Sting on Amazon Booksellers Aims To Weed Out Counterfeit Textbooks, But Small Sellers Getting Hurt (cnbc.com)

Amazon upended the book industry more than two decades ago by bringing sales onto the web. Now, during the heart of the holiday shopping season, the company is wreaking havoc on used booksellers who have come to rely on Amazon for customers. From a report: In the past two weeks, Amazon has suspended at least 20 used book merchants for allegedly selling one or more counterfeit textbooks. They all received the same generic email from Amazon informing them that their account had been "temporarily deactivated" and reminding them that "the sale of counterfeit products on Amazon is strictly prohibited."

[...] The crackdown on textbook sellers stands out at a time when Amazon is dramatically stepping up its broader anti-counterfeiting efforts, suspending third-party sellers across all its popular categories. Unlike most suspensions, which tend to occur after complaints from consumers or from brand owners who are monitoring the site for counterfeits, these booksellers got caught up in what appears to be a coordinated sting operation.

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[account_deleted]

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Textbooks? I'm on the side of the pirates, then.

[Seven Spirals]

Something bad was bound to happen to the folks who came up with the $300 textbook cabal.

Re:Boohoo.

[DarkRookie2]

Text books can cost $100+
This isn't really on Amazon. They are covering their own ass with this.

Its the text book publishers that are causing this. Why would I pay $100 for a book I need and required to have when I can get it for $50. Counterfeit or not.

How can they say these are fake?

[SuperKendall]

If you read through the article, one of the books was a used donated book ten years old.

How can anyone say if a ten year old book is counterfeit? That alone seems pretty suspicious.

It sure does end up looking like Amazon is simply shutting down people selling any used textbooks...

If I were an Amazon seller no way would I ship anything to the address and person mentioned in the article, though probably they will just switch to a new name and fake address...

Re:How can they say these are fake?

[Darinbob]

Amazon is most likely being handed a list of sellers by the publishing industry. Amazon on its own didn't go out on its own and investigate these book sellers.

Now some books may have a cover torn off them, intended for return as unsold copies. But did anyone investigate that this was the case, comparing a deliberately torn off cover versus an actual used book with wear and tear?

Also, some books make say "not for resale", but a label on a book is not necessarily enforceable legally. And there aren't enough "demo" books out there to really make a solid market out of them anyway.

Re:Your rights are gone

[DarkRookie2]

1. That is still covered under the first sale doctrine, but nobody has the money to fight it since the 1% have the majority of it.
2. It is not. It is repairing. Apple just wants more and more money. Also what you get for buying something that cannot be repaired. That is one of the major problems cell phones have.
3. You can talk about. Nothing preventing that. Its just that the news corp have decided to make it Red vs Blue ti get views and ad dollar. Being journalist are the last things those companies want to do. They honestly need to get some points from Rooster Teeth.
4. Same as three mostly. But its nostalgia more than news corps.
5. You can, but like number 3, the news corp have made this country Red vs Blue.

Part of the problem is the news media. Not for fake news, but for news being last and ad revenue first. Another is that people keep voting the same assholes into office.

counterfeit = not by the original rights holder

[supernova87a]

Just to be clear, these are probably low cost copies of books printed in other countries where the copyright laws or marketed costs of these books are 1/10 to 1/20 of the price in the USA. And therefore not supposed to be imported into the USA. Or outright copies of USA textbooks, repackaged into paperback and sold by someone who doesn't have the license to do so.

"Counterfeit" makes it sound like they have 3rd rate imitation equations or incorrect facts in them, written by some kids in a sweatshop in Bangladesh.

It's hard to keep a monopoly on knowledge.

Re:counterfeit = not by the original rights holder

[EvilSS]

Maybe, but there are actual counterfeit copies of popular text books out there. These are printed overseas without the publisher's permission, usually full of OCR errors and with shitty bindings. For example: a fake copy of The Art of Electronics sent to EEVBlog by the real book's author. Here's another example a counterfeit copy of the DSM V . Textbooks are expensive, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that pirated copies would start coming in from Asia.

Re:counterfeit = not by the original rights holder

[Obfuscant]

Or outright copies of USA textbooks, repackaged into paperback and sold by someone who doesn't have the license to do so.

I remember in graduate school a Taiwanese fellow student had a good business going, bringing counterfeit copies of textbooks back when he'd visit home (or have them shipped by his family) and sell them at a good price that was still a good profit for him. He explained it to me as the copyright enforcement in Taiwan was non-existent. They were printed on cheap crap paper and had pathetic bindings, but they were really cheap.

Re:counterfeit = not by the original rights holder

[novakyu]

Here's my question: how much due diligence did they do, ensuring that they are not accidentally catching people selling legit international editions (published by someone properly licensed)? Those exist, and first-sale doctrine in those cases was upheld.

Re:counterfeit = not by the original rights holder

[Darinbob]

Do used bookstores do this? And did Amazon VERIFY this of just rely upon accusations from publishers? It all feels fishy.

Re:counterfeit = not by the original rights holder

[Darinbob]

The first sale doctrine is considered a mortal enemy by the publishing industry, not to mention several other industries. The first sale doctrine gets in the way of profits, and if you get in the way of profits be prepared for a fight.

Re:Textbooks? I'm on the side of the pirates, then

[iggymanz]

that's not even what this issue is about. it's about real textbooks printed for overseas by the same publishers who print the overpriced USA ones, because the schools support their cabal.

I say we make a law requiring textbooks to be sold domestically at the lowest price the overseas people can get them. what we have now is price gouging

Seems like it's on Amazon

[SuperKendall]

This isn't really on Amazon. They are covering their own ass with this.

I'm not so sure. Seems like the publishers could, if they chose, run the same game themselves and complain to amazon about sellers they felt were violating copyright.

But if you read the article, at least one book was a one year old physics textbook. What college is going to be using that anymore? Sure doesn't seem like that book purchase was requested by a publisher, it was Amazon taking the mission of finding counterfeit textbooks to an extreme (and I seriously doubt they could really tell if a ten year old textbook was a counterfeit).

If I were the booksellers I'd be looking at a class action lawsuit for lost revenue from the lot of them that we're banned for simply selling used textbooks.

Re:Seems like it's on Amazon

[DarkRookie2]

I'm not so sure. Seems like the publishers could, if they chose, run the same game themselves and complain to amazon about sellers they felt were violating copyright.

True, but I would bet money Amazon is doing this to save on legal fees in the long run.

Was it the Police or just Sting?

[Anonymous Coward]

:)

Re:Boohoo.

[iggymanz]

actually, the claimed "counterfeit" in this issue is just real textbook by same publisher, printed for non-domestic market, because the publishers can use the "required for college" in the USA to screw over the domestic buyer by inflating price 4 times or more.

easy fix for this, require the publisher to have the same price for U.S. citizen as lowest overseas market price. Time to cap this cartel in the knees

Re:Boohoo.

[hazem]

Text books can cost $100+

Often much more. This is why in the classes I teach, I specifically choose books published under licenses like the Creative Commons. And if those aren't available for what I need, I'll "recommend" old versions of text books as a resource (e.g. "if you need more practice exercises, see ch 5 of ___, which you can get at the library or for about $10 used). Nobody needs to buy a brand new $200 "Intro to Statistics for Business" book, especially since they'll probably never look at it again. I also tend to draw from published papers and even well-written blogs.

I can create and assign my own problems and exam questions, so there's no need for rip-offs like Cengage.

It's a little more work on my part, but much more satisfying and a lot better value for my students.

Re:Textbooks? I'm on the side of the pirates, then

[Seven Spirals]

Totally agree. A good example is "Operating Systems Design and Implementation" by Andrew Tannenbaum. It's still (right this very fucking minute) $180 new on Amazon. I used that book in college for my Operating Systems 200 class. I'd lost my copy. So, I got on Ebay and ordered one for $8. However, when it came, it was brand new and said "Asian Edition" but was 100% English and other than that label on the cover ... identical.

See a demand and fill it!

[Locke2005]

All it takes is one student who knows how to use a copying machine!

Re:So what. Fuck'em!

[Locke2005]

I'm pretty sure the copyright on Newton's Principia Mathematica has expired, and anybody can publish it now...

It's not the professor. It's the schools and

[aussersterne]

departments. I used to be a prof at a large university. One of the reasons I left academics was that I got tired of fighting the battle about textbooks in courses that I was required to teach (faculty divvied up the 100/200 courses, everyone had to do some).

I started out as a starry-eyed young prof trying to help my students by putting alternate sources of inexpensive textbooks on syllabi. We're talking textbooks at $2 vs. $120 on the used market. Saving students a lot of dough. But that go no-noed.

So I pulled it off the syllabus and started just making verbal announcements. That also got no-noed.

So I started just requiring an office hours visit first week of semester and telling students in office hours. That also got no-noed.

So I stopped requiring the textbook and sent them to the library for optional textbook reading. That also got no-noed.

I had serious ethical qualms about forcing students—about half of whom really oughtn't find a way to "afford" it—to spend $hundreds on things that were $nearly free and being forbidden from making it $totally free by just sending them to the library.

Everyone must buy the book, I was told. There's departmental and institutional revenue at stake, I was told. Nevermind that first-year college students from underprivileged backgrounds whose entire extended families were pulling together to help them through were dropping $1k a semester on $50-75 worth of books from used booksellers.

It's just one factor in the decisions that led me out of academics, but it's a very concrete one. It felt like a slimy industry after a while, more about conning money out of people (students, taxpayers, donors and endowers) than caring about the topics at hand.

But yeah, don't blame the profs.

Re:It's not the professor. It's the schools and

[omnichad]

But yeah, don't blame the profs.

Unless they're a textbook author.

Re:It's not the professor. It's the schools and

[Immerman]

As someone who spent a few years teaching college courses, I can't think of any group better qualified to write such a book, except possibly a really exceptional student. Knowing the subject is one thing - teaching it well is something else entirely.

I only had one professor that I know of who wrote a text book (computer science), and he made a point of making it available free online. Of course this was a greybeard Linux enthusiast (may his rest be joyous) at an edge-of-nowhere university who's mission statement involved creating opportunities for under-served populations. So not necessarily the sort of place representative of the industry.

Re:It's not the professor. It's the schools and

[UnknownSoldier]

Except the problem is that the silient majority IS part of the problem.

If EVERY prof said "Cut this shit out or we resign" the university / colleagues would change their tune.

But people aren't interested in rocking the boat to fix an broken system. :-/

Maybe next century we'll stop greed from running our universities.

Re:It's not the professor. It's the schools and

[serviscope_minor]

If EVERY prof said "Cut this shit out or we resign" the university / colleagues would change their tune.

Profs gotta eat too. If you have no social safety net that allows for that sort of ethical action then this is exactly the sort of thing that can happen. Being able to eat and make rent is almost always going to come top.

And when you say "every" you're not far off. Academia is hugely competitive with people devoting their life for the chance for a job when there's 10 times as many people as there are jobs.

Even if only half of them did that it would not take the universities long to refill.

Re:It's not the professor. It's the schools and

[Anonymous Coward]

Europe doesn't generally have the general education classes American universities do - introductions/overviews of a subject unrelated to or tangential to your primary course of study. This results in mass enrollments in things like Introduction to Psychology or Calculus I. Because enrollments are so high, many of these courses are taught as mass lectures and historically were graded based on exams or possibly final papers. In recent decades, there has been a push for more incremental feedback, often for student retention reasons. The theory is that if a student realizes they are struggling in week 2-3, they are more likely to take correctives steps than if they discover that mid term. To give that feedback, many have turned to online, automatically graded homework. That's where the required purchase and lock-in come in. While the professional societies have created free alternatives, it requires money to operate and time to administer that would be borne by the professor/department whereas choosing commercial the cost and time are borne by the students. This is why many math departments choose WebAssign/MyMathLabs rather than MAA's WebWork. Another graded homework model is problems from the book. Again, the professor or department could write their own, but it is easier to use a commercial textbook with pre-made grading keys and work-study graders than doing it themselves.

I sound rather cynical so far, so let me give the other side of the argument. WebAssign's set up allows a student to get immediate feedback, preventing them from reinforcing a wrong technique, and can even offer the ability to walk through some problems step by step with the student - it can be tedious when not needed, but a godsend when they are struggling. Often these platforms allow students to reattempt a modified problem to reinforce the correct way of solving it. Professionally produced books have fewer errors than self edited notes and at the end of the day represent about 5-10% of the cost of tuition at most schools.
  I generally found the commercial textbooks well worth their price. I wish the prices for things like webAssign were lower, but barriers to entry and near 0 marginal costs for new customers make it a natural monopoly or at least natural oligarchy.

Re:Your rights are gone

[Aighearach]

You can re-import a new item and it might still be new. If it is the first time it has crossed from wholesale to retail, then it is probably still new.

Re:Textbooks? I'm on the side of the pirates, then

[currently_awake]

Just passing a law making it Legal to import copyrighted or patented stuf from outside America would suffice. Selling new DVD's in China for $5 when the same sells for $30 here is barely above theft.

Re:Textbooks? I'm on the side of the pirates, then

[Cmdln Daco]

I'm a nerd, so I've collected all editions of Tanenbaum. I don't run Minix regularly, but I have it and run it sometimes.

The original Minix booted off floppy diskettes and would run on an IBM PC-XT, by the way.

Re: Boohoo.

[cpt kangarooski]

Well, actually copyright does include control over importation. Itâ(TM)s a part of the distribution right at 17 USC 106(3), 602.

BUT, the distribution right is subject to (among other things) the âoefirst saleâ exception at 17 USC 109. The leading case on this is Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 568 U.S. 519 (2013), in which the Supreme Court held that lawfully made copies can be imported by anyone.

Re:Your rights are gone

[Darinbob]

You expection cases are not what is happening in this story. USED bookstores are not selling textbooks as brand new, and yet they get banished from Amazon, almost certainly at the request of book publishers.

Remember you people approved all this when you insisted that DRM in games was a good thing, that it was better to get the games online than to drive to the store. And the one and only purpose of DRM was to make used game sales effectively impossible. Now this gets applied to actual physical objects and people start complaining. If DRM was people getting a foot in your door, these people are now rummaging through your refrigerator.

Open Educational Resources...

[Anonymous Coward]

...are supposed to put an end to this kind of deal between academic publishers, booksellers, and educational institutions that fleece students for $10's billions (that's not a typo) every year. In several studies, OER textbooks were shown to be of equal or higher quality than their commercial counterparts and institutions are already implementing "OER first" policies. Also, OER textbooks increase academic outcomes because more students have the books before or at the start of their courses and don't miss out on anything from the start.

Read it again

[WolfgangVL]

Amazon is not cracking down on the weed in your textbooks.

Re:Read it again

[Dusthead Jr.]

And Sting is not somehow involved.

Re:So what. Fuck'em!

[jabuzz]

It has, I have a PDF version. Hope your Latin is up to snuff mind you, if you want to understand what you are reading.

Story

[sadafba786]

Same is the thing that I've read so far somewhere else. But I was looking deep into the profession of Bookselling on Amazon . And here your post stuck my mind.