Slashdot Mirror
Google's CEO Thinks Android Users Know How Much Their Phones Are Tracking Them (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Google CEO Sundar Pichai thinks Android users have a good understanding of the volume of data Google collects on them, when they agree to use the Android mobile operating system. The exec, who is testifying today in front of the House Judiciary committee for a hearing entitled "Transparency & Accountability: Examining Google and its Data Collection, Use and Filtering Practices," claimed that users are in control of the information Google has on them. "For Google services, you have a choice of what information is collected, and we make it transparent," Pichai said in response to questioning from Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA).
Google's defense on the data collection front is similar to Facebook's -- that is, Pichai responded that Google provides tools that put users in control. But do they actually use them? "It's really important for us that average users are able to understand it," said Pichai, stating that users do understand the user agreement for Android OS. "We actually ... remind users to do a privacy checkup, and we make it very obvious every month. In fact, in the last 28 days, 160 million users went to their My Account settings, where they can clearly see what information we have -- we actually show it back to them. We give clear toggles, by category, where they can decide whether that information is collected, stored, or -- more importantly -- if they decide to stop using it, we work hard to make it possible for users to take their data with them," he said. When asked if Google could improve its user dashboard and tools to better teach people how to protect their privacy, including turning off data collection and location tracking, Pichai said "there's complexity," but it is "something I do think we can do better." He continued: "We want to simplify it, and make it easier for average users to navigate these settings. It's something we are working on."
Google's defense on the data collection front is similar to Facebook's -- that is, Pichai responded that Google provides tools that put users in control. But do they actually use them? "It's really important for us that average users are able to understand it," said Pichai, stating that users do understand the user agreement for Android OS. "We actually ... remind users to do a privacy checkup, and we make it very obvious every month. In fact, in the last 28 days, 160 million users went to their My Account settings, where they can clearly see what information we have -- we actually show it back to them. We give clear toggles, by category, where they can decide whether that information is collected, stored, or -- more importantly -- if they decide to stop using it, we work hard to make it possible for users to take their data with them," he said. When asked if Google could improve its user dashboard and tools to better teach people how to protect their privacy, including turning off data collection and location tracking, Pichai said "there's complexity," but it is "something I do think we can do better." He continued: "We want to simplify it, and make it easier for average users to navigate these settings. It's something we are working on."
And rape victims know they are raped. What's your point?
Doesn't mean they are OK with it! Or that they have much of a choice!
(No, if it means you're a social outcast, you don't have a choice.)
This completely, and I think deliberately, distracts from the real discussion.
That Google is evil for doing the snooping and peeping, and even worse, for arrogantly even acting like it's alright.
When it should, if most people had a say, probably actually be a crime resulting in life in prison for him, just for offering it for sale... even if the terms and conditions (read: code, incomprehensible to humans) say they do it.
I don't think the average user knows how much, but I also think the average user doesn't care enough to go find out. However, I don't believe that is any fault on Google's part. Without getting into whether Google should collect as much as it does, what it collects and where to find it is available as long as the user actually pays attention and/or cares to find it. They're not hiding it.
Not only do I think this is disingenuous but he's also failing to point out that Google arbitrarily requires you to give them the whole kit and caboodle of personal data if you want to use certain features. Want to use the Play store? You have to enable location services that Google tracks. Want to use Google maps and actually store maps so you don't download them every time (whether you are on android or not)? You have to sign in and give over all your tracking data. And are there actual legitimate requirements for this? No - Google intentionally moved location services inside of the Play framework, it used to be completely separate and standalone. Do you need to be signed in to download maps to the local device? Of course not. But Google knows people want to use these features on their devices and the force you to give up everything to use them.
Any time I try to toggle off data collection in that "My Account" area, the settings miraculously revert as soon as I leave.
Meanwhile, I've never had that problem on iOS. Heck, I'm not sure what other services I've had that issue with (I'm sure FB would be included, except for my lack of interactions with them.) I've heard rumors about Win10, but again...
Your ad here. Ask me how!
We want to simplify it, and make it easier for average users to navigate these settings. It's something we are working on.
They could start by calling location history 'location history'.
As a Princeton computer scientist and former chief technologist for the Federal Communications Commission's enforcement bureau said: “If you're going to allow users to turn off something called ‘location history’, then all the places where you maintain location history should be turned off. That seems like a pretty straightforward position to have.”
Regardless of what he believes, that's what he's going to tell the committee. It's not like he's going to tell them, "We believe the average user has no idea how much information we're squirrelling away. We're essentially committing fraud here."
Sundar you miserable geek. Get out of the f**king petri dish and talk to average users, not the techno-incestuous gang you hang out with, but actual people who don't write code or configure servers. Artists, garbage truck drivers, English teachers, soup kitchen workers. They think their phone is a cell phone. They think "I'll buy a cell phone, so then I own it and everything on it. And I'll even pay for some cellular service provider so that I can talk to my family and some friends. A cell phone is an appliance. It's a f**king toaster. Why is it sending my bagels to a dozen different companies I've never heard of?" Who in their right minds would ever consider that we're paying so much for the privilege of letting you siphon off our personal details to be sold to an endless stream of spam monkeys?
Ok. ramp down. off the soapbox. all better now.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
I'm starting to wonder how dumb it is to have a smart phone. Seriously whats the point anymore? So that it makes it easier for govt to spy on us and companies to advertise to us.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Google CEO Sundar Pichai thinks Android users have a good understanding of the volume of data Google collects on them,
Android users are people, and the vast majority of people have jobs outside IT. Normal people don't even know the difference between 2G, 3G and 4G except that the higher numbers mean "faster". They also couldn't list the sensors that their phone contains, and barely understand what information the OS has available at all. They know that GPS has something to do with maps, but that's it. They are almost certainly not aware that their phone is constantly doing data transfers in the background nor do they have any idea what data is being exchanged.
This is just the other version of the usual "blame the user" bullshit. We blame the user for being stupid and making mistakes, then we turn around and blame the user for knowing everything so its not our fault, again. Can't have it both ways.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
If they really wanted people to understand the Android user "agreement", it would be short, concise and clear.
If they really wanted people to adjust their tracking and data collection, it would be (1) opt-in, (2) much more visible, and (3) devastating to Google's business.
I doubt that any settings you may be able to adjust have any effect on what they collect and analyze. It may adjust how some of it is presented to *you* though.
I really like this article by Martin Abrams which tries to explain all the different data types and how strong public awareness is about each type.
Core types he recognises are:
- Provided
- Observed
- Derived
- Inferred
When most people think about 'their data', they don't think beyond the 'provided' type.
http://informationaccountabili...
“But the plans were on display”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Sundar you miserable geek. Get out of the f**king petri dish and talk to average users, not the techno-incestuous gang you hang out with, but actual people who don't write code or configure servers.
Why not just use the much more likely explanation that he is lying and he knows it. He's looking for plausible deniability. The guy is smart so I don't really buy the argument that he's THAT out of touch with reality. Simple fact is that Google is doing what is in Google's financial interest and tracking you benefits Google rather a lot. They have to pretend they care about the issue but just follow the money trail to see what they really care about.
Comparing the service that Google provides to rape is asinine.
Disagree. The issue is whether there is adequate informed consent. This requires a clear appreciation and understanding of the facts, consequences, and implications of the action. It is very much akin to rape or at least malpractice if informed consent is not obtained. It's not at all clear that people are in possession of all the facts nor are they presented in a clear and understandable manner. Expecting people to know or suspect there are nuanced negative consequences without considerably effort to inform them is ridiculous
Google gives you something in return. Believe it or not, people aren't forced to use Google and generally do so because they like the products.
A medical quack gives people something in return too. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to allow it. Google is knowingly taking advantage of people's lack of technological sophistication. It's not really a question that a huge percent of the public does not understand the full implications of their actions nor are they being provided adequately clear information and opportunities to remedy this situation.