn't go from a three to five bar system to i.e. a 10 bar system to provide more granularity.

      Curious if such a mod exists for Android to do that, but it would probably need to be baked into the ROM or use a modded system partition. The OEMs already make battery indicators that granular.

  15. Re:Why should we subsidize MAGA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Probably for the same reason our ancestors make exactly the same choice with mail delivery, universal electrification and universal phone service.

  16. Re:RAY MORRIS PUSHING NAZI PROPAGANDA AFTER CORREC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    shut up apk

  17. Respect to you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Literally everyone I have ever dealt with, from individuals to large corporations has done the opposite. You appear to be one of the dying breed of people of integrity.

  18. Re:Why should we subsidize MAGA? by omnichad · · Score: 2

    This. You want perspectives to change in these areas? Give them exposure to the outside world. In a lot of cases, it's a cure for xenophobia if treatment it's started early.

  19. No tapering by omnichad · · Score: 2

    It's obvious when you look at the maps. If you're at the fringes of reception on a 4G tower, you're marked as 4G. Even if your signal strength and SNR are barely good enough for dial up speeds, it's happening with 4G tech. And just past that fringe, there's a hard cut off.

  20. Plenty of times I posted that our support wasn't by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Gfy has lots of posts saying "great product, sometimes support is slow". Some of those posts are from *me*. You'll never find me saying "fast support", because they wouldn't have been true.

    Phatservers had fast support, and knew our products, so that's why we discussed teaming up with them to have them do the support for those products. Because yeah, sometimes we weren't quick with support. The first step to fixing that would be honestly acknowledging the problem. I also asked them about about flying out to watch how they do support, see their process first hand. In the end, we arranged to give four different companies the tools and training to do the support - two companies supported their own customers who uses our products along with products and services from that company, tier 1 support went to a dedicated support company lead by a former employee of mine, and we were tier 2 support.

    With our hosting, we explicitly told people that if you need a lot of support, you don't want to host with us; there were other companies we'd suggest. Customers who would want to host with us would be those who valued expertise and security more than they valued quick support.

    I never said we were perfect in every way. We were *honest* about our strengths and weaknesses.

    That worked pretty well for us and for customers. Unhappy customers take up too mich time and can ruin your day, so I didn't *want* "more customers" if they were going to be unhappy customers. 99.9% of our customers were happy because they chose us knowing our weaknesses. We had already told them, if immediate 24/7 support is the most important thing to you, go pay 10 times as much for Phantom Frog. Phantom Frog has better support, and probably needs more support, we'd tell them. If you don't want to call us all the time, and you don't want to NEED to call, because the product "just works", then you might like us.

  21. Me thinks that is excuse by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    If they include such places in the coverage map then it's misleading as charged. (it's not simply my phone it's everyone in the building, android, iphone, blackberry...)

    Additionally, within milliseconds of the first handshake both ends should have enough to know what the connection is really going to support. Not a single person feels those bars mean antenna voltages, they think they mean reception quality.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Me thinks that is excuse by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      Additionally, within milliseconds of the first handshake both ends should have enough to know what the connection is really going to support.

      Again, the resistor example. For the first few milliseconds, the current is basically 1A, and then it starts to drop only after some time (depending on the power dissipation capability of the resistor). There are non-linearities in the system, different effects become significant over different time periods. E.g., the handshaking happens in a few milliseconds, but it's only after 100-500ms under high load that the data rate tanks.

      I'm not disagreeing with you about the map. They probably don't go and actually test the signal everywhere, they just say "we put a tower here that can theoretically reach this far so that area is covered".

      I'm just saying that based on the physics and engineering behind how these systems work, it is absolutely possible that your phone says you have good signal when you actually don't. It doesn't mean your phone is lying to you.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
  22. Ajit Pai by JBMcB · · Score: 1

    I thought that, given previous headlines, when the FCC is doing something, Ajit Pai is personally responsible. Is that not the case here?

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  23. FCC by definition by ElitistWhiner · · Score: 1

    ...is a commission. Commissions are designed to destroy anything it probes. That's how commissions work.

  24. No, YOU stfu unidentifiable anonymous pussy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: I wouldn't give raymorris guff unless he did me 1st & I respect him since he's done a kernel patch @ least for Linux. Unlike most here the guy does good things so I can respect anyone who does that.

    * Your PITIFUL trying to "frame me" FAILS when I show up to put a pusscake WEEZIL like YOU in your place - the shithole where YOUR KIND belongs, you little no good shithead fucker.

    APK

    P.S.=> ... & I certainly don't respect a NO BALLS do-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" OBVIOUS LOSER like you, that's for sure (nobody does or can, as anyone can "hide" behind UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like a PUNK, like you, does)... apk

    1. Re:No, YOU stfu unidentifiable anonymous pussy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up retard. The only thing you are world class at is failure. We mock you to remind everyone why you are worthless in your $1 house your mother left you so you didn't have to live on the streets when she went back to Poland to live out her retirement dream of not having to provide care for her retarded man child of a son.

  25. That's why you STALK me by UNIDENTIFIABLE ac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: You project YOU are worthless & a troll that lives under a bridge (lol). I bought my home & not from my mother, you lying moron.

    APK

    P.S.=> Nobody "takes care of me" BUT me & I do a very good job of it - even "TAKING CARE" of scumbag punks like YOU that STALK me like cowards lying about me by PUTTING YOU & "your kind" where YOU belong - in the sewer... apk