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New Evernote CEO Vows To Spend 2019 Fixing Note-Taking App's Long List of Problems (venturebeat.com)

Rather than serving up platitudes about innovation, the man charged with saving former unicorn Evernote says his priority this year is addressing the long list of user complaints. From a report: Despite some progress, Evernote continued to struggle last year, cutting 15 percent of its staff and losing many top executives.So what doesn't work? Lots of stuff, much of it very basic, new CEO Ian Small says: "Frankly, it's a bit disingenuous for me to try to get our most dedicated users all fired up about inventing the future of Evernote when exactly those same people are the ones who know best that sync doesn't always work right. Or that Evernote on Windows is a bit tired, and is missing features that are found on the Mac version. Or that each version of Evernote seems to work slightly differently, and exhibits its own unique collection of bugs and undesirable behaviors. Or that Evernote on mobile devices sometimes feels like a pared-down version of a powerful desktop app, instead of a mobile-first view into a powerful cloud-enabled productivity environment." Small says these problems have lingered for years and were well-known, but he didn't want to get into why they weren't fixed sooner. Instead, he promises the main focus of 2019 will be dealing with these and numerous other issues.

53 comments

  1. CEOs gonna CEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "...Or that Evernote on mobile devices sometimes feels like a pared-down version of a powerful desktop app, instead of a mobile-first view into a powerful cloud-enabled productivity environment."

    Man, he went from zero to buzzword bingo in record time.

    1. Re:CEOs gonna CEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its about time we synergize some bitcoins into our product stack.

  2. lolwtf?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How does a company that makes a note taking app need hundreds of people? *head asplodes*

    1. Re:lolwtf?!? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      A team for backend, frontend, Android and iPhone, devops, and then sales, accounting, HR, and managers. Note that most of the programmers there probably suck, but that is the way of the modern world: you can't find good programmers, so you hire a lot of bad ones. Plug them in with agile and a safe language like Java or Python and things still manage to get things done well enough.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:lolwtf?!? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Because they grew fast. They've got a nice building too (not sure if leased). But after awhile you end up with many more users than you expected, more revenue than you expected, and you have to expand to get more servers and and more support and more sales. And because people want to see new features and such, you need more devs too. Then one day they find out they should have stopped growing a few months back.

    3. Re:lolwtf?!? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Ah, but then someone says "hey, who can fix this OSX code?" and they say "Frank is the only guy who understands it, but you laid him off a couple weeks ago." Eventually the VP of engineering (who after layoffs is also VP of IT and Facilities) says "just hire an intern, how hard can this stuff be?"

    4. Re:lolwtf?!? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      A team for backend, frontend, Android and iPhone, devops, and then sales, accounting, HR, and managers.

      Also Andrew, the guy who does all the programming. The first Evernote updates will start appearing when he gets back from holiday next week.

    5. Re:lolwtf?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does a company that makes a note taking app need hundreds of people? *head asplodes*

      They're trying to catch the diabolical supervillain Fictitious Stalker. Last I heard, he was a Mac user.

    6. Re:lolwtf?!? by terrycarlino · · Score: 2

      Like many problems with corporate America its an Wall Street problem.

      Evernote is a progam that does one thing really well. It lets you keep a list of things in the cloud so you can access it from all your devices, no matter what their operating system. I access my Evernote account from Linux, Windows, Android and could access it from iOS and whatever OS Apple computers are now using. It works great and does everything I expect.

      The problem is that only so many people need this functionality. There is no reason to expect that such a company will continue to exhibit huge growth past a few years. That shouldn't matter. As long as there is no customer base contraction the company once its completes it's initial application development on the various platforms should only need a staff large enough to keep the applications update for changes and updates in the various OS's and to maintain the cloud based servers that the information lives on. Like any other utility it should make a tidy profit each year, and if well run pay it's stockholders a reasonable dividend.

      But of course that isn't what Wall Street wants. They want a company with an increasing stock value that allows them to buy it low, sell it high and roll over the profit to the next sale. They justify this differential price rise by pointing to an impossibly ever increasing customer base, increasing profits, etc.

      It's time for Wall Street to wake up to the realities of sustainable market forces. Companies which make a steady profit, provide a dividend and coincidentally actually provide a useful service, so have a reason to exist beyond marketing and stock manipulation.

      That means Evernote needs to determine what size staff it actually needs to maintain its user base and decide if that number is economically sustainable at the prices it charges its users. If it does it shouldn't matter if its stocks are surging, as long as they are properly valued.

    7. Re: lolwtf?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good points. It in one of my few âoe must have âoe applications.

  3. Wow, that's amazing by fat+man's+underwear · · Score: 0

    Someone thought they could run a company that does what my phone does out of the box... really? Taking notes and saving them to my google drive? Wow.

  4. Dead by sexconker · · Score: 0

    It's dead, and it's going to get deadder. The new CEO has the "mobile-first" cancer in his brain.

    1. Re:Dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as I saw the words "mobile-first view into a powerful cloud-enabled productivity environment" my brain let out a sigh and I prepared the final nail for the coffin.

    2. Re:Dead by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Note taking is one area where "mobile first" is a good idea. The best note taking device is the one you have with you. And most of the times, it is a mobile device.

      And unfortunately, most note taking apps are terrible on mobile. In particular, the only app I know does hand drawing correctly is Squid/Papyrus, but it is the only thing it does well. Mobile phones take pictures, have a touchscreen you can draw on, but they are terrible for text input, and yet, most mobile note taking apps rely on the latter.

      Still, "mobile-first view into a powerful cloud-enabled productivity environment" doesn't sound good. The problem is data entry, not the "view", the "cloud" or the "productivity environment".

    3. Re:Dead by Voyager529 · · Score: 2

      Note taking is one area where "mobile first" is a good idea. The best note taking device is the one you have with you. And most of the times, it is a mobile device.

      And unfortunately, most note taking apps are terrible on mobile. In particular, the only app I know does hand drawing correctly is Squid/Papyrus, but it is the only thing it does well. Mobile phones take pictures, have a touchscreen you can draw on, but they are terrible for text input, and yet, most mobile note taking apps rely on the latter.

      Still, "mobile-first view into a powerful cloud-enabled productivity environment" doesn't sound good. The problem is data entry, not the "view", the "cloud" or the "productivity environment".

      I half agree with this, but I think you're missing the GP's point. I agree that making it easy to jot down notes and get the information out of one's brain and onto a more permanent form of storage is something mobile devices are good at, and I agree that the mobile versions of most note taking apps could stand to use a bit of improvement.

      However, what I think was the original point, is that while mobile devices are great for taking notes due to their availability, desktops are great at helping to categorize that data based on their ability to show lots more data at once, and alter the display of that data to allow for greater amounts of categorization.. In the broadest of strokes, the most optimal system would be one where the mobile UI is optimized for data entry and the desktop UI is optimized for metadata entry (e.g. tags, categories, pages, links, consolidation, OCR, and so on).

      The problem is that giving each platform a means to utilize its strengths is incredibly difficult to do; such a task would land the product in one of three categories:

      1. The low-density, few-controls "mobile first" UI that wastes massive amounts of space on a 24" monitor and has so few controls as to lack the ability for users to customize.
      2. A high-density, highly-customizable UI on a mobile device that's impossible to navigate or pick particular controls, or ending up with multiple sub-menus that make the mobile version unfriendly to use.
      3. A schizophrenic UI that is optimized for both, but ends up being foreign to the end user when they switch between platforms, making it seem like almost two different products.

      Good UI design is hard, and the unicorn, 'just right' UI, if it ever is properly conceived, is undoubtedly going to die on the table of the first committee meeting.

    4. Re:Dead by sexconker · · Score: 1

      No, that's the bullshit line they use for cameras. The best note taking device is paper and pen/pencil. A runner up is a real keyboard. Behind that is dictation you later transcribe (or have someone else transcribe). You also have your digits and your asshole with you all the time. Why isn't sticking your finger up there then smearing shit on your forearm the best note taking device? (Hint: It's not because poop smells, it's because the usability and the end result is awful.)

      As far as handwriting recognition goes, old blackberry devices, older tablets, the fucking Nintendo DS, etc. had it down great. It's not the device, it's the clowns making shitty software and trying to reinvent the wheel as an afterthought to MOBILE FIRST fluff and AGILE DEVOPS wankery.

    5. Re:Dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my brain let out a sigh

      Your brain makes noises, eh? You, alone, have the most special brain of any human anywhere on Earth... You're a wanker..

    6. Re:Dead by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      Doesn't that depend on the kind of notes you're taking? I'm an Evernote user and I can already tell you that text notes are a minority of the notes that I take.

      What's in my notebooks? One has a large number of what are effectively bookmarks. If I see a device I want to buy on a webpage I clip that page and put it in one of my Evernote notebooks. If I see a book referenced in an article I look up that book and clip the page from Amazon or B&N in a notebook of books I might want to by. My granddaughter sends me a picture of her basketball schedule (via messenger, of course) and I throw the picture in a notebook I keep for schedules.

      I do have text notes. One is my not a bucket list. Another is a list of all of the states and countries I've visited. I've a list of all of the Dr. Who DVD's I own (So I can pick up ones I'm missing if I see then at a store which still carries DVDs) I don't make those lists on a mobile device. I make them on a computer, but read them on mobile device. I use to keep a shopping list too, but Google's shopping list has been superseding that since I can have my assistant add things to the list and then ask "her" to read me the list when I get to the store.

      From my point of view for finding and reading notes mobile is the most important interface (though the PC has to be good too). For creating notes a link in my browser that easily lets me clip pages to Evernote is vital as well as the ability to easily send pictures, pages and such to Evernote from mobile. I need to be able to search and read on PC too, because from time to time I want to be able to clean out my old notes and reorganize things.

  5. That's what happens by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's what happens when you only fix the p1 and p2 bugs and let the other ones sit in your bug tracker forever. Eventually the "little annoyances" grow up and are overwhelming.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:That's what happens by Krishnoid · · Score: 2

      90% of the bugs are the p1 and p2 bugs and are budgeted to take 90% of the time. The other 10% of the bugs are the little annoyances, and basic math describes how long that ends up taking.

    2. Re:That's what happens by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      90% of the bugs are the p1 and p2 bugs and are budgeted to take 90% of the time.

      Then you suck at programming? I don't know what you are doing wrong that causes you to spend all your time fixing bugs. Improve your skill, take a class, do something, but don't keep writing such crappy code.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:That's what happens by Mr_Silver · · Score: 1

      That's what happens when you only fix the p1 and p2 bugs and let the other ones sit in your bug tracker forever. Eventually the "little annoyances" grow up and are overwhelming.

      Amen. This is why I insist that once we hit a certain threshold of p3 defects (for a piece of functionality) that we bundle them up and treat them as a single p1.

      It's not perfect by any means, but does mean that we avoid having a tonne of little annoyances lying around.

      --
      Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  6. Finally! I hope they actually do... by azcoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've used Evernote for years as part of my academic research, and I have hovered between paying for it and ditching it altogether. Every time I look into the premium version, it's clear that it's a boatload of money for features I will never use. On top of that, the "UX" gets worse and worse and it becomes less and less of a productive program, for example as they keep hiding the actual notebooks deeper behind buttons and menus. Sometimes, then, I think about jumping ship and switching everything over to OneNote, but it's hard to trust Microsoft with much of anything, and OneNote has lost data for me before.

    --
    Incipiamus, fratres, servire Domino Deo, quia hucusque vix vel parum in nullo profecimus.
    1. Re:Finally! I hope they actually do... by Wraithlyn · · Score: 3, Informative

      When Evernote started charging money to run the native app on more than 2 devices, I immediately switched to SimpleNote and have never looked back.

      It lacks the fancy rich-text & media stuff that Evenote has, but for plain text (which is all I want) it's perfect. Uses tags for organizing notes, which I actually prefer over notebooks.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    2. Re:Finally! I hope they actually do... by BlackSwan · · Score: 1

      I eventually switched to OneNote, after I decided not to pay for Evernote's Premium features. I do miss Evernote, but I found OneNote to be adequate for the work I needed to do: not great, but good enough for me. I also started getting concerned about losing my content in Evernote, if the company ever went under, given the lackluster management team that they had in the last few years. I figured Microsoft had a more stable footing.

      Hopefully the company can find its mojo back, and return to their initial decent, simple (free) offerings.

       

    3. Re:Finally! I hope they actually do... by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      Yup... that's when I dumped them as well. I liked to use it on three devices; my cellphone, my tablet and my desktop... all for different uses. And the price for just that one extra device was more than I felt like stomaching... particularly when OneNote and others just work. In fact I've found a preference for OneNote at this point.

      I did play with a few others... SimpleNote looks cool and I hadn't actually tried that one. But there are no shortage of good note taking apps out there.

      It's a shame because I really did like Evernote... but I've long-since migrated away from it.

  7. Re:slashvertisement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Never heard of it.

    Cool story, gramps? On the other hand, the product has hundreds of million of users.

    Slashvertisement...?

    If it was, it's a pretty poor one. Why would an advertisement contain stories about how the company has being doing poorly, laying off people and how the product is buggy and crappy?

  8. Free Software Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Emacs + Org-Mode + Git + VPS

    I can git clone my org-mode repositories (notes, personal wiki, todo lists, contacts, etc.) from my VPS and edit them in a consistent way across Windows, Mac, Linux, and BSD.

    No solution for mobile but I don't do anything but text messaging, emails, and light browsing on my phone.

    Works for me.

    1. Re: Free Software Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your solution is to use 4 separate programs to mimic the functionality of this one program?

      And you wonder why people laugh at FOSS folks.

  9. I too find OneNote flaky... by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    OneNote I used on an iPad and my desktop for a while, for a client.

    However one day, it just started crashing on the iPad, on login. Reinstall - still crash. Wait a month for an update or two, still crashes...

    I gave up at that point. I now use Notes.app for most things, I can have shared lists with my wife very easily, and It syncs well enough between desktop and other devices. It has just enough features...

    I had looked at Evernote and even used it for a time, but it was too bulky for most of what I needed.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  10. Too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I liked EN a lot, but it appeared that the premium account is too expensive for simple thing like sorting notes. I haven't even noticed the bugs. Switched to OneNote and spent the saved money for buying Office 365 available to multiple home users. OneNote is a bit sluggish and not the best UX, but does the job quite well.

  11. Maybe they should listen to the users... by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you check their support forums, people had been begging for a "dark mode" setting literally for most of a decade. Users requested it over and over and over, and even came up with hacky workarounds to approximate it. Evernote would occasionally post some "we take feature requests seriously" platitude. But they refused this most simple request. I'd actually given up for quite a while and was using Sublime Text to take notes. Unfortunately, there's no iPhone app for Sublime to sync to; and I found myself in need of multiple-device solution so I had to go back. Even after Apple themselves finally forced the issue by creating a system-wide dark mode; Evernote dragged their heels for months, continuing to blast that awful bright white rectangle in our faces. Why? Who the hell knows? Some asshat at EN just decided that their personal preference should trump those of their users; eyestrain be damned.

    Plus, they refuse to fix even the most simple bugs. Lately, I've had to fight with the damn thing to keep my plain text notes (With code snippets that get borked by bullshit unicode garbage characters like "smart" quotes, emdashes, and ellipses.) in plain text mode. I'll frequently add to an old note and lo-and-behold; Evernote switches back to "rich" text and Helvetica and "smart" formatting; no matter how many times I try to kill all that crap. Bug reports and support requests? Ignored.

    The stink of it is, for what it is, Evernote is still unfortunately the best solution... hell... the only decent solution, really. But as arrogant and unresponsive as the company is; they're a prime target for some startup to come and do it better. I, for one, will not likely weep a single tear when they fall to their own hubris.

    --
    Imagine all the people...
    1. Re:Maybe they should listen to the users... by RoloDMonkey · · Score: 1

      As a developer, being able to paste notes as plain text is crucial. Losing indentation, and being forced to deal with "smart" quotes is a big pain in the ass. If you agree, please up-vote the relevant issue:

      https://discussion.evernote.co...

      --
      Long live the Speaker Bracelet
      Rolo D. Monkey
  12. Compromises had to be made by Drunkulus · · Score: 3, Funny

    You have to consider the resources required to operate a hipster-compliant infrastructure. Everything has to be in the cloud, everything has to be chopped into microservices and run in Docker (if you don't understand why, this can never be explained to you... just like Minecraft). Evernote cannot simply yum install mysql and be done with it. Listen... our man-bun coiffed lumberjack dressed team arrives at work on electric scooters carrying artisanal farm-to-table kale scones wrapped in unbleached fair trade waxed bakery tissue. Does this sound like the type of group that would do anything practical? Of course not! Therefore we will expend sprint after sprint retrofitting MongoDB to approximate the feature set of Google Sheets. Once that's done maybe we'll boot up our pirated copy of Windows Vista and look at those old bugs.

    1. Re:Compromises had to be made by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      This is the funniest rant I've read in ages.

  13. Evernote is still around? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't even know evernote was still around.

  14. Re:slashvertisement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because hundreds of millions of users for this useless retarded copycat service that mimics notepad.exe are dwindling eventually into millions.. then thousands.. then hundreds.. then dozens.. then none.

    The 'Slashvertisement' element is their CEO vowing to fix his shitty notepad.exe program, so that more idiots actually pay for something that has many many many other free alternatives.

    Did you not notice the company trying to save face and that their user base is pissed that their shitty notepad.exe copycat service is fucking useless? Yeah, we better put out some good press before we get down to dozens, gramps.

  15. Evernote was once unique on OS X by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Just as Evernote began charging for the application, Apple beefed up the stock Notes application with matching features. A lot of Evernote installations got deleted at that point.

    1. Re:Evernote was once unique on OS X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The old Steve Jobs quote would apply here: "That shouldn't be a company, it's a feature!".

  16. Re: creimer has a phat bootay!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck you, you peed in MY butt!!

    - APK

  17. Re: THERE ARE ALWAYS CONSEQUENCES NAZI FAGGOT KEN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nazi faggot troll is a nazi faggot.

  18. Google Docs by WoTG · · Score: 1

    I was a light user of Evernote for years - IIRC, it's what I moved to after leaving my old Palm Pilot. I only used maybe a dozen plain text files. Eventually I started using Google Docs for larger documents that were shared and all that, and it just made sense to consolidate away from Evernote. Plus, I think they tried to start charging?

  19. Re:slashvertisement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gramps? More likely a kid, Evernote isn't exactly the newest software in the world.

    Last time I used it, it had a UI right out of 1995.

  20. WAIT.... WAIT.... WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear new CEO

    I think of something interesting and want to write it down.

    I whip out the "supercomputer in my pocket" (smartphone) and tap your app.

    A blank screen is displayed for four seconds. A "busy indicator" is displayed for a further second, and then a view of the app, which finally becomes usable after another second or so.

    *** It's a notepad app, running on a supercomputer. ***

    WHAT IS IT DOING FOR THOSE SIX SECONDS? WHAT EDUCATIONALLY-CHALLENGED CODERS ARE YOU EMPLOYING?

    I've just turned 50 years old; I can easily forget something I briefly thought about six seconds ago.

    (But I still remember how to design software, if you need a hand.)

  21. today I'm glad they scared me away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was a Premium user on various devices and platforms. When they announced to change their privacy policy, I realized they had no clue how important and sensitive our data were. They disqualified themselves to be trusted - people wrote down their business ideas, plots of the next bestseller etc. in their notes. I went on to search for a self hosted solution and I am glad I did. I have been happily using Nextcloud on various devices and platforms. While I took care of my precious data, I also removed them from Google, Apple, Microsoft/OneDrive, Dropbox, Box. Since then, I have been keeping my address book, calendar, files, notes, fotos, music, everything in a Nextcloud instance. I moved the data of my family as well. We also use the XMPP chat feature built-in.

  22. Some are just more equal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny little tidbit:

    Note how the summary says they "*cut* 15 percent of their staff" but then "*lost* many top executives".

    Of course, cutting some rabble is easy, but what really hurts is losing those other guys who helped making the past year such a success. Oh wait?

  23. âoesync doesn't always work rightâ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The understatement of the new yearâ"as evidenced by the rediculous amount of duplicate and triplicate notes in my Evernote