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'Great Dying': Rapid Warming Caused Largest Extinction Event Ever, Report Says (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Rapid global warming caused the largest extinction event in the Earth's history, which wiped out the vast majority of marine and terrestrial animals on the planet, scientists have found. The mass extinction, known as the "great dying," occurred around 252m years ago and marked the end of the Permian geologic period. The study of sediments and fossilized creatures show the event was the single greatest calamity ever to befall life on Earth, eclipsing even the extinction of the dinosaurs 65m years ago. Up to 96% of all marine species perished while more than two-thirds of terrestrial species disappeared. The cataclysm was so severe it wiped out most of the planet's trees, insects, plants, lizards and even microbes.
The researchers used paleoceanographic records and built a model to analyze changes in animal metabolism, ocean and climate conditions. When they used the model to mimic conditions at the end of the Permian period, they found it matched the extinction records. According to the study, this suggests that marine animals essentially suffocated as warming waters lacked the oxygen required for survival. The great dying event, which occurred over an uncertain timeframe of possibly hundreds of years, saw Earth's temperatures increase by around 10C (18F). Oceans lost around 80% of their oxygen, with parts of the seafloor becoming completely oxygen-free. Scientists believe this warming was caused by a huge spike in greenhouse gas emissions, potentially caused by volcanic activity.
The researchers used paleoceanographic records and built a model to analyze changes in animal metabolism, ocean and climate conditions. When they used the model to mimic conditions at the end of the Permian period, they found it matched the extinction records. According to the study, this suggests that marine animals essentially suffocated as warming waters lacked the oxygen required for survival. The great dying event, which occurred over an uncertain timeframe of possibly hundreds of years, saw Earth's temperatures increase by around 10C (18F). Oceans lost around 80% of their oxygen, with parts of the seafloor becoming completely oxygen-free. Scientists believe this warming was caused by a huge spike in greenhouse gas emissions, potentially caused by volcanic activity.
"Garden hose doesn't cause wet grass because rain does that."
Ezekiel 23:20
Carbon, amazingly, doesn't care where it comes from.
And yes there are other sources. In the case of the Great Dying, a giant asteroid slammed into Siberia turning it into a gigantic lava bed.
See any 13 million square kilometre lava beds recently? Or giant asteroid strikes?
No?
Then the lesson you learn is that rapid climate change is deadly because it is rapid. The fact that temperatures have been more extreme than during that time doesn't matter.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Yep, all them models of quantum mechanics we use to build computer chips? Complete bollocks. Those models we use to build bridges and skyscrapers to figure out the loads and stress, utter garbage since they are always falling down...hmmmm...not yet, you say? Given enough time, they will and show your model theory is correct. You should tell the scientists about this, I'm sure they'd listen to you.
There also is a theory that a giant asteroid struck Antarctica and the Siberian Traps were antipodal to the impact.
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If there had been a civilisation like ours that far back, I wonder what kind of traces we would find. Is 'nothing' possible ? There'd be strange fossils of objects or constructions or even radioactive differences. Also all the coal from the carboniferous layer would have been burnt up already !
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Ironically, the Green House effect is a purely quantum mechanical one. We can calculate the absorption spectrum of small molecules down to 10 digits, including those of carbon dioxide, water and methane.
I used to have a policy to go to a good restaurant for agood steak and bottle of red every time a spike in alarmist reports hit.
It is strange the things that some folks consider alarmist. This is merely a conjunction of physics, geology, chemistry and a few other sciences. Odd that people such as yourself find it alarmist, while people like myself find it enjoyable, like fitting together pieces of a jigsaw puzzle as the different disciplines intertwine.
Not to mention, we wouldn't be here if it hadn't happened
Relax and enjoy that bottle of red, You don't need any reason other than being here.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So rapid warming has happened before?
Oh yes. Rapid warming, rapid cooling. Or slow versions of each. There have been some very interesting times in earth's past.
Want some interesting reading? DDG "snowball earth" hypothesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Note that is at the hypothesis stage - as we go further back, it takes a lot more work to figure out what exactly happened.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
If the dinosaurs had all bought $60,000+ Tesla's this could have been avoided.
Your response is far too kind to a fairly transparent bit of trolling...
I'd rather you had that nice bottle of red, peacemaking and calm should have its rewards...
Rgds
Damon
http://m.earth.org.uk/
Even plastic wouldn't last 252 million years. If humans died out today, there wouldn't be trace of us in 252 million years (I think). Plate tectonics would take care of that.
I live in Genoa, you insensitive clod!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
We can ask ourselves what a civilisation would see of our remains in 250 million years time. There would be nothing left of our constructions. There might be lots of fossilised remains of chickens though and they might start to question how a silly little fat bird got to be so successful during the chicken epoch. Maybe we should look and see if there are excessive remains of a species that probably wouldn't be so successful unless a dominant species was breeding it.
Yes, I am going to keep posting this until you knot-heads get it.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Consider that we find dinosaur fossils. If there was a civilization that created ever somewhat durable artifacts, we would know.
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
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It's not global climate change that's driving this, it's local habitat disruption. Global climate change creates local habitat disruption, but so do other things, like people introducing non-native species to a locality, or hunting a local keystone species to extinction.
You are thinking as if the only kind of "cause" is one that is both necessary and sufficient. Climate change, exotic species introduction, human predation, human transformation of landscape for agriculture or development... none of these are both necessary and sufficient causes of a mass extinction. It doesn't mean they can't contribute to one.
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Back in the 90s my wife worked for a large public water authority serving over a million people. She attended a board meeting in which the IT department presented a proposal to acquire this new thing called "anti-virus".
When one of the board members heardhow much this would cost, he balked. When challenged by other board members as to what they should do about computer viruses, this was his response: "We don't have to do anything. We've spent millions of dollars on these systems, and the integrity of those systems will protect them."
In other words, he didn't have any specific justification for his position, he was just certain they didn't need to do anything about the problem. He was certain because that's what his gut was telling him. And his gut was telling him that because he didn't like what he'd have to do if it were a problem.
This is, in fact, the way most people think. Only people trained in specific disciplines like science think differently, and with social media it's very easy to construct an information bubble in which science sounds outlandish, because everyone knows Adam and Eve rode around on dinosaurs.
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there's not problem. Folks know there's a problem, but the average person is living paycheck to paycheck (60-80% of them, depending on if you define "paycheck to paycheck" as "very little in the bank" or "not a dime in the bank").
I've said this before, but it's worth repeating: Climate change is years from now, rent's due at the end of the month. If you want folks to care about climate change you have to solve their short term economic problems. That means taxes. If you're making good money (figure $300k/yr+) your taxes are going up to fund public works projects. Also we're gonna have to pull back on all those wars and, well, let's not mince words, your stock portfolio profits handsomely from the Military Industrial Complex...
Still, unless we do something about working class Americans then they're gonna keep voting climate change deniers in office because anything we can do about Climate change is likely to cost them money, and they're barely making it.
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In the 1970s, greenhouse effect models correctly predicted that the aerosol cooling trend that dominated global climate between 1940 and 1980 would be reversed in the coming decades. And if you apply an impulse response filter (like moving average) to smooth out year-to-year weather effects, the predictions of those models as to global temperature anomalies hold up extremely well.
This is the strongest possible confirmation you can have for a scientific hypothesis, which is why the burden of proof is on people who make claims like the earth is not warming, or that anthropogenic CO2 emissions can't drive climate change. You can call the people who support AGW "chicken littles", but here's the thing: even if that were true, it wouldn't matter. The emotional basis of your beliefs has no relevance at all. It's what you claim and how you support it.
You can be a Young Earth creationist and a good scientist, as long as you don't make any unsupportable creationist claims in a scientific forum. In church you can say anything you damn well please.
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For linking to the pic, I'd mod you up. For the rest of it? I dunno. Why? Read:
Know what 99.999999% of every human on the planet prioritizes above all else? Day to day survival, and making their lives work, taking care of their families, and so on. They don't have TIME or ENERGY to think about things this big. So blaming them for propping up oil companies is bullshit so far as I'm concerned. There's supposed to be bigger brains with a more farsighted vision of things taking care of the long-term plans, with a sense of ethics and morality to serve the interests of all, so that the common person can take care of their own day to day business and survival. Clearly we do not have that; we have out-of-control capitalism, The Few (i.e. The Rich) only concerned really with This Quarters' Profits, and whether the Earth is habitable 100 years from now or now? That's someone else's problem so far as they're concerned, they'll be DEAD by then so why should they care so long as they have The Good Life NOW. Then there's the extreme religious types, who think the Earth is only 6000 years old, and that it's All Going To End Soon anyway, that the Apocalypse is coming, nothing can stop it, so why should they bother? Jesus is going to come take The Faithful home to Heaven anyway, why should they bother? The worst of those, they think hurrying along the demise of the Earth and all life on it, will make Jesus come back sooner, so they can go to Heaver with him sooner. This, of course, is not only a perversion of their own beliefs, it's utter and complete NONSENSE.
We have to rein in out-of-control corporations, we have to rein in The Rich, somehow, and prevent them all from fucking over the Earth and all living things on it, before it's too late -- and it may already BE too late. The one-two-ten-few thousand banding together won't do it. Governments have to be sent a clear unmistakable message that this will no longer be tolerated and make THEM rein in The Few who would sell our future, the future of the Earth, for a few bucks in profit TODAY. The sad fact is: good bloody luck getting anyone to organize anything. There may need to be a die-back of all living things, 99% of all humans dying, before any of it can be made to stop. Human civilization may just not be worthy to be the custodian of the Earth.
Let's face the sad, dirty little fact: the 'average person' is not very smart, and can't really think very far in the future, either. The science of most things is so far over their heads, that they'd sooner believe they're being swindled out of something.
Short story: I used to know a guy who told me once that he thought he could put a bunch of little electric generators with propellers mounted on them on the hood of his car, and get 'free energy', that he'd somehow route to a motor that would improve his gas mileage. No matter how I tried to explain it to him, he just plain would not believe that the losses would far exceed the gains, and that the added air resistance would actually make his fuel economy worse. He literally believed something like this troll image was real. Nothing would persuade him differently.
The above story is more-or-less the Average Person when it comes to science. What's worse: take the average person and add religion? It's even worse, they not only believe most science is bullshit intended to trick them, they believe science is EVIL and Satanic and they're trying to mislead them away from their God. That's the sort of icecream-headache-causing nonsense we're fighting against here.
Titanium, glass, shaped stone and gold artifacts to name a few things not bio. Also an abundance of human bones. The 'dominant species' will be present with the chickens (bigger, heavier bones).
Then you think incorrectly. Tectonics is not like shuffling a deck of cards, it doesn't jumble everything. Besides, you'll have to explain how the gold got *back* into veins in rocks, lode deposits, etc.
This is why science works and why "do science." Our instincts are often incorrect, and the scientific method helps us learn more about what actually might be going on.
1. It does include margins of error
2. The predictions made in prior reports have actually come true to within the margin of error
3. "Probably doesn't" is something only an idiot who has never read something would say. So you're admitting you don't know what something is saying, but are saying it's wrong anyway. Also you've done no research whatsoever to find out if it is wrong, even by asking people who'd know.
It's hard to quantify the level of idiocy necessary to write the two comments you've written, but if we build a model to determine your lack of intelligence based upon those comments, I can pretty much guess that the "error bars" are going to be fairly narrow.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I had one of these friends too. It's not the best example to use though, because he is stupid but not as wrong as you think.
That can actually work, but the energy comes from a velocity differential between the wind and surface rather than magically excessive drag mitigation. For going downwind, you have to switch to letting the wheels power the fans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
that would be a short term solution that would eventually bite you in the ass. The goal is to give them stable lives with a modicum of comfort and family life.
What I'm advocating has already happened in large parts of Europe and the UK (though the UK is regressing and Europe is trying to).
Finally, Money corrupting the system is just a symptom. If folks felt more secure then all the money in the world would prevent them from addressing climate change.
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are just regular fires. Disasters happen. Folks are used to that.
Doing something on climate change would only benefit their checks if it lead to new jobs for the folks who'll be put out of work. A lot of climate change proponents are just asking people to cut back. They want to fix the climate problems for their own reasons, but they don't want to pay for all that infrastructure spending. That kind of infrastructure needs government backing to make happen. And that means taxes.
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What you're talking about was discussed in a well-publicized paper fairly recently. The authors called it The Silurian Hypothesis and found that it was a lot more plausible than you're suggesting.
Again, it is just a bad example. I am a physicist, and the turbines on a car misconception is one of those exceptions that is actually viable for certain conditions, which may be why some people intuitively cling to it.
Consider a car at rest pointing into the wind. The fans generate power while no work is done by the wheels and nothing is lost to drag. Obviously some forward motion is possible before things come to equilibrium. Working it out, that equilibrium happens at a bit faster than the windspeed.
So it won't work on a highway commute (and would in fact be detrimental) but it isn't a totally wrong direction for casual intuition to take you. Sailboats sail into the wind, using the wind speed differential as power in an analogous way.
I think you'll find that I mentioned.... Oh, look! THIRTEEN MILLION SQUARE MILES of lava. And the asteroid? Triggered the lava flows, not the dying in itself.
Amazing.
Christ on a pancake. Does ANYONE bother to read these days? Am I the last person on Earth who can read???
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)